Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: kasperl on October 17, 2005, 08:45:16 am
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Okay, so I just got the urge to meddle with alternative OS's again, preferably somethign *nix. Now, the problem is, I've got two days, at most, need to dual-boot with windows XP home, and my PC needs to work, garantueed, after those two days.
The system in question:
AMD64 3000+
1 GB DDR
Radeon 9800 Pro
80GB HD, heavily partitioned, for OS's and data.
40GB HD for data.
DVDCDRW drive.
Sound and ethernet on board of the mobo, a K8V ASUS. (VIA K8T800 chipset)
The OS should make all of the above components work, read/write FAT, read NTFS, play MP3, browse the web, and have some basic games (solitaire) and office stuff out of the box. Windows networking is needed too. I can handle command line interfaces, and given a proper manual, prefer a CLI option. I can read MAN pages, but prefer either one-line or point-and-click install systems.
I have 5 GB for the new OS available, that includes the swap drive.
Pros for anything new are:
- Easy support for printing.
- A working DC++ client
- Very easy running of windows apps. (Select the exe and double click sounds like my level of complexity)
- Easy-to-install FTP, HTTP, PHP and MySQL servers.
- Good firewall system (As in making all the servers local-only.)
- Easy remote management for the media player.
- CD burning
- DVD playing
Cons:
- DVD as install media
- Download of more then 3 GB or so.
- Slow download
- Requiring networking to install. (My network controller can have driver issues.)
- Requiring to be the first partition on the drive. (Or on the first 4GB for that matter)
- Having a reasonable chance of borking my system. I need the computer to work at all times, with Windows running ok at the very least.
Since there must be plenty of fanboys on this forum, I was hoping for links to stuff that is recommended, or, preferably, a short explanation on why it is recommended.
Any free (as in free beer) OS that'll run on the above components is good, but something *nix is preferred. I heard good things about BSD, any tips on where to start? Linux is nice, but I tried Mandrake, which didn't make me too happy, Red Hat, which I hated, Fedora, which got !!!!ed up after updating once, and Gentoo, which never even installed due to networkcard drivers not being present.
Oh yeah, I tried Knoppix, which I still praise every time I have OS issues and need the data on the drive.
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Don't do it. You lack the hardware. See the "Problem with Linux" thread for why I say so.
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Not to hijack this thread, but can Knoppix read NTFS?
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf
Not to hijack this thread, but can Knoppix read NTFS?
Yes.
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I'm assuming it also supports USB jumpdrives?
*Grey Wolf goes to download a LiveCD in case Windows decides to commit suicide again
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Try KUbuntu (http://www.kubuntu.org/). I think you will be pleasantly surprised. It has great hardware support, easy yet configurable install options, and the ease of use of RedHat/Mandrivia combined with the options and structure of Debian. It also isn't bloated all to hell. This was the distro that finally made me feel confident of the progress of linux.
The reason I said KUbuntu instead of Ubuntu is because I hate gnome, and I think it should burn in hell.
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Hmm, kasperl you have almost the same exact set-up as me.
And what do you mean that he lacks the hardware to run Linux? Shouldn't it be easier on the system resources than the dreaded XP system hog?
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Scuddie, Kubuntu is more buggy compared to Ubuntu. KDE does have issues with disabled root account and with admin tools there's a big chance that the tools won't let you log in with sudo.
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I was actually hoping to try something not-linux this time, but if I do go for a linux distro, I do want something secure. And the last time I tried Linux, I got my MBR so borked I needed to go back to the shop to get the HD (and MBR) zeroed out.
Mikhael: What hardware do I lack? The RAM seems plentifull, and the CPU isn't the slowest one on earth either. I'm not going to run this rig as a full time webserver, the only thing it'll do is run an FTP server on the web so I can get my files from afar, and an HTTP/PHP/MySQL for local testing.
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Linux seems to have a thing for the MBR...
Note that if you're using windows xp, you should be able to use the recovery console to run the command 'fixmbr' to get windows xp going again, in a case like that.
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I know. I couldn't even get to the recovery console.
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Really? Booting from the CD should bypass the MBR completely :wtf:
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I haven't got a full windows CD, only a OEM recovery disk.
But fixing windows is a different game, really. One thing that semi-interests me: Has anyone any experience with Solaris as a desktop system?
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Originally posted by kasperl
Has anyone any experience with Solaris as a desktop system?
No, but apparently you're referring to OpenSolaris (http://www.opensolaris.org/) since you wanted a free OS. Just look at the roadmap, I don't think you would want something as unfinished as OpenSolaris...
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The full Solaris system is a free download according to the website.
http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/
Problem is, that site doesn't have any real clear list of advantages of Solaris as a desktop system.
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Well, Solaris is not a desktop OS, I believe it is purely a server OS. It might have its advantages in workstation environment, but I doubt you will find it suitable for home PC.
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You can use it as a desktop OS i use Solaris 10 on my unix box and also the x86 version on my pc.
It can be used as server and desktop software as they also sell it on there Blade and x64 desktop systems wich can run Solaris, Windows XP 32/64 and other operating systems.
Solaris 10 comes with Staroffice 7 package you can install.
It's a big download though, if you download all the packages 6 iso's then it will be around 2.52GB download.
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Originally posted by kasperl
I haven't got a full windows CD, only a OEM recovery disk.
I've always wondered if legal full WinXP CDs actually exist.
