Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stealth on November 20, 2005, 01:17:25 pm
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So I went to Austin the other day... visit some friends in UT. i brought this POS Pentium M 1.6 ghz, 512MB RAM laptop, which sucks. after 6 hours of trying to install WoW, and then giving up and trying to play Wc3 instead, i realized i'd wasted all my time, because the computer was too slow.
That said, i got home 6 AM Saturday morning (left Austin at 3). Woke up at 3 PM Saturday afternoon, and decided it was high time I got another computer. Started buying yesterday, and today i've got most of the parts.
This is the most powerful computer i've built to date, and i'm betting is the most powerful anyone on this forum has. Pictures posted are of the actual item i bought. What think:
-- Processor Fan
Zalman CNPS9500 LED
http://www.ccsolutionz.com/ebayimages/CPUs/Fans/Zelman.jpg
-- Motherboard
Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe
http://usa.asus.com//100/images/products/744/744_l.jpg
-- RAM
2 GB (2x1GB)PC-3500 Corsair TWINX2048-3500LLPro (RAM is designed for highest performance with the A8n32-sli deluxe, and vice-versa)
http://corsair.com/corsair/products/specs/TWINX2048-3500LLPRO.pdf
-- Video Card (DO NOT HAVE YET)
nVidia 7800GTX
-- Processor (DO NOT HAVE YET)
Athlon 64FX -55
-- OS
Windows XP Professional
-- Optical Media
2x SONY Black DVD-R (16x DVD-R, 16x DVD-ROM, 48x CD-ROM, 48x CD-R, 24x CD-RW)
http://i15.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/71/db/d5_1_b.JPG
-- Hard Drives
2x Maxtor 300 GB SATA drives in RAID 1 configuration (striped)
http://i10.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/81/78/a2_1.JPG
-- Case and Power Supply
Mid-ATX case with 600W SATA ready power supply
http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/30058001/Images/CA328BK.jpg
-- Mouse and Mouse Pad
Razer Diamondback Plasma LIMITED edition with Razer Exactmat pad
http://www.razerzone.com/store/images/plasma/plasma6.jpg?zenid=1eedd7f417d3469b26781e6f73d9584b
http://i10.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/7d/5d/01_1_b.JPG
...FTW.
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I'll be owning that in three weeks. :D
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that's what they all say ;)
Without spending a couple thousand more, i think this is probably the most powerful computer an end-user can build to date
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At least as far as games are concerned, you can change around quite a few things and make it faster for less money.
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as far as overclocking? yeah both the GPU and CPU are easily overclockable, but for now i'm just going to keep them both stock ;)
Actually i was going to go with a state of the art watercooling system, but i realized the motherboard's "Alcool" or whatever, that 'pipe' that goes from the chipset to next to the processor, relies on the processor fan to dissipate heat, so it's going to have to be fan-cooled, at least for now.
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Ummm.. is that a single core processor?
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as far as overclocking? yeah both the GPU and CPU are easily overclockable, but for now i'm just going to keep them both stock ;)
Actually i was going to go with a state of the art watercooling system, but i realized the motherboard's "Alcool" or whatever, that 'pipe' that goes from the chipset to next to the processor, relies on the processor fan to dissipate heat, so it's going to have to be fan-cooled, at least for now.
I guess you could always just replace it with a northbridge waterblock. That passive cooler is actually one of the main attractions of that board though.
Although even if you don't want to overclock, the expensive memory and FX55 aren't good choices. If you haven't already bought those things, replace them with value memory and a 3800 or 4000/150 and use the money saved to buy a second GTX.
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IFRC the FXs are single core, but seeing how stealth is going for a gaming rig anyways, he won't notice any performance gains by moving to dual core anyway, so for that application the pure raw speed of a high end single core proc is better then any dual core.
An abundence of ram never hurt anyone, and i myself am looking on jumping up tp 2gig. as for going SLI...for a pure gaming rig...do it. if the budget is hurting wait a bit, but make that an ultimate goal.
Me, i want a nice high end dual core for my edtiting purposes. :p
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Your rig can compete with mine...but thats about it. :p.
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So much penis envy in so little space. Fantastic.
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So much penis compensation in so little space. Fantastic.
Fixed it for you.
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*is quite happy with his pentium-m 1.6Ghz, 512Mb laptop*
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My new rig isn't quite the powerhouse that one is, Stealth, but it certainly pumps a lot of frames per second. I myself decided to go for dual-core goodness and you would be amazed at the difference it makes in games, since many newer ones are multithreaded.
Athlon X2 4200
Abit AN8 Ultra mainboard (not the best that money can buy, but close)
TwinX 1024MB PC4400 RAM
80GB ATA disk
200GB SATA disk
XFX GeForce 7800GTX @ approx. 450MHz, since I haven't gotten around to overclocking it yet
Antec TruPower 550W PSU
SB Live 5.1 sound
DVD+/-RW drive
The only new components are the CPU, graphics card and mainboard. I bought the RAM some months ago and it's recently turned out to be faulty, so I'm currently running 1GB single-channel PC2700.
My main reasons for upgrading from my already-pretty-damn-fast machine were noise and creativity. I wanted to build a computer than was more than a dull beige box concealing the computing equivalent of a Mercedes, and I wanted it to be relatively quiet. Note 'relatively', since the old machine had a Delta fan on the CPU pumping about 120CFM at 55dB.
About three months ago I stated my intention to build a Freespace 2-themed computer. That idea died when I actually started work on the machine, because I'm not much of an artist. Not only that, but the structural design of the new machine took up enough time. The case ended up being gloss black, and even that took 3 coats to get right.
As for the structural design...
The case is a CM Stacker. I need this monster to ensure that a) everything fits inside, b) there's room for upgrades, improvements and insane projects, and c) there was no realistic chance of it getting stolen at LAN parties. 'Insane projects' includes an upgrade from castors to tank tracks, since wheeling the thing around is somewhat difficult at the moment.
Truth be told, I've made no major structural alterations to the case. The only change I made was to add a radiator to the top. But it's not just any radiator; it's a Black Ice III Extreme.
I think these things are conventionally placed inside the front of the case, beneath the optical drives and in front of the hard drives. This is not particularly practical with the Stacker because of the armour-plated drive bay mounts, which are too tough to actually cut away to make room for the radiator.
