Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rampage on September 22, 2001, 06:44:00 pm
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I got this from a friend of mine. It's very convincing.
Read it below:
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Recall Notice * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
> The Maker of all human beings is recalling all units manufactured,
> regardless of make or year, due to the serious defect in the primary and
> central component of the heart. This is due to a malfunction in the
> original prototype units code named Adam and Eve, resulting in the
> reproduction of the same defect in all subsequent units. This defect has
> been technically termed, Sub-sequential Internal Non-morality, or more
> commonly known as SIN, as it is primarily expressed.
>
> Some other symptoms:
>
> [a] Loss of direction
> Foul vocal emissions
> [c] Amnesia of origin
> [d] Lack of peace and joy
> [e] Selfish, or violent behavior
> [f] Depression or confusion in the mental component
> [g] Fearfulness
> [h] Idolatry
> Rebellion
>
> The Manufacturer, Who is neither liable nor at fault for this defect, is
> providing factory authorized repair and service free of charge to correct
> this SIN defect. The Repair Technician, Jesus, has most
> generously offered to bear the entire burden of the staggering cost of
these
> repairs.
>
> There is no additional fee required.
>
> The toll free number to call for repair in all areas is: P-R-A-Y-E-R.
>
> Once connected, please upload your burden of SIN through the
REPENTANCE
> procedure. Next, download ATONEMENT from the Repair Technician,
Jesus, into
> the heart component. No matter how big or small the SIN defect is, the
Jesus
> will replace it with:
>
> [a] Love
> Joy
> [c] Peace
> [d] Patience
> [e] Kindness
> [f] Goodness
> [g] Faithfulness
> [h] Gentleness
> Self-control
>
> Please see the operating manual, HOLY BIBLE, for further details on the
use
> of these fixes. As an added upgrade the manufacturer has made available
to
> all repaired units a facility enabling direct monitoring and assistance from
> a Resident Maintenance Technician, the Holy Spirit. Repaired units need
only
> make Him welcome and He will take up permanent residence on the
premises!
>
> WARNING: Continuing to operate the human being unit without correction
voids
> the Manufacturer's warranty, exposing the unit to dangers and problems
too
> numerous to list and will result in the human unit being permanently
> impounded.
>
> For free emergency service, call on JESUS.
>
> DANGER: The human being units not responding to this recall action will
have
> to be scrapped in the furnace. The SIN defect will not be permitted to
enter
> Heaven so as to prevent contamination of that facility.
>
> Thank you for your attention. Please assist where possible by notifying
> others of this important recall notice.
>
>
> God Bless You!
>
> CH (LTC) Hardie M. Higgins
> 130th Engineer Brigade
> Brigade Chaplain
> 322-8181
>
>
>** --------- End Original Message ----------- **
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Christ
Redeems
All
People
God is Life
[This message has been edited by Rampage (edited 09-22-2001).]
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Amen, brotha. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
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Creator of the Table Edit ("http://denebsystem0.tripod.com/tbledt.html") project.
IRC: /server twisted.ma.us.DAL.net /join #Deneb ("http://denebsystem0.tripod.com/chat.html")
Visit The Deneb System ("http://denebsystem0.tripod.com/").
Balance?! Don't you talk to me about balance when you've seen all the Sathanases the Shivans have!! - Joey_21
Checkout the System Madness II campaign ("http://denebsystem0.tripod.com/chi2orionis.html")
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Novel approach but I never put much faith in the bible (no pun intended). A book that's over a millenia old has a great deal of irrelevant material, kinda like the camel and the eye of the needle story. Taken literally you'd have no problem with the fact that it's damn hard for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle but if you know that 'the eye of the needle' is actually a gateway to a city then the saying changes perspective pretty quickly.
The best and most straightforward lesson I've found is 'love one another as I have loved you'. If you treat people with the kind of respect you'd wish them to give you then everything turns out cool (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Well, I can say with confidence that taken as a whole, nothing is irrelevant in the Bible. But I'm not going to start an argument about it...
That's a fairly clever email idea, though. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Ok, I've avoided asking you this on the assumption that it was intended to be a joke of some sort, but now that you've posted this topic I would really like to know: What is this supposed to mean:
Originally posted by Rampage:
Christ
Redeems
All
People
C.R.A.P. ?!? Personally, I find it a bit irreverent... :-/
------------------
America, stand assured that Israel truly understands what you are going through.
