Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: FireCrack on October 03, 2005, 08:43:51 pm
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/FireCrack/1.gif)
note, work is definitley in progress and probably quite slow.
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Great stuff! :)
I always wondered if those large gun barrels were meant to be triangular, or if Volition were just trying to save polys....
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What program is that?
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That's maya, but i used the vector art renderer for that shot.
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May I ask why it's an Ursa cut in half or nearly in half?
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likly because the other portions are not there yet
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^what he said
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Would you be able to make one with the gun barrel as a separate submode, so it could be made to rotate as a gattling gun?
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Engines and cockpit look good, hull needs more work, the gun's controversial. I suggest a poll.
Before you go any further, though, make sure you CAN export from Maya into a COB, 3DS, or other format we can convert from.
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Ohhh, I get it now, *bangs head into computer desk over and over.;)
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Originally posted by Galemp
Engines and cockpit look good,
thanks hull needs more work,
yup the gun's controversial. I suggest a poll.
hwo so, sure why not[/quote]
Before you go any further, though, make sure you CAN export from Maya into a COB, 3DS, or other format we can convert from. [/quote]
It's convertable
[/B]
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All right; the flying brick gets prettied up! :D
About the gun: I always thought that they should have been round, since triangular openings didn't make much sense for round projectiles, and just about every other instance of gun emplacements in FS1/2 suggests round barrels. (The Orion is a notable exception, but I believe that can just be written up as the desire to save some polies.) I just checked the FS1 Endgame cutscene, and while the barrels in that are triangular, the model does look decidedly low-poly, so take that as you will. I really don't have a huge preference either way; the model seems like it will look great no matter how the barrels are done. I think a poll would definitely be a good idea, just to see what everyone thinks. Thanks for taking this ship on; I always had a soft spot for the thing. :)
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Barrels should be round - check the texs. They're designed to have a smooth, gradiented shine.
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Hmm.. the guns probably were supposed to be round, seeing every other terran fighter has round guns, but the ursa always had somthing that struck me about them being triangular...
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well I think the most important question here is; does FireCrack think they should have been round? if you disagree with his assessment just wait for him to get done and remodel them (assumeing he doesn't have a problem with that)
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I kinda think they look good as triangles, but i guess i can try a round version and see how that looks...
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Have you thought of making the gun barrels hexagonal? Not a regular hexagon but more like a triangle with 'flattened' corners.
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Just throwing out another idea here, but keeping the guns triangular with circular openings might be an interesting compromise.
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I vote for Mongoose's idea, if anyone cares.
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The triangle shape makes it look "tougher" like it should. It almost looks like the original round barrels were covered in armor plating.
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Originally posted by MicroPsycho
Have you thought of making the gun barrels hexagonal? Not a regular hexagon but more like a triangle with 'flattened' corners.
i was originaly considering that, but it would add some unnescecary polygons, wich is bad :mad:
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:doubt: Hardly. A few extra polies in the right place would do much for the gun barrel debate. Unneccesary polies are when you have a field of tiled polygons on a flat surface, or when a curve is defined with 32 segments where 16 would do.
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Well, my poiint is that if i did that they'd be preety durn small... i could try it i suppose...
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The number of polys you'll use making that round will be only slightly higher than the number you've got invested in the gaps at the end right now (I don't think that's worth making geometry for anyway, leave that in textures) and the panel on the outside. It doesn't have to be more than AT MOST a 12-sided cylinder.
EDIT: And actually, here's a suggestion for a hybrid. It's a little poly-heavy for a gunmount, but that's one of the more prominent features on an ursa so it might be worth considering.
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/suggestion.jpg)
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Interesting, and certainly unconventional, but a bit too bold I think. Maybe have those framing brackets thinner, supporting the round barrel but not dominating it?
Or use the triangle as a base and truncate the edges somewhere between these values.
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Second one from the top, I say.
