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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: redmenace on January 10, 2006, 06:13:24 pm

Title: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: redmenace on January 10, 2006, 06:13:24 pm
 :cool:
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=businessNews&storyid=2006-01-10T193005Z_01_SCH069951_RTRUKOC_0_US-AUTOS-SHOW-YORK.xml&rpc=23

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aD_ZjtbPGUEQ
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: achtung on January 10, 2006, 06:24:52 pm
I really don't get how you see that to be cool.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Turnsky on January 10, 2006, 07:05:11 pm
you do realise that if GM goes, so does Chevy (corvette's part of chev), Pontiac, and Holden in australia, (and prolly a few more  that i've forgotten about)

so, yeah, it'd kinda be a slight economic collapse.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Rictor on January 10, 2006, 07:11:01 pm
...what?
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Polpolion on January 10, 2006, 07:16:26 pm
1) No need to shout in topic title.

2) GM cars\companies pwn all the other ones. Did you see the new Camero concept car? their supposed to put a Camero based on that design on sale 'round 2009.

3) The gay Asian car companies that are mooching off GM and Ford are stupid. Except for the Miata (sp?), they don't really have any 1337 sport cars. Anyway, all their little tiny hybrids are so butt-looking.

These are the car companies that I like:

Favorite: GM            \_____________   Mostly like cuz their American car companies, and I'm very patriotic, but I      2nd Fav: Ford          /                             also like corvette, caddalac, pontiac, mustang, Camero, etc
3rd Fav: Ferrari
4th Fav: Jaguar
5th Fav: Mercades


Hates most: honda
2nd worst: toyota
3rd worst:Kia
4th worst: that gay Chinese company at Detroit auto show
5th worst:Rolls Royce (cool carz, stupid names)

middle: Jeep
Porsch


NOTE: These were all my personal opinions, so don't go flaming me/etc for stuff.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Ford Prefect on January 10, 2006, 07:19:32 pm
I have an uncontrollable prejudice against American cars, so this is having a limited impact on me. My trusty Subaru will still be running after the Apocalypse.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: achtung on January 10, 2006, 08:11:31 pm
*sniffle*

I bet I'm the only one here who likes Daimler-Chrysler. :sigh:

I don't know about other places but most Toyotas are ****ing expensive here.  We got a nice Dodge Dakota for about $27,000, IIRC, back when the discount was still goin.  it's a nice truck too.  Gets decent gas mileage for a V-8 too, something around 17-20 mpg.

Jeeps are great vehicles IMO as well.  I drive an old '99 cherokee.  Has somewhere around 107,000 miles on it and runs almost as good as the day we bought it.  Those things are 200,000 mile vehicles.  Plus gas mileage is decent.  about 27 mpg or something.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Scuddie on January 10, 2006, 08:27:15 pm
I can't say I havent seen this coming for a long time.  GM covers an large umbrella of manufacturers, and it's too damn big to hold its own.  That huge corporation should be axed, then rebuilt under a different structure.  Perhaps taking all of the remarkable or noteworthy cars and featuring only them.  There are just too many available cars that are practically identical to others.  Chevy Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire are essentially the same vehicle, yet they both are marketed and competing with eachother.  Plus, GM hasnt come out with any advances in the last three decades.  Chevy's reputation for reliability is being overshadowed by Toyota, for example.  And in days like these, efficiency is the big thing.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Kosh on January 10, 2006, 08:28:08 pm
Quote
3) The gay Asian car companies that are mooching off GM and Ford are stupid. Except for the Miata (sp?), they don't really have any 1337 sport cars. Anyway, all their little tiny hybrids are so butt-looking.


Seriously, go to asia and you will see very few american cars. Why? Because they suck.