"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar ("http://michael.randelman.com"), the CapShip Turret Upgrade, the Complete FS2 Ship List and the System Backgrounds List (all available from the site)
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I prefer this one: God's Riches At Christ's Expense. Booyah. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Yeah, I was trying to figure out the sig too...
Well, the bible has a lot of information, some of it may be irrelevant to some people, but if nothing else, it's history... which is ALWAYS relevant information. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Lucky for me I was made with the ATHEIST™ brand morality subroutines.
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That's Funny (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
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Yeah... I'm with Shrike...
My theory on creation is quite simple.. Has nothing to do with a higher power...
At first there was nothing, which exploded.
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Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard kids! Be evil!
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Originally posted by Anduril:
Yeah, I was trying to figure out the sig too...
Well, the bible has a lot of information, some of it may be irrelevant to some people, but if nothing else, it's history... which is ALWAYS relevant information. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
I agree with you 100%, but there's one wee problem: I wrote irreverent, not irrelevant... There's a difference.
------------------
America, stand assured that Israel truly understands what you are going through.
"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar ("http://michael.randelman.com"), the CapShip Turret Upgrade, the Complete FS2 Ship List and the System Backgrounds List (all available from the site)
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Originally posted by sandwich:
I agree with you 100%, but there's one wee problem: I wrote irreverent, not irrelevant... There's a difference.
I think he was refering to my post where I pointed out that I thought a lot of the material in the bible is irrelevant in todays society, there are a lot of good points in it but a lot of them come in a downright strange context. (IMHO)
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Grrrrr...
WARNING FOR FUTURE REFERENCE: I FLAME ALL SUSPECTED EVANGELISTS
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Originally posted by Stryke 9:
Grrrrr...
WARNING FOR FUTURE REFERENCE: I FLAME ALL SUSPECTED EVANGELISTS
Then bring it on. We'll just laugh at your persecution.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor:
I think he was refering to my post where I pointed out that I thought a lot of the material in the bible is irrelevant in todays society, there are a lot of good points in it but a lot of them come in a downright strange context. (IMHO)
All I was referring to was Rampages' siggy... CRAP. It seemed a bit irreverent.
About the Bible being "out-dated", yes - many of the phrases of speech and parables have had their full meaning lost in the depths of time, but as a whole, I like it. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Stryke: If you don't like calm discussions about religon, then don't come to the topic. But if I can take your post at face value, then I don't think you need to worry: nobody's going to try to evangelize anyone on a public forum. While I have nothing at all against evangelizing, public forums are most definetly not the place for it. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/cool.gif)
------------------
America, stand assured that Israel truly understands what you are going through.
"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar ("http://michael.randelman.com"), the CapShip Turret Upgrade, the Complete FS2 Ship List and the System Backgrounds List (all available from the site)
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or not even for discussing religion at all...
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I agree. They just attract flames like flames attract various flying insects.
Stryke, I know how you feel, but just leave it. You don't have to read this thread.
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Overall Performance
Your lack of faith disturbs me.
------------------
Christ
Redeems
All
People
God is Life
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Hehe I already had recall fixed a couple of years ago.
It doesn't really matter what religion you are the information about the Jewish, Romans, Persians, etc. Is very reliable and there has yet to be anything that has been proven wrong in there also.
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Originally posted by Jabu:
Stryke, I know how you feel, but just leave it. You don't have to read this thread.
I know, but it passes the time. And the religious chatrooms/forums ARE notoriously plagued by flooders (I know a few guys who see to that... idiots, but they must provide a third of the total posts on the entire internet). Still, NO PREACHING. Still serves even if you haven't started yet.
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(http://koti.mbnet.fi/jabu/christ.jpg)
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Religion offends me-
Own and delete
Rampage: take your religion and stick it up your arse
Those who don't know how to put their will into things at least put a meaning into them: that is, they have faith that a will is already in them (principle of "faith").
Nietzsche, The Twilight of Idols (Richard Polt Translation) pg 7
It is our wild nature that we best recover from our un-nature, our spirituality...
Nietzsche, The Twilight of Idols (Richard Polt Translation) pg 5
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Originally posted by Setekh:
I prefer this one: God's Riches At Christ's Expense. Booyah. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
you know what's pathetic? my mother coined that term
I'm not kidding.. she really is the one that coined that term.. disgusting
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Originally posted by Stryke 9:
Grrrrr...
