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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jetmech Jr. on October 27, 2005, 04:48:32 pm

Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on October 27, 2005, 04:48:32 pm: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7820333450116505275&q=shingo

"WE ARE THE EARTH DEFENDER FRESHMEN!"

:lol:
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Mongoose on October 27, 2005, 06:14:58 pm: Great stuff :lol:

(Hey, don't diss one of my beloved childhood memories! :p)
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Night Hammer on October 27, 2005, 06:16:38 pm: yeah i used to love the originals, i was 7or so but still :p
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Flipside on October 27, 2005, 06:22:17 pm: Power Rangers started airing in the UK on the morning after my 21st Birthday party, I remember, hazily, about 5 of us sitting bleary eyed and open mouthed staring at the telly in stunned disbelief.... :lol:
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: pyro-manic on October 27, 2005, 06:34:16 pm: What. The hell was that? :eek2:
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Nuclear1 on October 27, 2005, 06:53:08 pm: Quote
Originally posted by pyro-manic
What. The hell was that? :eek2:

Seconded... :wtf:

I've always liked the pink one anyway.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on October 27, 2005, 06:56:58 pm: A video. :p
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Depth_Charge on October 27, 2005, 07:02:42 pm: Quote
Originally posted by nuclear1

Seconded... :wtf:

I've always liked the pink one anyway.

aye.......i like the ah what was it, the 3rd season or what ever....but anyways, funny stuff there..........
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: mikhael on October 27, 2005, 08:40:03 pm: I want my own Zarray!

I used to watch Power Rangers when it first came to the US--as a spoof in the mid-eighties. LOOK AT MY SPIFFY WATCH!
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Grey Wolf on October 27, 2005, 08:57:56 pm: You realize this is much more likely to be a spoof of the Sentai shows, right?
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on October 27, 2005, 09:54:17 pm: Probably, but as far as I'm concerned, Power Rangers is the exact same thing. Only difference being one's in Japanese, the other's in English.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Grey Wolf on October 27, 2005, 10:00:20 pm: The Power Rangers has Special Added Retardedness (TM).

That said, I watched the first few seasons as a kid. Up through the Thunder Zords.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Carl on October 27, 2005, 10:04:59 pm: The power rangers owned. and as far as i know, they are still classified in the sentai catagory. Translating and altering plots doesn't un-sentai them.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: IPAndrews on October 28, 2005, 02:51:34 am: Power Rangers makes me laugh. Therefore I like Power Rangers. In small doses. Same goes for other unintentionally funny kiddie crazes like Yu-gi-oh. If anything that's even funnier.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Fury on October 28, 2005, 03:40:46 am: My God that video was hilarious. :lol:
Yeah, even I did watch Power Rangers when I was a kid, dammit. :)
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: kode on October 28, 2005, 05:04:12 am: Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf
You realize this is much more likely to be a spoof of the Sentai shows, right?

power rangers is just the sentai shows with american actors when out of the robots...

I don't like power rangers, but I do love the cheesiness of tokusatsu. this movie was funnay too.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Getter Robo G on October 28, 2005, 07:12:12 am: I only started watching when I heard the rumor that the original Pink ranger went on to do some porn. :D

[EDit] watched the vid, nice work. It was actually funny, *The only thing they could enlarge were their faces*...

You just KNOW he wanted a piece of Pink Fresh...
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Grey Wolf on October 28, 2005, 03:10:04 pm: Not that I can see on the IMDB.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: kode on October 28, 2005, 03:18:14 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf
Not that I can see on the IMDB.

for such information, check iafd. but nothing there either.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Mongoose on October 28, 2005, 06:01:36 pm: I think I've got a lot of people beat as a Power Rangers fan: I remember seeing the original movie. In theaters. I also believe we have a VHS of said movie floating around somewhere, and I'd go so far to say that we own a cassette tape of that movie's soundtrack. Ah, the innocence of youth... :p I just can't believe that the damn thing is still on; after the entire original cast has been gone for ten years, don't you think it's time to scrap things?
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Grey Wolf on October 28, 2005, 09:05:34 pm: You do indeed beat me, as I never bought a VHS of it. I did get one of those elementary-level novelizations though.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Marauder on October 28, 2005, 09:18:43 pm: :lol:

A childhood memory of mine as well... :nervous:
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Nuclear1 on October 28, 2005, 09:59:11 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Getter Robo G
*snip* the original Pink ranger went on to do some porn. :D

