Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bobboau on October 08, 2005, 10:56:39 pm
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ok, I need to write a paper on how the US is potraied around the world, I need a story that displays the greatest diversity of positions posable. at first glance something like Abu Grahb would seem ideal, but there realy isn't much diversity to the views on that. so, any ideas?
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I would take something less...loaded. But still controversial. Like maybe the invasion of Iraq and/or Afghanistan, or the War on Terror in general. If you're looking for public approval ratings for the war(s), that would be relatively simple to get (I think).
When you decide, I could scrounge up some Serbian articles if you like. Also, there is a now defunct blog ("weblog.ro/soj") that posted a ton of daily articles from papers around the world...it might be useful to look through their archives.
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http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html
A fairly good article on why everybody hates the US so much.
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That's a good site Kosh.
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Did anyone else read the title as "I need some help for a homeworld assignment"??? :nervous:
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Yeah, that was pretty funny. :lol:
We all know that Bob can't spell :p :nervous:
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I think it would be that hard to figure out why. Good and bad reason i might add.
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well it would be better if I could find a stoy were different views were put out, I don't need fifty articles showing why everyone hates us. I need different views not all the same views. hell if there was something were the same story potrayed us as bad for diferent reasons (ie european story were the US is greedy, a chineese version were the US is trying to take over the world, a brazilian version were the US is appethetic) I need a story that in (at least) six diferent reagons the US is described in the media there diferently.
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Most people do have the same view, that's the point.
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Originally posted by Deepblue
Did anyone else read the title as "I need some help for a homeworld assignment"??? :nervous:
... heh, well the... 'd' and 'k' buttons are.. just so close.. realy, it's not like there on completly opposite ends of the board or anything...
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Originally posted by Kosh
Most people do have the same view, that's the point.
well they may have diferent reasons for comeing to that same view... I need examples that show that.
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Not really. Everyone thinks you're the evil of the world for all of the same reasons, coming to the exact same conclusion.
If you had a colony you brainwashed through AOL Time Warner like you brainwash your own, you could probably present their view of the US to be idillic in contrast to everyone else hating your government.
I think the biggest stretch of a "different" opinion you can pull, is that while everyone else heavily dislikes you and wants nothing to do with you, the few people you wronged personally want you dead in the most literal sense of the world, which'd be the Muslim world.
So you have different opinions.....sort of. One to the extreme, the other just on the normal level.
Note: I assume they portray you the same everywhere, because I live in Sweden, Sweden is usually mostly neutral, and oh boy do they hate you. They hate you real good. I think they have a mandatory documentary once a week on the national channel about how America is either
a) Corrupt
b) Evil
c) Comparisons to Hitler
d) You get the picture...
Actually, one of my high-school subjects I passed, was based on an intricate essay I made about how your government sucks ass. Got the highest grade, which nobody in my class did.
Must love exploiting the country's view of foreign policy to get myself a good grade. Pwn forever.
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but don't some places focus on particular aspects of our evilness, were greedy, decedent, lazy, violent, prudish, cowardly, deceatful. these diferences show the diferent values of the cultures, you'll never see someone from the mid east calling us prudes, they'd call us flamboant and decadent (or how ever the hell that's spelled), but the french would call us prudes. get what I'm getting at yet, I need something that diferent people view diferently because of there culture.
something that doesn't have as universal of hatred behind it, might be easier to find this stuff, I was thinking maybe coverage of the hurricanes might have what I want, and I need to ask everyone here to find something that was covered diferently based on what culture you are in.
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There is a wide enough cross-section of the world's nations here that everyone could just look up the story in their own countrie's media and link to the article (does it have to be in English by the way?). It would obviously be harder to get impressions on things that happened a few years ago, like the invasion of Aghanistan. Erm...how about a story about the developments in the Iraqi constitution? That's fairly recent, and you're going to have different countries showing it in different lights: a bold step forward to democracy or an unsustainable front by the puppet government.
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This ("http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4320586.stm")?
edit: I remembered that Der Spiegel every so often has a feature where they look at media coverage around the world of a specific story.
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I have a feeling the "unsustainable front by the puppet government" position is going to be overwelming, it's sort of a highly charged issue, so there is more consistancy... BUT, sure, let's go with that and I'll see if there is enough diversity in the stories to be able to do a lengthy paper on.
