Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kosh on December 13, 2005, 03:25:28 am
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http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Moneyinyour20s/P136091.asp
I think that college in the US is getting outragously expensive. Anyone else think so?
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It's no different in the UK, our hardest-up generation is the 30-40 year olds, many of us (including me) have given up any hope of being able to afford things like...a home.
Unfortunately my entire generation got screwed over, and yes, I do get bitter over it.
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I think college (um, whatever that actually is; I think it seems to be equivalent to a UK non-honours undergraduate degree) in the US is already outrageously expensive. It's getting bad in the UK, too, but at least Scotland has a much better-stroke-fairer system than England & Wales, even if the funding gap (from top-up fees in England) will have a knock on effect of relative university ratings.
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aldo: Colleges and Universities in the US offer four types of degrees, for the most part.
Associate's: 2 year program
Bachelor's: 4 year program
Master's: 1-3 year program after the Bachelor's
Doctorate: Research-based in most circumstances, concluded after the defense of a thesis
They're most likely referring to a Bachelor's degree in the article.
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Unfortunately I also fall into the catagory of those who've given up all hope of being out of debt in the next twenty years of my life. It seems one has to be extremly successful or indeed lucky to be able to pay off UK student loan fees any time soon after leaving University.
I anticipate this having a massive financial knock on for the future. The gap between the rich and the poor extends itself with only the children of rich families being able to get an easy or even moderate ride through life.
All in all... it's a ****ing joke :doubt:
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Resource Boom with no signs of abating in the near future + Geology degree = Rich BW with no major HECS worries. woot.
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I'm spending relatively very little on my college degree, but I have done quite a few things to bring my price down. The normal prices are quite extreme. At least the graduate programs are a bit better.
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I pay nothing to the school (they are all government financed), but I still have my living expenses (which are loan financed and will ultimately put me in debt somewhere around the equivalent of $30 000 USD when I'm finished). Works kinda well, imo. Even the exchange students won't have to pay, which is a lucky break for them.
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[q]the equivalent of $30 000 USD when I'm finished[/q]
For that money you better be ****ting gold by graduation.
Edit: And yes, it's an interesting situation in the UK. I don't pay for my fees, that's government subsidised but equally I have to pay for my own living costs. I've always managed to keep that under control with budgeting and part time jobs. The worst ever was when I maxed out my overdraft at £1800. I even managed to go on holiday this year.
The problem for this academic year will be that because I've had to repeat honours (on medical grounds), I may have to pay for _everything_ in 4th year if they don't accept my medical reasons.
So... not as bad as many places, but still not perfect.
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[q]the equivalent of $30 000 USD when I'm finished[/q]
For that money you better be ****ting gold by graduation.
Edit: And yes, it's an interesting situation in the UK. I don't pay for my fees, that's government subsidised but equally I have to pay for my own living costs. I've always managed to keep that under control with budgeting and part time jobs. The worst ever was when I maxed out my overdraft at £1800. I even managed to go on holiday this year.
The problem for this academic year will be that because I've had to repeat honours (on medical grounds), I may have to pay for _everything_ in 4th year if they don't accept my medical reasons.
So... not as bad as many places, but still not perfect.
really? it's five years of living expenses in a quite expensive western european country. I'm living one step up from the hobos. If anything, 30k is an underexaggeration.
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i got a 2 year degree that i still owe 12 grand on. i havent used the degree in any job thusfar. i figure il be paying it for about 10 years. i have more a problem with bang for your buck factor. i found my self paying around $50 a day to have some idiot read a text book to the class, the same book they sold us. i could have just bought the book and id probibly have learned more. theres alot of schools out there that are just there to rip people off. im less bitter about what i spent than with the quality of my education. my highschool electronics class was far more usefull and was entirely free. i was able to learn from my brother's indebted ass not to use credit for trivial things. so ive become a very cheap person.
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Let's see.... 2/3 of the way through my first year of college, I have about $4000 in Federal loans. It'll be at about $5800 after this year. Figure $11000 in scholarships for rest of the way through (assuming I don't go for the Bachelor's/Master's program), that'll leave $84000 remaining, so about $90000 total. Subtract about half the median co-op salary for 1.5 years of co-op, so it'll be $66000 worth of debt when I get out.
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I remember noting a while back entry level US salaries were seemingly a lot higher than the UK. I guess this explains why....
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Entry level for my major is about $57000/year, $67000/year if I get the BS/MS.
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What. the. ****.
!?
