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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: redsniper on April 14, 2006, 12:58:41 am

Title: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: redsniper on April 14, 2006, 12:58:41 am
...and it was trippy :eek::wtf:. The show just finished its run on Adult Swim and despite the infamously weird ending I enjoyed it immensely. The whole anime had an old-school charm to it; I'm always impressed by older animes since they're completely hand drawn (I think) and yet still look awesome. This has easily become my favorite anime and I think I may just go out and buy it on DVD. And yes, I'm aware that there's a movie which supposedly clears up the ending and such. I haven't seen it yet so please don't spoil anything. I've had it downloaded for a while now and I've just been waiting for the series to end, but I won't have access to my computer for a few days :(. Also, I know that some people really just don't like Evangelion and I don't want this to turn into a thread arguing over why the show either rocks or sucks.
Well, it's late and I'm really tired. Maybe this is a stupid post but I won't have the mental capacity to realize that until morning. Expect further posting after I've seen the movie or if I just feel like it.
That is all. You may return to your regular posting schedule. Good night. :P
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 14, 2006, 01:06:35 am
I just couldn't get into the psychoanalysis, and End of Evangelion is even odder.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mefustae on April 14, 2006, 01:07:39 am
It's a pretty good series, definitely one of the best anime series out there, and there are actually two movies, which - just so you know - continue on from episode 24 if i'm not mistaken. The first one - Death & Rebirth - basically recaps the entire series and fills in a few gaps here and there story-wise, giving you an alternate episode 25, and ending with with Unit 02 in one of the best looking... hell, the best looking battle i've ever seen in a cartoon. The second movie - The End of Evangelion - picks up right at the end of episode 24, replays the final half an hour of Death & Rebirth, and then continues on. Then it goes... sorta... wierd. Seriously, if you thought the final couple of episodes were out-there, wait until you see the second movie. It's a confounding conlcusion that really doesn't make all that much sense, really, but it's definitely a good watch... if you can wrap your head around it, anway...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 14, 2006, 01:19:34 am
Quote
if you thought the final couple of episodes were out-there, wait until you see the second movie. It's a confounding conlcusion that really doesn't make all that much sense, really, but it's definitely a good watch... if you can wrap your head around it, anway...

Basically you should play "XenoGears" (PSX/1998), it takes a view point 99% of Evangelion, clearing almost everything even the so called "God" (which indeed it was in the right definition of "God"), SquareSoft make an excellent job with it, plus the XenoGears is very much like an evangelion, is very much like the same in every aspect, XenoGears is the 5th Episode of XenoSaga (which has 8th episodes I believe), they continues into the Ps2 from the 1st chapters, but the mayor revelation is in XenoGears...

After you play this, Evangelion mostly should be child's play to understand, if not then you didn't pay attention to the game.....
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Kamikaze on April 14, 2006, 01:26:04 am
Most overrated anime IMHO.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Ransom on April 14, 2006, 03:25:11 am
I have to agree with Kamikaze.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Turnsky on April 14, 2006, 04:02:58 am
Most overrated anime IMHO.

overrated being an understatement, if you could even understand what the hell was going on, the physics would make anyone wince.

yeah, i saw it, my opinion was "eh"
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Grug on April 14, 2006, 04:28:08 am
I came for the battles, stayed for the characters, and was taken away by the sheer depth of the show.
I love how its not just a this is badguy, so we shoot em.
There is so much depth to the show I can't put it in words.

The ending was a little weird but I still somehow enjoyed it, if not even fully understood it. :)
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Ulala on April 14, 2006, 11:50:19 am
I just hated the episode where in his mind Shinji (sp?) had to realize that people didn't hate him or whatever. The whole time I wanted to yell at him to shut up and get over it. Never saw the last movie, a friend said it was so weird it wasn't really worth it. Maybe he was wrong?
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Unknown Target on April 14, 2006, 11:56:28 am
Evangelion was ok...but Shinji was just annoyingly pathetic to me. I didn't like the series much because of his pathetic character. I know it was a big part, and I don't want a John Wayne, but I do want a character that doesnt baul his head off at someone closing the door behind them after he's done talking to them.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Ghostavo on April 14, 2006, 01:37:46 pm
The last two episodes are just the Instrumentality Project taking place.