Gimme.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Turnsky on October 28, 2005, 10:08:39 pm: they're still running?.. damn
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Grey Wolf on October 28, 2005, 10:12:17 pm: Quote
Originally posted by nuclear1

Gimme.
She didn't.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Carl on October 29, 2005, 12:34:31 am: Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
after the entire original cast has been gone for ten years, don't you think it's time to scrap things?

well, the japanese version has been going on for three times as long. http://www.rovang.org/sentai/
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Nuke on October 29, 2005, 01:37:37 am: i dont get the thing with giant robots. they are big, slow, ineffietient, easy to knock over, its not something i would ever consider being a usefull weapons system. i think the japaneese soaked up too much radiation from fat man and little boy. its making their minds kinda wierd.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Carl on October 29, 2005, 02:34:52 am: the giant robots in sentai are very agile compared to real robots just you wait another few years. robots will get better and better at movement.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Mefustae on October 29, 2005, 02:46:21 am: Quote
Originally posted by Nuke
i think the japaneese soaked up too much radiation from fat man and little boy. its making their minds kinda wierd.
... Words cannot describe... how utterly, utterly politically incorrect that statement is. It boggles the mind!
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: kode on October 29, 2005, 03:42:18 am: Quote
Originally posted by Mefustae
... Words cannot describe... how utterly, utterly politically incorrect that statement is. It boggles the mind!

...like how the japanese don't mention why they got bombed at the hiroshima museum?
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Singh on October 29, 2005, 05:14:28 am: Quote
Originally posted by Nuke
i dont get the thing with giant robots. they are big, slow, ineffietient, easy to knock over, its not something i would ever consider being a usefull weapons system. i think the japaneese soaked up too much radiation from fat man and little boy. its making their minds kinda wierd.

Actually, depends on what type of robot too....Japanese mecha seems to be very ineffecient designs, meant primarily to emulate the human form as opposed to exploiting it to it's maximum potential. The western mech designs incorporate these a bit better, but even then its not fully realized.

Giant robots in principle is a half-way decent idea. Using the natural system of movement present in most humans allows for significant flexibility, as well as movement on a wider range of terrain faster than tanks or smaller vehicles could. While tanks are all terrain, they are pretty much one chain-link break away from being disabled. Wheels work, but get punctured quite easily. Using legs (more than two, definately) offers availability over a wide range of terrain, as well as a decent amount of redundancy (if you are using more than two) and toughness. A higher vantage point allows for more coverage of the battlefield as well, something that probably wouldn't be available to a smaller tank. If your making something that big too, it'd have to have a heck of a lot of weapons as well...

In the end however, they are quite expensive, and it comes down to the question: Quality vs Quantity...
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Nuke on October 29, 2005, 08:26:53 am: Quote
Originally posted by Mefustae
... Words cannot describe... how utterly, utterly politically incorrect that statement is. It boggles the mind!

politically correct is an oxymoron. :D
seriously, how the **** else is there to explain jpop and sezure-causing anime, its gotta be the damn radiation. :D
honestly i like the way the japaneese were before they lost the war.

Quote
Originally posted by Singh

Actually, depends on what type of robot too....Japanese mecha seems to be very ineffecient designs, meant primarily to emulate the human form as opposed to exploiting it to it's maximum potential. The western mech designs incorporate these a bit better, but even then its not fully realized.

Giant robots in principle is a half-way decent idea. Using the natural system of movement present in most humans allows for significant flexibility, as well as movement on a wider range of terrain faster than tanks or smaller vehicles could. While tanks are all terrain, they are pretty much one chain-link break away from being disabled. Wheels work, but get punctured quite easily. Using legs (more than two, definately) offers availability over a wide range of terrain, as well as a decent amount of redundancy (if you are using more than two) and toughness. A higher vantage point allows for more coverage of the battlefield as well, something that probably wouldn't be available to a smaller tank. If your making something that big too, it'd have to have a heck of a lot of weapons as well...

