Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Thor on November 16, 2005, 10:37:16 pm

Title: Starship Design
Post by: Thor on November 16, 2005, 10:37:16 pm
alright, I have a question for all you starship designers out there.  How do you go about designing your vessel, what considerations do you take?  I'm trying to figure out where to start with some designs.  so i figured I'd ask in here, and see what some of the masters have to say....any tips or suggestions from start to finish would be appreciated.  doesn't have to be for FS designs only either.  prefered not actually.  This could be useful to everyone, so i hope you have lots to say.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Taristin on November 16, 2005, 10:49:42 pm
I wing it.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Thor on November 16, 2005, 10:54:13 pm
lol that was full of insight! :p
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: WMCoolmon on November 16, 2005, 11:12:55 pm
I wing it.

That's horrible. :p
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Singh on November 17, 2005, 01:34:34 am
Mostly just winging it here too

>_>

<_<
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Unknown Target on November 17, 2005, 05:43:40 am
If it's a semi-realistic design, I try and think of, like, where the thrusters would go, or how it would maneuver, or where the radar, engines, and cockpit are..

If it's not a semi-realistic design, then I just make it look cool :D But I usually sketch out a concept beforehand, to get the general idea of the model :)
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: FireCrack on November 17, 2005, 09:07:06 am
If it's a semi-realistic design, I try and think of, like, where the thrusters would go, or how it would maneuver, or where the radar, engines, and cockpit are..

If it's not a semi-realistic design, then I just make it look cool :D But I usually sketch out a concept beforehand, to get the general idea of the model :)

More or less what I do... not that i make all new models that often.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Ferret on November 17, 2005, 10:11:07 am
Think of a basic idea and go from there.
Uh, wing it.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Galemp on November 17, 2005, 12:56:22 pm
I'm observant; I look at things around me, ordinary objects and patterns, and occasionally an idea pops out at me. I make a few sketches, decide on a general shape, then work out how I would build it from primitives. Then I do the work in a modeling program and take things around from there.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 17, 2005, 02:25:37 pm
Occasionally I make concept stuff out of Legos. :P

There is a degree of function-to-form, but I generally only assign a function to the model after I'm more then half-done with it.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Unknown Target on November 17, 2005, 02:35:34 pm
I think it'd be cool to set up a school of starship design, with lots of different concepts, models, etc. I've looked all over the web for concepts and designs of starships to get ideas for my own, or get ways to design mine, but I usually just come up with Star Trek or some crappy Bryce-5 rendered shiny snowball ships.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Nuke on November 17, 2005, 04:41:03 pm
i usually hav a loose idea in my head about what shape it should be. i tend to start at the frong of the ship and work my way back, but not always. i like to keep the engines neer the center of gravity, i see alot of ships out there that would do whirlybirds cause there engines are too high or too low. i also keep uv mapping in mind when tweaking surface countours. hard lines make good definition of the boarders of a uv group. if you are gonna use a mirror tool, use it after you map out uv space, or it will take twice as long to uv. and one more technique i use it assigning a different material to each uv group, which makes them alot easyer to select in truespace. oh and stay away from booleans. when i want to do a trickey boolean i usually make a copy of my model and do the boolean on the coppy, then manually copy the positions on the new virtices into the old model, it takes longer but spares you the bad geometry.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Thor on November 17, 2005, 08:38:41 pm
I definatly like the idea of a starship guide being built.  Cause when i looked on the net there was nothing.  Thanks for the tips.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: TrashMan on November 18, 2005, 04:50:55 am
How...

Wel...erm..first I de4cise what type of ship it is...then if it will be symetric or asymetric.
then I generally just start with a box or a cylinder and work around several possibilites (lots of objects).
Once I'm happy with one combination, I stick with it.