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yeah, that one is really good, but i think the original one he HTLed is alright too
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I'm really liking StratComm's idea myself :)
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Originally posted by Mongoose
I'm really liking StratComm's idea myself :)
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second from the top
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I like Stratcomm's idea in general, but I feel like it wastes polys in a way that won't get a good return in the final model.
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Make it a detail box subobject ;)
I do agree with you, by the way. It's a huge investment of polys for relatively little return. Roughly 300 tris, not counting the block on the back.
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Someone should talk to me about this whole detail box subobject thing. :D
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Is 300 really that big of a deal, though? What is the acceptable limit for polies on an HTL'ed fighter? It's a rare time when you see more than four Ursas in any mission (the only time I can remember seeing more was in the penultimate mission of Destiny of Peace for FS1, and possibly in the last mission of ST), so would going a little bit overbudget cause that big of a performance hit?
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You miss the point. Its not 300 polys pushing the thing over the limits of the engine. Its burning 300 polys for nothing more than fancying up a gun barrel.
Its like paying $300 for a paper back book when you can pay $20 for a hardback. So you've got $10000 in your wallet, but c'mon, $300 for a paperback book? That's just dumb.
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Unless he used an alpha-mapped texture to make the triangular frame, which would only use... ((9x3)+7)x3+7=109 polies, triangulated with 9-sided gun barrels. It would need an additional texture map, or the modification of an existing one, but it would be worth the effort.
You could even make the triangular frame extend out slightly further than the end of the barrel, and end up with that slotted gap in the end that's on the current textures. :nod:
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Originally posted by mikhael
You miss the point. Its not 300 polys pushing the thing over the limits of the engine. Its burning 300 polys for nothing more than fancying up a gun barrel.
Its like paying $300 for a paper back book when you can pay $20 for a hardback. So you've got $10000 in your wallet, but c'mon, $300 for a paperback book? That's just dumb.
I disagree. As long as it's all on one texture, polies are almost irrelevant with the HTL engine. Given that the Ursa is probably never going to be deployed all that heavily (ie. no more than 4 or 8 in any given mission at any given time) the increased quality is worth it when you're only talking 300 polies or so (out of a 3000 or so poly budget anyway).
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Originally posted by mikhael
You miss the point. Its not 300 polys pushing the thing over the limits of the engine. Its burning 300 polys for nothing more than fancying up a gun barrel.
Its like paying $300 for a paper back book when you can pay $20 for a hardback. So you've got $10000 in your wallet, but c'mon, $300 for a paperback book? That's just dumb.
LOD, LOD, LOD, LOD, LOD, LOD............
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LODs aren't working right now, if you haven't noticed. For some reason FSO is using LOD0 as LOD1 as well and bumping all the other LODs down. This is resulting in major performace hits for me. :(
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Try reducing your detail level, as I think it's directly tied to that.
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Originally posted by StratComm
Try reducing your detail level, as I think it's directly tied to that.
Yes it is. If you have something switch to LOD1 at 1000m, then at the highest detail level, it'll switch at 8000m. at the lowest it'll switch at 125m.
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Man, i knew the ursa was huge, but it's only when you model it that you actualy can appreciate it's size...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/FireCrack/scale.png)
And yes... my scale is good.
And ofcourse updatorz...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/FireCrack/updatorz.png)
I'm still thinking about what to do with he gun barrels, what i haev there isn't final...
And admin/moderator, move this to FSUP
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I think what he's done with the gunbarrels is good: the angular, layered barrels fit with the hull itself. Prominent round barrels would look silly on such an angular ship.
I love the Ursa, and I'm glad it's getting such a cool facelift. :)
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Heh, looks like 8" guns on that thing at least :)
It is looking great! I was wondering if the cockpit was big enough for side by side seating, but I see you went with tandem seating. Cool stuff.
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Now that's an Ursa I'd like to fly :)
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This thread should be
moved!