So I bolted the radiator onto the top of the case, on its side with the three fans on the inside surface. The case's top exhaust fan was removed to allow the 1/2" tubes and fan wires to enter the case. The most time-consuming part of this was drilling the holes for the bolts in the top of the Stacker, ie. through 1mm hardened steel, with a Dremel (bought specially for the project). This is pretty much the first time I've played with any type of power tool and definitely the first time I've embarked on a major DIY project, and despite not actually planning anything it all turned out rather well. All the measurements were by eye (the case never saw a ruler) but everything fitted together perfectly. The radiator is secured so firmly it is actually possible to lift the case by it.
So now I've got a big black Stacker with a radiator on top like an off-centre fin. What else does it need? Lights. Two UV and one green. I did actually have a second green neon, but I was working on soldering the pump's power leads and I didn't notice I was leaning on the tube until it broke. After that I decided not to add the lights until everything else was working...
The fan controller from my last machine has one dead channel (I tried running that Delta at full power once, ie. 20W), but I've only got two sets of controllable fans in this one anyway. I cut the switches off the neon power supplies and wired the neons into the controller's power switches, then cut two holes in a drive bay faceplate for the orphaned switches. The two fan groups are wired into the fan controller through these switches, because most of the time I don't need the fans and the controller rheostats don't have an 'off' setting.
The fan groups are:
1) The radiator fans, usually off unless the rad is getting warm,
2) The internal fans (1 on the hard drive bays, 1 on the rear, and 1 Stacker crossflow fan), usually running at low power for the safety of the southbridge,
and the PSU has two fans in it as well. Eight fans on a watercooled machine. It's fairly correct to call this 'hybrid air/water cooling' because it's not a normal example of either.
So yes, Stealth's new machine is undoubtedly faster than mine, but I bet his CPU won't run at room temperature. I've only seen this baby exceed 30 degrees C once (while playing FEAR) but then I turned on the fans...
... which, in case you're wondering, are actually very quiet indeed. Not more than 30dB at full speed.
My housemates estimate I'll be able to push the FSB as high as 275MHz without touching the CPU multiplier and without losing any stability. Further stability is ensured by running Gentoo Linux as my primary OS from now on.
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IFRC the FXs are single core, but seeing how stealth is going for a gaming rig anyways, he won't notice any performance gains by moving to dual core anyway,
...until games that take big advantage of multi-threading start coming out, and otherwise it's helpfull to be able to have a dedicated core for the game, but whatever floats your boat...
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Actually, since his vid card is a 7800 and nvidia's 80 series drivers have dual core optimizations in them, he'd see some benefits right away.
Doesn't mention what he's planning on using as a display though, arguably the most important part of a gaming rig.
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Descenterace: Put up a picture of the finished product here. That sounds quite cool. :yes:
I don't think you will be able to get an X2 to 275x11 though without some big vcore bumps. There are some guys on Xtremesystems who have gotten X2s over 3ghz, but they are all on vapor condensors.
For my part, I'm basically upgrading stuff for a new video card. My existing one, a 6800 GT at a little above ultra speeds, is now struggling in a lot of modern games. I can still turn down the resolution and other settings to get smooth gameplay, but I got a much better monitor since I got that card (that's the one thing I can safely say I still have the best of around here :D) and I want to be able to take full advantage of it.
Everything except for the 7800 cards takes an inordinately large hit in performance beyond 1600x1200, which is a big plus in favor of those cards (out of the modern stuff the 6800 cards are the worst, but the X800s and X1800s are only slightly better). The X1800 XT has significantly better AF quality and a couple of nice features like the 10-bit HDR output, but has an inferior price/performance ratio compared to the 7800 solutions. The 512MB 7800GTX was my original choice overall but the current street prices on those cards are absurd, well over $700, and as things stand two 7800GTs give better performance for less money. I'm going to wait until my college semester ends to see if the prices on that card come down any, as I won't have a lot of time for games until then anyway, and just get the GTs if things stay the way they are. The only thing with the GTs is that the stock coolers are somewhat noisy and buying two aftermarket coolers would cost another $50 or so.
Since I need a new motherboard with PCIE anyway, I figured I might as well get a cheap but decent CPU to go with it (my current A64 was free but it's a very poor overclocker), so I recently picked up a new Opteron 146 for $200 off ebay (in order to get a particular stepping/week/batch). 2.9ghz is pretty much a certainty on these on good air cooling and an appropriate motherboard, with about a 80% chance of 3ghz. I decided not to get a dual core since I don't really use anything that would benefit from them and I didn't want to spend a lot on a CPU at this point given the impending move to M2 next year. I also wasn't really comfortable with the compatibility issues I have heard about with the X2s, as I play a lot of older games quite often.
I was going to get 2GB of memory but decided against that due to M2 coming up and the fact that I don't have/play the two or three current games that can make any use of it. My existing 512MB sticks should work well enough, as long as I can get them to work correctly on the motherboard I've decided on.
Actually, since his vid card is a 7800 and nvidia's 80 series drivers have dual core optimizations in them, he'd see some benefits right away.
Doesn't mention what he's planning on using as a display though, arguably the most important part of a gaming rig.
Those are actually quite overrated. For some reason a lot of people are measuring the benefits of those drivers by how much CPU utilization on the second core they create, rather than the actual performance increases over a single core with the same drivers, which are only around 3%.
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not going X2... sorry, paying $600+ on a processor is enough for me. plus i probably wouldn't notice ANY difference in ANY game. also remember this computer's not going to get slowed down with any other junk. it's strictly gaming. i have this computer for AIM, etc.
i think it'll be pretty decent ;)
Someone said the Athlon FX only takes Registered RAM. that's not true.........right? :p
Either way, i'll post screenshots and such as everything starts coming in
Kalfireth: a lot of penis envy, isn't it :P
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Indeed, but not from me. I'm comfortable having something perfectly functional for a fraction of the cost :)
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Exactly how I feel. My system is 64-bit ready, and with an increase in ram and a videocard upgrade and I'm set till Dual cores fall through the floor. I'd only be persuaded with a combo of pci-x, newer sata revision, better chipset, etc, before I'd upgrade from my current system.
Every problewith the K8T800 has been worked out, so I'm not inclined to upg.
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Ooooh you got the same mouse as me. It's been pretty awesome so far, however the coolest thing about it isn't the blue glowiness or the high precision, it's the fact that since it uses an infrared sensor it leaves a little warm spot on the mousepad. :D
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So I went to Austin the other day... visit some friends in UT. i brought this POS Pentium M 1.6 ghz, 512MB RAM laptop, which sucks. after 6 hours of trying to install WoW, and then giving up and trying to play Wc3 instead, i realized i'd wasted all my time, because the computer was too slow.
