Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Roanoke on November 18, 2005, 03:57:54 pm
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P4 2 gig, GeForce 4 MX, 1 gig SDRAM, Win XP
Whaddya reckon ? I'm super bored of PC games and I reckon it's cos I haven't played anything new (probably) since the Doom3/DeusEX2/Thief3 releases (and they were x-box). That was the last time I was really arsed about a release, that and Halo2. Haven't even tried HL2.
Seems lke ages since I could buy a new game and know for sure it wouldn't be a prob meeting the specs.
Can't decide wether to get 'tother PC or a PS3 or New Xbox
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It's fairly well outdated with a limited upgrade path, but its up to you what to do.
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Just upgrading the backbone of your system will yield performance benefits greater than just upgrading the videocard and processor. You'd definitely would want to get into DDR at least for your RAM, and look at either the new PCI-X or stay with AGP8X. I bet the FSB on that board is dog-slow, and newer boards would have faster overall operating speeds. You're looking at upgrading the Motherboard, RAM, processor, and videocard just to get into a decent system with your configuration you have. Plus, new motherboards will have new technologies built right in such as onboard SATA, and onboard sound that doesnt suck (a board with Creative audio for example) Regular ol SDRAM is hella expensive, and DDR is dirt cheap today, which might make you feel a bit better. I know it's a lot to upgrade, but when I purchased my new system over my old K7 266FSB to my new K8T800 it was like night and day. Even for just day-to-day tasks.
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Doubt if I can be arsed upgrading it if it means replacing > or < everything.
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Probably better to save up and get a whole new rig, rather than try to upgrade it. Which will obviously be a fair bit more expensive than any new console. Perhaps go for the console first (wait for the PS3 and Revolution to be released, and then there should be a nice little price war to drive the costs down), but save a little bit on the side for an eventual new PC? 'S what I'd do. Your choice though.
There are plenty of awesome older games that will run perfectly on you current machine, of course - check through some "top 100" lists or whatever, and grab anything that catches your eye. :yes:
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You could get a nice boost by just upgrading the video card to something like a 9600 pro, whcih are less than $80 these days. I guess for anything more significant than that you would be looking at replacing everything.
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"Why it's the PCI Express made the trouble. PCI, PCI, put the vid-card in SLI, in SLI the PCI Express in an air-tight static-free package made the AGP bus obsolete, obsolete!"
"Obsolete! Obsolete! Obsolete!"
"AGP bus went out the window with the GeforceFX 6800 card...changed the approach of a l33t hardcore gaming geek, made it pretty hard-"
"No it didn't, no it didn't, but ya gotta know the retailers!"
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Uhhh.... right. :wtf:
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"Why it's the PCI Express made the trouble. PCI, PCI, put the vid-card in SLI, in SLI the PCI Express in an air-tight static-free package made the AGP bus obsolete, obsolete!"
"Obsolete! Obsolete! Obsolete!"
"AGP bus went out the window with the GeforceFX 6800 card...changed the approach of a l33t hardcore gaming geek, made it pretty hard-"
"No it didn't, no it didn't, but ya gotta know the retailers!"
There is quite a PCI express fanboy brigade on the Anandtech video forum arguing exactly this. A thread pops up about it every ten days or so. :D The 6800 cards were all originally AGP though.
For me it just means being forced to spend $125 on a new motherboard soon, since I want one of the new video cards. :p Although it's just as well since my current one has been giving me some trouble and I want a better overclocker too.
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I'd say the video card is the most important upgrade, but since your mainboard isn't PCI Express you probably are better off replacing the whole thing.
Your RAM probably is DDR, so you could probably keep it and put it in a new system. I'm guessing the person who suggested otherwise hasn't heard of SDRAM (Synchronous Dynamic RAM) of which Single Data Rate and Double Data Rate RAM are subtypes.
With DDR2 gaining in popularity and decreasing in cost, it's definitely a consideration if you decide to buy a new Pentium-based system. I'm starting to wish I'd waited for AMD-compatible mainboards to use DDR2 (probably won't be for a few more months, until their new line of CPUs comes out; M2, or something) because my PC4400 DDR is faulty and needs replacing anyway.
What speed is your RAM? I'm guessing PC2700 (333MHz) or PC3200 (400MHz).
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I think you need a whole new rig man.
But don't forget about the power supply. I'm not sure what your current one is, but I doubt it could handle a new (power hungry) video card and a new Pentium/Athlon.
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Nice Music Man reference, WMCoolmon.
