Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: aldo_14 on December 25, 2005, 03:06:18 pm
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http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=007940;p=1#000019
You know what I like about you and those twits masquerading as FS luvas while giving the true fans a bad name? The comedy of it all and the ignorance of the inconsequential attribute that you all share.
The FULL source code to FS2 has been out there for how long now? Yes, thats right. Several years.
How many freeware graphics engines and tools are there? Dozens. Literally. What have you folks done thus far? Fackall.
If you twits had actually done anything, nobody would be clamouring for an FS3 by now.
Sorry, but I had to set him right. You know how it is.
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Replied.
http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=007940&p=2#000025
Nice, first post on second page too.
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http://www.werewolves.org/~follies/
Just in case some of the newer folks don't know who we're dealing with. ;)
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Heh...maybe it's just me but I find that strikingly odd...I dunno why but I just figured everybody has attacked a vending machine at some time or another...I know I certainly have...
:lol:
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Albeit lets not go nuts here. Just polite responses are required, I think. Articulate our position, our concerns and we have a - factual- high ground.
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Nothing less of course.
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1) We don't want to make FS3. Hell it's even in my FAQ as question number 2!
2) We don't want FS3 unless it has the storyline by :v: because without it what's the ****ing point? You might as well make your own game in the same way that :v: just took the best elements of the space sim genre to make FS1.
I might as well go tell DS that as diplomatically as possible
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No, aldo and BD have said it perfectly, I think. :)
No reason for half of HLP to go hopping over to say the same exact thing.
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The one fact I feel they missed is that the community as a whole have decided not to work on FS3 and that it's a group decision rather than a lack of motivation or talent in any individuals or groups within the community. Basically that if we wanted to make FS3 we would have already.
I'll wait and see if it becomes necessary to point that out though.
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I thought the guy was dead or something.
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No, but his take on the situation is extremely interesting.
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Does anybody really care?
Yes, he's an asshole. No, he's not going to change.
If I ever get those contacts with the Russian Mafia I intend to establish, I'll try and have him killed - but beyond that, I don't think there's anything anyone can say or do to stop him being an asshole, so why not just ignore the little media whore and kick him if you happen to walk past him in the street?
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Hmm, you know a question concerning DS came up at the FS2 board at G-FAQs the other day, I anwsered him, and then looked over the big thread here and at A-Vault getting steamed up. And comes more. :nervous:
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Does anybody really care?
Don't care about his opinion. I do care about him bad-mouthing the community or belittling the efforts of the SCP. Some of the people on AV might actually listen to him and get the idea that FS2_Open isn't worth trying.
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I'm still of the opinion: "**** them in their stupid asses."
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Hehe, someone posted the BSG trailer. :drevil:
*EDIT:I've read what his ideas were before, but this is just scary, from the other thread he posted. :shaking: :ick:
My original plan was to complete the storyline in a single player campaign. Then when the campaign ended, have it revert to a freeform game in the universe, using my technologies. I was also going to build a highly detailed alien base on a Moon; thereby providing first person perspective and planetay flight missions etc etc. It wouldn't have been anywhere near as complex as my games because it would have been designed for PC and console.
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Does anybody really care?
Don't care about his opinion. I do care about him bad-mouthing the community or belittling the efforts of the SCP. Some of the people on AV might actually listen to him and get the idea that FS2_Open isn't worth trying.
Is it possible to post a thread about the SCP on Avault?
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Why would you want to?
If people want to try it, they wil, if not, who cares?
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Shadowpuppet was posting about stuff he'd like to see in FS3:
And a 3D cockpit....
And visible external stores.....
Both of which should be in SCP. (Although whether or not both are working I'm not sure.)
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You know what I like about you and those twits masquerading as FS luvas while giving the true fans a bad name? The comedy of it all and the ignorance of the inconsequential attribute that you all share.
Knobheads like that should keep their opinions to themselves...
I've never driven an Aston Martin, but I still like them...
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Haha, check out his next post. :lol:
Can I please post this. Pretty please.
http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/WIP%20Gallery/BSG%20Mod%20Promo.jpg
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Someone should point out the irony of it.