Quote
Favorite: GM            \_____________   Mostly like cuz their American car companies, and I'm very patriotic, but I      2nd Fav: Ford          /                             also like corvette, caddalac, pontiac, mustang, Camero, etc

American cars suck.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Polpolion on January 10, 2006, 08:30:12 pm

Quote
Seriously, go to asia and you will see very few american cars. Why? Because they suck.
I thought it was cuz they cant afford them. all our cars cost (good cars, but not awesome ferrari type cars) 20,000 - 50,000 American dollars



American look cool.

asian cars = poopies/turds/butts/any other disgusting stuff
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: achtung on January 10, 2006, 08:30:25 pm
Quote
3) The gay Asian car companies that are mooching off GM and Ford are stupid. Except for the Miata (sp?), they don't really have any 1337 sport cars. Anyway, all their little tiny hybrids are so butt-looking.


Seriously, go to asia and you will see very few american cars. Why? Because they suck.

Or maybe it's because most asians can't currently afford american cars and most streets in asia are accomadated to smaller vehicles?
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Grey Wolf on January 10, 2006, 08:31:11 pm
I have an uncontrollable prejudice against American cars, so this is having a limited impact on me. My trusty Subaru will still be running after the Apocalypse.
Funnily enough, until a few months ago, GM owned 20% of Subaru, but they just sold it off.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Kosh on January 10, 2006, 09:18:56 pm
Quote
3) The gay Asian car companies that are mooching off GM and Ford are stupid. Except for the Miata (sp?), they don't really have any 1337 sport cars. Anyway, all their little tiny hybrids are so butt-looking.


Seriously, go to asia and you will see very few american cars. Why? Because they suck.

Or maybe it's because most asians can't currently afford american cars and most streets in asia are accomadated to smaller vehicles?


Not really. Even though this country is not nearly as developed as South Korea or Japan, most of the cars here are VW's. Sometimes I see some BMW's and occationally a Buick or two. I have yet to see any Fords though.

But I have seen more BMW's than american cars. Are you going to tell me american cars are more expensive than a high end german brand?

But there is a general view in Asia that, compared with local brands and german brands, american cars do suck.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: redmenace on January 10, 2006, 10:00:51 pm
I doubt there will be any economic collapse. It might suck for the auto workers though. I am still waiting to see if the ****ing bush administration will bail them out, which I hope they don't 'cause they shouldn't. Honestly though, I enjoy seeing mismanaged companies, that seem to have a 2X4 shuved up their collective asses, get their just desserts. This only goes to show that a once monolithic and powerful company can be brought to their knees.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Taristin on January 10, 2006, 10:07:48 pm
Quote
3) The gay Asian car companies that are mooching off GM and Ford are stupid. Except for the Miata (sp?), they don't really have any 1337 sport cars. Anyway, all their little tiny hybrids are so butt-looking.


Seriously, go to asia and you will see very few american cars. Why? Because they suck.

Quote
Favorite: GM            \_____________   Mostly like cuz their American car companies, and I'm very patriotic, but I      2nd Fav: Ford          /                             also like corvette, caddalac, pontiac, mustang, Camero, etc

American cars suck.

There's that general view in america too.

US cars are ugly, compared to the better designed european and Japanese cars

US cars don't last nearly as long, get worse fuel economy, and handle less precisely.

US cars on't hold their resale value nearly as well.

2) GM cars\companies pwn all the other ones. Did you see the new Camero concept car? their supposed to put a Camero based on that design on sale 'round 2009.

Yea, it's retro, like the mustang and charger, to get older buyers nastolgic of their youth. The car is ugly. As is the mustang. The charger is alright. The upcoming challenger is Ehh.

Quote
3) The gay Asian car companies that are mooching off GM and Ford are stupid. Except for the Miata (sp?), they don't really have any 1337 sport cars. Anyway, all their little tiny hybrids are so butt-looking.