If you want wierd watch the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Unknown Target on April 14, 2006, 02:00:36 pm
The problem with anime really is that all of their characters are the same and 2 dimensional. Evanglion is probably so celebrated because OMG OMG OMG it has a character that isnt the usual punk/goth/emo rebel who hates the law and plays by nobody's rules but has his uncontrollable super power that he eventually has to control so he can go on a gigantic quest to find the bad guy while collecting something along the whole way that will help him beat the bad guy.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Polpolion on April 14, 2006, 02:03:21 pm
That show was the weirdest ever. The last episode (from what I remember) was pretty much a clip show of the dude (shinji?) going crazy. He already had severe mental issues, along with pretty much everyone else.

The final movie was strange. Except for the part with the flamethrower ;7 . That was a good part.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: NGTM-1R on April 14, 2006, 02:42:31 pm
I gave up on NGE when I found out an Eva could only run for about 5 minutes without an external power source. So, that was...years before I even saw an episode. :p

Regardless I did watch the first ten or so. My hatred of Shinji knows no bounds now. Amuro did the unwilling protagonist so much better it's not even funny. And considering the age of Mobile Suit Gundam as compared to NGE...well, it essentially comes down to "production team on crack".

Eva is pretty trippy, but if you really want something that makes absolutely zero sense, watch Serial Experiments Lain. I own the DVDs, I've watched the whole thing upwards of ten times...I still don't get it.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Ghostavo on April 14, 2006, 04:59:02 pm
Evanglion is probably so celebrated because OMG OMG OMG it has a character that isnt the usual punk/goth/emo rebel who hates the law and plays by nobody's rules but has his uncontrollable super power that he eventually has to control so he can go on a gigantic quest to find the bad guy while collecting something along the whole way that will help him beat the bad guy.


 :wtf:
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Ransom on April 14, 2006, 04:59:17 pm
The problem with anime really is that all of their characters are the same and 2 dimensional.
Er... that's hardly a problem unique to anime.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Unknown Target on April 14, 2006, 05:26:28 pm
The problem with anime really is that all of their characters are the same and 2 dimensional.
Er... that's hardly a problem unique to anime.

No, but it's a problem that almost all anime shares. Just because other media has the problem doesn't make it any less true that 99% of anime has horrible characters and cookie-cutter storylines.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Ransom on April 14, 2006, 05:30:04 pm
I'd say the same is true for pretty much every other medium.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: redsniper on April 14, 2006, 05:33:30 pm
So do the movies have any plot progression/development? Do they tie up any of the loose ends from the series before going trippy? And did anyone find that part in the last episode where all the characters are in a sitcom kind of situation to be creepier than the rest of the show? Hearing Gendo and Yui tease each other over morning coffee just gave me the willies somehow :nervous:.
Oh, and about Shinji being a whiny pansy...
Spoiler:
Although he did act like a wuss at times, I feel that he more than made up for it in episode 19. That is, the one where he quits NERV, the angel with ribbony arms shows up, he goes back to NERV and then basically wipes the floor with the angel. (Until the power runs out.)
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: ZylonBane on April 14, 2006, 05:33:51 pm
Anime "shares"??
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: TrashMan on April 14, 2006, 05:49:40 pm
Evangelion overrated?

Depends how you look at it.... it had a good comedy factor and some cool battles, but if you're looking for more than that you're in the wrong place.
Of course, that's my view of it..all tha psycho s*** killed it totaly...actually it started to die even before that, but that was the final nail in the coffin.

2D charachters in  anime? Hell, anime charachters have usually more depth that half the charachters from the latest block-busters of teen shows or anything that comes of out Holywood in general!