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Maybe we should point out the stencilled shadows build and ask him when he's going to produce an engine that can do that. :D
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Did it the best way you can, with a :), :lol:
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Thread is funny. DS always reminds me of this kid I knew in like...4th grade who always tried to bully people, except everybody laughed at him instead of being afraid of him. He was a funny man...
Actually, from the looks of it I'm kinda glad that a lot of those people aren't here at HLP, it should stay that way. :D
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hmm i wonder if he got no christmas presents and now he's all sad :( poor derek, he only wanted to be loved.
We could send him 30 000 copies of Zork.
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But why when one copy of the SCP will do. :)
Those who are not so petty and simple minded to blindly follow mr. smart will take a look at those images, see the value of them and realise that he's not making any sense. Those who do blindly follow him deserve not to know about the SCP and would probably not be the kind of people that we'd want here anyhow.
I think the situation requires no more input than has already been provided.
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yeah, lets not go nuts this time, K?
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Don't bring Avault people here, please! :D
Oh, yea, and like everyone's said before: let's just ignore this one for the most part.
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I think that's a bit zealous UT, there's no doubt a few of them that weren't aware of FS2/SCP and might have the talents to create some good stuff for it.
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To be honest, Derek Smart is a very small penny in a very big tin, he makes lots of noise, but it's all really just shouting down his own inner demons.
Ignore him, he's a bad rash and with any luck he'll go away and learn how to post, just once, to someone he doesn't agree with, wiithout resorting to playground insults.
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I think that's a bit zealous UT, there's no doubt a few of them that weren't aware of FS2/SCP and might have the talents to create some good stuff for it.
It was a semi-joke :p :D
Although I do want to know who the "real" Freespace fans are - could someone ask?
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By the way, who was the genious that said Inferno R2 was the next FreeSpace 3?
Please, never ever do that again -_-
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Well, that was a fun little post to write. *cracks knuckles*
http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=007940&p=2#000032
I still fail to see how calling us names and attacking us is going to further his point. We've been calm and collected about this, and all he's done is kick and ****ing scream his way through it all.
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Seriously, he's simply not worth getting into a debate with. When he first posted on his plan to get FS3, I actually defended his right to develop it as he saw fit... right up to the point he started calling the FS2 community a Cess-pit, and insulting every member of it.
He showed his true, childish colurs then, attempting a reasonable discourse will, every single time, result in the DS equivalant of 'I'm best! I'm best! Nurdy nur!'.
He'll thow insults and act in a generally immature manner, but that simply advertises who he is, it's the only way he can get attention, it's like Jack Thompson in that respect.
Ignore him.
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Does anybody really care?
Yes, he's an asshole. No, he's not going to change.
If I ever get those contacts with the Russian Mafia I intend to establish, I'll try and have him killed - but beyond that, I don't think there's anything anyone can say or do to stop him being an asshole, so why not just ignore the little media whore and kick him if you happen to walk past him in the street?
Isn't he in the USA, though? I don't think the Russian Mafia's reach is that far....perhaps you'd be better of trying the American one instead?
In either case, this is Derek Smart we're talking about. All he's doing is ranting and raving. Worst comes to worst and he does somehow come up with the licsence, I bet we could get contacts in Volition to make the story 'non-usable' and then get them to sue him for copyright infringement or something :p
And even if he makes it, it's going to suck so bad, nobody'll even bother. Any reviews are going to say it sucks and hten point to Freespace 2 as an excellent option, and then probably link to us, leading in increased traffic. :p
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Meh I just posted anyway.
http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=007940&p=2#000033
Epileptic baboon. Hahahaha. That was funny.
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Heh, trust me, I'm using willpower not to add my thoughts after the experiences with him and his pet trolls last time on Avault. It still makes me fume how I had to sit there having half his trolls calls HLP and it's community names, whilst the other half suggested we got banned for somehow insulting Avault (nobody from HLP had said one single work about Avault) just showed how deep people had to dig to find insults. Sort of flattering in a rather pathetic sort of way.
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I don't think insults are the answer really.
The real point here is that he's inadequate. His perpetual amateurism would hurt the name of the games and the community. That's really the issue. I just don't want him associated with it in any way.
If my game were insults, I'd shift comments towards his looks. If being ugly was punishable by law, he'd get the electric chair. But we're not there to do that. We do that here ;)
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I'm impressed as usual the way the FS community is handling this, frankly. We haven't said a real word of insult; simply the facts and our humble opinions on the future of Freespace, and he's taken to insults and child-like name-calling.