**** you with the "gay." Grow up and learn that that's an ignorant and offensive way of speaking and I am sick of reading it.
On point; The asian comapnies aren't mooching off anything. In fact, GM liscences Honda to make the 6 cyliner motors for the Saturn SUV. Still like GM and hate honda? Ford? Crappy comapny lately. Their vehicles are doing poorly in reliability tests and their resale value has plummetted in recent years.
The Miata... is japanese, yes, but it's a go cart. it's hardly a sports car. If you want to compare sports cars, look at the RX-8 or the s2000. Look at the 350z/G35, and the upcoming skyline.
 

Quote

These are the car companies that I like:

Favorite: GM            \_____________   Mostly like cuz their American car companies, and I'm very patriotic, but I      2nd Fav: Ford          /                             also like corvette, caddalac, pontiac, mustang, Camero, etc

Blind patriotism is foolish. Your lovely GM is assembled in Mexico, you know? The GTO is made in Australia.

Also; Toyota, honda, hyundai, all have manufacturing plants in the US, and employ many american workers. Many cars on the roads here from them are made here.

Quote


Hates most: honda
2nd worst: toyota
3rd worst:Kia
4th worst: that gay Chinese company at Detroit auto show
5th worst:Rolls Royce (cool carz, stupid names)


Again with the "gay." Learn a proper vocabulary.

Already your statements show your level of comprehension. You dislike Rolls Royce because of it's name. The comany has been aroun for nearly if not a century, produces some of the top quality vehicles in the world, and you brush them off because the names are "stupid."

I swear I bet you're 15/16 years old.

Quote

middle: Jeep
Porsch


NOTE: These were all my personal opinions, so don't go flaming me/etc for stuff.


Well. Too late for that, now, eh?

Your opinions are too skewed by your blind patriotism. If you drove a honda you'd probably fall in love with it. But ehh. Where's Kode? I need to steal his signature...

And your ignorant view of asia is appauling. Why do you think every one there is poor? Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, are all very wealthy, highly developed areas. They don't buy american because we put out utter crap. Inferior technology and shoddy worksmanship.

The only thing keeping the US car comapnies alive are people like you who can't accept foreign dominance in thie sector.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Ford Prefect on January 10, 2006, 10:21:50 pm
Quote
I swear I bet you're 15/16 years old.
Now now, I know some very smart and pleasant 16-year-olds, and I wasn't dumb when I was 16.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Taristin on January 10, 2006, 10:27:19 pm
Quote
I swear I bet you're 15/16 years old.
Now now, I know some very smart and pleasant 16-year-olds, and I wasn't dumb when I was 16.

There are exceptions at times. I suspect not this time, though.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Black Wolf on January 10, 2006, 10:36:49 pm
Ford? Crappy comapny lately. Their vehicles are doing poorly in reliability tests and their resale value has plummetted in recent years.

Not here. Ford is one of the most strongly selling companies here in Australia (though mainly with locally manufactured stuff) - as is Holden, which is a GM company, interestingly.

The GTO is made in Australia.

The correct term is "Holden Monaro" :p
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Ford Prefect on January 10, 2006, 10:37:03 pm
Quote
There are exceptions at times. I suspect not this time, though.
Probably not. So who put "Think then post" underneath thesizzler's name? Because it's pretty funny.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Spicious on January 10, 2006, 10:46:47 pm
I swear I bet you're 15/16 years old.
Are you sure you're not referring to the 12-13 age group?

Interestingly though, the top 3 manufacturers in Australia in 2005 were Toyota, Holden and Ford in that order.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: achtung on January 10, 2006, 10:58:58 pm
Quote
I swear I bet you're 15/16 years old.
Now now, I know some very smart and pleasant 16-year-olds, and I wasn't dumb when I was 16.

If I act dumb I sure don't mean too :sigh:  I'm just a year off from that (17)
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Fury on January 10, 2006, 11:19:07 pm
Watch the language people, do not let this thread to be derailed into insults and eventually a flamewar.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: kode on January 11, 2006, 02:48:45 am
Watch the language people, do not let this thread to be derailed into insults and eventually a flamewar.

it already is one.

