Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Fineus on January 22, 2006, 11:48:10 am
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I was looking at Starlancer models and it got me thinking... what would happen if a page was taken from that book?
Allow me to specify. Here's a screenshot of the GTF Ulysses of FS:
(http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/pics/fs/uly.jpg)
And the Coyote of Starlancer:
(http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/pics/fs/coy.jpg)
If you look at the models - the Coyote has much more rounded wings... this is a trend that is partially observable throughout all of Starlancers models. Granted some of this may be down to the way that things are textured but I was wondering.. what would happen if we were to take the same approach with some FreeSpace models. Could they be improved this way, or are the sharp lines preferable?
If someone would care to furnish me with a .MAX file of the Ulysses fighter I'd quite like to find out for myself. I don't expect much to come of this but thought I'd explore the possibility.
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I like to have certain "ruggedness" in the ships... If we start rounding things up, they end up looking as the trend today is; ultra-sleek, shiny and rounded. For example: every new design in the new BSG :ick: Some ships in Legend of the Rangers :doubt:
I have a problem with ships that look like they can go in and out of a persons ass, without him even noticing...
I do like Starlancer ships though. That game has its own style. I vote for letting it have that. And let FS have its own.
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I like to have certain "ruggedness" in the ships... If we start rounding things up, they end up looking as the trend today is; ultra-sleek, shiny and rounded. For example: every new design in the new BSG :ick:
Totally agree with you there, though I'll take it one step further and mention how every car designed in the last half-dozen years looks like a blob. I know about the wind tunnel testing, and I agree in theroy, but their all ugly and boring. Not to mention all too similar.
And those that don't follow the crowd are hidious.
Rounded blobs are okay (even good) for the Vasudans, but I'm a hard-edged+very-simple-curves Terran ship fan...
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Totally agree with you there, though I'll take it one step further and mention how every car designed in the last half-dozen years looks like a blob. I know about the wind tunnel testing, and I agree in theroy, but their all ugly and boring. Not to mention all too similar.
Absolutley. Give me an 80-90's car anyday... :yes:
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Fair enough... but how about making the angles slightly more filled out. My main problem (and it's a personal one - I'm not expecting everyone to feel the same) is with parts of the fighters like the front-most part of that Ulysses in the picture I posted. It's an incredibly sharp angle, almost impossibly sharp and it looks "wrong" to me. It should be filled out a little bit.
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Ahh Starlancer ...nice fighter models and butt-ugly cap ships.
If FS_open should copy anything from Starlancer, then it should be the way cap ship explosions are handled.
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If FS_open should copy anything from Starlancer, then it should be the way cap ship explosions are handled.
Should that ever happen, I would be having a most wonderful joygasm... ;7
Thought this seems to be a bit dreaded subject amongst the coders :nervous:
...parts of the fighters like the front-most part of that Ulysses in the picture I posted. It's an incredibly sharp angle, almost impossibly sharp and it looks "wrong" to me. It should be filled out a little bit.
You know, that is true... :wtf:
But aren't these kind of things fixed when the model is remade (aka HTL)?
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Technically yes, so I shouldn't complain too much. It's a bit of a pet niggle of mine though - something that makes the ships in Freespace look desperately inferior to ships in other sims - the design is good but the execution seems like they were aiming for the lowest possible poly count (which is fine) but at the sacrifice of detail (which isn't).
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Ah..Starlancer...a excellent game, good atmosphere, crapy story (or mission..you and you wing do everything but time-travel)
And I belive the sleekness of Starlancer ships is a illusion. If I recall correctly, their textures have those curvy lines on them so they look more curvy than they actually are.
Besides, FS Upgrade anyone?
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Ah..Starlancer...a excellent game, good atmosphere, crapy story (or mission..you and you wing do everything but time-travel)
Last time I played Starlancer I spent most of the missions complaining that it wasn't Freespace :D
The crappy HUD layout and keys annoyed me (Target Torpedo = Target Torpedo bomber or torpedo or anything it bloody well feels like).
Repeatative in-game cutscenes annoyed me.
And in some cases awful mission design. In this mission we finally allow you to fly a Soviet craft...... In a straight line.... for 3 minutes. :rolleyes:
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The crappy HUD layout and keys annoyed me (Target Torpedo = Target Torpedo bomber or torpedo or anything it bloody well feels like).
Pretty much same hud as in FS. The torpedo key also works pretty much like in FS bomb target key (first bombs then bombers)
Repeatative in-game cutscenes annoyed me.