That said, i got home 6 AM Saturday morning (left Austin at 3). Woke up at 3 PM Saturday afternoon, and decided it was high time I got another computer. Started buying yesterday, and today i've got most of the parts.
This is the most powerful computer i've built to date, and i'm betting is the most powerful anyone on this forum has. Pictures posted are of the actual item i bought. What think:
-- Motherboard
Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe
http://usa.asus.com//100/images/products/744/744_l.jpg
Holy ****! :eek2:
-- RAM
2 GB (2x1GB)PC-3500 Corsair TWINX2048-3500LLPro (RAM is designed for highest performance with the A8n32-sli deluxe, and vice-versa)
http://corsair.com/corsair/products/specs/TWINX2048-3500LLPRO.pdf
Holy ****! :eek2:
-- Video Card (DO NOT HAVE YET)
nVidia 7800GTX
Can't you settle for something just a little cheaper, like a 6600? :p
-- Processor (DO NOT HAVE YET)
Athlon 64FX -55
Good luck on affording that. ;)
-- OS (DO NOT HAVE YET)
Windows XP Professional
-- Optical Media
2x SONY Black DVD-R (16x DVD-R, 16x DVD-ROM, 48x CD-ROM, 48x CD-R, 24x CD-RW)
http://i15.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/71/db/d5_1_b.JPG
Holy ****! :eek2:
-- Hard Drives
2x Maxtor 300 GB SATA drives in RAID 1 configuration (striped)
http://i10.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/81/78/a2_1.JPG
Holy ****! :eek2:
-- Case and Power Supply
Mid-ATX case with 600W SATA ready power supply
http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/30058001/Images/CA328BK.jpg
Holy ****! :eek2:
-- Mouse and Mouse Pad
Razer Diamondback Plasma LIMITED edition with Razer Exactmat pad
http://www.razerzone.com/store/images/plasma/plasma6.jpg?zenid=1eedd7f417d3469b26781e6f73d9584b
http://i10.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/7d/5d/01_1_b.JPG
...FTW.
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........
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........
........
****
Pentium 4 2.4 GHz
78something MB ram
30 GB hard drive
16 MB moblility Radeon 7500
Doom 3 on its lowest settings pushed this machine to it's limits.
How much did that machine of yours cost?
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so far... processor and video card aside (and yes i know the two of them will probably cost more than half the computer) as well as OS, i've spent around $1k
EDIT: let me break this down. just for fun:
shipping not included
mouse and mousepad = $70.00
case and power supply = $27.00
RAM = $320.00
motherboard = $250.00
dual hard drives = $250.00hipped)
dual DVD-R drives = $110.00
=======
$1027 total excluding shipping i guess :-/
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funds running low... going with a 64FX 51 instead :-/
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You don't need to spend all that much to get a pretty nice system if you choose your stuff intelligently. After my upgrades, which will come out to about $950, the total cost of my computer itself will still be under $1400 (which will include a processor running faster than an FX57 and most likely two 7800 GTs). And I would get back $350-400 by selling my existing video card, motherboard and processor on ebay. Although I guess the price is somewhat more when the monitor, headphones and other peripherals are added in.
funds running low... going with a 64FX 51 instead :-/
That's really not a good choice. The FX51 is very old, has a stock speed of only 2.2ghz, is not much of an overclocker compared to the newer CPUs and most importantly won't work with your selected motherboard and memory, since it's a 940 unit that requires registered memory.
Also, I would stay far away from a power supply included with a $27 case, especially for a setup like this. Spend $75 or so on a good separate one so you don't have to worry about it blowing up and taking down the rest of your stuff with it.
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FX CPUs are overrated. They're just glorified Opteron 100s.
As far as I can tell, the only possible benefit of having an Opteron is the option of putting more than one into certain mainboards. Of course, the Opteron 100-series don't have SMP capabilities, which kinda defeats the object.
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You don't need to spend all that much to get a pretty nice system if you choose your stuff intelligently. After my upgrades, which will come out to about $950, the total cost of my computer itself will still be under $1400 (which will include a processor running faster than an FX57 and most likely two 7800 GTs). And I would get back $350-400 by selling my existing video card, motherboard and processor on ebay. Although I guess the price is somewhat more when the monitor, headphones and other peripherals are added in.
sorry but i just don't believe you. two 7800 GTs is $600 right there. and what processor are you going to use to beat the now legendary $700+ FX57? an X2?
That's really not a good choice. The FX51 is very old, has a stock speed of only 2.2ghz, is not much of an overclocker compared to the newer CPUs and most importantly won't work with your selected motherboard and memory, since it's a 940 unit that requires registered memory.
Also, I would stay far away from a power supply included with a $27 case, especially for a setup like this. Spend $75 or so on a good separate one so you don't have to worry about it blowing up and taking down the rest of your stuff with it.
I know the guy that's selling me the case and power supply... it can be trusted.
hadn't thought about the 51 acutally... i'll have to go with the 53 instead. my motherboard doens't even support the processor/RAM. that, or i may just save up for another week and get a good single core processor, or *gasp* even a X2. my motherboard supports both. maybe i WILL get an X2.
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sorry but i just don't believe you. two 7800 GTs is $600 right there. and what processor are you going to use to beat the now legendary $700+ FX57? an X2?
Opteron 146 for $200 off ebay, as I said before. I got to go for college now but can post a list of everything later. :D
The nice thing about the Opteron 100s (the new 939 ones) is that they can run on a lower stock voltage than the normal A64s and supposedly go under slightly more stringent stability testing, so they overclock better in general. In some cases they are also cheaper than the equivalent A64s. Certain batches of Opteron 146s (stock 2ghz) can go to 3ghz on air cooling easily, which would be unthinkable on the equivalent A64s. The one I got has a very good chance of it, although there are two better revisions out there. One batch was actually made of rebadged FX57s and could regularly go to 3.2ghz on air cooling, but those are practically impossible to find now.
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in THEORY, an opteron 1xx series processor SHOULD work on this motherboard, right?
maybe i should just go with an opteron. but without clocking it to the extreme, how would it compare to the 55?
