Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Turnsky on March 26, 2006, 06:49:49 pm

Title: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Turnsky on March 26, 2006, 06:49:49 pm
okay, this is a kinda like a smallish gripe i had with the ship ever since i first saw it, i know somebody's doing a HTL version of this behemoth giant gun of a ship (  :p ), so i'm gonna list some ways to make it, at least, look a little better, whilst trying to keep it as canon as possible.

1) slope the lower engine array (the 'handle' ) back towards the stern by a few degrees, whilst keeping the engine part still level ( i wish i had a decent pic of the colossus side on, and without clutter, or else i'd show you).
either way, it's ugly as at a full 90 degrees compared to the rest of the ship. 

2) change  the color scheme to something more fitting of a warship, i mean, it's green, almost puke green at that, really, battleship grey or something would be more fitting.

that's all i can think of off the top of my head right now.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 26, 2006, 10:39:59 pm
I think the color came from trying to mix Terran and Vasudan armor schemes. The Colossus isn't a strictly Terran ship after all.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: CP5670 on March 26, 2006, 11:32:21 pm
Yeah, I think that color scheme is fitting for what the Colossus is supposed to be.

I always rather liked the look of the Colossus. Somehow looked really nice and imposing when you got close to it, much more so than from far away.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Mefustae on March 26, 2006, 11:48:45 pm
Somehow looked really nice and imposing when you got close to it, much more so than from far away.
Yeah, especially with HDR

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9427/hdr21we.png)

:D
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Mars on March 26, 2006, 11:50:33 pm
I think the Hecate and Myrmidon are much better renditions of Terran-Vasudan mixed technologies.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 27, 2006, 03:46:17 pm
The Hecate is a Terran design though..... I suppose Terrans and Vasudans would be sharing technologies, but the Colossus was a joint endeavor, while the Hecate was mostly Terrans.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Charismatic on March 27, 2006, 04:37:20 pm
Somehow looked really nice and imposing when you got close to it, much more so than from far away.
Yeah, especially with HDR

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9427/hdr21we.png)

:D
Are you sure that live shot is working correctly? I can only see its end.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Turnsky on March 27, 2006, 04:53:50 pm
okay, i'll give you that the colossus was a joint endevour, but, there are many shades of green, perhaps one either more muted, or darker than it is.

either way, yes, it's an imposing ship, but it could stand to be more imposing.  :nod:
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Polpolion on March 27, 2006, 05:02:06 pm
Somehow looked really nice and imposing when you got close to it, much more so than from far away.
Yeah, especially with HDR

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9427/hdr21we.png)

:D


*splat*

ughh... I need a new keyboard now...
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: ZmaN on March 27, 2006, 06:15:48 pm
Somehow looked really nice and imposing when you got close to it, much more so than from far away.
Yeah, especially with HDR

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9427/hdr21we.png)

:D

How did you get it to shine like that?  how does any ship shine like that?

Can you tell me how?

I cant seem to get it.....
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Kie99 on March 28, 2006, 02:13:37 am
Somehow looked really nice and imposing when you got close to it, much more so than from far away.
Yeah, especially with HDR

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9427/hdr21we.png
:D

That is gorgeous.  I need a new graphics card.

EDIT: Happy?
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on March 28, 2006, 02:17:34 am
I can't stand HDR.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Col. Fishguts on March 28, 2006, 02:51:42 am
Stop quoting the same picture over and over again, we've seen it in the first post. Thank you.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Mefustae on March 28, 2006, 03:21:30 am
Yeah, i'm all for getting compliments, but I don't want to have to scroll past my own damn picture umpteen times! :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: StratComm on March 28, 2006, 03:53:08 am
Is that five counts in this thread?  Of course, given some of the quoters I can't say I'm really suprised.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Turambar on March 28, 2006, 09:14:21 pm
oy, thats not hdr

its HDRish, the smartshader


stop getting the noobs all excited
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: ZmaN on March 29, 2006, 10:27:39 am
how do the ships shine like that?  I see all these HDR models of ships and when I install them into FS2, they dont shine like the pics?

What do I need to install to get them to do that?
Is is the shine and glow maps on the SCP site?
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Col. Fishguts on March 29, 2006, 11:14:30 am
No, no and no.

That's HDRish, as smart shader for ATI cards (IIRC), that makes the whole screen have a bloom effect.
It has nothing to do with the SCP, you can do this with every game.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: ZmaN on March 29, 2006, 12:47:51 pm
your not getting me....

