Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Fineus on November 14, 2005, 01:02:39 pm
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A mate of mine is currently sending me some screenshots of his system running X3. It looks spectacular and I wouldn't be here if I didn't have a love for space games, so I wondered if anyone here had given it a go? Is it any good?
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I am a big X2 junkie. I have played it ever since I got it with my XFX graphics card I bought about 2 years ago. I had been looking forward to this sequel ever since they announced it way back last January. The screenshots made me drool and I thought it was going to be so cool.
I payed 56$ to get a copy of X3 early from Europe at gogamer. When it arrived at my doorstep thanks to Fedex overnight shipping I frantically opened the package and proceeded to install it(all 6 CDs). To be perfectly honest I have been VERY disappointed so far. I will start from the beginning. First impressions: the intro movie sucked. There is no other way to put it. Poor voice acting and video quality. All along at first I kept telling myself "oh, a game can still be good without a good intro...after all look at freespace 2" and witheld further judgement until later. I proceeded to the main menu and got a CTD, and after a second try the same thing happened. Ugh. I went and downloaded the patch and the problem was fixed. I then started a new game and I discovered to my great dismay that my ship did not have a cockpit. To make matters worse the interface on the screen was one of the worst and blockiest that I have ever seen before. This is doubtlessly one of the side effects of the console neutering that X3 underwent about 2 months before release. I continued playing. I then discovered to my horror that they had recycled most of the X2 graphics and sounds in some way, shape, form or fashion. Speech was still not synchronized with the graphics. The list goes on and on. My biggest complaint, however, was the performance hit. Here are my comps specs:
AMD X2 4800+ @ 2.74 Ghz
1536 mb of DDR @ 433mhz
BFG GF 7800GT @ 550mhz
SATA, RAID, the whole shibang
I have one of the most advanced computers that you can buy right now, performance should simply not be an issue. After about 3 hours of playing (and several CTDs), a broken story, and interface annoyances I closed the game and never have opened it since.
I never have been so disappointed about a game before. I have been looking forward to this game for nearly an year and I feel egosoft has really let me down. The XBOX neutering and them trying to kick this thing out the door before it was ready were probably most responsible. Boo hoo.
However....
The graphical quality, withe exception of the GUI and console interface, is one of the best I have seen in a long time. I do believe that after they patch this game up real well it could turn out to be real great. The same thing happened to X2 when it came out to a certain extent.
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Sadly, it sounds like they didn't learn from all of the problems with X2. I'm disappointed, but not surprised. The X series could be great, but it keeps tripping over itself.
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I think it is worth mentioning that people with Radeon 9550 Pros can run the game great, on low settings with 1024x768 resolution. These days a 7800 gt is only about 150% the card that a 9550 is (guess alert!). Is it really worth expecting that the game will run great on the higher resolutions, where there is twice as much to be rendered, plus the higher settings in general? I just don't think the technology is there to run the game on full settings, yet. When there are cards 3 times as powerful as that 9550 Pro on the market, talk to me again about the full settings. Besides, for a user with 7800 gt, what is slow? Is it 15 FPS (what I consider slow), or 40 FPS? The other thing to question is if the game likes overclocked cards. FEAR, for example, doesn't like overclocked cards. My card (x800xl) runs that game slower OC than factory.
Take this all with a grain of salt as I really don't know wth I'm talking about, and don't own the game yet. ;)
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payed 56$ to get a copy of X3 early from Europe at gogamer
And it turned out to be a waste of money. I hope you learned your lesson about buying new games. :p
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Bought x3 yesterday. There are new patches out which deal with some of the problems, though, I'll agree they shouldn't have been there in the first place.
First impressions are quite impressive, even if they send my 6600 into spasms with all the shaders, first job is to turn those off from the start menu ;) 6600's are notoriously poor at post-process effects such as glow, I'm still trying to find a way to disable that.
The game itself plays in a similar way to X, The ships are better designed, and have a lot more detail, and once you turn the Shaders off, it runs a lot lot smoother. The game itself is quite interesting, trading is more complex than it used to be, and you can now build station complexes by joining several of your stations together.
I think Egosoft are a bit silly in the fact that this is now their 3rd X-release that required a whole load of repair to things that were obvious, not minor, hidden bugs, but really glaring gameplay ones. But still, the game is good, it's no Freespace 2 in the combat section, and you have to be a bit careful with the controls. As usual the campaign seems a bit weak, better just to play it like Elite and build your own empire.
Anyway, is it worth the money? I've only played it for a few hours so-far, so I really couldn't say, it seems a lot lot deeper and more involved than the other 2, so may have more lasting value.
Edit :
(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/X3-1.jpg)
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I think it is worth mentioning that people with Radeon 9550 Pros can run the game great, on low settings with 1024x768 resolution. These days a 7800 gt is only about 150% the card that a 9550 is (guess alert!).