WARNING FOR FUTURE REFERENCE: I FLAME ALL SUSPECTED EVANGELISTS
I shoot them, they pollute our gene pool
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Originally posted by Joey_21:
Then bring it on. We'll just laugh at your persecution.
oh contrar monfrair
you are the persecutor, throughout history
We're screaming because your ignorance does us pain - we're bucking at your persecution of the intelligent peoples of this planet
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Originally posted by sandwich:
Stryke: If you don't like calm discussions about religon, then don't come to the topic.
i beleive he would agree that religion should be done away with all togeather - it's a pyschological crutch and control device for the masses and it is preventing the betterment of our species
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Originally posted by Rampage:
Your lack of faith disturbs me.
your faith in a pyschological crutch (basically a very powerful and damaging drug in it's effects) disturbs me
your brain is posioned, your logic is flawed.
If you attempt to argue with me - it's all a point of view thing.
I am educated in christianity - i reject it with force. I see the blinders you put on, the limitations you place upon yourself by having 'faith'. The errors in your thinking.
It's like after you lose your virginity - you can look around and by ones behavior you can tell if they are a virgin or not. Before hand you couldn't tell the difference.
Wisdom my friend, it's being withheld from you - by yourself
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OOOOOHHHHHH KAY!!! Time for me to put the proverbial boot down. I was wondering if it was possible to have a civil discussion of something like this but there are people who need to get in your face when it comes to religion.
If you can't say something constructive then don't say anything at all, people who are religious generally have deep rooted beliefs, just because you claim they are 'full of sh1t' won't do anything other than give them more resolve in their beliefs. You end up wasting their time and more importantly your own time.
Slamming someone elses way of thinking invalidates your point of view, afterall who wants to listen to someone who won't listen to them?
BTW this might count as preaching but it needs to be said ummm kay.
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Originally posted by CODEDOG ND:
Is very reliable and there has yet to be anything that has been proven wrong in there also.
or anything proven right for that matter
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Originally posted by Maeglamor:
Slamming someone elses way of thinking invalidates your point of view, afterall who wants to listen to someone who won't listen to them?
both parties do it- it's the way of things
I am not slamming their point of view - im stating my digust in it and trying to crack open the prison they have placed their minds in
Free Your Mind
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Originally posted by Kazan:
I am not slamming their point of view - im stating my digust in it and trying to crack open the prison they have placed their minds in
That's not your place even if it were true, who made you god? (pun intended)
[This message has been edited by Maeglamor (edited 09-23-2001).]
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Kazan- your allying with my beliefs gives theirs more credence than mine. Shutting your ears and eyes- no matter which way you go- is ignorance and stupidity, plain and simple. The stuff wars and genocides (as well as most other major crimes) are made of. Simply saying "I'm atheist" and thinking no more on the topic is just as bad as saying "I'm Unitarian", "I'm a Republican", or "I hate the US". They're all crutches, whether you made an informed decision about your crutch of choice is immaterial.
If God suddenly appeared and told me that he existed, or things started happening that neither science nor logic could explain (a burning bush don't cut it, but some other stuff there does), then I will start believing in God. But since facts don't seem to support his existence, and religion in many cases HAS become a crutch for the intellectually lazy (which it isn't always- I know man people who have reasoned it out for them selves and think deeply on the topic. as opposed to the average rosary-clutching granny who when asked about religion will say something fatuous about Jesus), I count myself an atheist-agnostic. I am open to all beliefs, religious or otherwise, but I make no assumptions and I'll be damned if some damned small-town Jerry Falwell or a vague book of oral legends several thousands of years old (or, in the case of New Testament, several hundred) convert me.
WExcuse the extensive comments, but I'm trying to pack a 30-page summary into a few paragraphs to get the idea across.
Everyone: If you have either a new or well-thought-through perspective on the subject of life, the universe, and everything, by all means post. But if I suspect you of preaching without thinking on my turf, all hell WILL break loose.I het' ignants!
[This message has been edited by Stryke 9 (edited 09-23-2001).]
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Originally posted by Stryke 9:
Simply saying "I'm atheist" and thinking no more on the topic is just as bad as saying "I'm Unitarian", "I'm a Republican", or "I hate the US".