How do I get the ships to shine like that colossus picture? :hopping: :hopping: :hopping: :hopping:
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on March 29, 2006, 01:20:08 pm
He just said, foo'
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: karajorma on March 29, 2006, 02:31:41 pm
From your display control panel. Look in Settings >> Advanced.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Charismatic on March 29, 2006, 04:46:14 pm


That is gorgeous. I need a new graphics card.

EDIT: Happy?
Quote
Yes, thank you. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: ZmaN on March 29, 2006, 05:35:25 pm
Well I went to the Smartshader effects box in the Omega ATI drivers I have and heres the choices...

No Effect
Black and White
Classic
Inverse Color
Porthole
Sketch
White ASCII
Green ASCII
RGB Cycle
Stylize - Black and White
Stylize - Color

Which one should I use for the bloom effect?
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: redsniper on March 29, 2006, 08:53:56 pm
:sigh: :rolleyes: None of them. Go find HDRish.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: road_dancer on March 30, 2006, 02:09:10 am
Couple of links for you...

http://www.beyond3d.com/misc/atiss/index.php?p=4

http://modetwo.net/darkmod/index.php?s=4804da02f1ed162c46a40e26cc2eba9a&showtopic=1230&view=findpost&p=17145
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: BlackDove on March 30, 2006, 04:07:01 am
Am I the only one who thinks the image is butt ugly and the bloom effect should never be applied to the game?
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Prophet on March 30, 2006, 04:16:14 am
It does seem like somekind of lotion was used on the Colossus to make it shine. Kinda reminds me of those contests where muscular men show off their bodies with nothing on but a thong and a ****load of slimy substance :ick:
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on March 30, 2006, 04:50:29 am
Am I the only one who thinks the image is butt ugly and the bloom effect should never be applied to the game?

Nope. I hate it too. And for "the game", make it "any game"
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: ZmaN on March 30, 2006, 08:45:05 am
Yea I found it here right after I posted those things before:
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?p=1333394362

And check out the HDR rendering for Far Cry!!!!

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=39464&highlight=cry+hdr

WOW thats so beautiful!!!
No its not HDRish, its actual HDR rendering using the 1.3 Patch on Far Cry...  It really looks good...
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Turnsky on April 03, 2006, 08:49:38 pm
HDR and bloom has its place in various things, however bloom should only be limited to cockpits, engine glow, weapons, and maybe solar panels, and other things with a smooth, highly reflective surface, ship hulls aren't really like that, most of them are dark, pockmarked metals that has seen a lot of things hit it over the time it has been in space.
 HDR isn't the end all, you have to look at what would, infact, give off light, or reflect it really well, if HDR hasta be done, it hasta be done subtly, not sticking out in your face, it should contribute to the overall quality of something, not make the whole thing.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Turnsky/hdrfenris.jpg)
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: S-99 on April 04, 2006, 04:48:51 am
Yeah i just recently got hdrish for my 9800pro, the game looks absolutely awesome.
HDR is highly necessary because it simulates real light.
The colossus being shiny like that with the hdr is horrible though.
I don't remember the colossus being a shiny ship like that.
But for ships like the new hecate, it's absolutely awesome.
And i guess those who hate hdr wouldn't like playing halflife2 anymore:p
Halflife2 hdr is more sophisticated, among hdr affects, halflife2 actually simulates how light enters the eyes of a character.
The hdrish shader does not.
As far as i can tell, playing with hdrish, things are as they should be, when you stare off into the sun, it is blinding, especially in real life.
Idk, maybe the colossus had a shot like that being horrible because of some type of shine and bloom from hdrish looking ugly along with it's htl skin.
Idk if the colossus even has an htl skin so i could be wrong.
In other words, the shot of the colossus looked like it had some type of "doubleshine" going on.
At least none of the other ships seem to do this with hdr.
If i really cared because the game looks so much better with it.
The colossus just needs to be remade fast.
Anyway, i'll try to get a hecate shot.
And that fenris shot reminds me how i found the fenrises blind spot, just park your fighter directly in front of the nose of the ship, and fire away.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Galemp on April 06, 2006, 11:14:59 am
Applying it to glowmaps only would be super. Otherwise it's oversaturated.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Turnsky on April 09, 2006, 08:21:48 pm
Applying it to glowmaps only would be super. Otherwise it's oversaturated.

Glowmaps, engine glow, close stars, perhaps even beam shots, and where something's genuinely shiny and would reflect light, such as cockpit canopys.  nebula lighting would benefit, too.
there's an idea, a reddish "glow" trail after a beam cuts a swathe across a ship's hull, disappating shortly afterwards.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 10, 2006, 04:04:34 am
I've never really seen all the craze about bloom...

Motion blur, on the other hand...
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: StratComm on April 10, 2006, 04:35:44 am
I've always felt like bloom mimiced my eyesight when I'm wearing glasses that the perscription is slightly too weak in.  Everything blurry != good.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Turnsky on April 10, 2006, 07:46:11 am
I've always felt like bloom mimiced my eyesight when I'm wearing glasses that the perscription is slightly too weak in.  Everything blurry != good.

well, like i said, not everything blurry, enhancing what gives off light would be cool, of course, we'd need pixel shaders for that, we'll just wait and see what the SCP comes up with.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: S-99 on April 11, 2006, 10:53:44 pm
IDK
If there's an object that reflects light, it's going to bloom, EVEN IN REAL LIFE.
That's one thing i like about hdr, in particular halflife2 hdr.
Just go around and do something like compare a sun in the sky with clouds in halflife2 to the real sun in the sky with some clouds.
HDR in halflife2 is already superb.
Of course here with fs2 were messing with a smartshader that gives us fake hdr.
The only thing I would not ask to be hdr'd in fs2 is the HUD.
I need to use the hud durig gameplay, and can't stand it when i'm tracking a target behind a cargo ship, and the terran hdr'd engines hide everything out of sight until i get the freighter engines out of my face.
Besides that, everything else is awesome with the fake hdr anyway.
The colossus is utterly horrible, but the new hecate with hdr is awesome, as well as all the other ships, besides, the colossus is getting replaced with an htl model that's being worked on.
Another thing is that hdr is supposed to simulate light coming into the eye, and how the eye reacts to levels of increasing light, and decreasing light.
Like how things are unbearably bright coming out of a dark corridor on a sunny day.
Halflife2 hdr does this, HDRish smartshader does not.
HDRish simulates real light to a nice realistic extent, but it's static in the fact that it never changes say like halflife2 hdr.
Besides, light in space is interpretted differently down here under an atmosphere.
Out in space you don't have an atmosphere filtering UV rays, microwaves, etc.
In space you have the full potential of the sun's full range of light spectrum output to roast an astronaut not properly protected.
Basically when you're in a solar system, expect the sun to be bright as hell, unless your away from a star or something.
Speaking of nonsolar hdr, i wonder what HDRish is like in a mission that takes place inside a node?
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Dark Hunter on April 12, 2006, 12:06:49 pm
Funny how this turned from talking about the Colossus to discussing graphics styles....
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Mars on April 12, 2006, 05:38:29 pm
Most people on these forums are smart.
Most smart people have ADD (or act like it).
Therefore: most people on these forums have ADD (or act like it.)
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: FireCrack on April 13, 2006, 11:41:14 am
I'd gander that your assumptions may be flawed.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Mars on April 13, 2006, 06:29:52 pm
Shhhhh...
I'm trying to be optimistic, let me live in my own little world.
LA, LA, LA...
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Ulala on April 14, 2006, 11:56:44 am
I actually think Turnsky had good suggestions. The canon-freaks might.. well freak, but to put the "handle" of the Colossus back at an angle could really improve its look (I think).
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: FireCrack on April 14, 2006, 09:24:51 pm
I dont think it would look good angled back more than it already is...
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: CP5670 on April 14, 2006, 11:03:34 pm
The only game I've seen that actually uses HDR well is Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, which uses the high contrast colors extremely well but with a minimal dynamic bloom. HDR (or rather HDR+dynamic bloom) looks unrealistic and over the top in almost everything else. In any case, HDR will only really show its true potential once there are (mainstream) monitors that support it.

What exactly does this ATI HDR effect do? I like the look of things in that screenshot Turnsky posted.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Flipside on April 18, 2006, 02:41:26 pm
I do know that HDR in Oblivion actually has a habit of obscuring detail, normally 'bright' rocks tend to glow in the midday sun until they are almost pure white, it actually makes things harder to see since you feel like you are walking around with bad eyesight and need to pick up some glasses :(
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: S-99 on April 18, 2006, 03:16:05 pm
Why don't you guys talk about games that have real hdr.
And not the fake kind.
Half life2 has real hdr.
And then there's games like black that utilizes fake hdr.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Eightball on April 18, 2006, 06:26:36 pm
Straying back towards topic, I don't like the Colossus much at all as a ship.  Too... something...

The Deimos is the pinnacle of sexiness in space warships.  The Colossus should just be an oversized Deimos, without slashing beams.  ;7
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: SuperCoolAl on April 18, 2006, 06:55:02 pm
I never got the point of slashing beams.

/me detects another possible thread-shift
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: S-99 on April 19, 2006, 03:32:31 am
Slashing beams cause a great deal of damage to the vessel it actually hits compared to static beams.
Another thing about slashing beams is that they have a principle behind them, which is why the gtva persued them.
It was the fact that, you damage more subsystems when you have a beam swipe across the hull of the vessel.
I think slashing beams are fine, it'd be better if the slashing beam did something like measure the length of the vessel, and it's width in respect to it's position, so it'd hit more of the time.
But, i don't know if this would slow down the game too much having a beam turret AI operate like this.

But, yeah, i like slashing beams the most, they really are superior in the fact of damaging more subsystems depending on where the beam swipes.
I thought they were fun as hell when i got to use them.
If you check out the hlp here, there's a mission file you can download where you can play as a deimos.
But, slashing beams really need a better AI to utilize them better if say you're not the one flying the deimos to do some flight corrects for it at least.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Mars on April 19, 2006, 04:18:13 pm
Most slashing beams cause damage intermediate between "B" beams (or "L" in the Shivans case) and "S" beams, they are not "S" or "B" beams so they can't really be compared in the fasion of which you speak, there would need to be a "M" class of beams for that.
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: ZmaN on April 19, 2006, 06:24:36 pm
I never got the point of slashing beams.

/me detects another possible thread-shift

Slashing beams?
Static Beams?
whats the difference?
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Mars on April 19, 2006, 06:35:22 pm
I quote the Wiki:
Quote
Three beam types are possible:
 
  • Anti-capital ship turret, which targets a subsystem and shoots the beam in the centre of the subsystem. Shivan and a few GTVA beams have this property.
  • Anti-capital ship turret, which targets a whole ship and randomly shoots at any of the parts of the target. This type of beam shot is moving, which means it often does not take its 100% damage on a target. Almost all GTVA beams are of this type.
  • Anti-fighter beam, mentioned previously, it shoots a beam at the centre of the targeted ship and does not move. Multiple shots can be used in a row.
There are arguments for both types of beams, but in general the Static (center of subystem targerter) are the most effective
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: S-99 on April 19, 2006, 07:25:43 pm
Most slashing beams cause damage intermediate between "B" beams (or "L" in the Shivans case) and "S" beams, they are not "S" or "B" beams so they can't really be compared in the fasion of which you speak, there would need to be a "M" class of beams for that.

I never got the point of slashing beams.

/me detects another possible thread-shift

Slashing beams?
Static Beams?
whats the difference?

Sorry i didn't use the special wecial terminology of terslash of bgreen. :mad:
It was my thinking people would probably know what the definition of static would be when applied to being the opposite beam would be (only goes one direction doesn't change trajectory). :nod:
In that terminology a slash beam could be considered a dynamic beam (goes more than one direction).
Yes there is a big difference between slash beams, i was more overly getting after principle of why the slash beam was persued.
Slash beams can damage more subsystems that are strewn about all over say a destoryer, by sweeping over it's target as opposed to hitting one spot only(like normal beams do).
THAT'S THE GENERAL PRINCIPAL BEHIND SLASHERS
As far as slash beams doing more damage than standard beams.
I took references from this thread http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,39346.25.html
Where mars posted posted beam details.
Please tell me people understand at least the principle of the principle of slashers now :)
I don't know if what mars posted was accurate or not, but i'll take it as accurate, since nobody posted any solid details on beams like mars did.
Anyway, if i'm not showing off the difference between slash beams versus normal beams enough,
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Taristin on April 19, 2006, 08:38:21 pm
Keep calm or the thread gets it. Dont take the internet, or even this fictional game so seriously. KTHXBAI
Title: Re: Colossus issues/improvements
Post by: Mars on April 19, 2006, 08:56:31 pm
And remember, in all questions, the Wiki is your freind, it has all of the statistics for every weapon in the games, the actual damage for beams is the sustained damage/ second. Try the comparison table:
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapon_Comparison_%28FS2%29