Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Wiki Project => Topic started by: Black Wolf on November 12, 2005, 10:53:37 pm

Title: Image space?
Post by: Black Wolf on November 12, 2005, 10:53:37 pm
Is there anywhere we can upload images for use in the wiki? I was considering using a thread with attatchments, but I was worried it'd suck up bandwidth if people randomly browsed through it. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Fury on November 13, 2005, 02:33:15 am
Use ImageShack?
http://www.imageshack.us/
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Setekh on November 13, 2005, 02:38:35 am
Is there anywhere we can upload images for use in the wiki? I was considering using a thread with attatchments, but I was worried it'd suck up bandwidth if people randomly browsed through it. Any ideas?

This might sound a little clumsy, but as an extension to your attachment idea, we could do this: set up a private forum where only senior Wiki contributors can go. Then, if you ever need to post for a Wiki article, post a new thread for the article in the private forum and attach as many files as you need to in separate posts. That way no one can accidentally load every image in the Wiki. People without access to that forum can request the senior contributors and you can hand out the links - then just reference them in the HTML you post. The question isn't so much bandwidth; rather, it's a question of how much this will impact the databases we're using. It shouldn't be too much.

Is that okay? Or does it sound too clumsy for you?
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: WMCoolmon on November 13, 2005, 02:52:49 am
I was thinking some kind of upload system, with notification, a filesize limit, and an easy way for admins to prune images.

The forum system definitely sounds workable.

IMHO it should be somewhere onsite, so that it's easier to move things around, and images don't die off because of bandwidth getting exceeded on an account.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: StratComm on November 13, 2005, 02:57:47 am
If they are put into a private forum, would normal users be able to see them?  I've run into places before where you had to have forum access to see the attachment itself.
Title: Re: Image space:Private Forum
Post by: Black Wolf on November 13, 2005, 02:58:03 am

This might sound a little clumsy, but as an extension to your attachment idea, we could do this: set up a private forum where only senior Wiki contributors can go. Then, if you ever need to post for a Wiki article, post a new thread for the article in the private forum and attach as many files as you need to in separate posts. That way no one can accidentally load every image in the Wiki. People without access to that forum can request the senior contributors and you can hand out the links - then just reference them in the HTML you post. The question isn't so much bandwidth; rather, it's a question of how much this will impact the databases we're using. It shouldn't be too much.

Is that okay? Or does it sound too clumsy for you?

That sounds ideal. :)

[EDIT]Doh - Strat's right, or at least, he was on vB, and I'd assume of here too. Hmm...
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Setekh on November 13, 2005, 03:35:49 am
Oh, right. Well, that's not that hard to get around: make it a viewable forum, but just let moderators be the only one who can post. How about that? :)
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Black Wolf on November 13, 2005, 03:42:19 am
Works for me I suppose, so long as I have somewhere to put my Bosch pic. :D
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: kasperl on November 13, 2005, 12:51:08 pm
If you click one of those threads, you'd  still be downloading all the images.


What's wrong with a simple FTP account to hand around to senior contributers?
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Fury on November 13, 2005, 12:58:23 pm
What's wrong with ImageShack? :p

We could even install this one for this very purpose...
http://mods.simplemachines.org/index.php?mod=134
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Setekh on November 13, 2005, 07:19:49 pm
If you click one of those threads, you'd still be downloading all the images.

Yeah, all the images on one article (as each thread corresponds to one article) - which is exactly what you'd be doing if you clicked on the article in the Wiki.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: StratComm on November 13, 2005, 07:34:45 pm
Could you make it hidden but not protected?  Like the old hosted project forums were before they were deleted; if you knew the forum ID you could still get in and look around (and post, though you would want to limit that in this case) but it didn't show up in the forum index?  Everyone would have access, but the chances of someone who shouldn't be able to post in it actually finding their way into the forum itself would be slim.  I don't know if this board system can support that, though.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: WMCoolmon on November 13, 2005, 07:38:05 pm
Maybe you could give everyone view access to the forum, but put it in a category that virtually noone has access to.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Sandwich on November 14, 2005, 02:18:00 am
What's wrong with a simple FTP account to hand around to senior contributers?