NOTE: These were all my personal opinions, so don't go flaming me/etc for stuff.


yeah, sure. everyone flames non-personal opinions.

you lack the ability of reasoning.

NOTE: that is just mine, and many other members, personal opinion of you. you'd do well to take raa's advice and grow a vocabulary. and some proper argumental skills.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: aldo_14 on January 11, 2006, 05:15:04 am
Is it just me or is the text screwed up here?

I never liked American cars myself - generally clunky, ugly and inelegant. I guess that's why not that many 'new' (i.e. just entering) US companies seem to make inroads in the UK now; other than Ford, it's European and Asian cars that do best.  Also fuel efficiency helps.....
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Mefustae on January 11, 2006, 05:45:16 am
Is it just me or is the text screwed up here?
Yep, just you.

On topic though... Public Transport ftw.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: TrashMan on January 11, 2006, 05:55:46 am
Volvo FTW!

and the Lamborghini Diablo must be the sweetest car ever :D
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: aldo_14 on January 11, 2006, 06:27:34 am
Volvo?  What, the skip on wheels Volvo?  The middle-aged cardigan man with dog in boot of estate Volvo?
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: vyper on January 11, 2006, 07:28:06 am
Point 1: Asian cars are often cheap to run, insure and get superb fuel consumption.

Point 2: Ford think so much of Asian cars they bought a 25% stake in Mazda a few years back.

Point 3: Who cares about the name when it looks like this:

(http://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com/swf_images/s_pic_gallery/exterior/large_wide_p2.jpg)

Anyway, on the main topic, GM has had this coming for a long time. The global market just offers too many options for cheap, affordable cars that people can still look good in.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: vyper on January 11, 2006, 07:30:06 am
Volvo?  What, the skip on wheels Volvo?  The middle-aged cardigan man with dog in boot of estate Volvo?

No, you're looking for the "I'm going to rip you a new arsehole with my acceleration while being perfectly safe" Volvo. Like this:

(http://www.volvocars.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/3FF50C41-8C3F-41A6-8511-6687F5E3DE31/0/S80.jpg)
http://www.volvocars.co.uk/Showroom/S80/
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Fineus on January 11, 2006, 07:36:51 am
Pfft... I'll see your "safe" Volvo and raise you this:

(http://www.automotivechronicles.com/articles/2005/mar/02/images/b33185-aston-martin-dbr.jpg)
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Janos on January 11, 2006, 07:59:01 am
Volvo?  What, the skip on wheels Volvo?  The middle-aged cardigan man with dog in boot of estate Volvo?

No, you're looking for the "I'm going to rip you a new arsehole with my acceleration while being perfectly safe" Volvo. Like this:

(http://www.volvocars.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/3FF50C41-8C3F-41A6-8511-6687F5E3DE31/0/S80.jpg)
http://www.volvocars.co.uk/Showroom/S80/

S80 is pretty awesome to drive. Too bad you pretty much HAVE to speed because hey, 160km/h feels like nothing in that piece of art.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: kode on January 11, 2006, 09:37:53 am
Volvo FTW!


volvo's owned by ford.

Pfft... I'll see your "safe" Volvo and raise you this:


aston martin's also owned by ford.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Fineus on January 11, 2006, 11:22:52 am
Yes.. and?
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: DaBrain on January 11, 2006, 12:29:31 pm
I don't care about GM anymore.

Those GM ****ers closed several Opel factory in Germany, just because they the managment in the US made a lot of mistakes and therefore a lot of money. Those workers didn't deserve to be fired. The didn't do anything wrong.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Ford Prefect on January 11, 2006, 12:38:11 pm
I'm quite partial to Volkswagens, myself.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: kode on January 11, 2006, 12:49:03 pm
Yes.. and?

same ****, different chassi.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Fineus on January 11, 2006, 01:03:38 pm
I suppose if you never look at the car then yeah - it's nothing special.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: vyper on January 11, 2006, 01:27:54 pm
I'm quite partial to Volkswagens, myself.