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Oh, I wouldn't sink to his level, not my style, I simply don't want him touching the FS3 Franchise because it will kill the chances of a resurgence of interest in Space Shooters for another 5 years at least after he releases it.
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I'm impressed as usual the way the FS community is handling this, frankly. We haven't said a real word of insult; simply the facts and our humble opinions on the future of Freespace, and he's taken to insults and child-like name-calling.
Yep, allthough whether or not we be polite, he will probley turn it into a flamewar his next post.
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So we just remain polite and on point.
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I finally get to see the infamous Derek Smart in action. He seems like a pitiful little person already.
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Heh, sod him, he's really not worth the effort.
Though it's interesting to note that DS seems to think that DaveB and some of the other FS2 development team have been dropping by to see how the SCP project is going in a community that doesn't contain the 'real' fans of the game, I'm sure they'd be interested to know they've been coming to the wrong site all these years ;)
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So we just remain polite and on point.
That's all that I (and I think the rest of the staff would agree - though I haven't asked them) can ask of this matter. The achievments of this place speak for themselves. Let Derek prove to others exactly what kind of person he is - we don't need to prove it for him. Staying civil and true is all we really need to do here.
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I think everyone who's getting hot headed and thinking about posting should chill out. We've got the moral and intellectual high ground here, having one or two people sullying that for the rest of the community would suck.
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Exactly, that's why I'm remaining out of this at the very least until my initial feelings calm down, I remember last time all to well, we let Derek wind us up until we were playing the game on his terms, ie. name calling and insults.
I have a in-born dislike of arrogance and lack of manners, so I'll leave it to other people to deal with him ;)
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So we just remain polite and on point.
I agree with that. Arguing to a brick wall is not gonna do anything other than give you a sore throat and make you grumpier. ;)
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I am going to be very polite with perhaps a touch of barbed sarcasm, and let him stoop to whatever level is low enough for him. He who shouts loudest rarely wins on the internet, after all.
Don't bring Avault people here, please! :D
Oh, yea, and like everyone's said before: let's just ignore this one for the most part.
Lets bring Avault people here. And be nice to them. We welcome new people, 'member?
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It was a pretty good post aldo.
Sort of expansive of mine, but I just downright refuse to go into his insults. After all, that's probably what he wants, since he has really no ground to stand on this issue.
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I think everyones said anything original or valid I might have had to add so Ill just say
Hear hear, to Smart being an ass, the mods being great and the SCP making everything all spanky new.
Hurrah hlp, gamewarden and freespace zone.
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there's not much a difference (from the artistic perspective) between the top modellers, texturers within our small community from your own commercial product.
Good post, but this is the only thing that I have a problem with. You know that you could easily outmodel and outtexture his whole team on a very bad day. :nod: :yes: But, I agree don't tell him that.
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Original Volition textures and models, outtexture and outmodel him.
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By the way, who was the genious that said Inferno R2 was the next FreeSpace 3?
Please, never ever do that again -_-
's truth. Not one you like to contemplate (shades of jealousy? People know what they're waiting for still with Inferno...), but several people think it. If you can't handle that, well, sounds like a personal problem.
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I enjoyed Inferno R1. But it wasn't Freespace 3. Not by a long shot.
I don't see how anyone can talk about R2 without seeing it first...
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Not really, just if people choose to think that it's their choice, but that doesn't neccesarily make it HLP's official position on the matter ;) I don't consider Inferno to be FS3 any more than I consider TI to be it, it's simply a user made campaign based on the universe of FS2. But people are free to think that, or not to do so :)
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And even if he makes it, it's going to suck so bad, nobody'll even bother. Any reviews are going to say it sucks and hten point to Freespace 2 as an excellent option, and then probably link to us, leading in increased traffic. :p
While that would be good does it make up for us having to shout down every single newbie who mentions something that happens in DS's FS3 as if it were FS canon?
Because I doubt there is anyone here who would regard his game as canon since it really is no more canon than Derelict or Inferno.
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Heh, I see the village troll has arrived in the thread, still spouting the same crap as last time :) He's a wonderful advert for Derek, don't you think?
