Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rictor on March 11, 2006, 08:55:34 am
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060311/ap_on_re_eu/milosevic
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands -
Slobodan Milosevic, the former Yugoslav leader, who was branded "the butcher of the Balkans" and was on trial for war crimes after orchestrating a decade of bloodshed during the breakup of his country, was found dead Saturday in his prison cell. He was 64.
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Milosevic, who suffered chronic heart ailments and high blood pressure, apparently died of natural causes and was found in his bed, the U.N. tribunal said, without giving an exact time of death.
On one hand, I don't think anyone is going to be too upset that he's gone, myself included. Good riddance to him. On the other hand, he seems to have died of natural causes, probably from his heart condition, mere months after requesting and being refused to be allowed to visit Moscow for treatment, which essentially means the Hague authorities are guilty of criminal negligence and are responsible for his death.
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*gasp*
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Personally, I hold his heart responsible and would like to rip it out and put it on trial for negligence.
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I'd love to see whatever family he's got left sue the Hague.
Man, would that be funny...
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They probably will. But I'de give better chances for the Pope converting to Islam than for the Hague (or the broader "international community" aka the West) allowing itself to be prosecuted in court.
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Good riddange to bad rubbish...
some say it would be better if he lived long enough to hear his sentance, but with Haag being as it is, it carries no weight whatsoever (that "court" is a travesty, and I would be saying that even if no croat ever got accused).
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Wonder if he was taken for a "walk around the block" a couple of times. And, you know, fell over. Or tripped and nutted some guys fist.
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Ah, cleansed. That makes the fourth death in the Hague. This particular one being the refuse from the excersize is being removed nicely and on schedule. First Tudjman, now him.
All of the subordinates have almost been removed as well, though they aren't big names, so they don't make the world news.
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Gives Saddam something to live up to?
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Oh, give me a break.
The bugger is dead. Means no one has to pay anymore to offer him a nice cell, food and other stuff. Had he been convicted for something, he probably would have died quite soon anyway, so rest in peace for the sucker and that's it IMO.
Though it'll be intriguing to see how the family tries to prove that a heart failure (probable cause of death) was caused by Hague court of human rights (or whatever it is).
EDIT: Though StratComm does have a good point one message further.
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I don't think the problem with the Hague is so much that he died (provided foul play is ruled out in the autopsy), it's that he was allowed to die without anyone knowing anything about it. The question should be how the holding facilities for an international court that acts so heavily in the "interests" of human rights be so grossly negligant as to not keep an eye on the vitals of an aging man with a heart condition. Butcher or innocent, justice cannot be served one way or another if he's allowed to die without the oppertunity for treatment.
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I don't think the problem with the Hague is so much that he died (provided foul play is ruled out in the autopsy), it's that he was allowed to die without anyone knowing anything about it. The question should be how the holding facilities for an international court that acts so heavily in the "interests" of human rights be so grossly negligant as to not keep an eye on the vitals of an aging man with a heart condition. Butcher or innocent, justice cannot be served one way or another if he's allowed to die without the oppertunity for treatment.
He didn't deserve treatment, so meh. Whatever.
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I don't think the problem with the Hague is so much that he died (provided foul play is ruled out in the autopsy), it's that he was allowed to die without anyone knowing anything about it. The question should be how the holding facilities for an international court that acts so heavily in the "interests" of human rights be so grossly negligant as to not keep an eye on the vitals of an aging man with a heart condition. Butcher or innocent, justice cannot be served one way or another if he's allowed to die without the oppertunity for treatment.
I'm not sure it'd be entirely appropriate to hook up anyone with ill-health (that isn't critical) to a heart monitor at all times, though, and AFAIK it's not entirely clear what treatment was received/denied, other than that he wasn't allowed to fly off to Moscow. There would be questions about how well he was monitored, though, albiet if it was - for example - a heart attack at night then that's not actually that easy to see. Worth noting this is the worst possible outcome for the Tribunal, though; they get blamed for his death and have no chance to prove they were right to detain him in the first place (i.e. through a succesful prosecution).
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Not this **** again! A rotten bastard dies and first thing in everyones mind is who gets the blame. What a nice society we live in. Is there anyone here who belived that the trial would be over in his lifetime? I didn't expect it to be over in my life time! The guy is yet to cause lots of grief, you'll see.
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http://news.yahoo.com/fc/World/Hague_War_Crimes_Tribunal
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Like I said. Not easy being a prophet you know, we see things :p
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Not this **** again! A rotten bastard dies and first thing in everyones mind is who gets the blame. What a nice society we live in. Is there anyone here who belived that the trial would be over in his lifetime? I didn't expect it to be over in my life time! The guy is yet to cause lots of grief, you'll see.
Habeas corpus. For all anyone knows, he was Mother Theresa and Ghandi rolled into one. And if the Hague could not prove his guilt in...what, 5 years time, with no significant breakthrough in sight, playing in their own court by their own rules, it's questionable whether they would ever have secured a conviction. And if not, he shouldn't have been in there in the first place.
Worth noting this is the worst possible outcome for the Tribunal, though; they get blamed for his death and have no chance to prove they were right to detain him in the first place (i.e. through a succesful prosecution).
I disagree. I'm sure everyone at the ICTY breathed a big sigh of relief when Milosevic keeled over, because it's much easier to heap accusations on a corpse than on a living person who'se guilt has to be proven in a court of law. This way, he's guilty by default, whereas if he had lived to see the end of the trial it's likely that the extent of his guilt would have been several notches lower. And it's not like anyone's going to jump to his defense, other than a few Serb nationalists who's media presence is somewhat lower than none.
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I wish I believed in hell. Then I could be sure he'd rot there for an eternity. The sad thing is that now he's a national hero (well, almost) and a martyr. "The evil west killed our beloved leader" :ick:
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I wonder if we (as the western public) will ever get an answer to the question on which causes he died and who to blame for (if necessary)... Not because the processes for getting these answers take such a long time but if It's not the most intersting thing media has to offer they will just put it down somewhere where no one is likely to read it - and if the things we get to read are the truth is a thing to be questioned again
and so there will be the great danger that for some Milosevic will be longer a hero than our (western) history books will keep mentioning him ... and to forget things like this are the worst things we (as all mankind) can do
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....
On the other hand, he seems to have died of natural causes, probably from his heart condition, mere months after requesting and being refused to be allowed to visit Moscow for treatment, which essentially means the Hague authorities are guilty of criminal negligence and are responsible for his death.
He got all the medical attention one could wish in Den Haag. He probably wanted to go to Moscow, because his family lives there.
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Worth noting this is the worst possible outcome for the Tribunal, though; they get blamed for his death and have no chance to prove they were right to detain him in the first place (i.e. through a succesful prosecution).
I disagree. I'm sure everyone at the ICTY breathed a big sigh of relief when Milosevic keeled over, because it's much easier to heap accusations on a corpse than on a living person who'se guilt has to be proven in a court of law. This way, he's guilty by default, whereas if he had lived to see the end of the trial it's likely that the extent of his guilt would have been several notches lower. And it's not like anyone's going to jump to his defense, other than a few Serb nationalists who's media presence is somewhat lower than none.
That's exactly why they didn't want it - it obscures the extent of his crimes, means they remain unprosecuted (not prosecuted to a verdict), means he gets held up as a martyr by the nutcases, and means he doesn't see any actual punishment. It means Milosevic is effectively an open book, a weapon that can be used against the Hague by saying exactly what you said.