Phaeton FTW.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Scuddie on January 11, 2006, 01:48:41 pm
I'm wondering if Korean engineering is actually surpassing GMs engineering.  How scary would that be?
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Taristin on January 11, 2006, 01:53:16 pm
Korean cars have made quite a leap in quality and engineering in the last decade. Hyundai is consistently rated as one of the best cars for the value. If hyundai was smart, the Tiburon(Tuscani, or Coupe to you eurpeans/Asians) would be a v6 RWD car, and it would sell out of showrooms quicker than anything.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Unknown Target on January 11, 2006, 02:02:10 pm
Sorry to get back on topic (:p), but I'm just saying it would be bad for the global economy if GM tanked; think about it; they employ thousands of people in the US and in foreign countries; if those factories were shut down, all those people would lose their jobs. Losing their jobs means a flooded market, meaning not all of them get jobs, which means a lot of people won't have money to spend, which means that the rest of the people selling stuff won't get any money, which means that they'll start to loose money, etc.

It's aweful for the US, really bad for the world, imo. Because, another reason that the world would hit another major downspurt would be that the US economy, which is a major player in the world and heavily based in auto manufacturing, would take an enormous hit; it's impossible to say how big it would be, but it would be huge, so you have less US money going out to other countries.

As much as people on this board hate to admit it, the US economy is linked with everything, if something major happens to us, it'll affect other countries too.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Taristin on January 11, 2006, 03:41:28 pm
we'd get over it. And the US would find something it's more suited to...
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: kode on January 11, 2006, 03:47:50 pm
just because they'd kick the can wouldn't mean all those people would become unemployed. gm could just as well sell off parts of the company and slim the organization. I hear the chinese is interested in SAAB, for example.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Polpolion on January 11, 2006, 04:11:56 pm
Quote
Watch the language people, do not let this thread to be derailed into insults and eventually a flamewar.

it already is one.


not my fault.


Quote
Are you sure you're not referring to the 12-13 age group?

That's me. ( 13 )

Quote
US cars don't last nearly as long, get worse fuel economy, and handle less precisely.

Quote
american cars do suck

Quote
If you drove a honda you'd probably fall in love with it


My opinions would more than likely be changed to those types of things if I was old enough to drive, and if I knew anything about cars.

Untill then, I'm fine with blind patriotism.



Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Unknown Target on January 11, 2006, 04:27:10 pm
I think there should be a limit on how young you can be/how stupid you are to join this board. It might make thesizzler go away.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Ford Prefect on January 11, 2006, 04:35:07 pm
Quote
we'd get over it. And the US would find something it's more suited to...
Freedom factories!
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: kode on January 11, 2006, 04:36:58 pm
I think there should be a limit on how young you can be/how stupid you are to join this board. It might make thesizzler go away.

but how to enforce it?

Quote
Watch the language people, do not let this thread to be derailed into insults and eventually a flamewar.

it already is one.


not my fault.


Quote
Are you sure you're not referring to the 12-13 age group?

That's me. ( 13 )

Quote
US cars don't last nearly as long, get worse fuel economy, and handle less precisely.

Quote
american cars do suck

Quote
If you drove a honda you'd probably fall in love with it


My opinions would more than likely be changed to those types of things if I was old enough to drive, and if I knew anything about cars.

Untill then, I'm fine with blind patriotism.


good job admitting your ignorance. :up:
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: BlackDove on January 11, 2006, 04:40:44 pm
Quote
we'd get over it. And the US would find something it's more suited to...
Freedom factories!

That's the spirit!
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: aldo_14 on January 11, 2006, 04:55:45 pm
Sorry to get back on topic (:p), but I'm just saying it would be bad for the global economy if GM tanked; think about it; they employ thousands of people in the US and in foreign countries; if those factories were shut down, all those people would lose their jobs. Losing their jobs means a flooded market, meaning not all of them get jobs, which means a lot of people won't have money to spend, which means that the rest of the people selling stuff won't get any money, which means that they'll start to loose money, etc.