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You're welcome. ("http://www.lexisnexis.com/news/")
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thank you :)
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I suggest searching for Canadian articles on it, Bob. There's all sorts of complexity in the way the U.S. is viewed here.
Canadians simultaneously think that all the Americans citizens we've meet have been average, typically nice people (if overly zealous in their patriotism), and that American society as a whole is arrogant and ignorant. We hate most of your foreign policy, but we are glad you won the superpower struggle instead of the Soviets. We consider you our closest ally, and we secretly wonder how long it will be until you turn your imperial objectives our way and invade.
There's more to be said, but I'm done writing. You can quote me if you think it'd be of any help.
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well problem is a requierment of the assigment is I use 6 diferent reagons, Canada could be one of them, but I can't focus only there.
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Oh sure, I'm just saying it could be one. :)
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You might want to check the english version of al-jazeera. Despite how it's frequently portrayed in the media here, it really does seem to be fairly well reasoned.
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Originally posted by Kosh
http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html
A fairly good article on why everybody hates the US so much.
I'd count that as a pretty far stretch of the term "good." So many of those points are so utterly ridiculous that they overshadow the points that hold some validity. Even the language the author uses is over-the-top and inflammatory. From what I can understand, Bobboau's looking for balanced sources, not completely one-sided wank-fests.
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if it's the domonent view of the media in a particular reagon, a one-sided wank-fest would be ok for one of my sources. but that's not going to be what my entier project is going to focus on.
this is for a cultural anthropology class, I'm suposed to be makeing judgements/observations about the culture of the reagons I pick based on the media they consume. it is not about the US, it's about the other cultures.
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Originally posted by Mongoose
I'd count that as a pretty far stretch of the term "good." So many of those points are so utterly ridiculous that they overshadow the points that hold some validity. Even the language the author uses is over-the-top and inflammatory. From what I can understand, Bobboau's looking for balanced sources, not completely one-sided wank-fests.
[color=66ff00]Are you sure it's not because you can't recognise exactly how horrific the US' foreign policy is?
The truth hurts and all that...
[/color]
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Originally posted by Mongoose
I'd count that as a pretty far stretch of the term "good." So many of those points are so utterly ridiculous that they overshadow the points that hold some validity. Even the language the author uses is over-the-top and inflammatory. From what I can understand, Bobboau's looking for balanced sources, not completely one-sided wank-fests.
Almost all of it is true by the way. I wouldn't say everything, but it's all pretty much there.
The only problem with it is the context. Generally, every single country in the world commited the exact same, or similar atrocities. So in the grand scheme of things, yeah, you're probably the worst so far, but only because it's been piling up over the years. Other countries have their fair share too.
It's a pretty grim image though. Not of the US itself, but of the entire world. It's amazing what the human race can put on the table.
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Well, I sometimes wonder whether Europe and the UK looked to America as a 'great hope' for the future back in the 70's, they were in space, pushing the word of 'freedom', far from perfectly, but then Europes' History is just as patchy.
I guess I always felt a bit 'let down' by recent American actions, they were supposed to be the country that taught the world that life was more important than control, that learning and personal individuality to believe what you choose so long as you hurt no-one were rights that were to be defended at all levels. For a long time after WWII, Americans had a lot more Freedom than their European counterparts, despite what many Americans believe, the shadow of Facism still loomed over us, creating suspicion and distrust.
I feel dissapointed because, to my mind, America has lowered itself to the same level as the petty Dictators that could barely shake a stick at it, they resorted to violence, intimidation, and leeching from countries they invade. Whilst this has always been going on at a low level with every country, of late in the US it has become a brazen, unashamed exploitation with the flimsiest of excuses, and a terrible cost on both sides. There used to be a belief in China that outside the borders were 'ghosts' and that anyone who wasn't born and raised in China was not human. I certainly see shades of that thinking rising in certain parts of America.
That is why my opinion of America has dropped, I still think it has the potential to lead the world forward, but right now, like a cancer, it has started to eat itself to survive. Look at your national debt for proof. I am worried because if America carries on without massive changes in Foreign and Domestic policies, it WILL collapse, and will probably take 1/3 of the planet's economics with it, what happens after that is anyones guess but it will certainly be Anarchial for a while.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Are you sure it's not because you can't recognise exactly how horrific the US' foreign policy is?
The truth hurts and all that...