I have thought much on the subject, turned it around in my mind. looked at every edge, every face, every vertex and the more I look about it the more I think about it the more repulsed I become.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9:
or things started happening that neither science nor logic could explain
human nature - attribute the unexplainable to a 'god' or something.
Now what if 2000 years later science could explain it, would you want your descendants to stick onto a false beleive or see that it was a mistake?
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Originally posted by Stryke 9:
intellectually lazy (which it isn't always- I know man people who have reasoned it out for them selves and think deeply on the topic. as opposed to the average rosary-clutching granny who when asked about religion will say something fatuous about Jesus)
I wasn't saying anything about intellectual lazyness
I was talking about the logically impaired. I think like nietzsche (and now that i read him i find how much i think like him). He puts the things out a bit more eloquently than I.
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Logic. Logic is whatever you think is logical- you can ask 30 different people about what sort of things logically could happen, and if you didn't interview them all in the same place, you'd get 30 different answers. A spontaneously combusting bush could exist just as logically if there's a god as a magnet can lift a paperclip whether there ids or isn't. Think about it.
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People who I have just lost a great deal of respect for:
KAZAN
STRYKE_9
Anyone else want to make the list?
Out of almost 400 subscribed members to these forums, you two are the only ones who are seeing this as an opportunity to start a flame war. If you do not feel you are adult enough to discuss this kind of topic in a civilized manner then for the good of all of us here please don't read or post to this kind of discussion.
To the moderators of this forum, I apologize for stealing a little bit of your thunder, but I feel I speak for more than just myself.
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Who's flaming? I just stated that I'm through with hearing people spout truisms about God0 either way they go. By all means, start this "Civilized Discussion". I'm willing to lay odds that it could not take off here, but I've seen stranger things- ones on the VBB even. I'd love to see what people have to say on the matter, but if it resorts to this... trash, then I might as well throw my sh1t to smother the flaming sh1t in sh1t, no?
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Plus, to my eternal credit( (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)), I haven't insulted anybody- yet.
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Originally posted by jonskowitz:
you two are the only ones who are seeing this as an opportunity to start a flame war.
im not flaming.. you haven't seen me flaming
add yourself to that list because you're flaming us by your def (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Kazan (edited 09-23-2001).]
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Originally posted by Stryke 9:
A spontaneously combusting bush could exist just as logically if there's a god as a magnet can lift a paperclip whether there ids or isn't. Think about it.
my point exactly
there is a bush that has a very oily sap that can spontaneously combust without consuming the plant (son of it seeps out... concentraits...)
All these things they take a proof are explainable - if not now eventually. You cannot attribute something you cannot explain to a deity - that is intellectual sloth
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Ugh. I retract my statement. If Kazan can claim he wasn't flaming with a straight face, I could convince myself of same. To paraphrase a famous repulsive Republican, I hope to set an example by retiring from this topic!
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perhaps you misunderstand being honest with flaming
two greatly different things
Just sometimes honesty isn't nice and watered down with being politically correct
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I didn't mean that you did it intentionally... But yo were a little more agressive than is ever acceptable for such a topic... think Jerry Fallwell. I was saying that if you weren't intentionally flaming, I must be unintentionally doing so as well. And you don't have to be PC (I make a point of never being when it inconveniences me... which is nearly always) to follow common human courtesies... such as treating humans as such. That rebuttal completed, I will one again attempt to abandon this topic to the vultures and proselytizers (sp?).
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I don't want to get on anyone's case here...but Kazan, you're being pretty aggressive. I'm pretty annoyed at the fact that you made SIX consecutive posts...consolidate them, for crying out loud!
This is a dangerous topic...I was suprised to see it last a whole day, but I agree with Jabu that if you have a problem with religion, don't discuss it! Ignore the thread! If religion offends you, don't talk about it! Nobody makes you read this thread. Just don't argue about it. You'll just cause bad feelings with those of us who do have some sort of faith, and that kind of argument is completely nonproductive. If you want to present an atheist viewpoint, do it respectfully! I don't want to pick on Kazan, but "stick your religion up your arse" and "I shoot evangelists" and "your brain is poisoned" and a dozen more do NOT impress me as respectful OR reasonable discussion.
Just reread Maeglamor's comment(putting the boot down)...agree 100%.