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*C&C Commando voice* Keep 'em comin'!
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Well, if the forums weren't acting slowly at random, I'd find more.
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Man, i knew the ursa was huge, but it's only when you model it that you actualy can appreciate it's size...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/FireCrack/scale.png)
That's gotta be one of the funniest things I've seen all week. Definitely tempted to put it in the highlight when you finish this sucker. :D
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Looks smashing :)
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Perhaps the barrels would look better with the edges beveled.
Don't forget to point the turret forwards!!
This must have been a bear of a task!! :)
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I'd still like the rounded look personally, but that little dude makes a compelling argument. :p
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Personaly, i think i've decided to keep the guns the way they are, there might be some minorr modifications, but that's it.
Pwesonaly, to me the trianular bit isnt the actual barrel, just a shroud, like some russian smg in WWII had a square shroud around it's round barrel.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/FireCrack/Shiny.png)
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That's great work! Chances of getting it UV'd and skinned by the next vp patch? ;)
Does the rear turret work properly now?
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If you mean by this weekend, i'd need an infinite improbability drive.
Expect it in a few weeks tiem though.
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I like that ...a lot :yes:
Can we get some more renders from different angles, pretty please ?
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That looks so good. I am crying in joy. Ursa finally looks like what it was supposed to be.
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This is what upgrading the Freespace graphics is all about :nod:
Just turn off the reflection of the ship's surface, it looks odd :p
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Yeah, maya turns on reflection automaticly for all blinn shaders, i like shiny stuff so i left it on!
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Mmmmm, can't wait to blow it up. :drevil:
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...then you'l be in for a suprise...
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...then you'l be in for a suprise...
Are Body parts gonna fly out of the destruction!?!? :D
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/FireCrack/Eject.png)
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/FireCrack/ursa1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/FireCrack/ursa2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/FireCrack/ursa3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/FireCrack/ursa4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/FireCrack/ursa5.jpg)
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Haha, I see I have competition :p
Great-looking work. How close is this to release?
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As a bonus, does this mean that the borked turrets will look correct now? Woo! :)
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Oh hell yes ! That's one of the prettiest flying bricks I've ever seen. :yes:
What's with the uber-bright nose, some render effect ?
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the textures are... hideous.
other than that, nice model :)
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the uber-bright nose has somthing to do with how i set up the lighting, i have no idea what in paticular, the only fancy effecs are working on the glowmap.
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A winner is you!
The only thing is that the textures look a bit low-res. What are its dimensions?
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no idea, it's the media vp tex.
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hey, when im done with the medusa, i'll do the ursa
its bomber week for Turambar!
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Do the Athena. :nervous:
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Firecrack, try using the FS1 Ursa textures. Like everyone, or almost everyone says: They're loads better, alot clearer and more detail to it.
And it tis fairly very noice!
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Ugh, only problem is i dont have FS1 on hand.
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Do the Athena. :nervous:
ive already had a look at the athena actually, the texture is actually bigger than 1024x1024, and its pretty detailed, but i'll fix up some color issues on that one and get back to you when im done with the ursa, which ive already started on by removing that dumb texture-lighting (bottom is darker than top), time to go in and detail that big flat top panel
wow, ursa's got 2 1024x1024 textures
thats a big bear
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*whispers* Merge the maps
Seriously, now's the best time to do it. Even if you just slap the existing ones side-by-side, there aren't many better oppertunities to re-map the ship with a merged texture.
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Ugh, only problem is i dont have FS1 on hand.
They should be in the mediaVP.
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Sooo... anyone wanna help me with conversion?
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I think I can do it. Send it my way.
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Ahh stratcomm, master of conversions!
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And, done. Get the HTL Ursa here (http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/bomber05.zip). Requires mv_models to run (for glass and cockpit textures). New merged map included. All credits to Firecrack for this one; all I did was convert and fix the alignment of a few minor things.