In the end however, they are quite expensive, and it comes down to the question: Quality vs Quantity...

as it stands im rather impressed at the japaneese progress in humanoid robots. however i am doubtfull you would ever see them used in the same manor as depicted in japaneese anime. contrary to what games tell you its pretty much a one shot one kill world theese days. most armored weapons systems, tanks and such, might be able to take a hit and keep its crew alive, but it almost always means the loss of the vehicle. i doubt anyone would use a multi-billion dollar battlemech thats dead the second it gets hit when you can bring in a dozen m1a1 abrams that can get the job done better.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: delta_7890 on October 29, 2005, 09:14:36 am: Oo; You guys are reading into the giant robots too much. Honestly, it's all just for fun and excitement. There's no more logic and feasibility to them than Gandalf and hobbits. It's fantasy, pure fantasy. Just in a hi-tech kind of way.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Grey Wolf on October 29, 2005, 12:22:02 pm: Quote
Originally posted by kode

...like how the japanese don't mention why they got bombed at the hiroshima museum?
Or how they state they were forced into WW2 by the imperialist Americans in the above museum?
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 29, 2005, 12:25:42 pm: There is one thing that a giant robot has undeniably, and a tank doesn't. Presence. Intimidation factor. Whatever you want to call it. A tank, sure, that's scary, but it's not maleviolent the way a humaniform shape can be.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: aldo_14 on October 29, 2005, 12:31:16 pm: You're not thinking of the right tanks, then.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Flaser on October 29, 2005, 03:37:14 pm: Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
You're not thinking of the right tanks, then.

Seconded.
Read some Sven Hassel.

On mechs, tanks and battle:
No matter what you do in ground battle the shorter, closer to ground vessels have the advantage since they have a smaller target profile.
Ton-for-ton a tank will be able to wield heavier weaponry as it will put less pressure on the terrain than a mech.
Ton-for-ton a tank will have a more effective armor.

I don't find the whole more legs or legs less valnurable ideology solid - after all, all your legs are one joint away from falling you.
Though you're probably right on the many legs issue - the best viable concept for a battlemechs is the spifer mechs Shirov came up with:
They are relativly small and low profile, and mount their weaponry in a similar fashion how tanks do (a big ass turret). The only reason they have legs is to make turning and traversing difficult terrain faster - and they have threads/wheel built into the base of the legs.

As for overseeing the battlefield: There's not much point to doing so. Today with informatically integrated armies and a myriad of recon measures availible you can't think of combatants as individual units anymore.
Creating a bigger target profile or sacrificing armor for said observation capacity is more of a viability than any gain.

I reccomend the excelent anime Gasaraki. It showed a quite realistic - though in ernest pretty glorified - concept of what mechs could be.
They used a separate command unit with its recon drones to give the information edge.
Said VR + Information technology was also the main thing that made the mechs head and shoulders better than tanks.
The sad thing is though that given the same information support and technologically improoved averness (cameras, VR reconstructed battlefield that grants unobstructed visuals of the battlefield) tanks would also perform in a similarly miraculous and savage manner as how 'mechs' are usually portreyed in anime. Even better than mechs as they are purer war machines.

Except for very difficult and uneven terrain or conditions completly nullfying infantry mechs will be useless or far less economic than either tanks or infantry. So places where I would use a mech:
-Swamps, very steep rolling hills, anti-tanks emplacement ridden mazes (Still open terrain! Infantry would rape you in close-quarters.)
-NBC warfare, where only vehicles can sustain your soldiers. (Power armor negates this aspect.)
There still is a niche though: clearing the road for the tanks when the terrain was specificly 'prepared' to stop them.

BTW even tanks are outdated, since helicopters have prooven to be their real nightmare along with CAS aircraft (like the A-10 or the Su-29).
Actually, except for all out NBC warfare or the employment of massed artilery, infantry is once again king of the battlefield, as it was prooven in Vietnam, then Afganistan and finally as it prooves in Iraq.
That is from the sheer 'combat' potential (after all Iraq couldn't protect its industrial assets, though in sheer guerilla warfare its pacifation prooves to be very difficult).
With modern miniaturised weaponry (ergo RPGs) infantry will be more economic and effective than any other 'weapon platform' - though the reason why modern nations refrain from employing it is kinda obvious...you need men, lots of men....and good portion of them will die whatever you do.