Don't even try upgrading this rig. This is a Socket 423, which means you're limited in both processor choices and FSB. A new video card will just choke this system. I'd say wait until you start seeing games you want, then upgrade. Otherwise, there's no point in upgrading.
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If you ask me (which I'm fairly sure you wont), that machine is OK for most of today's games at moderate settings. The GeForce MX is a problem, though. 'Tis nothing more than a faster clocked GeForce2. If you want a bit of a good upgrade, get a 128MB (or even 256MB) 9600 XT, you can find them at most online retailers for less than $100. The rest of your system wouldn't help much for upgrading. You have enough RAM for what the rest of your machine can handle, so no point upgrading there. My machine is similar to yours (except with an FX5500), and I can get a rock solid 30FPS on Half-Life 2 at 1024x768x32 w/ 2xAA and high texture settings. Not the best picture in the world, but definately gets the job done.
As for buying a whole new rig, I wouldn't recommend it right now. DDR2 hasn't matured yet, Socket939 is being phased out, and new technologies are just around the corner. I figure your machine with a 9600XT would last another 6 months at least, so long as you don't push it too hard.
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except with an FX5500
The Dustbuster FX? :D
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The dustbuster was the 5800 Ultra I believe.
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Oh Lord...the dustbuster card. I will never forget that. Arctic cooling makes heatsinks and fans about that same size which are damn near silent. I've got one on my 9800 XT. But, for goodness sake dont buy a 5000 series nvidia. They're notorious for slow performance in AA modes compared to the 9600-9800 series of ATI cards. That's the deciding factor that made me upgrade to an ATI card in the first place. Then three months later the 6000 series nvidia cards came out and AA and AF were no longer a problem on those cards.
Hell, if you're not concerned about running everything in DirectX9 shaders, I'd opt for a Geforce 4400 or higher, if they're still around. I had one for two years and it rocked hard. Plays Vampire: the masquerade with semi-acceptable FPS on my sis's garden-variety machine.
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Well, I've got the money for a PC but if I buy it it'll put my in a tight position maybe 6 months down the line. Hmmn, decisions.....
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"Why it's the PCI Express made the trouble. PCI, PCI, put the vid-card in SLI, in SLI the PCI Express in an air-tight static-free package made the AGP bus obsolete, obsolete!"
"Obsolete! Obsolete! Obsolete!"
"AGP bus went out the window with the GeforceFX 6800 card...changed the approach of a l33t hardcore gaming geek, made it pretty hard-"
"No it didn't, no it didn't, but ya gotta know the retailers!"
There is quite a PCI express fanboy brigade on the Anandtech video forum arguing exactly this. A thread pops up about it every ten days or so. :D The 6800 cards were all originally AGP though.
For me it just means being forced to spend $125 on a new motherboard soon, since I want one of the new video cards. :p Although it's just as well since my current one has been giving me some trouble and I want a better overclocker too.
maybe a few years ago you could get a crappy motherboard for 125...
Ive seen some nice intel 775 motherboards go for less then 90 bucks (and those are asus too)... as for AMD mobo's, they're even cheaper.... you can get a nice Nforce4 Chipset Socket 939 motherboard for about, ohh id say 75-90 dollars... and if your interested, you can get the Socket 939 with the Radeon Xpress 200 chipset, performence is about the same (nforce4 vs. Xpress 200) and the cost of the xpress 200 went down MAJORLY, so it shouldnt cost you alot of money toupgrade your entire computer....
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It's still just an added $80-120 expense for no benefit. I actually want to get a new board for several other reasons (current one has cold boot bugs, need a 300mhz HT speed to get the week 40 CABYE Opteron 146 I scored off ebay to its full 3ghz potential, and may want an SLI setup), but many people have high end AGP boards and would get nothing out of a new one, but will need a PCIE one since the current high end cards don't exist in AGP. And those with Intel 478 CPUs need to replace that as well.
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so all the new cards don't use the AGP type port ? Gotta admit I never expected that.
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There are a few, such as many Gigabyte boards, that support PCIe x16 and AGP 8x, but they have their own issues. Anyhow, for that system you have, the biggest bottleneck would be that POS GeForce MX. My suggestion of getting a 9600XT will bring your machine as far as it can go. More ram would be pointless in most cases, a faster CPU would be a waste of time, and a new motherboard would require a replacement of everything, with exception of IDE and PCI devices. Your choices are to buy a new PC (maybe $700 for a relatively decent setup), or buy a 9600XT for about $100. Considering the cost, I think the latter is the better choice.