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/screen0262.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/screen0263.jpg)
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nice. Wanna do the rest of the horus? :p
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Sure, why not ;)
Max 6 compatible please, or something intermediate.
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Thank you pofressor stratcom!
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The ugly thing looks better than ever. :D :yes:
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eeeew teal burners
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I know, I haven't customized that aspect of my install yet. They should be orange.
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Sure, why not ;)
Max 6 compatible please, or something intermediate.
oh, no can do on that... and a 3ds file tends to make the riges collapse upon vertex weld........... but you can try anyway if you wish
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I seriously doubt you've got features smaller than a centimeter. I'll take a look.
EDIT: Ah, the power of scaling. I've got it, welded up without much trouble. Anything in particular that needs special attention?
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ohhhhh snap! that thing is pimpin', dawg! ;)
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Hot, hot, hot....
That thing is awesome, though there is one little detail that bugs me:
That small, rear-firing (I believe) turret fires to the front, not rear...
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Good work. That's good model! :yes:
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Sexyness :yes:
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I know, I haven't customized that aspect of my install yet. They should be orange.
Wait, you can change those? Oh god, please tell me how.
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i'll throw a pack together if someone'll host it
it'll also be the 3rd time ive done that, i just cant find the other ones
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I've heard enough complaints about the green textures (now and in the past) that I'd be willing to try out different ones for the mediaVPs.
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Speaking of which, the media VPs also need a species.tbl to restore the thruster trails (if the art's still in). As for the thrusters, a simple color shift should be adequate as the graphics themselves are still quite nice.
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yeah, terran afterburtn should bea a firey orange, like in retail.
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Speaking of which, the media VPs also need a species.tbl to restore the thruster trails (if the art's still in). As for the thrusters, a simple color shift should be adequate as the graphics themselves are still quite nice.
You mean "species_defs.tbl", right?
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Yeah, whatever it's called this week. The one that contains the defaults for things like the thrusterglows.
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EDIT: Ah, the power of scaling. I've got it, welded up without much trouble. Anything in particular that needs special attention?
Just a cocpit of some sort... I struggled with that. Zods are tough.
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Excellent job on the Ursa.
I do not know if this has been pointed out, but switching between OpenGL mode and D3D changes the texture of the Ursa. While in OpenGL mode, the texture is low resolution and I believe is the same texture that can be found in the media vps that was described earlier in this thread. D3D mode has the better looking texture. Is there a reason why the modes switch out the textures? Could it be because the files have not been placed within the 3.6.8 vps yet? Thanks.
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Well, if it's using the defualt texture in openGL the UV mapping should be totaly incorrect because i remapped it to one big texture.
I havent seen this happening though.
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Are you referring to the low res texture to be the default texture? Would you like me to provide pictures of the different textured Ursas that I am getting, because everything looks fine to me, other than one texture is clearer and more detailed than the other.
OpenGL
(http://webspace.utexas.edu/maa945/www/screen0063.jpg)
D3D
(https://webspace.utexas.edu/maa945/www/screen0064.jpg)
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They are both definitley using the texture i supplied in those shots, though it does look worse in OGL
Do you have mip-mapping on?
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At the time I took both screenshots, yes. I tried to enable and disable that to see if I would get better results with the OpenGL Ursa, but it didn't solve the problem. Do you know what could be the cause of these variations?
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No idea, no idea at all.
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check the individual mipmap and texture quality settings for OGL and D3D in your graphics card control panel, perhaps somewhere theyre set differently
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I have had problems with model textures looking worse on OGL or D3D before, due to the custom settings I provided to the card outside FSO.
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Which were?
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Part of the problem with those screenshots is the lighting difference. That's not the only difference of course, they can just do things differently period. And the OGL code doesn't do all of the same things that the D3D code does (most that's a good thing). I would like to figure out why in the hell that AA doesn't work properly though since that's been bothering me for some time. Currently just pushing the anisotropic filter up for OGL can improve quality a bit, as can using trilinear filtering. I'm not really sure what D3D uses as a default anistropic filter setting but OGL has it off by default.