That's what I want to know. There's asolutely no reason that I can see not to use a Wiki FTP account (unless someone figures out how the Wikipedia handles such things). We're nowhere near overstepping our bandwidth limits, if that's a concern.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Black Wolf on November 14, 2005, 02:25:12 am
Well, if I'm going to be a major contributor (and I expect I will be) FTP is 100% out for me - the Uni has blocked it and I'm using their internet 9 months out of 12.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: StratComm on November 14, 2005, 03:08:38 am
Who on earth blocks FTP?  I use it all the time for school.

FTP would be nice, but it's hardly necessary if the thread idea would work equally well.  I'd think that you'd need someone in charge, much like a project head, to be sure that the space didn't get cluttered or abused.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: WMCoolmon on November 14, 2005, 03:09:30 am
A simple upload script with PHP isn't too hard to make. There's probably dozens floating around.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: kode on November 14, 2005, 07:35:22 am
use an0ns uploader ;)
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Nuke on November 15, 2005, 04:02:03 am
i have another idea. all the pics i put in the wiki are stored on my nukemod acount over at game warden. when you want to add an image use your image shack, wepsace or whatever to store your image. and then when you use a pic in the wiki but a comment with it that says its stored offsite. then every week or two, an admin does a search for the comment (which should be standardized so that its always the same), and transfers them to a storage location on the same server. that way they only get stored off site for no longet than a week or so. so the rules would be, if you use a picture offsite, tag it with an indicator of sorts that can be easily found by the admins. you would be required to leave your images on whatever external source you have for 1 week (or some other duration) after wich they should be transfered to the onsite location and can be taken down to free up their account space. this also gives admens a chance to edit the images for size and abuses (such as storing your porn in the wiki :D).
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Black Wolf on November 15, 2005, 05:14:23 am
That seems overly complicated and work intensive. TBH, I can't see too many better systems than either a forum or an image uploader. It's one upload in the forum system, which is so straightforward a monkey could do it, one address check, and a paste into the wiki. Neat and tidy. I can probably even make a standardized tag for it so it can be captioned and aligned without any real work.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: kode on November 16, 2005, 07:17:18 am
isn't mediawiki able to handle this OOB?
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Ferret on November 17, 2005, 10:50:54 am
A simple upload script with PHP isn't too hard to make. There's probably dozens floating around.
http://www.ferretgames.com/imageupload

Open for all.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Sandwich on January 11, 2006, 12:10:36 pm
Ok, I've got an FTP account for Wiki images set up and ready. BW, I hate to say it, but you'll just have to get someone else to upload your images for you if FTP is blocked; perhaps make a thread where you post the pics as attachments and any of the other senior Wiki contributors that runs across it can upload those pics if they haven't been uploaded already (if someone uploads the pictures, they'd post to say so).
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: kasperl on January 14, 2006, 05:50:57 am
I can write an image uploader, probably. It'd be PHP, check the files extension and size, and return the URL where the image can be found.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: redmenace on January 20, 2006, 04:35:15 pm
I can now upload images. Please PM me of kara about submissions.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Shade on June 10, 2006, 04:42:27 pm
Any chance I could get permission to upload images as well? I've got plans to make the FRED related pages more attractive and user friendly by adding illustrative images where appropriate. Plus one more uploader for people to bug wouldn't hurt with Redmenace currently occupied elsewhere :)
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: karajorma on June 10, 2006, 05:15:11 pm
Shade and Wanderer seem to have more time than I do to do things for the wiki. Might be worth giving them upload powers too.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Shade on June 10, 2006, 05:32:48 pm
While we're on the subject, Mars (Moniter on the wiki) is also putting a ton of effort into it. I don't know if he plans anything that might need image uploads, but given the amount of updates he does (rather more than me), I imagine it will happen sooner or later.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Mars on June 10, 2006, 05:52:45 pm
The updates I do are all pretty minor, and the major things I'm planning on doing over my summer break are all of the incomplete mission enteries, which doesn't require images; however, as long as this is happening maybe it's time to replace those retail ship images, the GTF Perseus (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTF_Perseus) for instance makes me gag every time I see it.
(http://www.freespace2.com/images/ship_perseus/smpic.jpg)
I'm not sure how to take consistant screen shots, so maybe it's just as well somone else does it; but I could try.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Shade on June 10, 2006, 06:01:59 pm
Best bet probably is using the lab (F3 from the main hall). But you're not required to do anything, I just mentioned you cause every time I go to do something, you seem to show up with at least 3-4 entries in the recent changes list :D
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Sandwich on June 10, 2006, 07:16:20 pm
I forget how I handled the FTP access... does anyone know if it was one shared login, or individual logins?
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: karajorma on June 11, 2006, 01:54:17 am
Shared.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Wanderer on June 11, 2006, 02:14:46 am
Suggestion... (as made by WMC ages ago...) you (we) could try using Ship Viewer (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Script_-_Ship_Viewer) script that was made just for that purpose... Lighting is not optimal though and envmaps are not too good but other its pretty nice.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Mars on June 11, 2006, 02:24:08 am
Sounds good if it works better than what I've been doing

