Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: ZmaN on October 05, 2005, 07:27:50 pm
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is it illegal, BY LAW, to use someone else's network if it just pops up in windows XP wireless network manager... The thought of it struck me the other day.....
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Grey area. If you have a HAM radio liscense, you have permission to operate at 2.4GHz (I think) that wireless uses. But the case *can* be made that you aren't operating entirely on the air since you do have to go through their router.
Basically, if you have a HAM license, it all depends on how good of a lawyer you get.
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if someone leaves an unsecure wireless network open, use it
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Yeah, use it to download kiddie porn from FBI servers.
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Leave a message on their hard drive telling them that they have an unsecured wireless router.
They could do an iptrace, but I doubt it'd help them much. :p
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I leech off my neighbor's internet connection when mine goes down (happening way too often these days, comcast = POS). I can get a pretty good signal from my room and it works well as a backup. :D It seems that most people in the neighborhood don't encrypt their network; I can detect around five networks in the area from my house.
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There've been some arrests made related to wireless leeching, but I'm not sure what the court decisions have been in those cases.
Here's a fairly recent one: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/06/0217252&tid=193&tid=17
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Might be an interesting project to map Bristol's unsecured wireless networks. All I need is a PDA and a GPS...
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I think you'd have to be even more careful in the UK though. Many people use BB with a download limit. If they hit the limit they could have a pretty strong case against you for theft.
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Ah, so this is where I meant to post this:
Police say Benjamin Smith III, 41, used his Acer brand laptop to hack into Dinon's wireless Internet network.
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The problem, security experts say, is many people do not take the time or are unsure how to secure their wireless access from intruders. Dinon knew what to do. "But I never did it because my neighbors are older."
:wtfh: That's really not 'hacking'.
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Under the law it is. In Geekdom, you're right it's a ****ing joke.
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Not even in geekdom. It requires roughly the same level of computer literacy as using e-mail does.
Calling it 'hacking' screams 'propaganda' to me. Windows XP is designed to make it incredibly easy to connect to wireless networks.
It's roughly the same as if someone has a box of tissues, and you take one without asking. Technically it's theft, but it's silly to call it that.
Is it just me, or is everyone getting *****y and insecure about the internet?
It seems to me this wouldn't be so big of a deal if there were less things that were such serious offenses. :wtf: I mean, what with the FBI cracking down on 'deviant' porn, it's just another offense someone could be accused of b/c someone did it with their internet.
And in the end, I can't help but feel like this fellow sort of deserved it. Apparently he didn't take the ten minutes to secure it because he assumed that since all his neighbors were old, noone would try and access his wireless connection. :wtf: Is it just me or does that sound suspiciously like age discrimination?
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I used to get free internet when I was down in London from some unsecured wireless network. Near the Holiday Inn Old Street.
Was a bit flaky, admittedly, but it meant I could get footie commentary off the bbc/clyde website :D
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What I've heard is if it is not labeled for public use or something to that effect, accessing a private AP is a felony in the USA. I have only heard about this though so I may be incorrect about it. Its almost like a response to the people with dark hearts and leech off of other people. Sure, it's thier fault for not securing thier network but it's just not a good idea snooping into something that isnt yours.
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Hacking a private access point is illegal, as it's explicitly unauthorized access. Hooking up to one that's just not secured is a lot less clearly defined, and quite possibly unintentional, especially in densely-populated areas where it's possible to connect to a neighbor's AP while thinking that it's actually your own.
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Exactly. In fact, XP's default behavior is that it automatically chooses a connection out of the ones available without prompting you about anything if none of the preferred ones have been detected. The detected connections aren't necessarily prioritized according to signal strength, so it frequently connects to the wrong one, and your average person won't even know how to change the preferred connection list in the first place. I have occasionally connected to my neighbor's account without realizing it at first, although it becomes apparent after a few minutes through the huge slowdown in speeds. :p
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I was actually messing with that exact situation at work. One of the professors at the school I was working for was getting really poor connections in her house and needed someone to look at it. (I got chosen to do it for some reason, even though I was a summer student from another school) What had happened was that her neighbor had set up a wifi point next door and neither of them had even changed the SSID from the default (both were Linksys routers) so Windows couldn't even differentiate them. I actually ended up securing the wrong router (unsecuring it was fun :doubt: ) the first time I tried messing with it.
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Isn't it pleasant to think that we live in a country where you could be arrested for that? :) (Assuming you live in the US)
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If someone can't be bothered to learn how to secure their WAP properly, they shouldn't be surprised when someone else makes use of it.
Stealing from someone's limited-download connection is just that: stealing.
Using someone else's WAP is tantamout to walking into someone's house because they left the front door open, but most people are smart enough to not only close the door but lock it as well when they go out.
Using someone's WAP to access an unlimited-download connection is more like walking into an open house to get out the rain, then leaving without taking anything (or even looking around, which would be an invasion of privacy). Maybe not particularly polite, though, and crying 'no harm no foul' doesn't work with the law.
Given the number of ISPs out there that offer unlimited downloads per month at high speed for a low price, I can't imagine why anyone would even consider a limited connection. On an unlimited connection, what does it matter if someone else uses it?
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Well it does mean that you get a slower connection. Especially if they start using P2P applications like eDonkey or BitTorrent.
I've never been one of those who blames the victim. Many people don't know how to secure a wireless connection. Often that's simply due to the fact that no one ever told them that they should.
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Maybe they should try reading the manual?
And if the manual doesn't explain why and how to secure it, blame falls upon the writer of the manual, or more likely the committee tasked with deciding what should be put in said manual.
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Honestly, who reads manuals?
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People who don't otherwise know how to do things? (The non-technically savy)
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Originally posted by delta_7890
Honestly, who reads manuals?
People who don't want to break stuff by fannying about randomly?
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Yeah but you've got to admit that is precious few of the non technical amogst us.
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And I'd hope that everyone here knows the value of securing a personal wireless AP as well. ;)
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If you don't know how to secure your wireless network, you should be a) using a wired network or b) prepared to accept the risks of incoming foreign connections.
Anything else just pisses on the idea of publicly accessible hotspots, since you'd never know if you were intruding on someone's private network or not.
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To me, if a network is completely open, and XP automagicly connects to it, it is a free, open hotspot, inviting users. If it asks for a password, or needs other info or something, I won't start trying standard stuff like proxies or setting your own DNS, unless the hotspot owner told me I could try.
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yea definitly.... if its left open, who cares!?!? its not like ANYONE uses limited connections around here, it doesnt cost them any money if someone else uses it... kinda like goin into 7-11, lookin at some magazines and candy bars, and then leaving, with nothing in your pockets except for what u came in with.... stupid to be arrested for that reason, i mean u didnt steal, it doesnt cost anyone extra money..... and put it this way, if it did cost extra money, then it would cost you about, hmm maybe half a dollar, for the electricity to route the connection over a longer distance...