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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Axem on January 09, 2006, 10:40:57 pm

Title: A "carrier"
Post by: Axem on January 09, 2006, 10:40:57 pm
I use that term loosely since it's more of a giant box with a hangar inside... :nervous:

For times when a destroyer is too costly to deploy, but you need something to support the fighter wings. This "Tactical Deployment Platform" (tentative name) docks with a Triton Freighter and allows fighters to refuel, repair and rearm. The Triton could just leave this thing by itself, but it'd be screwed once any enemy came (It think I may just give it a single turret). The top hangar is the launch bay, and the bottom is the recieving bay (I know that this can't be specified with the SCP yet, but oh well).

So yeah... I've mostly been working on the front of this thing. The rear is still pretty bare and needs a lot of work.

So opinions and whatnot?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/tdp2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/tdp3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/tdp4.jpg
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: WeatherOp on January 09, 2006, 10:42:44 pm
Cool. :D
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Nuke on January 09, 2006, 10:49:21 pm
axems getting good. if he gets good at texturing il have some competition :D
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 09, 2006, 10:51:09 pm
I had an idea for something like that, except that the Triton was mated to the carrier section, and was itself heavily armored and mounting additional weapons, including a small anti-cap beam in the front of the ventral engine strut.  It was to be the Wolf class Pocket Destroyer, converted and used by Pirates.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: boewolf on January 09, 2006, 10:57:21 pm
Its about time that the GTVA developed something that can be used to recover fighters and what not on short notice.   :yes:

It could always be deployed with a few gun turrets stationed around for a bit of defence......
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: kv1at3485 on January 09, 2006, 11:08:19 pm
Ah, I remember back in the day when I still had time to FRED and used the standard Triton pod as a 'fighter module'.  I had to have the fighters 'appear' beside the three boxes along each side of the pod.  Of course, 'launching' could only occur when the frieghter and pod were stationary, and there was no recovery...

It was an even better idea than the Faustus-class cruiser...
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: TrashMan on January 10, 2006, 05:49:29 am
Niiiiice..

But I would make it bigger. It's in space so hauling really big cargo is no problem for a Tritorn...especialyl since it's by default faster than any terran warship. Besides, you deen t be able to supply/repair/launch at least two wings to make it worthwhile.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Col. Fishguts on January 10, 2006, 06:27:26 am
Good idea, very well executed.

Give it maps loosely matching the Triton's, and it will be a winner :yes:
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Axem on January 10, 2006, 07:44:59 am
Unless there was something screwy with the scaling on export, I think it's large enough. If you pack them in, the TDP can carry 2 full squadrons of fighters, plus a wing of bombers (or another squad of fighters). That should be sufficient for whatever you send this to.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/tdpfighters.jpg
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: TrashMan on January 10, 2006, 09:11:02 am
Hmm....  my sense of scale of the Triton must be off.. Then again FS2 sense of scale is somewhat off too LOL

I don't tink it should carry bombers as they would need LARGE hangar entrances and a lot of room, not only to land and move around inside that thing, but for storage of ammo, fuel and spare parts...not to mention crew quarters.

But it's exceelent. I'll be one of hte first to download it once it's done.
Adn yes..give it turrets.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Black Wolf on January 10, 2006, 09:37:42 am
Why would it need turrets though? It launches fighters- surely they're far more dangerous than a few flak guns? Surely not everything needs to be turreted.

That said, it's an excellent model - shame it's taken this long for anyone to get around to making something like this - would have been awesome for LM. What sort of textures are you looking at doing?
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Roanoke on January 10, 2006, 12:43:36 pm
I did a Trition Cargo Box with a couple of openings as a disposeable Fighter carrier ages ago. Can't remember who for. Maybe Mad Bomber.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: StratComm on January 10, 2006, 02:18:34 pm
I love the idea (and the execution is awesome too :nod: ).  I'd love to see this concept used more often and may look inito making one myself.  A boarding craft maybe, and almost certainly an RBC-Tri, would be good candidates.  Though the Carrier module is probably the best option of all of them.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Axem on January 10, 2006, 03:30:10 pm
An Ursa won't fit through the top bay, but it can go through the bottom bay. If an Ursa can fit through, anything can ;) ('Cept maybe a Jotun :nervous: ). I'm trying to do my best to consider the space for everything. With it all packed in like that, you wouldn't have too much room for supplies anyway. So something like 2 fighter squads max, or a fighter squad and a bomber wing.