IMHO the only futuristic weapon technology that has a real and drastic effect on warfare would be power armor - it would once again create an overwhelming force similar to what knights and pikemen used to be in the Medieval ages.
They would gain a vast combat endurance (the real lacking of infantry) and would effectivly demand the same resources from the adversary (armor piercing high caliber weapons) as tanks do. They could also mount said weapons in greater numbers becoming superior tank killers while retaining the flexibility of infantry.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Nuke on October 29, 2005, 04:06:00 pm: Quote
Originally posted by ngtm1r
There is one thing that a giant robot has undeniably, and a tank doesn't. Presence. Intimidation factor. Whatever you want to call it. A tank, sure, that's scary, but it's not maleviolent the way a humaniform shape can be.

yea but thats not really a factor, any gun pointed at you is intimidating. if its on something that is a better target for an rpg weapon, that only makes it intimidating, and easy to kill. the suit of armor metaphore might be poetic, but poetry doesnt win wars.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Carl on October 29, 2005, 04:08:02 pm: The Megazord does have a tank mode, you know.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: TrashMan on October 29, 2005, 04:39:27 pm: A battle mech with good agility would be a real killer if used (and made correctly). Especially in city fights (anyone remeber the scenes from Robotech?)

If a mech ever reached the manuverability of a human then it would be the perfect battle system, as it could do anyting a human could - hide behind buildings (and fire around the corner), crawl, jump, run.. No to mention that a giant sniper-rifle like weapon would blast any tank and weigh less than a tank turret...and it's more flexible, as it could switch weapons system just like a human would switch rifles..

Alltough thngs like that are for future ...
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Grey Wolf on October 29, 2005, 05:05:04 pm: Spider tanks could be interesting.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 29, 2005, 05:14:47 pm: Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
You're not thinking of the right tanks, then.

That's because they don't exist. :p
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Fineus on October 29, 2005, 05:17:32 pm: Heh... I'll see your spider tank and raise you:

(http://www.animecollectibles.com/uploads/images/cels/evangelion-1.jpg)
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Grey Wolf on October 29, 2005, 05:18:46 pm: Bah. Everyone knows the spider tanks from GITS are cooler than anything from Evangelion due to Shinji being a whiny emo kid.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Fineus on October 29, 2005, 05:22:24 pm: Oh this is a whole new threads worth of debate right here ;)
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: kode on October 29, 2005, 05:27:58 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Oh this is a whole new threads worth of debate right here ;)

actually, there's not much more to be said about the shinji-tard. he's so much of a whiner that kasperl pales in comparison. nor is there much to be said about the over-ratedness of NGE, FLCL and GAINAX.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Grey Wolf on October 29, 2005, 05:28:36 pm: I enjoyed FLCL, but I agree it is overhyped. Also, Shinji makes T1g4h look well adjusted :p
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Fineus on October 29, 2005, 05:35:36 pm: Oh I'm not argueing about Shinji, he's a waste of space. But to ignore Evangelion in its entirety (including the EVAs) based simply on him would be idiocy. That said, the design of the GITS tank is also pretty damn appealing so I couldn't say exactly.

kode, what's your gripe with FLCL? Everyone has different tastes of course - but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's overrated :p
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: kode on October 29, 2005, 05:36:02 pm: join me next week when I say the same about kubrick.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Fineus on October 29, 2005, 05:38:45 pm: I've a better idea. I'll ignore your opinion untill you justify it properly :)
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: kode on October 29, 2005, 05:40:12 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
kode, what's your gripe with FLCL? Everyone has different tastes of course - but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's overrated :p

of course it doesn't. I guess it didn't appeal to me that much. but with everyone saying "omg, it's ze bestest!" is to have that opinion just because it's the "right" opinion. like saying clockwork orange pwns. I guess it was mostly the humour thing about it. which is kinda odd, since excel saga is pretty similar there, and I found ES to be simply hilarious. I guess I share the hate gainax thing that shi also has, as well. that said, I did enjoy mahoromatic, so they have some bright spots.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Fineus on October 29, 2005, 05:42:51 pm: Fair enough then :) I have to say I didn't enjoy Excel Saga at all. It just didn't do anything for me. But evidently people like it so it must be doing something right somewhere.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: kode on October 29, 2005, 05:52:31 pm: well, I guess it's a lot to do with poor poor Pedro. and how they tried to kill off the mangaka in the first ep.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 29, 2005, 05:59:18 pm: Shinji actually serves a purpose...although I grant it's one only fulfilable by the fans. Namely having him go psycho. He doesn't even have to do that, technically, just suddenly lose it and slap somebody a good one, once. Makes a nice change. :)
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on October 29, 2005, 08:03:21 pm: Ah, the Psycho Factor (TM). Guaranteed to give a character purpose, however twisted.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Nuke on October 30, 2005, 12:47:20 am: the only mechs that seem remotely realistic, are the ones from the mechwarrior games (is that the same as battletech?). it would take a fusion reactor and a hundred tonne chassis to get a useable weapon system out of a walker. the neuro-interface and myomer actuators would probibly make mechs possible, however another element of the game that makes the tech seem possible, it takes place a thousand years from now. however my eexperience with the game is that small and manuverable is the way to go, and in most cases a tank does that job just fine.
Title: Tanks!
Post by: Getter Robo G on October 30, 2005, 12:51:06 am: Sorry Thunder,

But if you want a real spider tank the Appleseed Gun Platforms blow the GITS Tackihomas(SP?) totally away...

