Hard Light Productions Forums

Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Topic started by: Dwin on April 08, 2006, 10:34:24 am

Title: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 08, 2006, 10:34:24 am
So, do capital ships weapons have some kind of minimum range or something? 

I've set two of them to ai-chase each other. So they start firing at each other and moving closer towards each other. Then when they're close, they stop shooting at each other!

They're weapons systems are still functioning, as are their turrets.

What's going on?
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: karajorma on April 08, 2006, 11:00:00 am
The problem is caused by the ships getting so close to each other that they are out of the field of fire for their guns.

Don't use ai-chase with capships. You should script capship battles using waypoints. Not only does this solve your above problem but it also looks more like the show. You never saw the caps get really close to each other in the show except when ramming.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 08, 2006, 11:28:08 am
Hmm...I'll try that.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 09, 2006, 08:10:59 am
Not really a problem, just a question regarding TBP.

When you're placing a jumpgate, what's the differents between placing an entire jumpgate and placing the arms individually?
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Trivial Psychic on April 09, 2006, 11:07:08 am
It all depends on A, the size of the ship you want to enter through the gate, or B, whether the gate is required to come under attack at some point in the mission.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 09, 2006, 01:28:19 pm
Aah...if you wanted a jumpgate to be destroyed, you'd want it to piece by piece.

 :yes:
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 09, 2006, 01:57:59 pm
karajorma, are you working on the BSG mod?

YOU. ARE. GODS.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 09, 2006, 04:10:51 pm
Incoming question!

What would I use if I want to trigger an event when a player has moved to a certain area? A waypoint? Navpoint?
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: karajorma on April 09, 2006, 05:03:52 pm
Measure the distance from a waypoint. Once it's less than a certain amount the player is in the new area.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 09, 2006, 05:44:09 pm
Thanks. So what about navpoints?
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Shade on April 09, 2006, 05:58:50 pm
Same thing. Any object that can be placed in FRED, you can measure the distance to. And if you want to measure the distance to the middle of nowhere, just plop down an otherwise unused waypoint there and measure the distance to that, and noone will know better.

All these measurements result in a circular area though, but are simple and need only one distance check. If you want something else, things get a bit more complex.

Say you want the player to be within a square area, things get a bit more complex. Best way to do squares is by checking the absolute coordinates of the player with get-object-x/y/z and comparing that against the boundaries of the desired area. This only works when the boundaries are perfectly aligned with the 3 axes though.

If you want an area that's not circular, but with boundaries not aligned with the 3 primary axes, you approximate it by placing waypoints very, very, very far away for each side of the area, and then checking distance from those. The sides will be ever so slightly concave or convex though, but if you place the waypoints far enough away it will be negligeble.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: karajorma on April 09, 2006, 08:15:39 pm
Navpoints were added for the Wing Commander Saga team and they basically are designed to give you the ability to autopilot yourself and other wings or even capships to points very far away. IIRC you can use them like waypoints for simple distance measuring. Unlike waypoints Navpoints can be made to show up on the HUD.

Say you want the player to be within a square area, things get a bit more complex. Best way to do squares is by checking the absolute coordinates of the player with get-object-x/y/z and comparing that against the boundaries of the desired area. This only works when the boundaries are perfectly aligned with the 3 axes though.

Actually the best way is to use the new num-within-box SEXP :)
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 12, 2006, 06:45:21 pm
Does the "takes place in subspace" feature work in TPB? Cause the game crashed when I tried to play a missionwith that ticked.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: 0rph3u5 on April 13, 2006, 07:30:46 am
no it does not work...
to simulate hyperspace use the full nebula option and use only the both hyperspace pofs (the two ones on top of the list)
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: karajorma on April 13, 2006, 10:05:11 am
Does the "takes place in subspace" feature work in TPB? Cause the game crashed when I tried to play a missionwith that ticked.

Ironically enough the exact same thing would have happened with FS2. :D FS2_Open fixed this of course :)
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Shade on April 13, 2006, 11:10:46 am
Quote
Actually the best way is to use the new num-within-box SEXP
Nice! When'd that get in? Definitely going to make life a lot easier for those situations :)
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: karajorma on April 13, 2006, 12:38:48 pm
It was added right at the end of last year by WMC.

I think we need a better way of announcing changes for the SCP. If you don't watch the SCP forum like a hawk it's easy to miss new things. If you missed num-within-box you've probably missed several of my new SEXPs too.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Shade on April 13, 2006, 12:53:17 pm
Yeah, I'd be surprised if I didn't. I watch it closer now than I used to though so anything recent I'm probably aware of. Perhaps the wiki would be a good place to keep a list of SCP sexps?

In fact the wiki start page seems practically devoid of any FRED related links or information, so maybe a new FRED portal on the main under which we could have that list of the new sexps, as well as whatever else might come in handy such as the various command line options, a troubleshooting page for common problems, and anything that might already be in the wiki but is hard to find due to there not being a portal for it.