[/color]
Um, no. In fact, as soon as I read the "war for oil" line, that's when I started snickering. Much of the rest followed the same vein of tired leftist catch-phrases. I don't mind intelligent criticism, but regurgitated crap doesn't do anything for me. For instance, the author states that bombing runs in Germany/Japan were "terrorist acts." Apparently, he doesn't really understand the concept of war. Or how about points as general as "lack of empathy for foreign suffering"? Da hell? Last time I checked, I have a pretty damn good idea of how badly a lot of people on this planet have it, and that holds true for everyone I know. Most of the other points follow that same pattern. The entire postscript section is just laughable, and the quote about American gun "obsession" is equally so. I don't want to spam up this thread anymore, but I will say that, if that's really the way the rest of the world sees us, you know absolutely nothing about my country. Maybe you can incorporate that sad fact into your assignment, bobboau.
Edit: I'm sorry if I'm driving your thread off-topic, bobboau. If you'd prefer it that I shut up, just say the word. :p
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The whole world knows absolutely nothing about the rest of the world, that much is certainly becoming obvious. Be it America about Europe or Vice-versa. That is more than 90% the fault of multiple biased medias.
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Originally posted by Mongoose
I'd count that as a pretty far stretch of the term "good." So many of those points are so utterly ridiculous that they overshadow the points that hold some validity. Even the language the author uses is over-the-top and inflammatory. From what I can understand, Bobboau's looking for balanced sources, not completely one-sided wank-fests.
Take them as a whole, and then recognise that there are a large amount of people who will agree with one or more.
The essential reason, I think, is arrogance. That's sort of understandable - it comes with the global dominance of being the only superpower. But when the US is pushing its foreign policy upon other nations, then it's really seen as bullying. I don't think, for example, a lot of people in the UK like being seen as Americas lapdog in europe.
I guess... the general stereotype of the US (the country) in the UK is as being brash, loud mouthed, quick acting (but not in a good or fair way), aggressive, bullying, self-centred and now (largely because of Bush himself) somewhat thick. On the Bush subject specifically... I think the general public consensus here is that he's an idiot, and that Cheney and Rumsfeld really run the show. It's a very negative perception, partly due to history, partly due to importation of culture, and currently primarily due to the Iraq war.
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Originally posted by Flipside
The whole world knows absolutely nothing about the rest of the world, that much is certainly becoming obvious. Be it America about Europe or Vice-versa. That is more than 90% the fault of multiple biased medias.
:wtf:
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Originally posted by Mongoose
Um, no.
What about how US supports horrible governments like those of China, Uzbekistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. The only reason the country supports those governments is because it helps the wealthy upper class that runs the government.
Or do you benefit from the US supporting countries that boil people to death (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4315352.stm)?
Bobboau: http://www.asahi.com/english/asianet/column/eng_011109.html
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Originally posted by Flipside
The whole world knows absolutely nothing about the rest of the world, that much is certainly becoming obvious. Be it America about Europe or Vice-versa. That is more than 90% the fault of multiple biased medias.
I think you do have a really good point. I know that, speaking for myself, I really don't know much more of British or general European culture than what I'm exposed to through people here/on a few other forums. (And from that, the thing that always jumps out the most is aldo's frequent use of mind-boggling Scottish slang. :p) I'm sure the same holds true in reverse. Maybe this is a case where something like exchange programs can really do some good. I'm not really a travel person, and I've never had a huge desire to travel to Europe, but I have the feeling that spending some time there would help me understand where a lot of you are coming from; likewise, I think that if you were to spend some time in my environment, the same would hold true.
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Not really.
Just open a history book and an encyclopedia as a starting point.
Also, you seem to be forgetting that some of us actually traversed the European continent, or have actually been to both sides of the Atlantic Ocean.
Having been places myself (all over Europe to be percise), I can tell you for sure that not even 10-20% of your knowledge about another country or continent can be magically gained by just habiting there.
Most of it is from books, and by that, I mean different books, as in multiple resources.
The fact that I despize your government and the way that it's run comes from the experience of reading multiple resources on the subject (yours as well, the internet is a magical thing), and then forming my own opinion. I don't need to LIVE there to obtain information you recieve there.
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Originally posted by BlackDove
:wtf:
It's a lot more profitable, for example, to sell a story about soldiers in Africa raping and killing innocent people than stories about soldiers out there who are actually trying to help, thus we get presented with an image of all the military in Africa being vicious bastards, when, in fact, this may not be (isn't) universally true, but bastards sell more papers than saints.
