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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: TrashMan on October 01, 2005, 11:44:40 am

Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: TrashMan on October 01, 2005, 11:44:40 am
I figured it needed a facelift :D

(http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/5417/screen00927yv.th.jpg) (http://img44.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen00927yv.jpg)

At Hades Combine as usual...

EDIT: This hulk comes with several glowmaps - normally they are not needed. The ship is allso armed somewhat, but removing the turret entry from the tbl should take care of that (or setting it to play dead)..
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: Galemp on October 01, 2005, 02:31:49 pm
Trashman, please. Take better screenshots. Nobody here can make out what that's supposed to be. I've increased the gamma for everyone's benefit.

But I have to say it only looks like you've booleaned a (geometrically perfect) cylinder out of a modified Orion, and mangled the antenna a bit. Nico's job was much more in-depth on the details.

(http://web.njit.edu/~pjo3/legion.jpg)
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: Roanoke on October 01, 2005, 03:20:48 pm
I reckon the best bit on Nico's was the textures
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: StratComm on October 01, 2005, 03:37:04 pm
The hole was better as well.  I'd like to see a non-gamma-corrected screenshot (i.e. one with the correct textures) before passing total judgement, but thus far I'm unimpressed.
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: TrashMan on October 01, 2005, 04:20:30 pm
Erm..
I am using Nico's textures and the hole isn't a perfect cylinder.. it's somewhat twisted and all...

I'll see if I can make a better screenshot...
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: Depth_Charge on October 01, 2005, 04:22:10 pm
now one question, is that the same ship from the intro cutscene of the main campaign??  (since its has that big hole?)
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: Goober5000 on October 01, 2005, 04:37:34 pm
It's the same ship.

IMO the problem with both Nico's and TrashMan's ships is that they have the hole too big and in the wrong place.  Look at the intro cutscene... the hole is only a little bigger than the beam, and it runs from the end of the runway through to the other side at about a 45 degree angle.
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: TrashMan on October 01, 2005, 04:46:45 pm
(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/7359/orionhulk1ji.th.jpg) (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orionhulk1ji.jpg)
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: Depth_Charge on October 01, 2005, 05:15:54 pm
hmmmm. i figure only two orion's were in deneb adn one was destroyed?? didn't know if there was a third.....
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: aldo_14 on October 01, 2005, 05:22:16 pm
Needs girders.

 Oh, and custom damage textures; the colossus ones used inside are pretty incongrous IMO, because they're clearly not the exposed innards of a ship.  I'd suggest using a grayscaled damage texture if you really can't be arsed making anything custom.

I personally couldn't give a monkeys about the position of the hole.  After all, it's not as if the FS2 intro is 100% correct in everything else.....

Actually, what we really need IMO in new terran, shivan, etc debris for the fields.

EDIT; just dug up some ref piccies.  Mostly of use for the girders; you could do some good stuff with simple flat planes and alpha mapping for them.  I've tried to clean them up best I can.

(http://www.sectorgame.com/aldo/aw/legion1.jpg)
(http://www.sectorgame.com/aldo/aw/legion2.jpg)
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: Hudson on October 01, 2005, 05:28:24 pm
Id like to see Galemps orion with a hole put through the side correctly as Goober described.
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: TrashMan on October 01, 2005, 06:09:06 pm
you know, I could put in a few simple addtions with alpha chanell to make hte hole look more like a ...well..hole...
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: TrashMan on October 01, 2005, 06:11:06 pm
Hm... hole positioning..Since I'm at it I can make a new and smaller hole as well..
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: Roanoke on October 03, 2005, 09:59:51 am
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
Needs girders.

 Oh, and custom damage textures; the colossus ones used inside are pretty incongrous IMO, because they're clearly not the exposed innards of a ship.  I'd suggest using a grayscaled damage texture if you really can't be arsed making anything custom.


My thoughts too. Hell, some stretched boxs with girder textures would be better than nothing
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: aldo_14 on October 03, 2005, 11:45:43 am
At some point I may make some proper 'damaged interior' textures, because I'm not really happy with the look of the damage tile on large ships (plus I want to avoid using Volition maps altogther nowadays); I still have to do debris for the Damocles plus...er....a very cool thing that's not original nor and HTL-isation but is still going to look **** hot if done right.

If anyone has decent piccies of something like, say, the Bismark, that might help as a basis I think.