It's aweful for the US, really bad for the world, imo. Because, another reason that the world would hit another major downspurt would be that the US economy, which is a major player in the world and heavily based in auto manufacturing, would take an enormous hit; it's impossible to say how big it would be, but it would be huge, so you have less US money going out to other countries.

As much as people on this board hate to admit it, the US economy is linked with everything, if something major happens to us, it'll affect other countries too.

Albeit if a US (car) company hits trouble, it'd probably be international operations that first got shut down rather than the US side, so it's arguably better (for international corps) for the company to die completely and let regional/national companies fill the gap, than to have a slow reduction of investment and employment.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Fineus on January 11, 2006, 06:04:43 pm
kode, thesizzler, UT and anyone else who feels like joining in.. stop it. Stop it before I start handing out the first monkeyings.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Scuddie on January 11, 2006, 06:58:36 pm
Oooo, can I have one?

I'll name him Bubbles :).
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: aldo_14 on January 11, 2006, 07:04:44 pm
Oooo, can I have one?

I'll name him Bubbles :).

But will you follow Michael Jackson and be forever blowing Bubbles?
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Taristin on January 11, 2006, 08:15:21 pm
Does michael call himself bubbles now?
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: redmenace on January 11, 2006, 08:47:40 pm
Frankly it is better to let GM take its course. Yes, those unemployed will be hurt. GM should be a reminder that the mistake of arogance and complacency comes at too high a price. But GM's demise will result in most of it being sold away to international interests, ie. The Chinese. Bailing them out is a mistake. It just signals to everyone else that they can **** around as well.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Janos on January 11, 2006, 11:22:24 pm

My opinions would more than likely be changed to those types of things if I was old enough to drive, and if I knew anything about cars.

Untill then, I'm fine with blind patriotism.


 :cool: Awesome man.

Seriously. If you don't drive any cars (compared to quite a few people in this thread alone who do), then your only chance is to cite research trying to prove some points (like fuel efficiency). As to how does it feel to drive car X, well, lol.

And blind patriotism is the most perverse form of patriotism there is. It's like turning the entire idea upside-down. Not to say it's not often also completely unfounded, reactionary and stubborn, blind to criticism.

Quote
lol redmenace omg
Frankly it is better to let GM take its course. Yes, those unemployed will be hurt. GM should be a reminder that the mistake of arogance and complacency comes at too high a price. But GM's demise will result in most of it being sold away to international interests, ie. The Chinese. Bailing them out is a mistake. It just signals to everyone else that they can **** around as well.

It's temporary unemployment. We're not talking about millions or tens of millions people all of sudden being completely without income.
Car market is big. Trained workforce + factories + know-how is just too big of a bone for any competing company, like Toyota, to miss. Propably people will buy what's left of GM in the case **** hits the fan.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: redmenace on January 12, 2006, 01:18:33 am
I understand all of that. Still, I simpathize with those that will loose their jobs even for a short time. GMs demise will not even be a blip on the radar. I making a big deal though, partly because I am afraid bush or congress will interfere.
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: aldo_14 on January 12, 2006, 12:46:30 pm
Does michael call himself bubbles now?

The chimp was called Bubbles.  Unless he switched their names to avoid his debt liability.......
Title: Re: DIE GM DIE!
Post by: Roanoke on January 14, 2006, 06:21:43 am
Korean cars have made quite a leap in quality and engineering in the last decade. Hyundai is consistently rated as one of the best cars for the value. If hyundai was smart, the Tiburon(Tuscani, or Coupe to you eurpeans/Asians) would be a v6 RWD car, and it would sell out of showrooms quicker than anything.

Except for Big Executive, Sports and Niche Cars RWD is pretty much dead, mores the pity. Odd, given a half decent RWD chassis will attract almost universal praise, but that's business.