Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: aceofspades on March 28, 2006, 11:57:09 pm
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Um, I don't remember where this was, and I can't find the thread now, but Singh was doing research about the RL sources of FS2 universe elements, and he noted that Sathanas is basically Satan. Then someone remarked about the multiple ship names meaning 'satan' or variations thereof. So this is a place for posting etymologies of ship/people/place names, especially those related to Satan (no I'm not a satanist :p), and including the less obscure campaigns. So I'll start out, including some Satanic and non-Satanic ones, and some well known and not-so well known ones:
SJ Sathanas - FS2. Satan.
SD Lucifer - FS1. Satan.
SD Demon - FS1. Demon/Satan.
SCv Shedim (SCv Moloch) - Desperation. 'Shedim' is Hebrew for 'devils', roughly.
SC Rakshasa - um, not sure if FS1 or 2. A rakshasa is in Hinduism a demonic spirit.
SC Lilith -again, not sure if FS1 or 2. Lilith was, according to some Midrashic (set of Hebrew) texts, the first wife of Adam, who later turned bad and makes several appearances, Midrashic and folkloric, as a demonic being. Somewhat close to Satan, consider the 'fallen from' motif.
SC Cain - many people probably recognized this easily, but it is somewhat lesser known then the Lucy and such. Cain was one of the sons of Adam and Eve. He killed Abel out of jealousy, and was exiled with the 'mark of Cain' on him.
Golgotha - BWO. From 'Gulgolet', Hebrew for 'skull'.
In the context of the Ramayana, I'd say SD Ravana (FS2) comes pretty close to playing a 'Demon' role. But I'm not an expert on ancient Hindu scripture - my mother is.
The Colossus of Rhodes - one of the Seven Wonders of the ancient world - stood, according to legend, straddling Rhodes port (historians tend to believe it was stationed otherwise). Thus it had a 'protector' symbolism about it, just like the GTVA Colossus (which, incidentally, appears to have never been given a cruiser/corvette/destroyer/superdestroyer/juggernaught etc. classification, which bugs me). At least, that's what the Colossus stood for before it became a sandbag to delay the juggernaught fleet while capella evacuated :rolleyes:.
Small side note - annoyingly, the Shivan designations are inconsistent. The name of the race, the names for their wings, and the name for one of its destroyers and two cruiser are Hindu, and then pretty much all the rest of the names are Judeo-Christian.
GTD Hades - FS2, although not actually present. Hades is in Greek mythology the brother of the head god Zeus, and rules the underworld of the dead, rarely venturing outside of it. I think that the spooky nature of Hades is connected with the way GTVI is often seen (in Homesick, they are explicitly referred to as 'spooks'.) In addition, Hades as the underground brother of Zeus reminds me of the relationship between GTVA and GTVI.
Anybody, feel free to expand. Please keep away from stuff like 'ship x does something in campaign y which is appropriate for the name.' It should be related to the etymology of the word, e.g. I posted the Hades because I see its role as connected to the mythologoical Hades, but I wouldn't say 'The GTCv Persistence in Sync is very persistent' or 'in Homesick the GTCv Custodian is the custodian of the merc group.'
Hope people find this interesting :nervous:.
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Rakshasa is FS2, Cain and Lilith are FS1 carryovers. The reason you're seeing so much cross-pollination between Shivan names in FS1 and FS2 is that a bunch of Shivan ships in FS1 also appeared in FS2. IIRC the wing names were all changed because of a few complaints that Hindus would find a "Destroy Vishnu" directive offensive. You wouldn't tell a Christian or Jew to blow up something named for his god, formulaic evil or not, would you?
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You wouldn't tell a Christian or Jew to blow up something named for his god, formulaic evil or not, would you?
"Pilot, you must destroy the forward beam cannons on the JD Moses before it's too late!!"
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Directives:
Destroy wing Jesus (4)
Disable SC Pope Benedictus
Destroy SD Christianity
That would be good PR for the game :nervous:
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Directives:
Destroy wing Jesus (4)
Disable SC Pope Benedictus
Destroy SD Christianity
That would be good PR for the game :nervous:
I disagree...
Why do you need to make fun of christianity? why not buddism or w.e.?
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Yes. Why not buddism or some other? I suppose that christianity pops first in to ones head. It being the main religion around here. And hinduism got covered in FS1, kind of. That was simply a harmless joke not intended to hurt anyone. But I guess we see now why they didn't use hindu names in FS2, don't we?