My God, they need an army of Hecatoms (mech frames) to take down one of them! and only 12 exist to defend the city!!!

They are covered with guns that are sure powerful enough and you never get to see them fire their main cannons. They may be a bit slow but if you want a TANK you want oen of them! :D

BTW if you want a good robot get a Super Robot (like me!) Any robot from the 70's will run rings around the voltrons and megazords...
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 30, 2005, 01:17:03 am: Quote
Originally posted by Nuke
the only mechs that seem remotely realistic, are the ones from the mechwarrior games (is that the same as battletech?).

Yes. Mostly.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Flaser on October 30, 2005, 06:52:31 am: Quote
Originally posted by Nuke
the only mechs that seem remotely realistic, are the ones from the mechwarrior games (is that the same as battletech?). it would take a fusion reactor and a hundred tonne chassis to get a useable weapon system out of a walker. the neuro-interface and myomer actuators would probibly make mechs possible, however another element of the game that makes the tech seem possible, it takes place a thousand years from now. however my eexperience with the game is that small and manuverable is the way to go, and in most cases a tank does that job just fine.

Don't get me started on battletech.

Though first things first: I like Battletech. It has well defined 3dimensional characters, a compelling storyline and intricate drama. (Kerensky's Blood trilogy will forever be among my classics.)

However:
They stole most of their prominent designs from Macross!
(When Harmony Gold bought it, the show was reedited and fused with two other Super Dimensional shows: Orguss and Southern Cross.
Don't know what I'm talking about? - It's ROBOTECH)
Technically the MECHS don't make any more sense than MOBILE SUITS
No, they don't waltz around with hand held weaponry, all of their weapons are integrated. However beside a wide range of chicken walkers their design isn't any more sensible than Tomino's Suits. (Their armor distribution is non-sense. Remember - it's actually Macross designs reimagined) They are way too tall, and way too humanoid to be sensible warmachines.
Granted, the fiction itself is high on unobtainum, however just like Gundam's Minovsky particles there are enough handwavium elements to make any hard sci-fi (or engineering) fan scream in terror.:
-They are powered by a fusion reactor, however it's never adressed what happens to the nuclear radiation. (Yes, fusion is not as bad as fission but thanks to the reaction itself, there will be neutrons and loose protons all around the place). *GUNDAM on the other hand uses a theoretically truely 'clean' reation.
-Pilots are hot and sweaty inside the cockpit since the waste heat build up. - That's plot device, pure and simple. If a nuclear device started pumping out a reasonable percentage of waste heat where it shouldn't you'd cook before you realised it.
-Mechs have heat sinks and lots of them - however they're all covered up! That's nonsense - no heat sink could operate like that.

As for the whole a thousand years ahead:
-They have worse tech than we do! They don't have cruise missiles for example!

Battletech and Mechwarriror are games with game mechanics.
Just like Freespace it's not the 'real' stuff.
Gundam, Escaflowne, Macross is entertainment and for all their realistic aspects they're the 'real' stuff either.

The most likely and oddly accurate explanation though is the Burnside zeroeth law of space combat:
SF fans don't want to read about the life and times of a nuclear missile, therefore space fighters will exist.

I believe a similar phenomenon exists with mechs too.
Yes, there are niches where they could be usefull - however the all too popular, and unfounded conception that they would be a 'superior' force is laughably out of picture.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Nuke on October 30, 2005, 10:23:37 am: i watched bits and pieces of the gundam series. their implementation seems to be slightly less realistic (macross too). giant robots in space seems all wrong, all you need in space is a good engine and alot of rcs thrusters. putting a mech in space seems a putting a fish out of water. in battletech you seem to have a civilized warfare aspect that keeps people from nuking the crap out of eachother. none the less it seems unlikely that with any modern or forseeable technologies any military would choose mechs over more conventional weapons systems.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: aldo_14 on October 30, 2005, 11:14:20 am: Oh, for goodness sake. Who gives a monkeys whether mechs actually make sense, they're simply supposed to be big cool stompy things.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: delta_7890 on October 30, 2005, 11:21:27 am: Flaser, a slight correction. It's Macross, Mospeada, and Southern Cross that make up the horror that is Robotech. Orguss, while made from the same studio that produced Macross, does not appear in the Robotech series to my knowledge. ^^;

>>; And I'll agree with Aldo as I said the same thing a few pages ago and no one seemed to care. It's all about fun and explodiness.