I don't see a pressing need for turrets. The thing isn't meant to see any combat, and the Triton it would be docked with has its down defenses. I think maybe just one to expand the defensive screen a bit.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: TrashMan on January 10, 2006, 04:22:11 pm
I figure something so tacticly valubale (not to mention something that holds lot's of humans) should be adequatly defended. After all it IS docked with a triton, but a Triton can haul it somewhere and undock and leave. It should be able to have at least SOME defense.

Id's say two turrets..mehku lasers or something similar.

@StratComm - it is a great ida. I belive I do have some cargo container I modified on my HD that perform different roles. One is a a weapons platform (with 4 turrets) and hte other I think I deleted. Meh..
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Taristin on January 10, 2006, 04:36:36 pm
I figure something so tacticly valubale (not to mention something that holds lot's of humans) should be adequatly defended. After all it IS docked with a triton, but a Triton can haul it somewhere and undock and leave. It should be able to have at least SOME defense.

It does. They're called fighters.
Really, all carriers should be minimally armed. Giving them a lot of armament would make it a warship with  a large hanger, rather than a carrier.

This shouldn'tbe too different. one turret, if that.

Edit: note that i'm not arguing with you. One or two mekhu turets shoul suffice.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Nuke on January 10, 2006, 08:40:29 pm
my opinion of carriers is that they should be defended against fighters. with a flak screen or something. should the carriers fighters be overwelmed they can fly closer to the carrier to make use of its af turrets. its fighters and bombers are its offensive force to be used against larger targets. it should also have speed so it can out run larger capships.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Flipside on January 10, 2006, 09:10:39 pm
I suppose the only basis we have to go on it Modern shipping tactics, where a 'Carrier' usually has a fleet of Tico's or the like with heavy Anti-Bomber/Missile defences. The actual 'Carrier' section itself (nice model btw ;)) would be pretty cheap to manufacture, due to the lack of weapons, so you could have 3-4 small carriers surrounded by Cruisers and possibly a couple of Corvettes as an Escort.

Does the Capship AI, when set to defending another Capship, attempt to shoot down bombs and missiles headed for the ship it is defending? If so, I see that as still being a perfectly workable practice.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Fade Rathnik on January 10, 2006, 09:29:11 pm
Modern carriers have the CIWS to engage targets and missiles close in i dont see a reason why a portable fighter garrison shouldnt have a 360 degree CIWS to shoot down warheads and small craft that get to close. If you think about the envestement in man power and equiptment to mantain 2 wings of spacecraft it boads at least a compitent envestment in the selfdefence array. Flak would be best imo, maybe even a AAAbeam to protect the fighter bay. However i still think that the fighters would still bare most of the defencive weight.  I think that the special ops applications of such a unit are massive. it would make a perfect forced recon post, small, portible, and most impotantly easy to hide especially in an asteroid field.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Solatar on January 10, 2006, 09:47:22 pm
Kickass...*wants one for the Chronos so he can use it in fs1 era*
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: DaBrain on January 11, 2006, 12:20:40 pm
Wow Axem goes 2in1 !!!

Great model and an innovative idea.  :yes:

I'd be honored to texture it for you. :)
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Axem on January 11, 2006, 08:25:22 pm
It'll get one flak turret, which is more meant to protect the control tower than the rest of the... "ship." Protection is provided by cruisers or the fighter wings stationed on it (That's how its going to be in a campaign I'm making this for ;) ). If there's enough people who want one that could be dropped off as a mini command center, I could make a variant with a bit more in the defense department.