Incidentally, from the FS2 intro it appears the hole uses the same map as the exterior hull (the dark blue one); of course, they have the advantage of being able to pick and choose their lighting and overlaying that girder stuff.
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: Admiral Nelson on October 03, 2005, 02:08:49 pm
There's a small image of the inside of the wreck diorama of YAMATO here (http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Battleships/1941_Yamato_class/Wreck/_Yamato_wreck_01.html)
If that is of any use to you....
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: aldo_14 on October 03, 2005, 03:33:34 pm
It's not high enough resolution or clear enough, natch.  to be honest, I'm not sure it's even physically possible to get a good ref picture; you'd need it uncorroded and unblocked by water.
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: TrashMan on October 03, 2005, 03:36:50 pm
I take it you wanted something more like this Aldo?
(http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/8503/screen00965pc.th.jpg) (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen00965pc.jpg)
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: StratComm on October 03, 2005, 03:43:44 pm
Imageshack is teh slow.  :no:  That's what I was on about the other day too, it's painful to wait for the link to load.

As much as I still fear that pic is too dark (if you've got any ambient factor set, please remove it before taking any more model show-off pics from inside Freespace.) my biggest concern is that the hole is still too round.  Don't stick too closely to "canon" on that detail, make the thickness of the opening vary pretty widely to indicate that the ship is at least made of regions of differing density.  Actually, look closely at the refs; you'll see that there's actually a much larger opening where the hull plating tore off earlier in the cutscene than there is opening through the center of the ship (which also is nothing resembling round).  At a minimum, you should shoot for that level of quality.
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: TrashMan on October 03, 2005, 04:37:39 pm
Oh please..if you so want the hole to be PERFECTLY in aligment with the one in the cutscene make your own ship.

I allready wasted to much time on this one - I moved some vertex around to make the metal plates appear twisted at the back, changed hte texres and added normal twisted steel rods as well as lots of griders.
I'm trough with it.

EDIT - download at Hades Combine was updated.
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: Sheepy on October 03, 2005, 06:22:07 pm
Looking at it, its not all that rounded, my only opinion is it could do with a few more girnder (possibly bending into the cavity) and better interior/slag textures, which is no fault of your own 'cause your no texture artist.
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: StratComm on October 03, 2005, 08:05:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
Oh please..if you so want the hole to be PERFECTLY in aligment with the one in the cutscene make your own ship.

I allready wasted to much time on this one - I moved some vertex around to make the metal plates appear twisted at the back, changed hte texres and added normal twisted steel rods as well as lots of griders.
I'm trough with it.

EDIT - download at Hades Combine was updated.


I didn't say it had to be perfect, I'm just saying you should use the cutscene as a baseline.  Right now it looks like something cored the ship (think about how one would core an apple) and just left a nice, neat hole in its place.  Yeah, there's a little twist to it, but the overall shape is still circular.  I'm just trying to point out that it'd be possible to make this look really good instead of only half-done, because the roundness of that hole breaks any suspension of disbelief I'd have with the model.

Of course, you've said you're through with it and that's fine.  I guess it's up to me now to take Galemp's Orion and start cutting it up to get the results I'd like to see :)
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: WMCoolmon on October 03, 2005, 08:13:33 pm
A beam (Without any secondary explosions) would probably leave a pretty clean cut. It vibrates a little, but is otherwise totally cylindrical.
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: StratComm on October 03, 2005, 08:17:36 pm
It would've have had to cauderize the inside of the ship though to look like that, with the ship being filled with jelly.  There's a rigid structure lining the hole, which doesn't make any sense.  Plus, the clean hole ignores the explosive decompression (or just plain explosion) that the intro video shows quite cleanly.
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: TrashMan on October 04, 2005, 06:32:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sheepy
Looking at it, its not all that rounded, my only opinion is it could do with a few more girnder (possibly bending into the cavity) and better interior/slag textures, which is no fault of your own 'cause your no texture artist.


Actually I made a new texture for that interior part, only to accidentaly overwrite it with another one a bit later.

I went ballistic when that happened....
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: aldo_14 on October 04, 2005, 06:58:26 am
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
I take it you wanted something more like this Aldo?
(http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/8503/screen00965pc.th.jpg) (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen00965pc.jpg)


Bit dark (at least on the crappy screen I'm using justnow), but looks much better, yeah.  

I think Strat may have a point in terms of how round it is; you could add a bit of slice-and-extrude into the middle to make it look rougher, IMO.  

WCM: The cutscene does show a lot of remaining internal girders, and, more relevantly, a big ridge in the internals; it's a big mess, not a clean cut.  If you look specifically at the bit where it tracks out of the hole, you can see it's by no means a clean cut; there's no reason to assume that the beam had the same amount of cutting/destructive power as it passed through the ship IMO.
Title: Orion hulk (GTD Legion)
Post by: StratComm on October 04, 2005, 04:08:25 pm
Or, as I was trying to indicate earlier, that different parts of the ship reacted the same way to the beam.  The cutscene makes it obvious to me that the beam took a while to punch through the main armor belt, but once it did the insides went up really quickly and their explosion ripped big chunks out of the ship.