At lower resolutions and without FSAA and aniso, you're about right, though a bit too conservative. Using UT2k4 as an example, a 9600 Pro (a bit faster than a 9550) can pull off 98 FPS at 1024x768, while a 6800 Ultra (should be about the same as a 7800GT) pulls off 157. When you go to higher resolutions (1280x1024), the lead becomes more pronounced, passing twice as fast. With 4x FSAA and 8x Aniso at 1280x1024, it's no contest, with the 9600 Pro outputting 29FPS and the 6800 Ultra outputting 135FPS.
Basically, high end cards run about the same at low resolutions and settings, but as you turn on settings and raise resolutions, they easily surpass low and midrange cards.
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* looks at yubyub*
*looks at yubyub's signature*
Maeg?! Is that you? :D
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The X series so far had a terrible ship balance issue.
You couldn't scratch a heavy fighter in a light one..the ship speeds and firepower and everything needed a big fixing.
don't know if it has been fixed in X3, but I got one word for you - STARFORCE! Keep clear of it...
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Theres about a 2-size gap, so M1's can, with effort take out M3's, however it is rare, and hard work, the game acknowledges that. Attacking a Battleship is now suicide in non-capital ships, they have Multi-Gigawatt shielding. I don't like the external docking feature that much, I feel too vulnerable parked like that. Also, the trade interface is more confusing imo, though I will probs get used to it.
Still getting used to stuff atm, and earning cash, but so far, it plays and feels very very similar to the last two X games. I will probably see more once I leave the local area though :)
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is there something for those who have a mercenary streak and just wants to blow the everlasting crap out of everything around oneself, and get paid for it?
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Well, the option is accounted for, but in such a way as it is almost impossible to survive for long by doing so. It's not very well supported simply because the play-areas are very small in X, so you cannot commit a crime without the authorities knowing about it.
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* looks at yubyub*
*looks at yubyub's signature*
Maeg?! Is that you?
Nope... I hadn't even noticed that Maeg had that as his title until AFTER I signed up with this.
<-- Is just yubyub, tester/co-storywriter for Pathways and notorious lurker on HLP
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Cheers for the feedback guys. Seems like it's a pretty mixed bag but with some negatives I just can't ignore. I think this is definitely a "try before I buy" scenario. Plus my computer just doesn't have the graphical power to cope with X3 as it should be played.
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Keep the feedback coming. Since reading this thread, I'm actually heavily tempted to buy this game.
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Well, the option is accounted for, but in such a way as it is almost impossible to survive for long by doing so. It's not very well supported simply because the play-areas are very small in X, so you cannot commit a crime without the authorities knowing about it.
is it like "here's your target, destroy/capture it, and we'll give you money"?
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Cheers for the feedback guys. Seems like it's a pretty mixed bag but with some negatives I just can't ignore. I think this is definitely a "try before I buy" scenario. Plus my computer just doesn't have the graphical power to cope with X3 as it should be played.
It has Starforce. No matter how good the game it, it just isn't worth it as long as it has Starforce.
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wait. it the game worth it or not? I'm not seein a direct answer...
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Starforce = don't buy the game, regardless of how good it is. Wait a few months for a no-Starforce version.
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It's not a question you can answer really, I've been playing for several days and barely scratched the surface. Making money is a very very slow process at first, an Argon Buster is not the worlds largest trade vehicle :(
I have had the game crash only once on me since installing the 2 patches, which is good, but a warning...The game is VERY involving, you'll get so hooked on earning enough cash for new shields are a ship actually big enough to do decent trading in that it sucks your evenings into oblivion ;)
It's far from unplayable now, as long as you install the patches and turn down the graphics (I'm moving into combat, so this is a must for me). However, if you have played any of the X'series before it is the same game. This is not really X3, as 'X polished twice'. The galaxy is bigger with more ships, but don't expect innovations on the gameplay side of it. They've tried adding 'arcade' elements to the storyline, which I've hardly touched.
I personally could just sit and watch the trade model in action all night, the AI now doesn't let stations sit around for half the game with no stock, traders will now actively seek out good deals etc. For a non-MMO is does an excellent job of simulating an economy.
Anyway, somehow, it's hooked me, I want a Mercury so I can go do some decent trades, and I'm going to kit out my Buster for anti-rat, I think one of the fastest ways of making money is to scare a rat out of his ship, repair and sell it, but the rats are a lot tougher than the other 2 games.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it is 'Starforce' type material, but, if you like Unreal Tournament or Halo, then this will seem slow and boring and pointless, if you like Sim City or Eve then you'll probably enjoy X3, it's long-drawn out game, but it IS unique and very engaging :)
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I ahev and like sim city 4, is there a demo?