Oh..and taking into consideration the fireing cones, weapon placements and things like that help.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Nuke on November 18, 2005, 06:43:19 am
i usually wing the gun placement in my ships. i design something that looks spaceworthy and i attach weapon points with ducktape and bailing wire so to speak.

really theres no way to make a guide, it seems everyone has there own little style and technique. best bet is to studdy sci-fi designs and maybe a little of nasa's work. watch alot of documentries on experimental aircraft. it should all clue you in to proper system layout. as for how to come up with your own design, its best to also come up with your own way of making them. im sure a google search would turn up a good tutorial for modeling a space ship in whatever software you have. should learn the how to in no time. but to develop your own style takes much longer. make a few models, no matter how crappy keep them saved on your hd. helps get your ideas flowing. then when you feel more comfortable, try to make a complete model. it worked for me. i eventually ended up revisiting my old ideas and they eventually became really good models.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: MetalDestroyer on November 18, 2005, 07:09:55 am
I definatly like the idea of a starship guide being built.  Cause when i looked on the net there was nothing.  Thanks for the tips.

I agree, I was drawing some cruiser/destroyer design last week and I feel pain to do them in a very short time.
A short artwork with the minimal detail, took me 1 hour :sweat:

For others :
How could you wing starship ? O_o
Any exemple would be nice. For now, I always use reference to Star Wars/Freespace 2/X3 Reunion.
But, i would be enjoy if i could make my own starship.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Singh on November 18, 2005, 07:48:59 am
Winging it is easy.....just....'wing' it, i.e, improvise on the go....
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: MicroPsycho on November 18, 2005, 06:23:04 pm
I started with basic 2-D shape, as I can't draw/sketch worth a damn, then I 3-D-ize it into some for of a design and evolve the design as I go along....so yeah, I wing it.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Vengence on November 19, 2005, 09:10:50 pm
Hmm... Well, when i design stuff I just like to have fun. Meaning some freaky, flashy, or just simply sharp designs go around. For some reason... I like wings with lots of protruding stuff. When it comes to capital ships, guns guns and more guns with my signature Blue and White color scheme!

I start out drawing a concept and practice the drawing in phases I call 'Generations'. For instance: first concept 'First Generation', second concept 'Second Generation' ect ect. Once I got the overall design plotted I model. Once, twice, until I'm satisfied. Some designs took me up to 4 remakes to be satisfactory. Btw, creativity and originality go along very well and stand out very well.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Raptor on December 12, 2005, 08:55:37 am
Mind if i drop in? ;)

Personally, I mainly follow the 'Function dictates Form' school.  I generally start with a basic, rough idea of how it looks and would act in my head, then I do dozens of sketches trying to find the right form.  Then it's a case of turning those rough sketches into 3D objects.  Quite a bit is done on the fly however, since things that can't been seen in a 2D sketch show up plain as day in 3D...

Certain things crop up often though:

1) Balanced firepower - Generally this means both port and starboard flanks have equal weapon coverage (hence all my ships are symetical)

2) Centred thrust - I took an engineering degree, and trust me, you don't want the thrust vector out of line with the COG of your ship.  Causes all kinds of problems :ick:  This, plus the above, is the reason I started my own verision of the HTL Orion (that and I'm not fond of Bob's one...( :nervous::shaking: )

3) Looks good - debatable this one.  I understand that everyone has thier own tastes.  For me, Terran is sleek, angular and hard edges; Vasudan is organic and flowing; Shivan is just alien, generally spiky, constructs from the depths of ones nightmares...

4) Purpose - Nearly every part has a function of some sort, even those as vague as the wings on my 'Trogen/Star Rider' transport/gunship, used for atmspheraic operations... at least for Terran ships :nervous:

Fighters/bombers and transports to me are flat, while cap ships are tall... not sure if that explains what I mean...

Basically, everyone has their own style.  You just need to find yours.  My advice: Go play :pimp:
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: aldo_14 on December 12, 2005, 09:37:10 am
I just use my imagination.  And I avoid the box-with-guns syndrome as much as possible. 