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Originally posted by Mongoose
I think you do have a really good point. I know that, speaking for myself, I really don't know much more of British or general European culture than what I'm exposed to through people here/on a few other forums. (And from that, the thing that always jumps out the most is aldo's frequent use of mind-boggling Scottish slang. :p) I'm sure the same holds true in reverse. Maybe this is a case where something like exchange programs can really do some good. I'm not really a travel person, and I've never had a huge desire to travel to Europe, but I have the feeling that spending some time there would help me understand where a lot of you are coming from; likewise, I think that if you were to spend some time in my environment, the same would hold true.
I don't know of the europe-rest of world situation (although I guess I should), but from all accounts I've read the (tiny amount of) coverage of the rest of the world in US news is apalling.
I think it was Martin Amis who said "Open a newspaper in America and watch your country disappear". I've not been to the Us recently, although my parents have been and inform me it's still a similar situation; I remember her story explaining to an - incredulous - New York policeman that not only did we not have legal firearms, but we also had very low crime, for example.
Or one time when I was in Florida on holiday, and an American couple - hearing our accents at the hotel - approached us to ask 'don't you really hate the english?'.
Yep, they'd just watched Braveheart.
:sigh:
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To conclude: Hollywood is the problem. Hollywood must go.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
I don't know of the europe-rest of world situation (although I guess I should), but from all accounts I've read the (tiny amount of) coverage of the rest of the world in US news is apalling.
It depends on where you get your news. This statement is very true for newspapers, but some network news channels do an OK job of covering world events. Still, neither is as good as the internet.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Yep, they'd just watched Braveheart.
:sigh:
Hey man, at least you have Braveheart. Consider yourself lucky. My country is judged by others based exlusively on gun-cam footage via CNN and the occasional photos of refugee columns and/or kids playing in the trash and/or war crimes tribunals. Have you ever seen "Behind Enemy Lines"? It makes Braveheart look like a downright scholarly work.
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You live in Bosnia?
:nervous:
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I live in Canada, eh?
I'm from Serbia.
Though the potrayal of Canada isn't much better. We barely have any igloos or dog-sleds anymore, everyone's bought snowmobiles by now. You wouldn't believe the rush hour traffic. Many people even have running water.
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Originally posted by Rictor
I live in Canada, eh?
I'm from Serbia.
Though the potrayal of Canada isn't much better. We barely have any igloos or dog-sleds anymore, everyone's bought snowmobiles by now. You wouldn't believe the rush hour traffic. Many people even have running water.
surely by "running water" you mean a running man with a yoke.
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Behind Enemy Lines was such a great depiction of our country :lol:
I wanted to vomit all over the director tbh.
Oh and, kode knows just as well as I do, that polar bears attack people in the streets here :(
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Originally posted by BlackDove
Oh and, kode knows just as well as I do, that polar bears attack people in the streets here :(
they're more prone to be loud drunkards now, tho.
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Originally posted by Deepblue
It depends on where you get your news. This statement is very true for newspapers, but some network news channels do an OK job of covering world events. Still, neither is as good as the internet.
Is that 'ok' by relative terms, though? Unfortunately this is the sort of thing that's impossible for any of us to check, though, for obvious problems to do with TV receivership :)
I have concluded though, that Fox News is a big steaming jobbie of a 'news' channel. It's truly awful, worse than those European financial news channels that seem to be filmed on someones mobile phone.
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I was talking with one of my coworkers the other day about this. She told me that one of the previous foreign teachers who taught here was surprised that chinese people don't wear the stuff they did in Hero, or do that kind of thing with their hair. He was also surprised that chinese people smile (they don't in the movies), that they laugh, that they make jokes, amoung other things.
Um, no. In fact, as soon as I read the "war for oil" line, that's when I started snickering. Much of the rest followed the same vein of tired leftist catch-phrases
Hide your head in the sand if you want, but that doesn't change the fact that most of that stuff is true.
Apparently, he doesn't really understand the concept of war.
You wouldn't be saying that if it was your cities that were being fire bombed/nuked.
Last time I checked, I have a pretty damn good idea of how badly a lot of people on this planet have it,
Yet you support a foreign policy that, in reality, only makes things worse.
EDIT: And Bob, if you are looking for stuff in the non-US media that says nothing but good things about US policies, you won't find it.