I took screenshots of every single ship in the game from the lab, that was the easy part, I've ran into several problems

So yeah, I'll give that a look.

Edit:
Wow, he fit all that into 98 lines of script?


Edit (again):
Ugh, minor problem. Anyone know how to script in the ability to take screenshots? I suppose I could just paste from clipboard, never mind

Major question:

Is 320X240 too big? How big should they be?
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Wanderer on June 11, 2006, 02:28:07 am
Hope you have mouse with three buttons (who doesnt these days).. Moving mouse cursor (with button pressed) to upper left corner opens next ship, lower left exits the game, upper right zooms in and lower right zooms out.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Mars on June 17, 2006, 11:08:41 pm
I've run into a couple of problems first off, the script doesn't work in 3.6.9 RC 2, I'm not sure if that's a bug with RC 2 or the script.

Also, can I add the ability to export screenshots to that script? It's reall inconvinient to get it from the tool bar every time.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Wanderer on June 18, 2006, 12:10:32 am
It seems like WMC's modification was not backwards compatible... Changing +Override: YES to +Override: true fixes the issue... And as i usually run the game in window mode its rather easy - with for example irfanview - just to paste the new pics as soon as you have taken them.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Mars on June 18, 2006, 01:04:39 am
That worked, thanks.

Here are the results I'm getting so far
(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4927/hecatesmall8bf.png)
Any better than the original?
(http://www.freespace2.com/images/ship_hecate/smpic.jpg)

Once again, is 320X240 too big? As a JPEG the Hecate is 25kB
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Wanderer on June 18, 2006, 02:12:48 am
Well... i think 320 x 240 is just fine for the viewers.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: WMCoolmon on June 18, 2006, 02:47:25 am
Edit (again):Ugh, minor problem. Anyone know how to script in the ability to take screenshots? I suppose I could just paste from clipboard, never mind

Look for a "screenshots" folder, they should be stored in there. Or, just do a general search for "screen*.*" and see if the newest ones are the ones you took.

First, the image you posted isn't a PNG...it's a BMP file with the .png extension. Second, a JPG with 60% compression (Going by the IrfanView slider) should be decent enough, and makes the pic take up less than 5kb. You can probably vary it some for the ship, overall, I'd say that 5-10 KB for a preview pic is just fine.

There isn't a way to directly store a screenshot via script, but if searching doesn't help turn up the old screenshots, you could try moving the script to a different screen. Changing "$State: GS_STATE_INITIAL_PLAYER_SELECT" to "$State: GS_STATE_TECH_MENU" will replace the techlab with the ship viewer, and by that point game screenshots would definitely be working.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Mars on June 18, 2006, 02:57:08 am
Edit (again):Ugh, minor problem. Anyone know how to script in the ability to take screenshots? I suppose I could just paste from clipboard, never mind

Look for a "screenshots" folder, they should be stored in there. Or, just do a general search for "screen*.*" and see if the newest ones are the ones you took.

No, it doesn't create screenshots there, that's the problem

First, the image you posted isn't a PNG...it's a BMP file with the .png extension.