And on a side note, Ideon beats any mecha you can toss at it. It has the ability to end reality itself!
Title: Re: Tanks!
Post by: TrashMan on October 30, 2005, 04:30:41 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Getter Robo G

BTW if you want a good robot get a Super Robot (like me!) Any robot from the 70's will run rings around the voltrons and megazords...

What?
Voltron rulez!!!!
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: TrashMan on October 30, 2005, 04:35:36 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Flaser

Battletech and Mechwarriror are games with game mechanics.
Just like Freespace it's not the 'real' stuff.
Gundam, Escaflowne, Macross is entertainment and for all their realistic aspects they're the 'real' stuff either.

???

What are you saying here, as I'm kinda confused...
The realism factor of different movies/games does differ (from mech controling to power source and construction), but are you saying all such series are crap or that the 3 you mentioned are better and more real than the others?
Title: Re: Re: Tanks!
Post by: Grey Wolf on October 30, 2005, 04:42:30 pm: Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan

What?
Voltron rulez!!!!
Voltron falls into the same genre as Robotech and Power Rangers: Japanese shows with new American storylines.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: TrashMan on October 30, 2005, 04:46:25 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Heh... I'll see your spider tank and raise you:

(http://www.animecollectibles.com/uploads/images/cels/evangelion-1.jpg)

I'm in!

(//
[url]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/appleberryatthestore/mywallpaper/Escaflowne.jpg[/url])

And I raise you:
(http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/3217/escaflowneattack1wk.jpg)
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Mongoose on October 30, 2005, 04:53:58 pm: I thought Big O was true to real life. I mean, those giant piston things make sense, don't they? :nervous:
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: kode on October 30, 2005, 05:55:29 pm: hmm... should I really bother getting a screencap of the decaulion from kiddy grade...
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on October 30, 2005, 06:02:43 pm: Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan

I'm in!

(//
[url]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/appleberryatthestore/mywallpaper/Escaflowne.jpg[/url])

And I raise you:
(http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/3217/escaflowneattack1wk.jpg)

(http://www.theroseking.net/animehub/evangelion/fire.jpg)
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Unknown Target on October 30, 2005, 06:22:05 pm: One thing that's always bugged me about most Japanese robots is that they're...like humans in a big suit. For instance, look at that picture above - it doesn't even look like a robot at all, and some Japanese robots have mouths, two eyes, etc, or like Gundam, have human-ish proportions. Macross is one of my favorites, because the robots actually look like robots.
I guess American robots are better in the respect that they look like giant walking death machines. Batteletech mechs (for the most part - let's just go with the Mechwarrior games for now), look like they have actuaters and pistons and basically like they're built out of metal.

A good compromise between the two are Heavy Gear mechs. At 14 feet tall, they're not the largest, but they're certainly the most plausible humanisque robots around.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on October 30, 2005, 06:52:24 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
One thing that's always bugged me about most Japanese robots is that they're...like humans in a big suit. For instance, look at that picture above - it doesn't even look like a robot at all, and some Japanese robots have mouths, two eyes, etc, or like Gundam, have human-ish proportions. Macross is one of my favorites, because the robots actually look like robots.
I guess American robots are better in the respect that they look like giant walking death machines. Batteletech mechs (for the most part - let's just go with the Mechwarrior games for now), look like they have actuaters and pistons and basically like they're built out of metal.

A good compromise between the two are Heavy Gear mechs. At 14 feet tall, they're not the largest, but they're certainly the most plausible humanisque robots around.

You don't know much about Evangelion, do you? :p
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: kode on October 30, 2005, 06:52:39 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.