At least there are cutscenes
In this mission we finally allow you to fly a Soviet craft...... In a straight line.... for 3 minutes. :rolleyes:
Thats a great missions with a great athmosphere! (thought it could use a save point when you switch to a fighter)
I guess you would have preferred blasting ruskies to bits all the way to the carrier?
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Pretty much same hud as in FS. The torpedo key also works pretty much like in FS bomb target key (first bombs then bombers)
I've seen it ignore torps in flight to target the bomber. That's exactly what annoyed me about it. Same as how I've seen the targeting auto pic an enemy 200 units away ignoring the one who has me in his gunsights.
At least there are cutscenes
And would it have killed them to let you press escape to skip them? I'd rather have none than be forced to watch them over and over again. Again this is one of the things :v: did absolutely perfectly well in FS2. In-game cutscenes can be an absolute disaster if not handled properly. There's nothing worse than having to watch the whole thing with *****ing Barney in the back complaining about enemy fighters who have a missile lock on me the entire way through the cutscene.
Thats a great missions with a great athmosphere! (thought it could use a save point when you switch to a fighter)
I guess you would have preferred blasting ruskies to bits all the way to the carrier?
I would have liked to do more with the torp bomber than fly in a straight line to the carrier and then straight back to your home base. There are all manner of things they could have had gone wrong that would have made the mission far more interesting. Remember that this is the only time in the game you ever get to fly a bomber and yet you only get to shoot at a static target which isn't even firing at you.
Plus as you say with no save point there is a good likelyhood you may end up having to do the same thing more than once.
Oh and don't get the idea that I have something against the universe. I loved Freelancer.
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For example: every new design in the new BSG :ick:
Wait, wait. Show me a SINGLE rounded edge of the Mark II Viper.
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For example: every new design in the new BSG :ick:
Wait, wait. Show me a SINGLE rounded edge of the Mark II Viper.
Um... although I'm not really arguing here, the engine 'intakes' are plus the the sides of the nose (granted, it's sort of trapezoid type shape, but the corners are rounded), and the side nose-profile has a slight curvature. Raptor might have been a better example.
However, the BSG ships are ****ing gorgeous and I won't hear a word said against them
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However, the BSG ships are ****ing gorgeous and I won't hear a word said against them
The originals, yes. The re-made ones... not so. But that's just my opinon. (granted the MKII looks like a Viper, but the MkVII... :ick: and as for the Galatica... :eek:)
I'll admit my trouble with nuBSG is not only based on the ships, but also the camera work (did they use hand-holds throughout? :wtf: ) the story line, the characters...
But as I said, this is my opinon. And everyone is entitled to their own opinon.
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Wait, wait. Show me a SINGLE rounded edge of the Mark II Viper.
Ok. I admit. I think the mark II looks fine.
But the rest have to be so damn ultra sleek, and the new cylon raider looks just butt ugly, outside and inside :no:
I would have liked to do more with the torp bomber than fly in a straight line to the carrier and then straight back to your home base. There are all manner of things they could have had gone wrong that would have made the mission far more interesting. Remember that this is the only time in the game you ever get to fly a bomber and yet you only get to shoot at a static target which isn't even firing at you.
The game was about fighter combat. And in that universe the bombing runs are very very differnt from FS. In that game the torp bombers did what? Jumped in, launched ordanance, jumped out. You ask me, that doesnt sound very thrilling gaming experience.
Not every day in the force is about the trigger and the reticle. The mission was a nice change from the normal shoothootshoot. And I liked it. You obviously didn't.
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The game was about fighter combat. And in that universe the bombing runs are very very differnt from FS. In that game the torp bombers did what? Jumped in, launched ordanance, jumped out. You ask me, that doesnt sound very thrilling gaming experience.
Not every day in the force is about the trigger and the reticle. The mission was a nice change from the normal shoothootshoot. And I liked it. You obviously didn't.
The thing is that there was virtually no user interaction required so the first time you play the mission is fine but the second time you can point the ship in the right direction, match speeds with your wingman and go off to make a cup of tea.
Just making it so that there was a chance of being discovered would have made the mission fun. It's not the fact that you don't do an FS2 style run that's the problem. It's that like the final mission of Silent Threat you can go off and do something else. That's not engaging gameplay as far as I'm concerned. Especially if you're forced to repeat it more than once.
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The first part of that mission can be a bit tedious if you play it for the X-th time, but thats not a big problem.