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http://cgi.ebay.com/WC-202-Cooler-VGA-CPU-Water-Cooling-Kit-100-98-Total_W0QQitemZ6821915779QQcategoryZ80150QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
i'm looking into a water cooling system to expand my clocknig capabilities. something that can sit inside the computer case, kind of like this thing. don't want to have something outside the case.
also would LIKE (if this is possible. i'm new to water-cooling) to have a fan too, that i can turn on when i'm doing some extreme gaming, to help the watercooling aspect out :)
if i go with an opteron, and clock it so it'd beat out a 55 or 57, then i can afford a decent water-cooling setup ;)
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or this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ZALMAN-CNPS9500-LED-New-in-retail-box_W0QQitemZ6823161789QQcategoryZ80147QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Man, I like my Boil in the Bag Intel 3Ghz, and yes, sometimes it is literally Boil in the Bag ;)
It's a lovely looking system Stealth, though, personally I don't need a system like this since it would spend 99% of the time not being used to a fraction of it's potential, however, at least you won't have to worry about upgrading for a good long time
As for me, well, anything that doesn't run on a 3Ghz with a 9600 is far too obsessed with graphics imho. I wonder, as an aside, how much percent of processor time in a modern game is spent graphically compared to actually executing non-graphics related code? It seems more and more 'games' are the shortest unit of code possible executing between two frames of graphics. :(
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my computer has ms paint
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my computer has ms paint
mine doesn't. And for that it's superior.
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let me guess... you're one of those "Linux" users, that makes you special. right? ;)
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got this fan ;)
CNPS9500 LED
http://www.ccsolutionz.com/ebayimages/CPUs/Fans/Zelman.jpg
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let me guess... you're one of those "Linux" users, that makes you special. right? ;)
Actually, no. Win XP tablet edition. I just deleted the paint exe :p
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in THEORY, an opteron 1xx series processor SHOULD work on this motherboard, right?
maybe i should just go with an opteron. but without clocking it to the extreme, how would it compare to the 55?
I would imagine so. They work on my older A8V board with the latest BIOS, so other Asus boards probably support them too. You may need to update the BIOS though (which can sometimes require an older CPU temporarily).
If you don't overclock, the 939 Opterons are identical to A64s with the same frequency and 1MB cache. (146 has no exact equivalent, but 148=3700, 150=4000/FX53, 152=FX55 and 154=FX57) Same goes for the dual core ones.
got this fan
CNPS9500 LED
http://www.ccsolutionz.com/ebayimages/CPUs/Fans/Zelman.jpg
That's a very good one. :yes: Expensive compared to other similar options, but I guess it looks much cooler than the rest. :D
As for me, well, anything that doesn't run on a 3Ghz with a 9600 is far too obsessed with graphics imho. I wonder, as an aside, how much percent of processor time in a modern game is spent graphically compared to actually executing non-graphics related code? It seems more and more 'games' are the shortest unit of code possible executing between two frames of graphics. :(
There are still a few genuinely good modern ones like SCCT amidst all the other junk. Although I mainly want to upgrade in order to play my older games with maxed out settings. I want to be able to play FS2 open with the high poly models at 2048x1536 with 4xSSAA and 16xAF and get 85fps at all times. :D I can play at that resolution with my existing card and get borderline okay framerates but only without the high poly models and no AA or AF.
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If you don't overclock, the 939 Opterons are identical to A64s with the same frequency and 1MB cache. (146 has no exact equivalent, but 148=3700, 150=4000/FX53, 152=FX55 and 154=FX57) Same goes for the dual core ones.
and wow, whadaya know, the 150 opteron is $800+ retail ... and it has 3 hypertransport channels, whereas my motherboard only takes advantage of one.
Guess there really is a reason why AMD says the 64FX is a true gamers PC... don't think they'd lie to the public, when they could just package an overclocked Opteron 148 and call it the "gamers CPU"... wouldn't hurt them any, in fact they could charge more for it than the 64FX they call the "gamers CPU" at the moment. i think i'm going to go with what they suggest for gamers, and get the 64FX, or maybe the 64FX X2, depending on my funds.
plus overclocking voids the processor warranty, and most other parts in the computer
plus in the grand scheme of things, nowadays, it's not all about "Mhz" anymore.
^^^^^ all this after biting the bullet and talking to my comp sci major friend :)
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The PC-Powerplay beast gaming PC > your new computer ;)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Turnsky/thabeast.jpg)
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can you afford to pay the $6k+ it must've cost to build that thing? :p
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Your computer is good.....almost as good as mine :D
For one time in my life i decided to go all out on a computer.
AMD X2 4400+ @ 2.72 Ghz, 233 Bus speed 2k HT
2 GB PC 5400 RAM
BFG GeForce 7800GT @ 633 mhz, 256 mb
DFI board, SLI-D UT
Antec 680w PSU
2x RAID 5 120 gb hdd
These are my optimal settings on stock frequencies. The 4400+ cooler is one of the best I have ever used, and its only stock!
BTW dont get the XFX 7800, yes it is cheaper but you get what you pay for. Read all the reviews and compare the benchmarks. You will see what I mean. I would get BFG, ASUS, or LEdtek.
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LOL The total cost for 'The Beast' is over $10K! That's......insane!
I'm pretty sure the Hiigarans wouldn't pay that ;)
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Nice system up there. :D But who the heck would buy a 19" LCD for a GTX SLI setup? :wtf: (you can only use one of them in SLI mode) Screw that and add in the JVC 2048x1536 projector for $225000 instead. And just to get the price up some more, get four Opteron 854s, a board like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813151136) and 32GB of memory. This is supposed to be extreme after all, right? :D
and wow, whadaya know, the 150 opteron is $800+ retail ... and it has 3 hypertransport channels, whereas my motherboard only takes advantage of one.
Guess there really is a reason why AMD says the 64FX is a true gamers PC... don't think they'd lie to the public, when they could just package an overclocked Opteron 148 and call it the "gamers CPU"... wouldn't hurt them any, in fact they could charge more for it than the 64FX they call the "gamers CPU" at the moment. i think i'm going to go with what they suggest for gamers, and get the 64FX, or maybe the 64FX X2, depending on my funds.
plus overclocking voids the processor warranty, and most other parts in the computer
plus in the grand scheme of things, nowadays, it's not all about "Mhz" anymore.
^^^^^ all this after biting the bullet and talking to my comp sci major friend
You're looking at the 8-way multiprocessor capable 850, not the 150. The 939 150 is about $350 (only one active hypertransport channel), the same price as the identical 4000. And of course they would "lie" to the public. They are there to make money, after all. :p
The only thing the FXs have over all the other AMD64 processors is that their multipliers are fully unlocked, which is much less useful than it used to be with older processors.
