Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: JarC on June 04, 2004, 01:09:39 pm
-
Any of the nVidia card owners tried this yet? I only got my first one a couple of months ago, so forgive me if this is old hat...
http://www.stereo3d.com/news/news0062.html
I must say, I was pretty amazed how good the effect is with games that were developed with this possiblity in mind. It even sports customizable laser sights for configured games...and best of all, FS2 has its own entry in the list of games :D
-
ooooohhh... nice...
-
would be cool for any simulation, especially mech warrior and stuff.
-
Question is... does it look real?
-
well, that depends on the game actually...there's a test app included that made me jump back from the monitor in reflex, the logo suddenly jumped out of the screen and instinctively I reacted by pulling backward...weird experience...the glasses prolly also play a big part, i just have the ordinary red/blue glasses to try with before I go actually looking for pageflip glasses. On the whole I'd say it's a killer effect and it looks great.
There's hotkeys to control settings in-game...
-
Bah. I want halloprojectors...
-
screenie ;) red/blue glasses required...
(http://freespace.kicks-ass.net/_images/fs/myrmi3d.jpg)
-
If I squint enough, it looks kinda cool.
But I'll be damned before I replace my 9600xt, and waaay before I ever put on those silly glasses.
-
What a insanely stupid thing that 'feature' is.
Heck, the colours look SOOOOOO messed up with one of those thingies. And SCP is all about beautiful colours. Even monochrome looks better. Creating a depth-illusion by filtering off colours = stupid. :D
Oh, yeah - and nVidia sucks :p
-
What about those pageflip ones JarC mentioned? There would be no color inballance with those.
On the cool factor level, combine simulated 3D viewing with hi-poly models or bump-mapping and you've got a recipy for something sweet!
Later!
-
I for one think it's really clever, at least until a less gimmicky way of implementing 3D vision is found. Like those glasses that actually project like a HUD and totally fool those eyes into generating perspective. Yeah...
-
Now, for me, I see no depth, ever. So no need for me to watch this kind of stuff, my eyes see everything flat, be it on a screen, or in RL.
-
I saw some 3D glasses for Descent2 once. They did some rapid flickering that supposedly made it look more 3D, but I don't remember how effective it was. Go figure.
With a good enough system, hefty code modifications, and two mini screens you could render a left-eye viewpoint and right-eyeviewpoint it make it *really* appear to be 3D without any sort of quality loss.
It doesn't get any better than that...
-
Originally posted by Lightspeed
What a insanely stupid thing that 'feature' is.
Heck, the colours look SOOOOOO messed up with one of those thingies. And SCP is all about beautiful colours. Even monochrome looks better. Creating a depth-illusion by filtering off colours = stupid. :D
Oh, yeah - and nVidia sucks :p
guess that shows you know more about using colors in PS than in real life...You get a full color image with red/blue glasses with no color what so ever filtered out.
True, each eye gets to see part of the spectrum because one color is filtered out, but it is filtered out ONLY for the ONE eye. Both eyes combined see the full spectrum, and your brain () is capable enough to reconstruct the separated info to a complete spectrum...or you must be colorblind in which case you'd be missing colors anyways...and those not colorblind will still enjoy the multitude of lucid colors added by SCP...
So next time you start knocking a feature, get your info straight ok? there's sofar 9 different types of 3D devices supported by the card, so no need to stick to the red/blue, which is the cheapest way to try it out and possibly buy a better type of glasses. It is also the only way to try and share the effect in places like here...
the list of supported devices:
DDC VGA Glasses (IO Display)
Dual VGA Output (Dep3D) <---- !!!! @Setehk & WMC (And NO code modifs required!)
Vertical Interleaved (SeeReal)
Horizontal Interleaved (VREX)
White line code glasses
Blue line code glasses
Anaglyph stereo (Red/Blue)
Sharp 3D Display
Direct 3-Pin DIN Vesa Connect (depends on card manufacturer)
but...just because the effect is so good, it also reveals all the ugly graphix hacks still present in fs2_open...it still is largely a 2D game...
-
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
With a good enough system, hefty code modifications, and two mini screens you could render a left-eye viewpoint and right-eyeviewpoint it make it *really* appear to be 3D without any sort of quality loss.
It doesn't get any better than that...
There would probably be a bit of a drop in effective FPS. If your system can only get to 100 fps normally, in theory it would be forced to divide the FPS between scan-pulses so that each eye would only get 50 fps. Sounds like this is a job for a GF-6800 Ultra or Rx800.
-
I will vouch for the awesomeness of true dual-channel 3d, be it color, scanline, or frame interlaced. The alternating glasses are probably the coolest effect of all, although the FPS has to be at a high level to not give one eyestrain very quickly. 120Hz isn't bad, but if you've got a monitor that will do higher then you're better off with the higher settings. As for losing frames of game FPS, that's not exactly true, the onscreen image continues to update regardless of which "eye" is being shown the information, and your brain does a very good job of making it flow. That said, it doesn't work very well on a small screen, as the edges of the screen "anchor" the image in an unnatural way, and the effect is limited by how close you are to the onscreen images versus the percentage of your field of vision that the screen occupies.
-
Originally posted by JarC
guess that shows you know more about using colors in PS than in real life...You get a full color image with red/blue glasses with no color what so ever filtered out.
True, each eye gets to see part of the spectrum because one color is filtered out, but it is filtered out ONLY for the ONE eye. Both eyes combined see the full spectrum, and your brain () is capable enough to reconstruct the separated info to a complete spectrum...or you must be colorblind in which case you'd be missing colors anyways...and those not colorblind will still enjoy the multitude of lucid colors added by SCP...