I'd certainly be willing to put in some time to help flesh out such a portal. Would get it started myself actually but I am unable to edit the main page to add it.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: karajorma on April 13, 2006, 01:01:58 pm
I've been meaning to transfer large quantities of my FAQ to the wiki for some time now. There's a lot of stuff in there that definitely should be on the wiki. Only problem is that every time I try I spot error and inconsistencies in the FAQ and end up updating it instead :)
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Shade on April 13, 2006, 01:09:21 pm
That would be a very good start, and the wiki could certainly use some love. Not least in the layout, half of the problem imo is that even if information is there, it's difficult to find. There actually is a FRED category, but it's not readily accessible and, to be honest, not that well stocked with useful information either. Anyway, if we can just get a wiki admin to set up a FRED portal, I'd be happy to help get that sorted out :)

[Edit] I was wrong, I can create the portal, I just can't add it to the main page. So I'll go ahead and set it up with some basic categories to add stuff in for now.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Shade on April 13, 2006, 02:18:42 pm
Here's a start, at least: The FRED Portal (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Portal:FRED). Set up the portal, arranged the few existing FRED articles into proper and accessible categories and set up a few links to non-existant articles that should definitely be made (such as the sexp reference that got this started). The portal isn't linked to from anywhere yet though. Well, from anywhere but here.

Can start adding stuff to it now :)

Anyway, should probably take any further discussion to the wiki forum.

[Edit] Wanderer was nice enough to add it to the main page without even being asked to, so seems like it's good to go :)
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: karajorma on April 13, 2006, 04:15:45 pm
I'll have a look and add some things myself :)
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Shade on April 13, 2006, 06:09:01 pm
Made a post in the wiki forum for discussing it, so we can stop spamming the poor TBP people.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,39355.0.html
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 13, 2006, 11:49:05 pm
Okay, I have a mission that takes place inside a nebula ( hyperspace for TBP setting). So, do nebulae affect engines or something? Cause a number of my ships became disabled very quickly.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: karajorma on April 14, 2006, 02:38:32 am
Nope. It's probably just that it's taking you longer to shoot the enemy disabling those ships most likely :)
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 14, 2006, 10:30:36 am
Navpoints were added for the Wing Commander Saga team and they basically are designed to give you the ability to autopilot yourself and other wings or even capships to points very far away. IIRC you can use them like waypoints for simple distance measuring. Unlike waypoints Navpoints can be made to show up on the HUD.

Autopilot?
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Shade on April 14, 2006, 10:34:26 am
It's a new feature added for the WCS.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 14, 2006, 10:57:25 am
Yup, I just took a look at it in the controls menu. I really should try to figure things out before I open my mouth.

This autopilot and cycle navpoint doesnt seem to work in TBP though...or am I doing something wrong...?
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: karajorma on April 14, 2006, 11:41:03 am
To be honest the navpoint system is a complete mystery to me too. I've been meaning to sit down and puzzle it out for ages.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 14, 2006, 02:11:22 pm
Ah, okay.

What does a jumpnode do?
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Shade on April 14, 2006, 02:15:34 pm
By default? Nothing. It looks pretty on the hud. It's entirely in the hands of the mission designer to script any interaction with jump nodes through dis/enabling warp at appropriate times and perhaps the depart-node-delay (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Depart-node-delay) sexp.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 14, 2006, 05:01:04 pm
So it just serves as a hud indicator?
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Shade on April 14, 2006, 05:16:37 pm
On the bottom line, that's all they are. But when used as a plot or gameplay element, they can be much more.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Slasher on April 14, 2006, 06:11:44 pm
Basically what you see in FRED2 is what you get regarding the jump nodes.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 14, 2006, 06:14:39 pm
 :yes:

Got it. Thanks.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 14, 2006, 11:47:29 pm
How do I get rid of suns?

Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: 0rph3u5 on April 15, 2006, 04:36:12 am
dunno...
put them there where nobody is likely to see into them...
or place a normal planet in front of it - should work
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Shade on April 15, 2006, 11:40:01 am
I actually have no idea. I'd like to know this as much as you.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Slasher on April 15, 2006, 04:08:26 pm
In oldschool FRED2, removing an actual localized light source like this was impossible.  You could remove the actual graphic that represented a sun but the game would still put the light source in the game.  In essence you would look into the blackness of space at some random spot and the glare of a sun would make the screen go white as though a sun were actually there.  I don't know if this has been changed.

If this hasn't changed, you're stuck with a light source one way or another.  As mentioned before, you can make the source of the light invisible in a way by using one of the "ambient_x" suns (replace x with the color of your choice in FRED2), but you'll get the whitewash effect when looking in the direction of that graphic even though an actual star won't be visible in game.
Title: Re: More Mission Editor Woes
Post by: Dwin on April 15, 2006, 06:42:07 pm
Yea, that was the first thing I tried, Slasher. I'm using an ambient red instead of a sun, but the sun is still there.