You might want to point out to him that last time he started spouting abusive stuff in a FS3 thread he got banned by Avault, and for very good reason.
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Indeed. I just read his posts
Seriously, some people are so darn knuckleheaded its not funny. :rolleyes: :ick:
I'm half tempted to reply something to him, but he isn't worth bothering over. I'd rather have my cruiser blown up again in Eve than go and post...
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He's really not worth it, that's the one that was boasting about his 'rotating IP', honestly some people will get turned on by anything.
Last time he kept posting stupid comments all over a FS3 thread and accusing the civil ones of insulting Avault whilst calling HLP all kinds of names. He ended up getting a temp-ban. Looks like the Ventriliquists dummy hasn't changed his act alas :(
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I'm not really planning on posting on Avault again unless someone says something really egregious, or DSmart himself replies.
I have the feeling that OmegaBob and co. just plan on picking out the most inflammatory and irrelevant posts and touting it as evidence of the HLP members' apparent intolerance.
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I just hope that they dont intend to show up here and try to instigate a fight in a desperate plea to get that evidence.
Now THAT would be scary :nervous: :shake;
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Yup, I've just stated why I didn't hand around, it HIG they were insulting to, he may not be everyones favourite member, but being blatantly insulting is a whole other matter. I won't comment on DS, he gets me too annoyed, but to see Omegabob strutting around like he wasn't slapped by avault for exactly the same attitude last time is just too much.
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Great, the war has been ignited again :shaking:. But as far as I can tell, we got a nice majority of the Gaming Community behind us. GameSpy Forums don't like DS as much as we do, and pretty most forums heard about DS' reputation. Freespace 1 and 2 were featured in PCGameplay (Benelux Magazine), in an article about Space Sims and its demise, and they said that they feared the quality of a possible FS3 if it was made by Derek Smart.
So basically, if it is made, only Derek Smarts followers buy and, ironically, so will we.
(The point of this post was lost midway of its writing)
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Naaaa.. no point taking it to a war, I shouldn't even really have posted in there myself, but I wanted to set people straight on Omegabob's trolling. We are, however, allowed to politely, but firmly, state the case for our own defence, sitting in Avault calling us 'Girly men' and then being surprised when people actually respond to the insult is kinda like insulting a workmate without realising they are standing behind you.
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Again at this stage I'd ask that you don't rise to Omegabobs obvious flamebait. Let him play straight into the same net as Derek - they'll make themselves out to be trolls without anyone here having to throw an insult their way.
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That's why I'm only posted that one comment, it would have been easy to point people to his approx 12 posts consisting of 'Gore!!! > Lamespace', and questioned his own loyalty to what he is claiming to defend, but what I have said is pretty much a summarisation of the truth. Don't worry, I'm not going to start making personal imsults or the like, the first person to lose their temper loses in any confrontation, and I seriously doubt I'll even respond to him if he does post again.
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Even though I'm probably the only DS's games fan here, after reading the thread, I've never felt more proud of this community :lol:
P.S.
And no, I don't want DS to make FS3, to each his own...
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hehehe I fully support what DS is trying to do in BC and it's ilk in a way, it's everyones dream game, but it's like trying to put EvE as a single player game, the only way to do it is to either make the universe unbelievably random or unbelievably empty. Computers simply can't handle it.
In a way DS is before his time, if he had the computing power of say, 10 years time, he might be able to pull off his dream, and good luck to him, but that doesn't forgive his poor manners or beligerant attitude at all.
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An0n, you might want to consider removing the PhD stuff from that post? We're trying to prove the point we were too angry/hurt/offended to prove last time, and we can only really do that if we rise above rather than stoop below ;)
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I probably should have read this thread to the end before I posted at AV.....
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:lol:
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Do we really care about proving we're better than Pink Bananas?
You're never going to 'win' because he'll just lie his way around the issues and avoid specifics so he can't be trapped, then ignore anything you do manage to pin on him.
Trust me, I know trolling.
It's better to just either attack him fully or ignore him completely.
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Well, the truth of the matter is that I did leave Avault because of his trolling, however, there seems to be a stereotype of a 'Freespace player' inherent in that community, and a lot of that reputation has been created by the likes of DS and OmegaBob. At the moment, we are posting as we normally would discuss things and other people are flaming, leave them to make fools of themselves, which they are doing.