Fighter combat was great. I especially liked the armor distribution so you could chip away at his armor like you do with shields :D
It allso made combat more challenging.
And yes, bombers work very differently there. Torpedos are HUGE - bombers carry 4 of them and they have no dogfighting ability at all. It's shoot and retreat as there's no support ship that can carry torps.
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I liked that mission if only for finally being able to fire torps, but I had to replay it about a dozen times, which got boring.
But the game had other issues that were real fun stoppers (like the mentioned non-ESC-able ingame cutscenes). My main gripe was the terrible german translation/voice acting, since the game wasn't available in the original english version here. They're idea what German with an american or british accent shoud sound like was a joke, and even the Germans had a weird accent.
And I'm curious, has the english version also that bug that in one of the later missions the briefing of the previous mission is played and you have to figure out for yourself what the objectives are ?
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Not that I remember.
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However, the BSG ships are ****ing gorgeous and I won't hear a word said against them
The originals, yes. The re-made ones... not so. But that's just my opinon. (granted the MKII looks like a Viper, but the MkVII... :ick: and as for the Galatica... :eek:)
I'll admit my trouble with nuBSG is not only based on the ships, but also the camera work (did they use hand-holds throughout? :wtf: ) the story line, the characters...
But as I said, this is my opinon. And everyone is entitled to their own opinon.
And yours needs purging. With fire. And acid.
In fact, make that acid set on fire.
(personally, I think the original series is utter pish, whereas I think the new one is the dogs nadgers)
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<SNIP>
No need to get offensive. As I said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's about the one thing I believe in.
If everyone respected that, then in all likelyhood we (as in the human race) would never have been at war with each other... (at least when not fighting over food, territory, mates...) :sigh:
I'll admit that there are some bits of Original BSG that I don't like, but then again nothing is ever perfect.
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It often seems that those who like the new BSG are praising it to high heavens... And sometimes try to crucify those who have the courage to admit that they don't like the series. (I am not referring to the above posts, but in general)
I liked BSG at first. But in the second season it started to go little over my head. All that god stuff and prophecies, I don't know... I then started follow to Stargate Atlantis and abandoned BSG completely (for now). BSG has much seriousness and drama, and some people like that. I have even heard it to be praised as a new generation of scifi. Wheras Atlantis has more entertaining (sometimes even goofy) action, wich is more to my liking.
And if anyone dares to turn this in to a argument about why BSG is sooo good/baad, I will personally ensure the wrath of god himself falls precisely upon you!
This is way off topic anyway...
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And if anyone dares to turn this in to a argument about why BSG is sooo good/baad, I will personally ensure the wrath of god himself falls precisely upon you!
Second season. :p
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This is way off topic anyway...
Agreed. Lets focus on Kali's idea. Certainly areas of FS ship design could/(should?) be more rounded off. (Cockpits and gun barrels spring to mind), and Vasudan ships, but then again I'm a fan of the 'heavy industrial built-like-a-brick and twice as tough as an old boot' school of ship design. At least for the Terrans.
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You guys will find anything to fight over. :sigh:
Back on topic, or 'Teh Lockage of great Justice™' will be excersized...
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in other words, the "fleshing out" of various models to fit realistic structural lines would be what you're getting at.
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:nervous: Anyone feel like porting all those great designs? I tried years ago but the textures ended up stripped off them and would not go back on.
I never got to play Starlancer. After I installed it only the initial skirmish mode would work but it was sooo borign to do teh exact same demo mission each tiem with NO variation. The real SP mode would crash on start, never found a solution...
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More ships like...this, Kal?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/ngtm1r/Reliant.gif)
I grant it's not an identical match for the Reliant, but it's close. Perhaps Starlancer had prettier fighters...but when it gets bigger it gets uglier too. No Lucifer for you!
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Aww c'mon! Starlancer capships weren't so ugly. They were just a bit different. And they looked rough. I'd say they were ugly, in a good way. As a warship should be!
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An Orion is warship-ugly...the Reliant, the Yamoto, those cruisers...those are "Help, I'm made of cardboard boxes!" ugly. :P
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Aww c'mon, I rather liked them! The Pukov in particular... it was boxy sure but it really screamed "I'm a heavily armored badass carrier.. and thats what I do". That appeals to me.
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REliant was an ancient freighter modified to serve as a carrier.. it was supposed to look liek crap.
The Yamato designe I never liked..too many of those antenna cirles or whatever...
The Washington was nice... realyl looked modern and like a carrier.
Teh German cariers were allso very nice..and hte Pukov too :D