Anyway updated pic. It's almost done. I want to add a radar dish on top, 'cause I like spinny things. :D I also changed the top hangar so it doesn't look like I stole the front end of an Omega Destroyer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/tdp5.jpg

Poly count... well, it's pretty damn good if you use a base 8000 counting system. The model is horribly unoptimized and there's a few things I want to take out. And I'm using this as an exercise to discover different ways of adding detail and greebling. I hope to have it around 5k when its all done (Which means if you use the high poly Triton you get a 9000 poly carrier).
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: BlackDove on January 11, 2006, 08:31:54 pm
Pretty awesome. Good job.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: WMCoolmon on January 12, 2006, 01:55:25 am
Sweet. Where are all the polies coming from tho?
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Nuke on January 12, 2006, 07:44:00 am
Sweet. Where are all the polies coming from tho?

bevels cost alot. thats why ragarok has 15000. infact they cost so much you could probibly make a second lod by just simply removing them.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Flipside on January 12, 2006, 10:27:25 am
I used to make the mistake of bevelling the surface itself rather than simply creating a bevelled part and putting it on top, that used to eat a helluva lot of polies :(
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Axem on January 12, 2006, 08:25:02 pm
Yeah, I went on a bevelling binge, it really took off. I recovered though. I took away most of the subtle extrusions and bevelling, and cleaned the model up the best I could.

Poly count is now 5700, which I'll take. I'll force myself to make a sub 300 poly turret and keep the whole LOD0 under 6k. I tried using the Triton turret, but its a bit too big and too high poly. I like making turrets anyway. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/tdp6.jpg
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Nuke on January 12, 2006, 11:19:18 pm
yea i used to make prefab turrets and plan to use them on everything, but i like making them so much that i never used em :D
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 13, 2006, 12:37:33 am
Does the Capship AI, when set to defending another Capship, attempt to shoot down bombs and missiles headed for the ship it is defending? If so, I see that as still being a perfectly workable practice.

Capships attempt to shoot down any bomb that passes through their engagement area. I know this from playing "Into The Maelstrom" and noting that the NTF bombers would launch from outside the convoy at a ship on the other side, but the ships on the near side would shoot at the bombs.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: WMCoolmon on January 13, 2006, 01:37:45 am
Turrets give priority to bombs. There was a big discussion about this on Mantis. :D
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Nuke on January 13, 2006, 10:16:13 am
im curious if the ai prioritizes bombs based on type or warhead yield. im curious cause i have a decoy bomb that launches little submunitions that overwealm the turrets. fighters launch them to assist in a ragnarok missile strike. more warheads get through the turret screen. while they apear to work, im curious if the ai is smart enough to shoot down the nukes instead.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Janos on January 13, 2006, 11:33:03 am
im curious if the ai prioritizes bombs based on type or warhead yield. im curious cause i have a decoy bomb that launches little submunitions that overwealm the turrets. fighters launch them to assist in a ragnarok missile strike. more warheads get through the turret screen. while they apear to work, im curious if the ai is smart enough to shoot down the nukes instead.

Pilots in World War 2 knew how to use decoys to confuse enemy defence, and how to use tactical strikes to strip important targets of their defence assets, but that's not going to slow the Command down! Damn those century-old traditions, we're living in the Beam Age SEND IN THE CANNON FODDER
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Axem on June 06, 2006, 04:15:45 pm
Mega-super-ultra-because-its-my-thread-bump!

Because I, and I'm sure lots of other people, don't want to see this fade away into the abyss of time and eventual hard drive crashes, I hereby release an unfinished, partially UV mapped "fighterbay in a cargo container."

Included is the ship in 3ds format, wings format, and the UV map for the turret, spires and radar dish. I added detailed interiors to the fighter bays to make use of subobject lodding. Without them it stands at 6300 polys, with the detailed bays on its 10,000. If you want to modify it a bit, to optimize it or fix an error, that's fine.