It seems to me that this game consists of Freespace's Gameplay and freelancers trading system..
good combo!
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Well, it doesn't really play like either. It is a trading Engine with thousands of AI components moving stuff around. The game is sort of built over and around that trade engine. The gameplay itself has little 'feel' really compared to FS2 or Freelancer, even if it is much much prettier, it's more like 'Eve Online' with lots of flying between gates and checking on prices. The main focus of this game is Trade, theres no getting away from it, combat happens, but the long-term money will mostly come from trade.
Usually, you leave combat up to your autopilot, which is a lot more profficient at it than I, the best thing about X is the fact you can, if you can afford it, buy multiple ships and form them into attack wings. In X2 I had a Battleship, Carrier and two wings of 30 Nova as defence escort, though I usually kept them docked because of Framerate issues. You can automate ships you own through upgrading their computers, so fitting trade upgrades to a hauler can, for example, stop it from buying Ore from the nearest source and start it buying for the best price within 3 stargates etc.
Once you are rich enough, you can even buy factories as kits and deploy them, once they are stocked with resources, they can build stuff to sell. The system is cyclic, so almost every type of factory builds something another type of factory uses.
The graphics, whilst looking great, can be slightly jerky, and the control system is not designed around combat, the menus are very deep, and you jump between ship control and cursor mode by right-clicking, left clicking is shoot in ship-control mode and select in cursor mode, this can lead to confusion ;)
All in all, it's a good game, very pretty, very very slow at first, I recommned you start in easy mode, which gives you a hauler and 100K, though, if you've never played X2 before, expect a steep learning curve.
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seems VERY cool! yea the cursor/fighter control thing is in freelancer, except you hit the space bar instead of right clicking..
is it really that hard to learn it?
and is there a demo?
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Alas, there is no demo to the game, and as far as the learning curve is concerned, it's steep, theres a lot to remember, but once you get the hang of what prices to look for etc, it's not as bad as Imperium Galactica or Masters of Orion for complexity and micromanagement.
But, the game IS slow, a lot of it is travelling to various sectors, checking prices etc and your money crawls up, particuarly at first, it's much faster once you have a Hauler, but still hard to get hold of eqiupment for it, which isn't cheap. Even a hauler will only get you 20K ish per run, and stations are around the million mark upwards, so it certainly has longevity, I'm just a little concerned it's too much longevity ;)
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Ok I bought this game and well, I was messing around with it for like a week. I am having a LOT of trouble with the controls. I am also unsure of how to check prices for stations while I am flying. I read about the best buy and best selling locators, but I cant get them to work. Anyone have some info on this?
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You need a Trade Extension first, that will let you check the prices of any station in the same system as the ship you are checking from.
Best Buy and Best Sale units are pretty much a redundancy in my experience, you use them at first, but once you get a station, it's pretty irrelevant.
The controls are a nightmare in X3, since you can only open one window at a time and cannot access other buttons whilst that window is open, so sometimes you have to go three or four layers into a menu whilst being unable to control your ship :(
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I have that on my argon buster when I start, so I transfered it to the Mercury freighter that I own, but I identify the stations using the commands through the pilot menu but the prices listed are jsut questions marks, even if I am in the same system... Why is this?
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That's...odd...Are you using the latest patch?
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I never really got into the X-series.
They had a lot of potential (I'm really starved for an Elite-style game!), but the interface and handling of the ships just killed the games for me.
Freelancer was surprisingly nice to play; I even got over my initial revultion of the mouse-controlled flight ;)
The biggest problem with the game is that it was *too* combat oriented; There wasn't even close to the variety of missions that you could get in Elite/Frontier, and all missions you could do were always in one system!
That might have been a good thing 'tho; Freelancer *REALLY* needed Frontier's Star Dreamer Time Control....!
X is a lot better in terms of things to do; It's only let down is its interface...
They need to borrow elements from an RTS like Homeworld or something... (Only not as cluttered as Homeworld...)
Mmm... that'd be a cool multiplayer mode actually - One of you commands a large cruiser with a Homeworld-RTS-style interface, and your mates fly the fighter squadron on board, and have a Freespace 2-style interface :D
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Heh, apart from the first person perspective, you've pretty much described Eve Online ;)
Yeah, I had the same Problem with X, it is not nearly as good as a modern day Elite derirative should be.
Edit : I'm still playing around with ideas for a game along these lines if I ever learn C++, something that is not as combat orientated as Freelancer and doesn't try to be all singing all dancing like X. You can get away with a certain degree of randomness in a universe if it's done correctly ;)
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That's...odd...Are you using the latest patch?
Havent played the game without it...
I'll play around with it tomorrow and then if I still have trouble, i'll go to Egosofts IRC chat-like system and ask for help there...