Anyway, to break it down:
Good 430W PSU - $65
Mid-range motherboard - $90
Athlon64 Venice 3200+ - $160
256MB X800 GTO - $170
2GB PC3200 2-3-3-6 - $235
This kind of setup is for upper mid-range machines by today's standards. Also, the figures are just to get the machine up and running. No hard drives, periphreals, monitors, etc are included in these figures. This $700 could easily turn into $1000 for a complete package. I hope that clears things up.
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I'm super bored of PC games and I reckon it's cos I haven't played anything new (probably) since the Doom3/DeusEX2/Thief3 releases
Well there's your problem. Try buying some games that don't suck.
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Your system has two weak points:
The GF4 MX and the SD-Ram.
While the CPU is fine, the ram is pretty slow. I suppose you can't upgrade your systm with DDR-Ram.
Well a new gfx card would still boost your game performance a lot. I wouldn't spend too much on the system though...
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Three steps:
1. Save up $1,500-$2,000 (or the equivilant price for non-US citizens)
2. Sell your current computer for 1/4 or 1/5 what you paid for it on eBay.
3. Go on www.newegg.com to look for a new setup. $2,000 (or the equivilant price for non-US citizens) should be enough to get something at least 2x better than what you got.
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I wouldn't bother getting a Radeon 9600 XT. I have heard that the new games are really pushing that card to its limits. It had a good run though.
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There are a few, such as many Gigabyte boards, that support PCIe x16 and AGP 8x, but they have their own issues. Anyhow, for that system you have, the biggest bottleneck would be that POS GeForce MX. My suggestion of getting a 9600XT will bring your machine as far as it can go. More ram would be pointless in most cases, a faster CPU would be a waste of time, and a new motherboard would require a replacement of everything, with exception of IDE and PCI devices. Your choices are to buy a new PC (maybe $700 for a relatively decent setup), or buy a 9600XT for about $100. Considering the cost, I think the latter is the better choice.
Anyway, to break it down:
Good 430W PSU - $65
Mid-range motherboard - $90
Athlon64 Venice 3200+ - $160
256MB X800 GTO - $170
2GB PC3200 2-3-3-6 - $235
This kind of setup is for upper mid-range machines by today's standards. Also, the figures are just to get the machine up and running. No hard drives, periphreals, monitors, etc are included in these figures. This $700 could easily turn into $1000 for a complete package. I hope that clears things up.
There is no point of having that much memory unless you also have a high end video card for large texture settings in one or two newer games. A 1GB Corsair VS 2.5-3-3 pack can be had for $80 and will provide about the same performance. The video card is where the bulk of the money should be put into; a $320 7800GT is a great overall choice these days. I wish I had grabbed two of those back when you could get them even lower from a few places, around $280.
Does Gigabyte make such boards? The only one I know about is the Asrock Dual-SATA2 board, which is one of the fastest boards at stock speed but is somewhat buggy and a mediocre overclocker. There are also some Biostar and Jetway ones, but those don't have true AGP at all but an extremely slow hacked AGP running off the PCI bus.
Well there's your problem. Try buying some games that don't suck.
They aren't that bad compared to most of the other stuff we get these days. I would take DXIW over things like FEAR or HL2 any day.
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I wouldn't bother getting a Radeon 9600 XT. I have heard that the new games are really pushing that card to its limits. It had a good run though.
Somewhat of an understatement, I'd say, having tried to play FEAR on an X800XT :p
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I wouldn't bother getting a Radeon 9600 XT. I have heard that the new games are really pushing that card to its limits. It had a good run though.
sigh...its true...my baby is also showing signs of aging.
3ghz P4
MSI Mobo (too lazy to look up what one)
1gig Corsair Twin-X
1 PATA 120gig
2 SATA 160gig
Radeon 9600 XT
Audigy 2 ZS Platinum
single layer sony dvd burner
dvd player
and my baby...a Matrox RT x100 video render card
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£700 looks to get a decent base so I'm gonna hammer the savings for 6 months and buy a new 'un.
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Your system has two weak points:
The GF4 MX and the SD-Ram.
While the CPU is fine, the ram is pretty slow. I suppose you can't upgrade your systm with DDR-Ram.
Well a new gfx card would still boost your game performance a lot. I wouldn't spend too much on the system though...
As I said, he has a Socket 423, so he couldn't even upgrade to RDRAM, which is a rather horrible concept in and of itself.
Again, wait until you find games you want to play that require an upgrade. It's pointless upgrading if you only play games that would run on your old system.