Have fun UV mappers and texturers!

http://www.game-warden.com/narfin/models/TDP.rar
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Scooby_Doo on June 07, 2006, 02:08:28 am
Nice  :)

I'm getting some strong vibes from it.. Use it as the forward section of a bigger carrier.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Gregster2k on June 07, 2006, 02:17:48 am
I could see one of these docked to a larger ship as a second fighterbay XD

Oh God, Axem, you should keep going and make "accessories" for other ships as well! Like something to stick on a Deimos class or something :D What next, a Mjolnir modified to fit in a Triton nice and snuggly? :) This is reminding me of that thingy someone made that stuck into the hole in the middle of an Arcadia to give it more firepower.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Mars on June 07, 2006, 10:23:06 am
I just want to see this for it's intended purpose... if I can figure out how to finish and UV map it...
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: aldo_14 on June 07, 2006, 10:23:44 am
A Chronos / Ma'at mountable fighterbay would be quite handy for TVW bods, I'm imagine.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Mars on June 07, 2006, 10:28:27 am
Chronos might be a bit small, you have to figure that an Ursa barely fits between the cockpit and thruster mount on that thing.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Scooby_Doo on June 07, 2006, 10:12:49 pm
Well I've thrown something together ah-hock for the moment with bits and pieces of my collection, I really like the bays on the original model
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/enterprise1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/enterprise1.jpg)


I'm starting to play around with UVing the original model. The beveled sections shouldn't be too hard to do, piece by piece. Although, it's going to take a while


Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Mars on June 07, 2006, 10:15:40 pm
I'm going to try and make one for its original use, a Triton carrier module, but if somone who knows what they're doing will try, it will go a lot faster.

How do you do the fancy thing with LODs so the fighterbay isn't always so high-poly?
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Scooby_Doo on June 08, 2006, 12:13:23 am
How do you do the fancy thing with LODs so the fighterbay isn't always so high-poly?

I'd like to know too, I know it needs to be a seperate subsystem, but thats all I know.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: AlphaOne on June 08, 2006, 05:48:16 am
Nice pics of these ships guys! They are really sexy looking ships. Altough  I liked the first model of the Triton carrier better the second one looks like its been in frontal crash or something.

Dont get me wrong the second one is sexy looking to but I like'em a lil' bit sleeker.

Nice ones. Hope to be able to play a campign with these models soon! :D
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Colonol Dekker on June 08, 2006, 05:54:14 am
Well I've thrown something together ah-hock for the moment with bits and pieces of my collection, I really like the bays on the original model
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/enterprise1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/enterprise1.jpg)


I'm starting to play around with UVing the original model. The beveled sections shouldn't be too hard to do, piece by piece. Although, it's going to take a while

Scooby man, You have got an excellent Confederation style, The best uniformity to a fleet since the Victory battlegroups advancement to Kilrah.

DEKKER >>>>  "Awe"
Are these all going to be released as a pack?
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: AlphaOne on June 08, 2006, 06:07:12 am
Also i'm somewhat confused as to how many fighters that thing can actualy carry can someone iluminate me??
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Axem on June 08, 2006, 08:54:09 am
AlphaOne:
Unless there was something screwy with the scaling on export, I think it's large enough. If you pack them in, the TDP can carry 2 full squadrons of fighters, plus a wing of bombers (or another squad of fighters). That should be sufficient for whatever you send this to.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/tdpfighters.jpg

People interested in subobject LODing: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,33330.0.html (Bob's first post)
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Flipside on June 08, 2006, 10:39:59 am
I'm sort of playing round with UVing this at the moment, it's not going to be quick though, I suppose I could do it the 'quick' way, but I can always see my own shortcuts.

I'll see how things go :)
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Scooby_Doo on June 08, 2006, 03:50:04 pm
Cool I'll let flipside do the UVing then (besides you've got better Freespace style texturing than what I can do) :-)
Colonol, as soon as I get the subobject loding done, i'll be posting it.

Thanks Axem for the link, and thanks for the great model.

BTW, doesn't it kinda resemble a modified B5 Omega destroyer's front section?
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Axem on June 08, 2006, 04:24:40 pm
Yay, people are doing stuff with it. :D

Scooby_Doo: Hehe, sorta. I liked the spires on the Omega (and other B5 ships) and borrowed the idea, and at first the top fighterbay was a lot more similar to the Omega's but tweaked it a bit later.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Amon_Re on June 08, 2006, 05:18:52 pm
Hey Axem, wanna do an Vasudan "arcadia"?  ;7
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Axem on June 08, 2006, 05:23:30 pm
Sorry but no. I have quite a bit on my plate as it is, and it'd probably either be not worked on for months or forgotten.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Mars on June 08, 2006, 05:31:31 pm
Also i'm somewhat confused as to how many fighters that thing can actualy carry can someone iluminate me??