Not that I think it will change the way certian people respond to this topic...
As for my opinion on religion, my beliefs are based on exercising faith, and having it justified again and again...let's just say that I know for myself, and that I have more than enough evidence.
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I hope to bring this topic from the "talking about having a reasoned discussion about religon" stage to the "having a reasoned discussion about religon" stage. So:
Kazan: I can see your POV, and in some ways I agree with it. Religious people can get extremely "in-your-face" and pushy with what they believe is "right". Believe me, I face it a lot here in Israel - probably more than anyone else on these boards.
Speaking personally, I do not consider myself religious. I have a faith in God, that He created all things, etc etc. I have no absolute, scientific proof; if I did, it wouldn't be faith, would it?
But when I look at virtually anything in the world and universe around us, I see evidence of a Creator. The complexities of the human body (and here I think you would agree with me) are far to intricate for evolution. The "million monkeys on a million typewriters" analogy.
Speaking personally again: I do not go out to the streets and evangelize. It's just not "me". But what I do do is try to set examples to those around me. When I was in the IDF reserves a month ago, soilders would start asking me where I came from (originally the US), why the heck I was here instead of safely back in the States (this was b4 the WTC attacks), etc. I told them that I believe in the Bible, and that God's chosen people are the Jewish people, adn that I believed this with all my heart even though I was (to them) a "Christian".
But that did not touch them nearly as much as the simple fact that I was serving alongside them, risking my life for this tiny Jewish nation. And they came out and said so to my face a couple of times.
That is what my faith is.
Any questions? (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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America, stand assured that Israel truly understands what you are going through.
"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar ("http://michael.randelman.com"), the CapShip Turret Upgrade, the Complete FS2 Ship List and the System Backgrounds List (all available from the site)
[This message has been edited by sandwich (edited 09-24-2001).]
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Originally posted by Kazan:
Rampage: take your religion and stick it up your arse
Originally posted by Kazan:
im not flaming.. you haven't seen me flaming
Right.
*shrugs* I thought you were within reason Kazan, and I tried to convince the other HLP staffers of the same once upon a time, reserving my judgement. I'm still going to reserve my judgement, but I'm no longer going to reserve anyone else's.
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nor did I ask you to setekh... people's judgement should be "Kazan finds religion repulsive" - generally what was the message i was trying to get across.
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Teehee! Religion topic, yay! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Heh, this is turning out just the way it's expected to... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
As for my own opinion, I'd like to quote a bumper sticker I saw some time back on a random car - one that I'd gladly put on my own car if I found it:
"It's not like I'm religious, but God rules!"
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Originally posted by Styxx:
Heh, this is turning out just the way it's expected to... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
And not only in forums actually.
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(http://koti.mbnet.fi/jabu/occam.gif)
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Originally posted by Jabu:
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/jabu/occam.gif)
(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
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http://www.ffrf.org/lfif/contra.html ("http://www.ffrf.org/lfif/contra.html") http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/tcont.htm ("http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/tcont.htm") http://www.atheists.org/church/contradictions.html ("http://www.atheists.org/church/contradictions.html") http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7273/biblicalcontradictions.html ("http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7273/biblicalcontradictions.html")
Here's a list of a few websites that point out the Contradictions in the Bible - Courtesy of Jabu (He postend them in a Warpstorm thread) It saves people like Kazan Stryke 9 and a few others explaining them to the ignorant religious people amongst us who are probably going to ignore them as they have done to a lot of other obvious or proven things.
[This message has been edited by Top Gun (edited 09-24-2001).]
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About those contradictions: I have not read them all, not do I plan on responding to them all. One did catch my eye, however:
Thou shalt not kill.
That is a mistranslation from the original. The Hebrew states: "Lo tirtzach". "Lo" = no, negative, etc. "Tirtzach" is from the root word "Retzach", which is "murder".
I know that there are many other points in those pages. Bring 'em up one at a time and I'll try to answer.
I actually am looking forward to this - it's a good challenge. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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America, stand assured that Israel truly understands what you are going through.
"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar ("http://michael.randelman.com"), the CapShip Turret Upgrade, the Complete FS2 Ship List and the System Backgrounds List (all available from the site)
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Originally posted by Kazan:
oh contrar monfrair
deleted rest of post because there's nothing wrong with it...
the Frech should be : 'à contraire mon frère' or something like that (french is rusty, as it should be) (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Kazan:
I think like nietzsche (and now that i read him i find how much i think like him).