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Originally posted by Darkage
You can use it as a desktop OS i use Solaris 10 on my unix box and also the x86 version on my pc.
It can be used as server and desktop software as they also sell it on there Blade and x64 desktop systems wich can run Solaris, Windows XP 32/64 and other operating systems.
Solaris 10 comes with Staroffice 7 package you can install.
It's a big download though, if you download all the packages 6 iso's then it will be around 2.52GB download.
Know if Solaris supports dual- or multi-boot environment?
There is also a DVD image download, which I'd rather take, just burn the bugger to DVD+RW or DVD-RW.
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Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Know if Solaris supports dual- or multi-boot environment?
There is also a DVD image download, which I'd rather take, just burn the bugger to DVD+RW or DVD-RW.
Solaris it's self doesn't support dual booting i believe, but you can setup windows OS boot menu to let you select between the solaris and windows boot.
Nice Guide to Mulit-Boot Solaris/Windows (http://multiboot.solaris-x86.org/)
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Originally posted by Descenterace
I've always wondered if legal full WinXP CDs actually exist.
I have a legal XP Pro OEM CD. Full OS with the exception of the "upgrade" option on install, as its designed to be sold with new PCs only.
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Originally posted by Darkage
Solaris it's self doesn't support dual booting i believe, but you can setup windows OS boot menu to let you select between the solaris and windows boot.
Nice Guide to Mulit-Boot Solaris/Windows (http://multiboot.solaris-x86.org/)
Thanks, I should remember this when I am considering playing around with some new OS. :)
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Originally posted by Descenterace
I've always wondered if legal full WinXP CDs actually exist.
I have one (at work) although I think a lot of people ended up using a crack because of difficulties validating their copies. In particular absolutely none of the XP Pro CDs seem to have product keys that work, despite me spending the best part of a morning shimmying around the office reading keys of machines.
Except for the one disc which we still have the proper product key ID'd for, which has been installed about 6 times in the month or so i've been here and thus requires going through the bloody MS helpdesk every time.
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Originally posted by Darkage
Solaris it's self doesn't support dual booting i believe, but you can setup windows OS boot menu to let you select between the solaris and windows boot.
Nice Guide to Mulit-Boot Solaris/Windows (http://multiboot.solaris-x86.org/)
gold. thanks, darky.
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Gak, I totally forgot about knoppix when my laptop OS drive took a crap....
*smacks head*
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Originally posted by kasperl
I was actually hoping to try something not-linux this time, but if I do go for a linux distro, I do want something secure. And the last time I tried Linux, I got my MBR so borked I needed to go back to the shop to get the HD (and MBR) zeroed out.
Mikhael: What hardware do I lack? The RAM seems plentifull, and the CPU isn't the slowest one on earth either. I'm not going to run this rig as a full time webserver, the only thing it'll do is run an FTP server on the web so I can get my files from afar, and an HTTP/PHP/MySQL for local testing.
I explained it in the "The Trouble With Linux" thread. You lack the required number of hard drives.
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In the words of one of my housemates: "needs moar disk"
To be honest, Linux is best when you've got one small partition for the base system, one large one for /usr (>80GB), and one fair-sized one for home directories (>20GB).
If you want to run an FTP/Web server, make it a dedicated box and put /home, /usr and base system on the same 8GB partition, then mount dedicated partitions on /www and /ftp.
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more like "Needs more discs". When dual booting, always have THREE drives. Physical drives. One drive for each OS, and one drive for data. Period. Anything less is begging for trouble the like of which WMCoolman discribed.
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While that's no problem for me (I have a large number of spare disks lying around) not everyone has three disks in their machine.
The general rule is, install Windows first, then install Linux. I don't know the particulars of every distro re: handling of the MBR, but Debian has never b0rked WinXP on my systems.
Quite the opposite, in fact...
It's well worth learning how to use the GRUB command line if you don't have seperate disks for each OS. Otherwise you might find yourself unable to get the damn thing working again when you FIXMBR.
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All OS's can be free if you know where to get them. :D
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Originally posted by mikhael
more like "Needs more discs". When dual booting, always have THREE drives. Physical drives. One drive for each OS, and one drive for data. Period. Anything less is begging for trouble the like of which WMCoolman discribed.
After going through one spot of MBR issues, I can see the point there.
I always felt quite safe running WinXP on the same drive as my data, as long as its not the same partition. If I managed to get another fast drive in there (not 5400 RPM), would it be worth the trouble to install BSD, Solaris or Linux?
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If you're going to mix OSes on one physical drive, do like I did.
Partition the drive in three parts (two small ones for your OSes, one for your data). Install FreeBSD to the second partition (the third will be your data drive). Then install Windows to the first partition.
BUT WAIT! Didn't we just overwrite FreeBSDs bootloader?! Yes. We did. On purpose. The next bit gets technical. You need to copy the second stage boot file from your FreeBSD CD as a binary file called 'bootsect.bsd' into your WindowsXP C: drive's root directory. Once you've done that, you edit the Windows boot.ini to give an option to start from bootsect.bsd. Et voila. From then on, you don't have anything to worry about, except large, lost interstellar starships manned by nutzoid robots and talking bombs.
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Talking of BSD, I'm rather interested in PC-BSD-project and planning to try it out once it reaches 1.0 final.
http://www.pcbsd.org/
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Honestly, I wouldn't touch any BSD that wasn't FreeBSD, OpenBSD or NetBSD until they were at least on a second release.
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I might try what you suggested, Mikhael.