Not really. 3D glasses generate a very odd look, as you filter out different parts of the spectrum on each one of your eyes. For a real colour sight you'd need to use colours that are not used by the game - something that doesnt exist. Your brain of course attempts to reconstruct the image, but it does, and will still look odd. Very odd.
So next time you start knocking a feature, get your info straight ok? there's sofar 9 different types of 3D devices supported by the card, so no need to stick to the red/blue, which is the cheapest way to try it out and possibly buy a better type of glasses. It is also the only way to try and share the effect in places like here...
the list of supported devices:
DDC VGA Glasses (IO Display)
Dual VGA Output (Dep3D) <---- !!!! @Setehk & WMC (And NO code modifs required!)
Vertical Interleaved (SeeReal)
Horizontal Interleaved (VREX)
White line code glasses
Blue line code glasses
Anaglyph stereo (Red/Blue)
Sharp 3D Display
Direct 3-Pin DIN Vesa Connect (depends on card manufacturer)
but...just because the effect is so good, it also reveals all the ugly graphix hacks still present in fs2_open...it still is largely a 2D game...
Yeah, the other solutions might be better. And about that last paragraph...
I'm proud that it is like that. The more 2D the game stays, the better it will play and look. Have you looked at any newer games with their '1337 3d explosions'? They look so incredibly bad compared to FS2's beautiful prerendered animations and are substinentially slower (as they have to be rendered from scratch).
Staying in 2D, things will not only be FASTER, but also LOOK BETTER, if done the right way. Just look at shockwaves. You can *never* recreate the detail you can put into a prerendered 2-D image/animation in a realtime 3D environment.
You can have an explosion in-game that took 6 hours to render on your computer, without any noticeable slow-down :)
-
AHEM
http://www.edimensional.com/products/edglasses.htm
I want one of those...
...to hell with red/blue.
-
i kinda like stereo, its also good if yr doing cad or modeling. im gonna get mee one of these 3d displays eventually. id love to get a headset for cfs3, so i could look around inside the cockpit as i fly. it also aids in aiming, makes it more acurate to real shooting.
at the very least you reminded me to upgrade my drivers.
-
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
Question is... does it look real?
I don't think it will make Commander Keen look real.
-
Originally posted by Lightspeed
Yeah, the other solutions might be better. And about that last paragraph...
I'm proud that it is like that. The more 2D the game stays, the better it will play and look. Have you looked at any newer games with their '1337 3d explosions'? They look so incredibly bad compared to FS2's beautiful prerendered animations and are substinentially slower (as they have to be rendered from scratch).
Staying in 2D, things will not only be FASTER, but also LOOK BETTER, if done the right way. Just look at shockwaves. You can *never* recreate the detail you can put into a prerendered 2-D image/animation in a realtime 3D environment.
You can have an explosion in-game that took 6 hours to render on your computer, without any noticeable slow-down :)
I've nothing against prerendered artwork, but when it's just plastered in without being mapped to a 3D mesh, it looks butt-ugly. Besides, even a half decent particle system is capable of creating the type of explosions currently in FS2, it ain't exactly like they're the top notch result of a good FX artist.
For one, the retail ones look unnaturally atmospheric (instead of vacuum). Plus they is clipped very visibly, the replacements sofar offered, bring down performance even more than a better than half-decent particle system...without looking half as good...
nebulaes look like they're wallpapered on the inside of a box.
Boy, I guess it's obvious I'm loosing interrest in FS2_open already...it's a pity to see all these great efforts go to waste on the majority of those that should still be able to enjoy FS2_open, but can't AAR of the growing uber requirements.
Example: I can have UT2K4 with all bells and whistles running like silk on my PII500 with just 384Megs in 1024x768, but FS_open just won't anymore, it simply dies...and this ain't exactly helping in growing a larger interrest in spacesims to such levels that, dare I say it...a triquel could be considered...and you know what's the reason?
Folks going overboard on detail and FX you will hardly ever see, simply because you don't get the time to come close enough or just busy staying alive and pushing missiles up someones tailpipe...or on itty bitty mesh details that no one is going to notice but the artist and those having drooled over the carefully posed screenshots, in that single one position in which the effect is visible...(out of a possible 360 degrees arc of viewpoints for every other direction)
and nice colours? well if that's your no. 1 prerequirement, I've still got a couple of sheets lying around from the flower power era, guaranteed to let you see colours you've never even seen in any game :D come'on!!!
And that is the difference between you and me, you see FS_open as your artistical playground, to prove what you are capable of. Me, I am more interrested in seeing these same efforts and talents applied to show what FS_open could be capable of...as it is now, the game itself is being turned into something to show off nice GFX instead of gameplay...
-
Well, it all boils down to gameplay, always has, that is WHY a lot a of 2D games are so good, particuarly the older ones, because people didn't have access to these incredible graphics and so had to do something else to impress the player, like make the game engaging ;)
-
JarC. You can always turn the improvements off.
I've never understood why people whine about slowdowns that they haven't lifted a finger to stop.
-
Not to add in, but if he can run ut2k4 on the system he spec'd I want to see it.
-
Originally posted by karajorma
JarC. You can always turn the improvements off.
I've never understood why people whine about slowdowns that they haven't lifted a finger to stop.
Yes I know I can turn them off, yes I know I have not done anything myself to improve this situation.
Why?
1) to get a game to become popular among as wide a public as you can hope for, this would not be the answer to persuade them...
2) you do not need to be able to cook in order to distinguish between a soggy burger and a prime steak, I wine because better looking games than FS_open run without much problems on my system, so why can't FSopen?...because it's become a memory hogg
@liberator: wanna see UT2K4 run on my system? If you can get a visa to come over and visit I'll be glad to show you, but I highly doubt I'll live to see that happening