Read this thread, it tells you.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: AlphaOne on June 09, 2006, 03:19:35 am
Umm so that thing can carry 100 spacecrafts??? Thta the complement of an Orion isnt it.

Oh heres something i wanted to ask if the Orion carries some 100 fighters and BOMBERS with the bommers beeing actualy 2 or 3 times the size of a fighter then by putting solely fighters in it could you actualy increase the number of spacecrafts a ship can carry?
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Axem on June 09, 2006, 08:45:02 am
Sure.

Now in my pic that had the fighters inside a wireframe of my carrier, I was able to fit 24 fighters and 3 bombers. However this would leave little room for anything else. So perhaps 24 fighters, or 12 fighers and 3 bombers, or 6 bombers. Of course being a mission designer, you could flaunt this and make however many fighters you want come out. Be it 5 fighters, 100 bombers, or even 9 Colossuses in there if you so choose.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: TrashMan on June 09, 2006, 05:40:15 pm
I could allready immagine hte shivan faces when they engage this vesel..


*Screee...screeee*   "Small enemy vessel. neutralize it"

"Shivans inbound. Abattle stations! Launch the COLOSSUSSES/COLOSSI!!!"

*WTFSCREEEE????*
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Scooby_Doo on June 09, 2006, 07:06:04 pm
HAHAHA 100 Collussi come barreling out the bay...

*GACK!!!!!*
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: AlphaOne on June 10, 2006, 10:07:35 am
now that would be really funny to see!
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Scooby_Doo on June 21, 2006, 06:22:50 pm
Hey Axem, might want to see what's become of your Triton :-)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/enterprise2.jpg)
Sorry I had to remove some of the bevelling so that I could bevel someplace else...
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Solatar on June 21, 2006, 06:37:57 pm
ooh...me likes.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Axem on June 21, 2006, 06:42:18 pm
Awesome. :yes:

I really love the bridge, or head, or whatever that hammer head thing on top is.

And not a problem with the bevelling. Since its being used as a completely different model now, I wouldn't expect everything to be the exact same. :)
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Goober5000 on June 21, 2006, 06:49:05 pm
While that's a super model, I'd still like to see the cargo pod completed. :nervous:
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Axem on June 21, 2006, 08:00:05 pm
Me too. (I need it for the campaign I was making it for :nervous: )

Any progress Flipside? :)
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Mars on June 21, 2006, 08:21:34 pm
While that's a super model, I'd still like to see the cargo pod completed. :nervous:


I completey agree (that's what I was trying to say),

Quote from: Me
I'm going to try and make one for its original use, a Triton carrier module, but if somone who knows what they're doing will try, it will go a lot faster.

My foray into modeling / model finishing isn't going well.

Please, somone else do it, I want to see a carrier cargo pod released somday. If I do it it'll be never.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Scooby_Doo on June 21, 2006, 09:26:49 pm
Don't look at me  :nervous:

I tried UVing it and only got so far.. besides my modeling style isn't very freespacey. LOL
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Mad Bomber on June 26, 2006, 05:29:51 pm
I did a Trition Cargo Box with a couple of openings as a disposeable Fighter carrier ages ago. Can't remember who for. Maybe Mad Bomber.

Yup. Twas for me, back when I was doing HFH. I still have it somewhere, despite HFH now being totally defunct.
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Harbinger of DOOM on July 23, 2006, 01:21:18 am
At least someone map it, so some of us can fiddle around with GIMP and try to texture it.........
Title: Re: A "carrier"
Post by: Mars on July 23, 2006, 02:48:02 pm
Hey Axem, might want to see what's become of your Triton :-)
Sorry I had to remove some of the bevelling so that I could bevel someplace else...

Come to think of it... I want one of those too.  :yes: