Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sandwich on March 15, 2006, 06:55:35 am
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There's been super-high alerts of immenent terrorist attacks here for the past few days (my bro isn't going to be allowed home from base this weekend because of it), so I finally got off my lazy bum to find out why. I'm surprised there's been no thread about it - it's quite a big deal:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1731123,00.html
[q]A sudden exit, a jail is stormed - and Israel's long wait is over
· Departure of UK monitors triggers raid on suspects
· Armed Palestinians respond by snatching foreigners[/q]
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How is this a 'big deal'?
It's the same **** that's been going on for the last 60 years.
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Big deal in the respect that it involves Britian as well to a certain extent, not just Israel and the Pallies.
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Britain's always involved.
It's just we usually hide it better.
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I'm not sure exactly what to make of it yet. I can understand Israeli being worried about a Hamas government releasing prisoners and effectively undoing any attempts over the last few years to get the PA to actually take action in policing itself, but on the other hand it's almost certainly going to act to light a powderkeg and destroy any hopes of finding some way to get Hamas to either renounce violence altogether or at least maintain some form of ceasefire.
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Given that Israel stole all their land, why the **** should the Palestinians stop attacking them?
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4809034.stm
And what in the world do you mean, "maintain some form of ceasefire"? Do you know how many attacks there have been in the past week? I get SMS news flashes almost every day notifying me of another mortar or rocket that fell in this place or that place. There ain't no cease-fire. FYI.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4809034.stm
And what in the world do you mean, "maintain some form of ceasefire"? Do you know how many attacks there have been in the past week? I get SMS news flashes almost every day notifying me of another mortar or rocket that fell in this place or that place. There ain't no cease-fire. FYI.
Maintain as in have and keep one, at least from Hamas (I doubt they could do anything to control other groups, even if they had the will to or the co-operation of Fatah-allied security forces). Basically getting some way to stop Hamas launching attacks in order to build some stepping stone that, if not giving the prospect of peace talks, at least averting all out guerilla warfare and terrorist campaign (again) until the next election, in the hope that enough will be left of what minor pre-Hamas gains there were, and that Hamas will be voted out, and thus the prospects of lasting peace would not be (even more?) irreperably damaged. Not likely, of course.
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We should just get both of 'em to call a coin toss, then give the winner all the nuclear weapons they need to erradicate the loser.
Simple, clean and has the nice side-effect of revitalizing radiation-poisoning research and crippling the Arab nations economically.
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Isreal already has the nukes.
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There's been super-high alerts of immenent terrorist attacks here for the past few days (my bro isn't going to be allowed home from base this weekend because of it), so I finally got off my lazy bum to find out why. I'm surprised there's been no thread about it - it's quite a big deal:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1731123,00.html
[q]A sudden exit, a jail is stormed - and Israel's long wait is over
· Departure of UK monitors triggers raid on suspects
· Armed Palestinians respond by snatching foreigners[/q]
I could be wrong...but I think there is less talk of this stuff over here right now because we're involved with our own problems and there is significant amount of apathy. Maybe I'm wrong...but thats what I feel. I realize the problem is far too big to just go away...but lots of people are throwing up their hands (myself included) and saying "not another terrorist blowing someone up". Iraq, Israel/Palestine...Afganistan. Heck we've lost enough Canadian soliders over the last few weeks since they took duty in the southern provinces. Sort of sick of it...I really wish this stuff would actually work out but there are people on both sides who seem quite committed to ensuring that the problems aren't reconciled.
My former youthful optimism has been replaced in the last few years. Diplomacy doesn't seem to work because nobody is listening and armed warfare doesn't work because everyone just pays in more lives. What to do...
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I bet if you told an Israeli 20 years ago that the PLO would be the moderates, the guys who you're hoping win the elections, they would have laughed at you. Maybe 20 years from now, the US and Israel will be backing Hamas against whichever bigger, badder group comes along in the meantime.
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I bet if you told an Israeli 20 years ago that the PLO would be the moderates, the guys who you're hoping win the elections, they would have laughed at you. Maybe 20 years from now, the US and Israel will be backing Hamas against whichever bigger, badder group comes along in the meantime.
Maybe in 20 years time there won't be a US, Israel, Hamas or bigger badder group.........
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Amen to that.
(I'm serious. There are various positive - I say - scenarios that would transform the US, Israel, and the Palestininans. I'm also not spewing off nonsense, because I'm an american israeli.
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By the way, I dunno how much of this made it into the news, but Israel caught a
suicide bomber van with 10 Palestinians and an explosives belt (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/21/AR2006032100984.html) today on the main Jerusalem - Tel-Aviv highway. They also lifted the media blanket on having uncovered an Al Quaida cell operating in Shechem that had been planning a multi-level a series of attacks in Jerusalem.
...peace, peace! Let's play nice and give 'em a chance! :rolleyes:
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Am I right in thinking that this is the first case of actual al-Q operations within Israel, as opposed to the usual suspects (Hamas, Hezballah etc)? If they decide to move in and start blowing **** up, along with all the groups who are doing so already, it certainly doesn't bode well for Israel.
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Am I right in thinking that this is the first case of actual al-Q operations within Israel, as opposed to the usual suspects (Hamas, Hezballah etc)? If they decide to move in and start blowing **** up, along with all the groups who are doing so already, it certainly doesn't bode well for Israel.
It wouldn't be unknown, I suppose, for one of the more minor groups to affiliate themselves with Al-Queda to gain funding and - crucially - publicity. Because it's not like Al-Q is some giant SMERSH with volcano lairs and undersea labs; AFAIK all realistic indications are that it's a loose affiliation of like minded psychopaths trading on the post 9/11 noteriety and getting funds. Albiet it's not like Al-Queda would be unwilling; the main rallying cries of most of the fundy groups is related to the Israel/Palestine situation, after all; even in linking the US invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq to be linked to 'zionest aggression' or some similar anti-semitic pish.
Although I'm not sure that, what, about 10-20 nutcases would be a good reason to damn the entire population there (in the territories) and discontinue any attempts at peace.....
This (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4776578.stm) is a wierd one, though. There's any number of motives you can ascribe into it, from the hopelessly optimistic one of actual prospects of peace (**** all chance of that in my lifetime), to the more likely case of political pragmatism (appearing independent to get voters, and trying to avoid association so as to raise funds), and the rather obvious (even terrorists don't like being told to do stuff by terrorists).
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From my limited and uninformed point of view, there's little reason why Hamas would ever want to be associated with al-Q. First of all, they now have a chance to gain legitimacy as a political entity (if not from the US then from Russia, possibly the EU and the wider world), which would be a must if they are to implement their agenda. They don't seem to be short of funds, and in any case the funds lost from association with al-Q would likely be far greater than any funding they would recieve from Muslims financiers which they are not already getting. And the other thing is that they are the biggest, best armed gang in the neighborhood right now. Everyone is loathe to give up power and control, even if it is to like-minded people.