The warranty is valuable to some people, but it's very hard to screw up something if you work up slowly and do all the relevant research in advance, and if you get a cheap processor then it won't cost you much to replace it anyway. You are right though, the CPU speed makes very little difference in modern games (at normal settings and taking minimum framerates into account), where the video card is king. I'm actually more interested in Mathematica and emulators, which will get a big performance boost over my existing CPU.
BTW dont get the XFX 7800, yes it is cheaper but you get what you pay for. Read all the reviews and compare the benchmarks. You will see what I mean. I would get BFG, ASUS, or LEdtek.
XFX is supposed to have gotten much better with quality control since their 7800 cards. They are one of the companies that make a 490/1300 version. BFG is overrated in my experience (I have a BFG card), solid but nothing special, but eVGA's support and warranty is now the best in the business from what I'm hearing.
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You're looking at the 8-way multiprocessor capable 850, not the 150. The 939 150 is about $350 (only one active hypertransport channel), the same price as the identical 4000.
are you sure about that? to my knowledge one of the key features (unless it's changed recently) of opteron 100 series processors were their 3 hypertransport channels
And of course they would "lie" to the public. They are there to make money, after all. :p
you're missing my point. why would they lie to the public and say the 64FX is the most powerful gaming processor when it's not. they could JUST as easily bump the price on the opteron 1xxs, and sell overclocked models of THEM as the "gamers CPU". not a matter of "they can make more money from the 64FX". only reason they're making so much money out of it is because it's been advertised to be so awesome for gaming. if the opteron is so OBVIOUSLY the better gaming processor, why wouldn't they market that as the optimal processor for gaming. because it's not.
The only thing the FXs have over all the other AMD64 processors is that their multipliers are fully unlocked, which is much less useful than it used to be with older processors.
therefore making overclocking much more flexible/easy than the opteron
The warranty is valuable to some people, but it's very hard to screw up something if you work up slowly and do all the relevant research in advance, and if you get a cheap processor then it won't cost you much to replace it anyway.
or you could buy a processor that's designed to fly, and not have to risk breaking something by saving $200 and overclocking a processor, risking damaging your computer, and going through all that trouble... and still outperform the opteron in a desktop environment
You are right though, the CPU speed makes very little difference in modern games (at normal settings and taking minimum framerates into account), where the video card is king. I'm actually more interested in Mathematica and emulators, which will get a big performance boost over my existing CPU.
yeah. the things people will say nowadays. about buying cheaper processors, so they can clock it from 2.0 GHZ, to 2.6 GHZ. that may have been more impressive 5 years ago, but now it's really not as much :-/
;)
64FX it is. possibly even X2 if i can find it. or opteron........ if i can find a high end 100 series for less than i'd pay for my 64FX.
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Wow. 19 inch LCDs powering a 10k system. Whoever wrote that article is a moron.
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are you sure about that? to my knowledge one of the key features (unless it's changed recently) of opteron 100 series processors were their 3 hypertransport channels
See this table (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8796_9240,00.html). "Coherent" means enabled here (all of them have three built-in links but AMD factory-disables some of them). The new 939 Opterons are not in that list yet, but they are basically 0/0.
you're missing my point. why would they lie to the public and say the 64FX is the most powerful gaming processor when it's not. they could JUST as easily bump the price on the opteron 1xxs, and sell overclocked models of THEM as the "gamers CPU". not a matter of "they can make more money from the 64FX". only reason they're making so much money out of it is because it's been advertised to be so awesome for gaming. if the opteron is so OBVIOUSLY the better gaming processor, why wouldn't they market that as the optimal processor for gaming. because it's not.
You could say that's exactly what they are doing with the FXs, just selling their best Opterons as those. The Opteron isn't "obviously" the better gaming processor; they are completely identical aside from the overclocking, just marketed for different kinds of buyers. The FX57 is the best gaming processor, but so is the (identical) Opteron 154.
To tell you the truth, the FXs are all bad deals unless you have some extreme cooling setup. Even if you aren't going to overclock, you wouldn't see any real benefits in actual usage over, say, a normal A64 3800 or 4000, unless you use certain specialized programs a lot. I do, but I don't want to pay for an FX, so I overclock. :nod:
therefore making overclocking much more flexible/easy than the opteron
Not really, A64 overclocking is somewhat different from that of other processors. Memory dividers have no performance hit and most A64 motherboards can hit at least 260mhz HT and support asychronous bus frequencies, so the multiplier adjustments have become pretty much redundant. They're convenient, but not worth paying extra for.
or you could buy a processor that's designed to fly, and not have to risk breaking something by saving $200 and overclocking a processor, risking damaging your computer, and going through all that trouble... and still outperform the opteron in a desktop environment
I can understand wanting to avoid the hassle and time it takes to overclock (although if there is any significant "risk" you are doing something wrong), but I personally would rather have the $900 difference in my pocket and get better speeds in the end. :D
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I'm real behind in this discussion but I want to point out one thing you said about your PSU. You know and trust the guy who's selling you the psu. One thing I've learned the hard way from purchasing my own components is a single simple rule. Two actually.
Functionality over Form, at all times.
and
Don't Trust. Research.
I trusted a friend who ran a computer store here, bought a defective optical drive from him. MSI drives are garbage, total garbage, though he said they were pretty good. I also trusted him on MSI for other things as well, like a new socket 754 MSI motherboard. Turns out that motherboard went through eight (not exaggerating) EIGHT BIOS revisions and STILL had major bugs that were being worked on. Luckily, I didnt buy the board from the guy I trusted. then I got the Asus K8V SE DLX and I've had zero problems. After researching, that is.
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If you are paying less than £50 ($80?) for a power supply 'rated at 480W', you are about to suffer disappointment. Don't look at the power rating; look at the maximum current it can deliver (that's sustained current, not peak current) on each rail. Anything less than 30A on the positive 12V rail is too weak for a gaming system.
Good 480W supplies are very expensive. A $20 PSU will not run a gaming machine for long and despite the rating the manufacturer gives it is probably closer to 250W.
To be honest, although 480W is often sufficient for a modern computer, I'd be inclined to go looking for a good solid 550W or higher PSU. The more overspec it is the longer it will last and the less likely it is to burn out randomly.