I always start with a general concept purpose, though.  And normally work through anywhere between 1 and 10 concept drawings.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: StratComm on December 12, 2005, 11:02:19 am
I usually wing it too, more or less.  Though I do have a tendency to start with a shape I like and turn that into a ship.  The point on centered [overall] thrust vectors is an important one; a ship with engines all on top doesn't make a ton of sense.  But I'm not opposed to spreading engines around, so long as their size-weighted average location is somewhere near the centerline.  Finally, asymmetry is great if you can make it work and make it balanced; top-to-bottom, left-to-right, whatever; there should be approximately equal volume on each side of a potential symmetry axis, even if the ship itself is not symmetrical.  There are one or two exceptions in stock Freespace ships (the Orion, but only for its engines; it's centered roughly by volume already).  All general rules of thumb, of course, but I find them helpful.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 12, 2005, 11:48:04 am
Some of the designs I've been most pleased with replicate the basic hullform of other ships, then start altering. Things ranging from the ASS Reliant in Starlancer (my current project owes much to the Reliant...speaking of which I need to reinstall Starlancer and watch the Reliant's death cutscene again) to X-Com 2: TFTD's Barracuda are the sources of inspiration for many of my models.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Galemp on December 12, 2005, 05:35:00 pm
...the ASS Reliant in Starlancer

You might want to consider changing that prefix.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Thor on December 12, 2005, 05:51:44 pm
lol indeed

good points.  I hadn't thought of the engine thing, although it makes sense now.  I really need to get doing some design work soon.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: FireCrack on December 12, 2005, 06:48:53 pm
Arsenic Sulphide...
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 12, 2005, 08:23:10 pm

You might want to consider changing that prefix.

I can't help it if it's correct. Of course, I should have known better then to trust in the lack of juvenile behavior here, but hey...
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Carl on December 12, 2005, 10:56:41 pm
i fit various shapes together in my head.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Flipside on December 13, 2005, 06:19:52 am
I tend to make a Basic shape and fiddle till I'm happy, for FS stuff I 'tend' to stick to canon, even the Aesir have a sort of 'canon' that they need to stick to, so think of things like how they will look alongside an in-game ship.
If you're designing for yourself and not FS2, then just try to get inside the head of who you are designing for. Terrans are easiest, you have the least distance to travel, so just use common sense for size of weapons/ammo etc. Aliens are harder, it's easy to take the Star Trek approach and just emphasise one part of Terran design, but it's actually  a lot more rewarding to try and think beyond that ;)
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: IPAndrews on December 13, 2005, 06:24:39 am
I base my entire ship design on functionality. Which means my ships generally look rubbish.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Flipside on December 13, 2005, 06:29:55 am
Well, NASA aren't going to spend several million just so their latest probe can have useless swept-back aerodynamics, I don't see the GTVA mentality being all that different to be honest ;)
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Omniscaper on December 13, 2005, 11:53:31 am
When I design a ship, I make sure that it reflects its capabilities. Sleekness for speed, chunkiness for strength... or just big....

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Taristin on December 13, 2005, 12:40:06 pm
.....If this turns into one of those threads, I will lock it :p
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Col. Fishguts on December 13, 2005, 12:52:04 pm
But if that doesn't look like one, what does ?
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: knn on December 13, 2005, 01:03:21 pm
Falice. Strange name for a ship
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Taristin on December 13, 2005, 02:50:46 pm
But if that doesn't look like one, what does ?

It was supposed to look like that. That's his point. But if we get into another discussion on how every ship looks phallic, I will lock this thread.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Col. Fishguts on December 13, 2005, 03:40:22 pm
It was supposed to look like that. That's his point. But if we get into another discussion on how every ship looks phallic, I will lock this thread.

Ah, I thought it was a genuine model.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: Mongoose on December 13, 2005, 05:10:17 pm
When I design a ship, I make sure that it reflects its capabilities. Sleekness for speed, chunkiness for strength... or just big....
Oh man, how much does this deserve a new custom title? :lol:
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: aldo_14 on December 14, 2005, 06:15:07 am
When I design a ship, I make sure that it reflects its capabilities. Sleekness for speed, chunkiness for strength... or just big....

Designed to penetrate behind enemy lines?

(oh god, please forgive me.........)

Um (in a vain attempt to save myself), I'd also add existing organics/ objects as good design influences.  Provided you don't copy them completely, of course, but use the idea of their shape, etc, for helping plan a form.  I'm not actually massively bothered about designing practiciality; there are 2km long insterstellar warships, after all, so there's a certain unrealistic aspect to them anyways.
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: IPAndrews on December 14, 2005, 08:15:26 am
What is the purpose of those ribs?
Title: Re: Starship Design
Post by: aldo_14 on December 14, 2005, 09:54:51 am
What is the purpose of those ribs?

For her pleasure, of course.