Don't claim it too loud. Nietzche was brilliant, but he also inspired Hitler. Not his fault, ok, but some ideas of his own are... well, wrong in today' standards.
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Originally posted by Kazan:
oh contrar monfrair
you are the persecutor, throughout history
We're screaming because your ignorance does us pain - we're bucking at your persecution of the intelligent peoples of this planet
Right... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/rolleyes.gif)
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Originally posted by Kazan:
oh contrar monfrair
Huh? Oh my god (if I can allow myself (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif))
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The problem with those contradiction lists is that they are taken completely out of context...for example:
ON DEALING WITH PERSONAL INJURY
"...thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. " -- Exodus 21:23-25
"...ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." -- Matthew 5:39
The first statement is part of the Law of Moses, given to the Israelites after they failed at trying to live the higher law. The higher law of "turning the other cheek" was reestablished by Christ, and if you read the new testament completely, he states that the new law supercedes the old one.
ON CIRCUMCISION
"This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised." -- Genesis 17:10
"...if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." -- Galatians 5:2
The same thing here...when Christ came and fulfilled his purpose through the atonement, he fulfilled the Law of Moses, which included the law of circumsision...so circumsision was no longer necessary, and no longer mattered.
I can respond to a lot more of these, like Sandwich I think they will make an interesting exercise. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) Only if people really want answers, though...I'm not going to give myself a wrist injury typing out stuff nobody will read. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
By the way, I consider myself extremely religious, but I have no problem with "proof." I stand confident that any APPARENT contradiction can be explained, and whether or not I can figure it out now, I will someday. If there is a God who is all-powerful, how can mere mortals like us claim to have "proof" that contradicts him? If there isn't than fine, but I believe there is.
As for Occams Razor, I actually think that it SUPPORTS the idea of a supreme being...you really think that all this happening by accident is SIMPLER than there being a creator?
Just more of my thoughts. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
-Anduril
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The problem with those contradiction lists is that they are taken completely out of context...for example:
ON DEALING WITH PERSONAL INJURY
"...thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. " -- Exodus 21:23-25
"...ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." -- Matthew 5:39
The first statement is part of the Law of Moses, given to the Israelites after they failed at trying to live the higher law. The higher law of "turning the other cheek" was reestablished by Christ, and if you read the new testament completely, he states that the new law supercedes the old one.
ON CIRCUMCISION
"This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised." -- Genesis 17:10
"...if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." -- Galatians 5:2
The same thing here...when Christ came and fulfilled his purpose through the atonement, he fulfilled the Law of Moses, which included the law of circumsision...so circumsision was no longer necessary, and no longer mattered.
I can respond to a lot more of these, like Sandwich I think they will make an interesting exercise. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) Only if people really want answers, though...I'm not going to give myself a wrist injury typing out stuff nobody will read. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
By the way, I consider myself extremely religious, but I have no problem with "proof." I stand confident that any APPARENT contradiction can be explained, and whether or not I can figure it out now, I will someday. If there is a God who is all-powerful, how can mere mortals like us claim to have "proof" that contradicts him? If there isn't than fine, but I believe there is.
As for Occams Razor, I actually think that it SUPPORTS the idea of a supreme being...you really think that all this happening by accident is SIMPLER than there being a creator?
One more thing on contradiction finding- you can create falsehoods out of nothing, but truth is something that can be neither created nor destroyed. If you can find an element of truth, and be completely secure about it, then no number of apparent falsehoods can prove that truth wrong.
For millenia, just about everyone thought the sun revolved around the earth...until we gained a better perspective and found out the truth. We can play this game for years, pointing out apparent contradictions and apparent solutions...but really the only way to solve it in your own mind is to find out for yourself if God exists, and establish the truth for yourself.
Just more of my thoughts...sorry if they're a bit scattered. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
-Anduril
[This message has been edited by Anduril (edited 09-24-2001).]
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Alright, this is annoying me. Closed.
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Oh, and don't ******* email/ICQ me about closed topics! I've gotten sick of listening to various people whine and complain about their topics. If it's actually reasonable and interesting, there's no reason for me to close it, is there? So stop trying to pound your opinions into each other.