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I can't remember the last time I pored over technical stats like this. So long as it plays SCP... :p
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Funniest thing is, I just looked up the spec of that '600W' power supply:
-> Power Specifications:
- +3.3V ~ 28A
- + 5V ~ 38A
- + 12V ~ 17A
- -5V ~ 0.5A
- -12V ~ 0.8A
- +5Vsb ~ 2A
THAT IS NOT A 600W SUPPLY. That spec would disgrace my webserver's 300W cheapo PSU! I would be very surprised if an AMD FX-based system even boots off that PSU.
Bloody hell... even EBuyer's budget 'Gold PSU' pieces of crap pump more amps than that.
[edit] OK, so technically it is a 600W supply, but that's only because they've boosted the output of the 5V rail. Thing is, anything above approx. 20A is fine for the 5V; it's the 12V which is important for anything newer than a Pentium 2. [/edit]
Coming soon to a website-owned-by-a-bored-student near you: destruct-testing of an EBuyer superpricecheapo 600000000000W PSU (weight: 250g)...
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I can understand wanting to avoid the hassle and time it takes to overclock (although if there is any significant "risk" you are doing something wrong), but I personally would rather have the $900 difference in my pocket and get better speeds in the end. :D
$900 difference? the opterons and their 64fx counterparts are almost identical in price. 64FX 57 = slightly over $1000. opteron 154 = slightly over $1000.
still not a believe in clocking for daily use.
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Funniest thing is, I just looked up the spec of that '600W' power supply:
-> Power Specifications:
- +3.3V ~ 28A
- + 5V ~ 38A
- + 12V ~ 17A
- -5V ~ 0.5A
- -12V ~ 0.8A
- +5Vsb ~ 2A
THAT IS NOT A 600W SUPPLY. That spec would disgrace my webserver's 300W cheapo PSU! I would be very surprised if an AMD FX-based system even boots off that PSU.
Bloody hell... even EBuyer's budget 'Gold PSU' pieces of crap pump more amps than that.
[edit] OK, so technically it is a 600W supply, but that's only because they've boosted the output of the 5V rail. Thing is, anything above approx. 20A is fine for the 5V; it's the 12V which is important for anything newer than a Pentium 2. [/edit]
Coming soon to a website-owned-by-a-bored-student near you: destruct-testing of an EBuyer superpricecheapo 600000000000W PSU (weight: 250g)...
that's not the power supply that's coming with it. that picture was meant to show the case more than the power supply.
and if worst comes to worst, when everything arrives, if i see the PS isn't up to spec, i'll run down to Frys and pay $120 for a better one. no biggie.
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$900 difference? the opterons and their 64fx counterparts are almost identical in price. 64FX 57 = slightly over $1000. opteron 154 = slightly over $1000.
still not a believe in clocking for daily use.
We're talking about two different things here. The FX57 and 939 154 are identical in every way (2.8ghz, 1MB L2, revision E6, about $1100). I meant the difference between a FX57 and an 146 though. The FX57 has an $1100 MSRP, while the former is around $170 (I paid a bit more to get a guaranteed batch code), of which certain batches can overclock to 3ghz easily. Even the worst 146 steppings (the CABGEs or "cabbages" :D) can do 2.6-2.7ghz.
If you are paying less than £50 ($80?) for a power supply 'rated at 480W', you are about to suffer disappointment. Don't look at the power rating; look at the maximum current it can deliver (that's sustained current, not peak current) on each rail. Anything less than 30A on the positive 12V rail is too weak for a gaming system.
Although I agree that this power supply is a complete POS ("600W" is a sad joke :p), a sustained 30A on a 12V line is probably not needed in most cases if it's a high quality unit otherwise. There is one guy on the AT forums with the same unit as me (28A on 12V) and has a 7800GTX SLI setup on it.
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tell you what. tell me what processor to get, that with BASIC overclocking i can match the FX57 in all aspects, and i'll take your word for it and get it ;)
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It depends on what you call "basic" overclocking. I would say your best bet of getting that speed with a significantly cheaper processor is with one of a few particular Opteron 146 or 148 batches, but that involves a fairly large overclock percentage-wise, and you can only get a guaranteed batch number if you order off ebay (like I did) or buy at a retail store (where you can see the numbers on the CPUs through the boxes). There are some 3200s, 3700s and 4000s that can hit the speed, but it's not that common with those.
As for the batch codes, I did a fair bit of research on them last week and this seems to be the trend on 146s on good air cooling, although the other Opteron models with the same codes should perform similarly:
CABNE 0528GPMW : the absolute best, rebadged FX57s, can hit 3ghz on stock voltage and usually about 3.2ghz maximum (almost impossible to find now)
CABYE 0540FPBW and any other CABNE except for CABNE 0540s : still very good, about 2.8-2.9ghz on stock volts and max out at 3.0-3.1ghz
CABYE 0540FPAW and CABYE 0540FPMW : max out at about the same levels as above, but require a bit more voltage; I got an FPAW
any CABGE : not that good relatively speaking, only get to about 2.4 on stock voltage and 2.7 maximum, these are known as cabbages :D
any CAB2E : quite variable, can be as good as any of the above, rather hit or miss
If you don't want to bother with that, 2.6ghz (FX55 speed) is probably a more realistic target, which can generally be achieved by even the crappier Opteron batches and most normal A64s. In general, the Opterons on average seem to overclock better than A64s. Note that all the Opterons have 1MB of cache, so they equal the FXs in that respect, but out of the 939-pin A64s, only the 3700 and 4000 have that.
Also, one thing to keep in mind the older Asus nforce4 boards are all mediocre HT overclockers. The new A8N32 board should in theory be very good with the 8-phase power regulation, but not too many people have it yet and there isn't a whole lot of information on how well it does.
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that's the board i have. heh.
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Your computer is good.....almost as good as mine :D
For one time in my life i decided to go all out on a computer.
AMD X2 4400+ @ 2.72 Ghz, 233 Bus speed 2k HT
2 GB PC 5400 RAM
BFG GeForce 7800GT @ 633 mhz, 256 mb
DFI board, SLI-D UT
Antec 680w PSU
2x RAID 5 120 gb hdd
These are my optimal settings on stock frequencies. The 4400+ cooler is one of the best I have ever used, and its only stock!