Last time we encountered DS and his pet, we let them wind us up with insults and unfounded accusations. We're better than that, our discussions on the Forums here prove that.
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.....No they don't.
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Well.. some of them do :p
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I'd ask you not to - I don't care what Derek thinks of us but it's important that "the world at large" doesn't see us merely trolling other forums every time someone mentions FS in a less than favourable light. Better we politely point out someone is wrong and let them show themselves to be idiots than run all over the place screaming the place down and embarassing ourselves.
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You realise that the only time HLP makes itself known to other forums is to ***** about something, right?
That in and of itself doesn't exactly endear 'us' to other communities.
Even WS and NW hate HLP, and that's quite a feat considering they share a somewhat overlapping userbase.
If you want to improve HLP's reputation, go whore all over the internet and ruthlessly attack popular targets like Dickhead and the CIC assholes.
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Simple question then... what's the point? I mean - people like Derek aren't going to change. Attacking the world at large really serves no purpose.
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Yeah, but it gets HLP a nice reputation as being just like everyone else.
At the moment you've got a reputation as facists, fundies and Freespace zealots.
If you attack popular targets, people from other communities would be all "Hey, remember back when we bombed that church? Those guys were behind us all the way" and they go forth with word that HLP was full of cool people.
It's the same principle as laughing when a delinquent punches a teacher.
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Anyway, the thread is locked now, I'll say no more than that.
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Maybe I've just gotten used to not caring what any other community thinks then. Consider it this way... are some fans of Derek Smarts work any less like zealots? Are some fans of Wing Commander any different?
I find myself wondering if this boils down to the old nVidia vs ATI debate: The hardware is different and therefore we hate it, regardless of its merits which we will deny to fuel our arguement.
I've never had time for such things. Neither BC3000 or the Wing Commander communities are flourishing with activity. The space sim genre is not what it once was and if these people insist on clinging to a damned computer game and attacking anything different then they are truly without perspective and not worth my time. I'd far rather enjoy what I have than attack what I don't care about. Leave Derek to rot, he's mouthy and his arguements baseless.
Edit: Oh... well at least the mods of AVault have some sense. Hopefully Derek will follow suit and shut up for once.
Edit 2: Say... that guy Chip is good at his job. He has a point as well.. what I like to think of as the point I was making. Everyone likes different things. Derek doesn't like FS2 and neither do some CIC members. Leave them all to rot... we have better things to do than try and convince them they're wrong. We should really be above that.
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For the main part, I agree, but I guess you can't really expect people to be called Epileptic monkeys without feeling the urge to defend themselves, maybe DS plays on that, but as I said before, it's like insulting someone in your workplace whilst not realising they are behind you. You shouldn't really be surprised if they get a bit annoyed, all in all, we would have been right to have been angry, but mostly we rose above and just stated our case. I don't really care what other people think, but I do care when people think they have carte blanche to insult us or live out those stereotypes at our expense.
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If you want to improve HLP's reputation, go whore all over the internet and ruthlessly attack popular targets like Dickhead and the CIC assholes.
Or, we could organize a Forum Roadtrip, just like we used to at Planet Half Life forums. Eh, eh?
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I'll give you that one - but it's the difference between self defence and going out looking for a fight. If push comes to shove and someone spouts out "You FSers just troll everyones forums" it's always handy to point out in each case that someone else threw the first mud. Everything after that being us setting the record straight. So far that's true - but lets keep it that way.
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Pink Bananas is one of those kids who talks **** in the schoolyard then runs crying to the teacher when someone steps up.
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there's not much a difference (from the artistic perspective) between the top modellers, texturers within our small community from your own commercial product.
Good post, but this is the only thing that I have a problem with. You know that you could easily outmodel and outtexture his whole team on a very bad day. :nod: :yes: But, I agree don't tell him that.
I was thinking of the BSG and the Star Wars stuff in particular, actually. I know it's a somewhat controversial thing to say, but I think it can be shown from the actual work done.
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Ok.
As of now I'll request that nobody try to argue with Derek or spark things off again. Hes said his part and so have we. I've requested to Chip that he monitor the PC forum and lock anything else that kicks off. I'll leave this open for a couple of hours so you guys can get this out of your systems and then I'll be locking things at this end as well.