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.....the ironic thing about all this is that despite having college degrees and what-not....in the end we'll probably have to answer to a corporate leader that most probably dropped out of high school and succesfully created the business in which we are working and are filthy rich millionaires....
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Most likely no. We'll end up working for people who have business and management degrees. The ones who drop out of high school or college and start companies tend to retire after a few million and get replaced with the business types.
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Right now I'm $3500 in debt, after a single year in college. The course I wanted to take would have cost $6800 per year, for four years, plus maybe another $1500 a year in expenses. So between 25 and 30k in total, and that's because we have it relatively cheap in Canada. I hear university runs around 20 grand a year in the US. And that's assuming I live at home during that period, which most people won't.
Like Kal said, it's a ****ing joke. Anyone with half a brain could start a small business with that kind of money and have it grow prosperous after four years of work.
And you know what gets me? The fact that I know for a fact that there is a Chinese student who is willing to pay twice and much, work twice as hard for half the salary expectation, and be thankful for it. Obviously, something is very wrong with this system.
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For an engineering college, figure $35k+. I'm getting off pretty well with $32k/year.
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I guess part of the problem is that college degrees no longer equals success. In terms of "upward mobility", the US isn't the same country it was 30 years ago.
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.....the ironic thing about all this is that despite having college degrees and what-not....in the end we'll probably have to answer to a corporate leader that most probably dropped out of high school and succesfully created the business in which we are working and are filthy rich millionaires....
What should really burn you is the fact I intend to do that, only having graduated university as well. :p
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Tuition here has been going up too...but $5000 tuition average at my school is not bad compared to the $32,000 that I hear about (per year!) in the states. Our tuition is going up and there are the same concerns about accessibility that they want to hand off to scholarships and that sort of garbage...but my parents technically make too much for me to have ever applied for assistance and we're also too honest with what we have to be able to get it (many apparently just cheat the system).
Its scarry...by the time I have children the average middleclass family will have to go into debt to put children through university or college.
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Icefire: Welcome to the United States :p
Hell, my family is considered in the upper range of middle-class, and I'm going to be in debt for a few years after I get out.
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Well, I'm in my first semester of a 6-year course (Master's degree, placement year, plus foundation year), And I'm expecting to come out with at least £20,000 of loans to pay off. And that's going to get worse for students starting next year, with the introduction of top-up fees of several thousand pounds a year (though AFAIK they won't happen in Scotland and Wales).
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Well, I'm in my first semester of a 6-year course (Master's degree, placement year, plus foundation year), And I'm expecting to come out with at least £20,000 of loans to pay off. And that's going to get worse for students starting next year, with the introduction of top-up fees of several thousand pounds a year (though AFAIK they won't happen in Scotland and Wales).
I think they are allowed in Wales, but it's at university discretion. I have about £10k owed in loans, but fortunately I've got some left tucked away in an ISA, and also a few grand from when I was still self employed.
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[q]and also a few grand from when I was still self employed.[/q]
You mean you eventually make money? I was beginning to think I was toiling under a false pretence.
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In first year of my degree I taught about half the class basic/intermediate electronics theory. Last year I taught a first year girl and a few of her friends ECG theory, electronics and some maths. I did all of this without being paid and probably at the expense of my own end of year marks. I'm not horribly bothered though as the marks from the first two years don't actually count for anything, they're simply a mechanism to get you to final year.
This year I am supposed to be doing placement to get a diploma in industrial studies, for this I don't actually go to uni, I still pay them half of the normal fees though. I was set to go to work for siemens or another major medical company in Germany for half the year and go to uni in Geissen to get a diploma in clinical practice for the other half. I'd set a bit of money aside to get me there and done my research on the place I was going to. Before the summer holidays the person who was in charge of things at our end changed. I emailed the guy, I phoned him repeatedly and one week before the placement forms had to be in I find out that the entire thing had changed and I needed an extra 1000 euros which I couldn't possibly get in time. Had I one months notice I would have been able to get the funds together and everything would have been ok. The only reason I got details is that I found out who was the contact in Germany and emailed her directly. This as I said was one week before the forms were supposed to be sent.
As a result I had to pull out feeling quite betrayed considering I had shown interest since first year. To add insult to injury when I told the guy on our end the reason for pulling out two days after the cut off date for applying, he then told me that the work part of the placement would have been first. I would have been able to make the money I needed to go to uni there. Amature hour.
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[q]and also a few grand from when I was still self employed.[/q]
You mean you eventually make money? I was beginning to think I was toiling under a false pretence.
I was only self-employed for contractual/tax reasons.