BTW dont get the XFX 7800, yes it is cheaper but you get what you pay for. Read all the reviews and compare the benchmarks. You will see what I mean. I would get BFG, ASUS, or LEdtek.
still a toss up which one's better... i beat you in video card, hard drives, etc. ;)
EDIT: doesn't RAID 5 require a min. of 3 drives? you're pulling it off with two? you sure you're not just mirroring or striping? (0 or 1 level)
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RAID5 does indeed require a minimum of 3 drives. However, I suspect that in this instance those are drives marketed as 'suitable for RAID5', which is a part of the name.
On the subject of RAID5, I'm thinking of buying a trio of 500GB disks with a RAID card just so I can claim a terabyte of RAID5'd space at the next LAN party... shame I don't have that kind of money, really.
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Hell, 2.6GHz can be done by my "mere" Athlon64 3000+
At this moment I'd go for the 146 for sure.
My 350W Enermax PSU can also sustain 26A on the 12V rail. But don't ever skimp on the power supply. It's guaranteed to bite you in the ass later. That's why I have at least a decent one.
BTW, if you're going to spend big, get the new Soundblaster XIFI card =D~
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i actually bought an Audigy 2 :D. and a thermaltake 680W power supply.
also, remember not to judge based on the "mere" megahertz.
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just put the computer together, and whadaya know... the power supply's bad, and one of the hard drives is clicking
GD, this happens every time...
anyway, i decided to go with the Opteron 148 CABNE 0528GPMW, as per CP's suggestion, so that if this doesn't work out, i can blame it all on him. got it at less than half what i would've paid for a FX-57, so *shrugs*
also a MSI 7800 GTX. computer looks pretty good all together
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Where did you get that CABNE? And how much was it? I really wanted one of those, both for the batch code and the 11 multiplier, but they are in high demand and the ebay prices for the few still for sale were going over $350 when I was looking to buy one. Couldn't really justify paying $150 over a CABYE for the extra 200mhz.
I'm waiting for my pair of 7800GTs to come in. $600 shipped for the EVGA CO versions was an excellent price, especially considering that each one performs about the same as a stock GTX. Now I just need to decide on a motherboard. My final exams end next Friday, after which I have time to mess around with this.
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Good God, $600 for a video card...that's the reason why I'm waiting to upgrade.
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He said a pair of GTs for 600, that's 300 a pop. Super high end SLI. Third best video setup on the market right now.
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paid ~$450 shipped for it:
(http://www.swooh.com/home/lorenzo/computer/processor.jpg)
here's the computer assembled. the power supply didn't work, so i bought another one. also one of the hard drives was making clicking noises, so i'm down to one 300 GB: (. had a PAIN getting the computer to recognize the SATA drives. the RAID was recognizing them, but the BIOS wasn't, neither was the XP setup, even after using the ASUS SATA driver floppy disk.
(http://www.swooh.com/home/lorenzo/computer/pic1.jpg)
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I'm waiting for my pair of 7800GTs to come in. $600 shipped for the EVGA CO versions was an excellent price, especially considering that each one performs about the same as a stock GTX. Now I just need to decide on a motherboard. My final exams end next Friday, after which I have time to mess around with this.
no they don't. they're always going to be quite a few percent under the GTX, especially at higher resolutions, and that's when the 7800 gtx really starts to shine.
remember, again, there's not a big conspiracy going on here ;) They're not selling the 7800 GT for $200 less than the GTX, just to screw people over. they aren't the same card :). plus i've got room for upgrades, i.e. when i decide to get a second 7800 gtx near the end of the year
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Good God, $600 for a video card...that's the reason why I'm waiting to upgrade.
Yeah, video cards are getting increasingly expensive at the high end, but they're the one component worth spending a lot of money on. I have gotten addicted to 2048x1536 and want to play as many things as possible in that. :D
These are actually quite a good deal though compared to the other options in this price range. They destroy the $550 X1800XT and are either slightly or considerably faster than the $750 7800GTX 512MB, depending on the game. The 80 series drivers have fixed a lot of the SLI quirks.
There are rumors that both companies will release new top end cards in February, but if the 512MB GTX was any indication, the inflated prices and low availability of these parts will be a major problem. I also want to make use of the cards during my winter break, which ends in February, so it made more sense for me to just buy now instead of waiting.
You can still get very good cards for a lot less though. The 6800GS, X800GTO/GTO2 (the GTO2 is back to $200 now) or a single 7800GT are all great options for the money at the moment.
paid ~$450 shipped for it:
hmm, for $450 it's not that great a deal anymore, since the original price of those was around $200. I guess if you were looking at an FX57 instead, it's not too bad.
Did you cut off the heatspreader or did it come like that? That is supposed to drop the temperatures by quite a bit as long as you can get the heatsink to make contact correctly.
no they don't. they're always going to be quite a few percent under the GTX, especially at higher resolutions, and that's when the 7800 gtx really starts to shine.
remember, again, there's not a big conspiracy going on here ;) They're not selling the 7800 GT for $200 less than the GTX, just to screw people over. they aren't the same card :). plus i've got room for upgrades, i.e. when i decide to get a second 7800 gtx near the end of the year
Check a review on the EVGA CO card, which has a signficant stock overclock over a reference GT. Depending on the game, one card is a few percent slower or faster than a reference GTX at 1600x1200 or higher. It's somewhat strange given the theoretical fillrates and memory bandwidth of the cards, but has something to do with the whole "multiple clocks" issue on the G70 cores. These cards generally retail for about $370 (instead of the $440 or so for a reference GTX) but there are some big sales going on at the moment. I think Newegg sold out quickly at the $300 prices, but Mwave might still have some.
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7800 GTX >>>>> 7800 GT
DUAL 7800 GTX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DUAL 7800 GT
;)
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In that sense,
dual 7800 GTX 512MB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else
:D
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or how about we just stick with:
My computer > all of yours
;)
This computer's a beast. i'm not liking the 2.2 GHZ stock with this opteron 148, but it'll be at 3.0 by tonight most likely.
i'm about to run HL2 at the top settings, interested to see how it runs :)
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You'll have the performance crown around here for about ten days. :D
Anyway, HL2 should run very well. Use the TSAA mode if possible, which helps a lot in that game. I would expect 1600x1200 at 4xTSAA or 2048x1536 with no AA to give solid 60fps minimums. It might struggle at 2048x1536 with 4xMSAA on a single card though, as the 7800 cards are a little weak with AA in general.
Personally, I am not going to try that game again. :p It's Far Cry and SCCT for me. The cards are supposed to come with Call of Duty 2, which looks like an interesting game, and I can sell the second copy on ebay.