(http://www.theroseking.net/animehub/evangelion/fire.jpg)

game over.
(http://img.theswe.de/decaullion.jpg)

looks like I could be bothered to post it...
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on October 30, 2005, 07:06:11 pm: Indeed:

(http://evabeast.com/4images/data/media/126/vandread2-top1.jpg)
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Mongoose on October 30, 2005, 07:10:03 pm: I'd better stay out of this thread if it starts getting spoiler-ish regarding EVA; I'm still on the second episode of [adult swim]'s run. :p
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 30, 2005, 07:13:01 pm: Quote
Originally posted by delta_7890
Flaser, a slight correction. It's Macross, Mospeada, and Southern Cross that make up the horror that is Robotech. Orguss, while made from the same studio that produced Macross, does not appear in the Robotech series to my knowledge. ^^;

I'll see your horror and raise you babbling about spiritua. THAT'S horror, son. I came for the giant robots. Robotech keeps the giant robots at the forefront. :p

And the game is only over if you're conceding your defeat to me. :p

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/ngtm1r/night.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/ngtm1r/bloodasp2.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/ngtm1r/argus.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/ngtm1r/apocalypse_now.jpg)
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Taristin on October 30, 2005, 07:15:35 pm: I see this thread and all I can think of is "Boys and their toys"... :sigh:
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: TrashMan on October 30, 2005, 07:24:04 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.

(http://www.theroseking.net/animehub/evangelion/fire.jpg)

Ha!
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1507/escasig0mf.jpg)
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on October 30, 2005, 07:47:39 pm: You fail to realize that Berserker Unit 1 would quite handily tear apart Escaflowne :p. That, and it looks cooler.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 30, 2005, 08:57:06 pm: Sadly, my money's on the EVA.

Unless you can disconnect it from its powersource...five minutes to shutdown without cable connections. :p
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Grey Wolf on October 30, 2005, 09:02:05 pm: Metal Gear Rex vs. EVA? Use the nuke as an EMP weapon and destroy the powersource.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Singh on October 30, 2005, 10:07:21 pm: Quote
Originally posted by ngtm1r

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/ngtm1r/apocalypse_now.jpg)

Now that is simple and sheer bad-assery. No bad hair does, no fancy swords, nothing. Just simple bad-assedness along with two armfulls of lasers. What can go wrong with that? :D
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: StratComm on October 30, 2005, 10:21:23 pm: A lot actually. One shell into that unprotected knee pivot and you can kiss the whole thing goodbye. Of course, that's a problem with mechs in general, and why in reality they aren't all that tactically viable even if you could build them.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on October 30, 2005, 10:41:13 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf
Metal Gear Rex vs. EVA? Use the nuke as an EMP weapon and destroy the powersource.

Spoiler:
Unit 1 in Berserker Mode can run without power. Also, later on in the series, Eva 1 gets an S2 Engine, meaning it can keep going and going and going. :p
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Singh on October 30, 2005, 10:44:39 pm: Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
A lot actually. One shell into that unprotected knee pivot and you can kiss the whole thing goodbye. Of course, that's a problem with mechs in general, and why in reality they aren't all that tactically viable even if you could build them.

You could probably say the same about a grenade into a set of tank treads as well - its not that a tank is COMPLETELY invulnerable either. ;)

However, for the vulnerabilities present in it and compared with the ones present in the mech and the costs involved, yes, it would probably be cheaper and more viable to get several tanks. That is, unless reactive or much, much tougher armor can be developed that would suit a mech better....
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Taristin on October 30, 2005, 11:44:24 pm: Now... what is the point of mechs? They're big expensive one-manned vessels that are made to destroy eachother? Why not just send in humans? Either way people die. :sigh:
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Nuke on October 31, 2005, 01:17:41 am: Quote
Originally posted by ngtm1r

I'll see your horror and raise you babbling about spiritua. THAT'S horror, son. I came for the giant robots. Robotech keeps the giant robots at the forefront. :p

And the game is only over if you're conceding your defeat to me. :p

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/ngtm1r/night.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/ngtm1r/bloodasp2.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/ngtm1r/argus.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/ngtm1r/apocalypse_now.jpg)

now if they could only do a battletech game that has proper colision detection.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: kode on October 31, 2005, 02:25:54 am: I don't see why you're still posting land-based mechs, when I just posted one as big as the moon...
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 31, 2005, 02:32:41 am: 'cuz those are boring. And also low-detail ugly.

AND invariably get destroyed by much smaller machines which belong to the good guys. :p
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: kode on October 31, 2005, 02:40:03 am: Quote
Originally posted by ngtm1r
'cuz those are boring. And also low-detail ugly.