Also, OGL doesn't change the lod bias for mipmaps like D3D does so in the same view of the same ship you could be looking at a different mipmap level. Playing with the lod bias can be sorta neat with certain effects, but D3D appears to use it more to artificially improve texture detail. It's not really providing more detail to the map but just allows it to use a higher res map than it really needs to. It looks good, but can hurt rendering speed a bit. That's why I haven't put the same thing in the OGL code. Also realize that the "3D Hardware Textures" detail slider in the game affects OGL differently than D3D at the moment. In OGL it changes what the max mipmap level that can be used is (if an image has mipmaps), or if there are no mipmap levels it can resize the image to be a little smaller. In D3D I'm not even sure if it does anything, and if it does it's not as complete as what the OGL code does so you may get lower detail textures in OGL because the detail slider actually works there.
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I can make my Ursa look either grainy like your first (OGL) pic or smooth like your second (D3D) pic by only using openGL and fiddling with my driver-level settings to globally force or deny Anti aliasing and antistropic filtering. My best guess is that somewhere you have a setting, maybe in your display adapter setup,forcing either Direct3D to always use high quality rendering, or a setting OpenGL to never use it.
I've never noticed a problem with AA other than that my graphics card can't produce an acceptable FS framerate while doing it, but I expect that with my hardware.
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When I first posted on this thread, I was confused to why the Ursa was one of the few ships that tend to look fuzzy in OGL mode. The new Lucifer, as well as the Triton's cargo container had similar texture issues. After reading everyone's replies, I checked to make sure if I had any custom settings for OGL and D3D mode, but they were both at their default settings. 3D Hardware textures was also set at its maximum. So I experimented with the settings, and I discovered that increasing the quality settings of D3D enhances the quality in OGL mode. So everything looks fine now in OGL. But I wonder why only the Ursa, the Lucifer, and the TC-Tri were affected in the first place and not any other ship (wondering about the whole "D3D enhancing OGL", too, though there must be a good reason). Anyways, thanks for the help.
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Large maps. The ships you are describing all have maps with at least one side 2048 pixels long, and downscaling them may be causing odd behavior.
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I could tell that the Ursa had a big cockpit area, but did the HTL version really need a vasudan soup kitchen? I think it's slave labor and a GTVA conspiracy.
(http://www.u.arizona.edu/~bfobar/images/UrsaCabin.jpg)
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:wakka:
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Okay, now I NEED to update the model!
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Okay, now I NEED to update the model!
hi,
?! why, thats funny.
i think its a good easteregg.
a long patrol, they need a loot of coffee *g* and anybody who tell a story to sleep well :D.
Mehrpack
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Seeing that I realize the Ursa could be a lot like the B-2, it could have a toilet behind the 2 seater cockpit... but don't add that in!
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I had a horrible feeling that no one would catch my photoshop. :pimp:
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Of course we did. But it's funny enough to warrent treating as real :p
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no I mean no one posted in the thread for like a week. I thought I failed to bring the funny. Whew!
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The funny was delivered, it just didn't need any further commenting ;)
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Knowing full well that it's a photoshop, is there any chance it'll make it into the model? I mean, something has to fill that space.
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That space is closed off right now. The photoshopping doesn't make that very clear. Presumably it's for instrument panels and whatnot and regardless it really isn't worth the extra texture or geometry for something that would quite literally never be seen.
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Sooo..... how close to a release is this?
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It's in the Media VPs :nervous:
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w00t! :D
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It's in the Media VPs :nervous:
So... I'll have to re-download the models.vp....
...
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DOLT! :hopping:
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So... I'll have to re-download the models.vp....
...
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DOLT! :hopping:
How's about reading the thread ? (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,35577.msg774776.html#msg774776)