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or how about we just stick with:
My computer > all of yours
;)
Statements like that make us think
your penis < everyone else's.
Why do feel so compelled to be superior?
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because i'm sick and tired of having a "mediocre" computer. i built this one to be top of the line, and so far it really is. only thing i'm kind of regretting is not getting dual 7800 gtxs up front. that and not saving for a FX-57 in the first place
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The 7800 GTX is indeed superior to ATI's challenger, the X1800, but only until you turn on antialiasing and anisotropic filtering, whereupon the ATI card makes up ground quickly. But, as I tire of telling my housemates, I still prefer the 7800GTX, since I rarely use AA in modern games and I've yet to see AF slow down a game substantially.
ATI has less experience of Shader Model 3. nVidia is an entire generation ahead in that respect.
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There is also the matter of street prices, as a reference 7800GTX costs about $100 less than a reference X1800XT at the moment. I really like the X1800XT's superior AF quality and the 10-bit HDR output looks interesting, but I wasn't about to pay $550 for just that when for $50 more I could get performance in an entirely different league.
What motherboards do you guys have? I have been looking into several possible options and it seems that they all have their own issues. My best choices seem to be the DFI SLI-D or the Abit AN8-SLI, given that I need SLI and 300mhz HT capability. The A8N32-SLI looks nice but is too expensive / hard to find and the PCI/PCIE slot layout is very bad. Modding a cheaper DFI Ultra-D is another option, but that's unfortunately not guaranteed to work anymore.
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You can still get very good cards for a lot less though. The 6800GS, X800GTO/GTO2 (the GTO2 is back to $200 now) or a single 7800GT are all great options for the money at the moment.
At the moment, I have an Athlon64 (754-pin) 3000+, 6600 GT AGP, and 512 MB of DDR RAM (since the other 512 died). So in order to upgrade to the newer stuff, I'd have to buy a new processor, new mem, and new video card...buying anything more than the GT for AGP is just not worth it, because when I upgrade everything else I'll just have to spend the money over again. And upgrading the whole thing to something noticeably better would cost $600 or so, and right now I'm trying to save up a bit. (It still runs current games decently, it's about 'average')
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just wanted to say:
Damn this thing is fast.
i did the video stress test in HL2, running 1280x1024 resolution, highest settings (AA, AF, etc.), and get 179 average FPS. pretty nifty ;)
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Dude, bump up the resolution. HL2 at 12x10 is nothing for a 7800GTX. Or try turning on the 16xS AA mode.
[q]
At the moment, I have an Athlon64 (754-pin) 3000+, 6600 GT AGP, and 512 MB of DDR RAM (since the other 512 died). So in order to upgrade to the newer stuff, I'd have to buy a new processor, new mem, and new video card...buying anything more than the GT for AGP is just not worth it, because when I upgrade everything else I'll just have to spend the money over again. And upgrading the whole thing to something noticeably better would cost $600 or so, and right now I'm trying to save up a bit. (It still runs current games decently, it's about 'average')[/q]
There are some Abit and Epox 754 PCIE motherboards out there that will allow you to use the same processor. Although if you are satisfied with your existing system it does probably make sense to wait a bit for M2 to come out in four months or so.
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Dude, bump up the resolution. HL2 at 12x10 is nothing
right now that's the highest resolution my monitor can support. new monitor arrives on Wednesday.
and i have 16x AA
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complete:
(http://www.swooh.com/home/lorenzo/computer/complete1.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/home/lorenzo/computer/complete2.jpg)
:D
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because i'm sick and tired of having a "mediocre" computer. i built this one to be top of the line, and so far it really is. only thing i'm kind of regretting is not getting dual 7800 gtxs up front. that and not saving for a FX-57 in the first place
Wow, you should see the framerate I get on my 80 inch monitor. It's totally flat, with perfect resolution and vibrant colour. New technology.
Apparently, they call it a window.
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Nice computer.
However, does it let you play donkey?
I didn't think so.
I'm definitely pullin 2 frames a second here. (http://www3.sympatico.ca/kbros/ibm.html) :p
Cheers!
I'm just jealous because my mobo in my destop and my ATI card currently don't function because of ATI's linux drivers magical ability to open quantum flux vortices when X loads up, so it's back to my old videocard.
I've actually been thinking of selling it, and it look slike I could still get almost 200$CAD for my 9800 Pro 256 if I get a someone on ebay to buy it, since I've still got the retail box and all the rest.
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Looks great. Take a few night shots to capture the LED fans.
My cards came in today. The shipping box says "Mitsumi Floppy Disk Drive" all over it for some reason (:wtf:), but whatever, the cards look great. Now I just need to wait for my motherboard to arrive. Can't wait for my final exams to end on Friday. It's going to be a good winter break. :)
Wow, you should see the framerate I get on my 80 inch monitor. It's totally flat, with perfect resolution and vibrant colour. New technology.
Apparently, they call it a window.
Most of my windows are covered by screens on the outside. Major LCD screen door effect. :( :no:
:D
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Where do you guys usually buy your parts?
Come the new year (and my hopefully decent sized tax return), i will be looking to build or buy me a nice gaming machine. I figure if i can build one decently (no overclocking, i will not do that when i have little or no knowledge of it) and maybe save a few bucks...
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monarch computers and Ebay
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You guys have too much time and money... :p
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(http://www.swooh.com/home/lorenzo/computer/mouse1.JPG)
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You guys have too much time and money... :p
No kidding. If you have any extra money you are itching to spend, you can always give it to me.
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Ah yes, the same mouse I have. It's quite awesome, very precise, and because it's infrared it leaves a little warm spot on the mousepad under it. :D
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oh it's very cool ;)
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is that a Razer Diamondback? Nice mouse, but I prefer the shape/ergonomics of the Logitech ones.
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i prefer the extreme precision of the diamondback ;)
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Myself, I'm a fan of the Logitech MX1000. I don't think it scores well for precision (at "only" 800dpi) but above 600 I really can't tell the difference. It's not like I can pull off accurate snap shots anyway.
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I have an MX510, which is very good for the $30 I paid a year ago. The newer G5/G7 and Copperhead can do 2000dpi and the on-the-fly dpi adjustment idea sounds interesting, but they all have fewer buttons and are fairly expensive.
Do any of you have that G15 keyboard? I picked up one on sale at a CUSA two days ago and generally like it a lot. The much hyped LCD still needs some work on the software/driver side, but I mainly got it for the other features anyway, which all work very well.