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Yes. Why not buddism or some other? I suppose that christianity pops first in to ones head. It being the main religion around here. And hinduism got covered in FS1, kind of. That was simply a harmless joke not intended to hurt anyone. But I guess we see now why they didn't use hindu names in FS2, don't we?
yes we do..
No offense taken, if no offense was meant.. sorry for the flaming...
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Rakshasa is FS2, Cain and Lilith are FS1 carryovers. The reason you're seeing so much cross-pollination between Shivan names in FS1 and FS2 is that a bunch of Shivan ships in FS1 also appeared in FS2. IIRC the wing names were all changed because of a few complaints that Hindus would find a "Destroy Vishnu" directive offensive. You wouldn't tell a Christian or Jew to blow up something named for his god, formulaic evil or not, would you?
Huh. I always wondered why they were removed from the game. Oh, well. I always liked 'em.
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Rakshasa:
In ancient Hindu myth, they are a classification of evil spirits who, on occasion, can sometimes also be friendly. They often battle the gods and are thought to hurt people at night. The Rakshas are led by Ravana, their king, and are the eternal enemies of Vishnu, one of the foremost divinities of the Hindu pantheon. The Rakshas are the descendants of Rishi Kashyapa, a sage and a seer. They usually appear in the shape of a dog or a bird with a fat body, or as a skeleton.
Ravana:
The ten-headed demon king of Ceylon in Hindu myth. With his forces of Rakshas he kidnappes Sita but she is rescued but Rama, who kills Ravana.
Seraphim: Divine creatures from the Old Testament, associated with the Cherubim, and later taken to be angels. The root of Seraphim comes either from the Hebrew verb saraph ('to burn') or the Hebrew noun saraph (a fiery, flying serpent). Because the term appears several times with reference to the serpents encountered in the wilderness (Num. 21.8, Deut. 8.15; Isa. 14.29; 30.6), it has often been understood to refer to "fiery serpents.
...
:nervous:
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I wonder what "Mara" comes from? Tough little so-and-so's...
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lol
Mara:
One of the two transcedent powers in Indian lore, Mara is the master magician of illusion, and became in Buddhist belief the Evil One. It was he who assailed the original Buddha, Gautama, as the priest lay in meditation under the Bo Tree. But Gautama gathered the gods to him, and Mara, shamed, retired. It is believed that he waits on the edge of the world, waiting to seize the souls of the dying. He is portrayed as a demonic creature with a hundred arms that rides an elephant.
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Close enough.
A very odd shape, the Mara. Looks like a spider.
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I have great respect for whoever managed to hi-poly the Mara, I wonder how they decided what details to put on.
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Inicidentally, I sort-of recall that in the inferno battle for earth (against the Nemesis) one of the ships you protect is the Ramanaya, which appears to be a misspelling of Ramayana. Ironic, since the Ramayana is the battle against the Ravana.
Actually, the Hindu figures used have mixed connotations: Ravana is supposed to be evil, and Shiva is a destroyer, but on the other hand you sometimes kill Vishnu wing.
The Seraphim remind me of the Nephilim, the fallen angels who first appear in Genesis 6, then crop up as one of the major players in Pullman's 'His Dark Materials' and Madeline L'Engles 'Many Waters', both fairly famous. They appear to be connected to the traditional Christian Satan, and are present in Jewish folklore.
Of course:
SB Seraphim - FS1 (right? It's been a long time since I played the FSport). Angelic, fiery beings described in some places in the bible. The fiery, streaking, image may be symbolic of the role of the Seraphim as relatively heavy bombers.
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The Seraphim remind me of the Nephilim, the fallen angels who first appear in Genesis 6
Actually the Nephilim (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/n/nephilim.html) are the children of those angels not the angels themselves. Some of their names should seem familiar too. Rephaim & Gibborim both appear in FS2.
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Acctually Shiva is suposed to be the destroyer OF evil.
"One who purifies everyone by the utterance of His name" or the "Pure One"
from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva
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It's not a coincidence that the Shivans are named after a God who is both destroyer and creator :D
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The Shivans seem to be a force for good in a way, watch the Freespace 1 end scene, it calls them "the great preservers."
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Now everything goes all AJOTF and the Shivans are good, Ancients are to be sympathised with, Vasudans are bad, and Bosch is good. :p
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Just like real life, it depends on your prespective.