We've kept collected and mature this far - lets not ruin it now.
Cheers.
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Fair enough, I did ask for an end to the hostilities myself, as politely as I could, but simply get ridicule for it, so I just ignored him.
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Furry nuff. I think maybe we were a bit too eager to all jump into avault, to be honest, and if that thread wasn't locked I would have said as much there. It's just that quite often DS has sought to, for lack of a better term, attack this community (not true fans, immature, etc - the usual rubbish) for being opposed to him getting the license and I kind of felt obliged to try and head that off.
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Well, I'm posting around Avault a bit anyway, it's not that terrible a place once you get past the trolls at the door. I don't want to judge the entire Avault community on just 2 members, it's not fair, but when they are such a vocal 2 members, it's hard not to :(
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That's fair enough. Personally I simply don't have the time to look at hundreds of different forums and keep up to date... so I don't. As aldo says though - Dereks dislike has been known for some time now. I don't advocate flaming the man but I have no problem with us standing up for ourselves. His PHD, career or acomplishments do not give him the right to be unpleasent to us (or anyone else) with no fear of being called on it.
Congratulations to all on keeping your heads... but sooner or later enough is enough. If we stay there and keep argueing the point for days on end then I wouldn't blame the AVault regulars for wondering what the heck we were doing.
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I'm proud of you guys. You aquitted yourselves with grance and dignity, unlike some. :nod: PC++ to all! :p
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Well, I'm posting around Avault a bit anyway, it's not that terrible a place once you get past the trolls at the door. I don't want to judge the entire Avault community on just 2 members, it's not fair, but when they are such a vocal 2 members, it's hard not to :(
Thats kind of what the BSG project went thru when we confronted that guy on leaking the alpha. A few of the trolls really flamed us, probley about even with DS. Tempers were charged and it was really rapidly heading for an all out flamefest, however MP, Omni and Deepeyes calmed us down before we could really do a whole lot of damage. And even tho it was warrented and we could have flamed them to death, it wouldn't have did any good. And we came to the same conclusion that Flip states above. There is gonna be trolls wherever you go.
I really respect the admins of here and GW, that try to get people to calm down instead of encouraging an all out war. :)
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When reading trought this topic, I suddenly had a strange feeling... It just like some cartoon series. The evil Darth Smart versus the forces of light (HLP) :D About how we barely avoided the dark side and held off the evil. And how the evil is once again trying to gain strenght.
I know the issue is dead serious. But when I was so pissed and that thought came in to my mind, it somehow felt so absurd... :lol:
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ahwwww.....
he just wouldn't let it die would he? (http://link removed)
Link removed. Sorry Bob - I know everyone could link straight over if they took the time. But I'd really like to see this drawn to a close. ::Kalfireth
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Thats what I mean when I say I asked Chip to start locking anything he digs up. I know now that none of us would've taken it any further but as you can see there he did. That's when I decided to log in myself and try and appeal to him to drop it. I doubt it'll work but at the very least Chip may see it the same way I do and lock it before it goes any further. I've no interest in having a few days of flaming from Derek. I have better things to do.
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Do I even need to do the 'Dum-dum-duuum'?
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I love how the Supreme Commander repeatedly goes out of his to say that there will be no FS3 in all capitalized letters. I guess the implication is that he is the only hope for the FS community and he's going to disappoint us all by not making it. :D
Anyway, I think we've made our point well in the other thread. If bypassers come into it (and who doesn't like looking at a locked thread? :D), it's pretty clear which side is more reasonable and well-spoken about this matter.
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I loved the way he always has to point out who 'me' is, I always giggle at that ;)
'Unless FS3 is made by me, Derek Smart, it won't get made at all'.
I'm not going to stoop to insults, I'll leave that to him, but that'll keep me smiling for a while :)
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Oh god, not derek smart again. I hate his ass..
But like many people said, lets not snoop to insults and lets keep our cool.
I think we are handeling ourselfs alot better then last time:P Eh?
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For crying out loud guys.. people are still posting over there and Derek hasn't even replied for a while.
Please let the matter drop.
I'm now locking things this end in an effort to draw things to a close.