That's weird, I uploaded a BMP to imageshack... I don't know why it says it's a PNG now

Second, a JPG with 60% compression (Going by the IrfanView slider) should be decent enough, and makes the pic take up less than 5kb. You can probably vary it some for the ship, overall, I'd say that 5-10 KB for a preview pic is just fine.

I'll aim for that then

There isn't a way to directly store a screenshot via script, but if searching doesn't help turn up the old screenshots, you could try moving the script to a different screen. Changing "$State: GS_STATE_INITIAL_PLAYER_SELECT" to "$State: GS_STATE_TECH_MENU" will replace the techlab with the ship viewer, and by that point game screenshots would definitely be working.

I'll try that tomarrow (or in 3 minutes as the case may be.)
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Mars on June 18, 2006, 03:01:59 am
Quote
There isn't a way to directly store a screenshot via script, but if searching doesn't help turn up the old screenshots, you could try moving the script to a different screen. Changing "$State: GS_STATE_INITIAL_PLAYER_SELECT" to "$State: GS_STATE_TECH_MENU" will replace the techlab with the ship viewer, and by that point game screenshots would definitely be working.

Nope, it still doesn't take screenshots
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Fury on June 19, 2006, 04:51:23 am
Instead of the cumbersome ftp-access, we have now enabled image uploads in the wiki. Can you please test it? We'd appreciate if someone could track down the pages that have images in them that were previously uploaded to the ftp-account, and update the pages accordingly. I'd like to delete that ftp-account including the folder. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Wanderer on June 19, 2006, 05:58:50 am
Uploading functions nicely :yes:
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Mars on June 19, 2006, 06:05:52 am
You didn't take those with the script, did you? Cause if you did, it's way beyond me

How are you getting env mapping?

Nevermind brain went *click*
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Wanderer on June 19, 2006, 07:25:13 am
I took those with the script.. And env mapping.. well it seems to be using the envmapping of my own test mission
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Shade on June 19, 2006, 10:03:27 am
Works perfectly, thanks a lot :)

[Edit] Muahaha, you started a flood by allowing uploads. The wiki is already starting to look much prettier.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: WMCoolmon on June 20, 2006, 01:37:07 am
I used the shipimage template to add the objecttypes screenshot that I posted here to the article (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Objecttypes.tbl) on it. There's probably a proper image template I'm missing here,  but I'm not well-acquainted enough with the wiki to know what that's called or if it exists.

Does anyone else feel that the screenshot makes the article more interesting/easier to understand, or should I take it back down?
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Wanderer on June 20, 2006, 02:10:28 am
You can always use the normal wiki image thing... that is stuff described in here (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Images_and_other_uploaded_files) or like i used it with Containers in FSwiki (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Containers)
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Fury on June 20, 2006, 02:14:39 am
[Edit] Muahaha, you started a flood by allowing uploads. The wiki is already starting to look much prettier.
Looks like it indeed. :) Just as long as the upload feature is not abused, we'll allow it. Can you guys give me a heads up when I can delete the old ftp account including the upload folder? Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Shade on June 20, 2006, 04:44:27 pm
Working my way through all the articles atm. to save all the old images. Once I've got them all I'll upload, update, and let you know so you can delete the old ones.

[Edit] Surprisingly few images left with the ships already updated (and beautifully so - great pics guys :)) by Mars and Wanderer. Anyway, I think I' ve been through all the articles now, and all the remaining images should be switched to uploaded versions. If anything I missed breaks when you delete the ftp folder, I'll just have to recapture those ones and add them in.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Fury on July 14, 2006, 09:54:16 am
:wtf: Some people have been busy, there are about 450 images uploaded to the wiki images folder. :D
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Shade on July 14, 2006, 10:18:18 am
450? :wtf: I'm fairly sure there aren't much more than 200 images in use on the wiki. I get a sneaking suspicion that MediaWiki may be playing a trick on you, perhaps by generating permanent thumbnails for each image and storing them there? That would explain the number at least.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Fury on July 14, 2006, 10:28:05 am
Ah, apparently Gnome's Nautilus file manager counts folders too.
Title: Re: Image space?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 14, 2006, 10:32:35 am
Wow thats a lot of folders for only 200 images...