AND invariably get destroyed by much smaller machines which belong to the good guys. :p

true. but that's not because of the design or anything, that is because the good guys always win in the end. with a few exceptions.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 31, 2005, 02:48:59 am: Exactly. The Plot itself frowns upon such mecha. Can we do anything less?
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: kode on October 31, 2005, 03:17:14 am: well, it was taken down by 15 fleet-killing ships, no mecha. it'd still beat any mecha around. especially after terraforming the planet the mechas are on.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: WMCoolmon on October 31, 2005, 03:45:15 am: Pawel is a brilliant modeller and 3D artist in general. When I was working on Mechwar3D (as webmaster) he was relatively well-known...that was about 3-4 years ago.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: TrashMan on October 31, 2005, 06:26:11 am: Quote
Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
You fail to realize that Berserker Unit 1 would quite handily tear apart Escaflowne :p. That, and it looks cooler.

Eh?

EVA might be bigger, but Escaflowne can teleport, has integrated beam cannons, a sword that cuts trough practicly everything...and oh, let's not forget that it can alter reality

Quote

A lot actually. One shell into that unprotected knee pivot and you can kiss the whole thing goodbye. Of course, that's a problem with mechs in general, and why in reality they aren't all that tactically viable even if you could build them.

Thats why making a completely humaniod mech is better. When a man loses his arm, he's still far from imobile - he can hop on one leg or drag himself in the desired direction (for a mech with high powered arms it would be even easier), and still shoot or roll.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: aldo_14 on October 31, 2005, 07:28:20 am: I have to be honest, if there was an easily moddable mech-game out there, I'd be gone like that...........
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Ford Prefect on October 31, 2005, 09:44:51 am: (http://www.aintitcool.com/image/hgttg-marvin.jpg)
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Grey Wolf on October 31, 2005, 09:53:51 am: I honestly did not picture Marvin as being anything like that.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Fineus on October 31, 2005, 10:19:33 am: That's because that is the crappy "new" Marvin. The older version was better.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Getter Robo G on October 31, 2005, 10:31:43 am: Gunbuster (with Black hole bomb), Detonator Orgun (with his Solar Cross), and me with Star Enigizer...

nuff said...

(teleportation is very nice, but what's the range...)

[EDIT]

Forgot about Aphrodite and Venus with their missiles. Not really that powerful but it's cool as hell to have to hot women scream out..

"BREAST MISSILES!" every time they fire those metal sweater puppies :) (should I post a pic?)
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: aldo_14 on October 31, 2005, 10:55:32 am: Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
That's because that is the crappy "new" Marvin. The older version was better.

I didn't like that one, myself. And the new one has too much of an iPod look to it (particularly as the head is far, far too big).
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: ChronoReverse on October 31, 2005, 11:22:29 am: Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan

Eh?

EVA might be bigger, but Escaflowne can teleport, has integrated beam cannons, a sword that cuts trough practicly everything...and oh, let's not forget that it can alter reality

You really haven't watched Eva have you? You also seem to have an misconception of Escaflowne...

Escaflowne's sword is (liquid) metal. It can't cut through anything. It'll just cut through whatever Escaflowne is physically capable of slamming it through.

The part about messing with reality and fate is Hitomi's ability, not Escaflowne.

Unless you're referring to the Movie version of Escaflowne (which from the pictures you aren't) which can cause storms and lightning to destroy everything XD

EVA-01

First of all, this thing is huge as a skyscraper. Escaflowne would come up to its knees at best. But it still moves with the agility of a human. Scaled that high it's really quick.

In one of episodes, it also moves faster than the eye can see.

EVA's aren't robots but giant monsters with armour plating. That's why they're not mechs really. They do need power to operate in general but EVA-01 has a built in S2 engine later that provides unlimited power.

Not to mention that EVA-00 took a N2 mine explosion to the face with only miniscule damage despite not having an AT field on. N2 mines are nukes in case you didn't know.

Eva can also regenerate.

Oh yeah, EVA-01 has the ability to end the world. Kinda overpowered but meh. It also sprouts eight (or was it six) wings and flies when it's doing its world ending business.
Title: I Hate the Power Rangers...so, so much
Post by: Nuke on October 31, 2005, 11:52:00 am: thats the other thing that bugs me, flying giant robots. a bit ass robot would weigh far to much to fly without an extremely large wing surface. in addition a giant robot is not the most effietient flying machine out there. a pure aircraft has a much better chance in the air.mechs in space ya right, all those other systems are just more things that can fail or seriously **** with your cg. the jump jets in the mechwarrior games are more a manuverability assistant than an engine system and is typically employed in a much more realistic way.