Of course, the lowest by-products of anime are utterly awfull, and they are in 90% of cases made for comedy, but you can't judge only by those.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: aldo_14 on April 14, 2006, 05:50:07 pm
Anime "shares"??

Anime is a shortened form of the Japanese for 'animation'.

I believe 'almost all animation shares' is a valid phrase, if that's what you're referring to.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Polpolion on April 14, 2006, 07:02:19 pm
Anime is a shortened form of the Japanese for 'animation'.
Anime is the stupidest word ever. It should be destroyed.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: aldo_14 on April 14, 2006, 07:05:13 pm
Anime is the stupidest word ever. It should be destroyed.

Says a man with a marquee text signature.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: BlackDove on April 14, 2006, 08:12:32 pm
Evangelion overrated?

Depends how you look at it.... it had a good comedy factor and some cool battles, but if you're looking for more than that you're in the wrong place only if you are unable to understand /or/ are too young to know the basic human psychology and the fundamental aspects of three or more religions.


I added the bold part to make your statement true.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mefustae on April 14, 2006, 08:49:23 pm
Whatever you may think of it, I think we can all agree the art-style is pretty damned fine...

(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2231/capture3fn.png)
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Bobboau on April 14, 2006, 09:54:29 pm
blah blah bla blah bleh bla blah blah blabydy blah Serial Experiments Lain.

GAHHH!!!!!!!
/*my head a slpode!!!*/
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: NGTM-1R on April 14, 2006, 10:21:23 pm
Yeah, that was about my reaction first time I watched it. I think I'm desensitized now.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 14, 2006, 11:55:50 pm
Quote
I gave up on NGE when I found out an Eva could only run for about 5 minutes without an external power source. So, that was...years before I even saw an episode.

This is true, an Eva can even't fly and can't really match another robots specs from another series (except for the Eva 01 with wings), not only that but they aren't really mechanical, so they go more into "fantasy" section...

Quote
Eva is pretty trippy, but if you really want something that makes absolutely zero sense, watch Serial Experiments Lain. I own the DVDs, I've watched the whole thing upwards of ten times...I still don't get it.

Yes, Lain reputation comes from this exact point, "can you understand Shin Seiki Evangelion story?, then see Serial Experiments Lain, and tell me..."
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Setekh on April 15, 2006, 01:09:14 am
GAHHH!!!!!!!
/*my head a slpode!!!*/

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: ZylonBane on April 15, 2006, 11:53:09 am
This is true, an Eva can even't fly and can't really match another robots specs from another series (except for the Eva 01 with wings), not only that but they aren't really mechanical, so they go more into "fantasy" section...
I'm not sure why exactly, but this paragraph makes me want to cockpunch you.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mr_Maniac on April 15, 2006, 12:41:21 pm
The best thing in the movie:
Rei Ayanami :)

She's somehow cute, isn't she?
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Bobboau on April 15, 2006, 12:50:59 pm
you know that both she and the evas are basicly Shinji's mother, right?

adds a whole new layer of fuct don't it?
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: redsniper on April 15, 2006, 03:42:42 pm
Quote
I gave up on NGE when I found out an Eva could only run for about 5 minutes without an external power source. So, that was...years before I even saw an episode.

This is true, an Eva can even't fly and can't really match another robots specs from another series (except for the Eva 01 with wings), not only that but they aren't really mechanical, so they go more into "fantasy" section...
But you see, Evas don't need to fly. They're basically invincible because of their AT fields and can only be hurt by other Evas or Angels (AFAIK). They have the 5 minute battery life for this reason. I'm pretty sure they could have designed them to run off of nuclear power or something like that but instead gave them the dependence on external power so that if things really hit the fan they could only cause 5 minutes worth of devastation.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Unknown Target on April 15, 2006, 03:54:11 pm
Evangelion overrated?

Depends how you look at it.... it had a good comedy factor and some cool battles, but if you're looking for more than that you're in the wrong place.
Of course, that's my view of it..all tha psycho s*** killed it totaly...actually it started to die even before that, but that was the final nail in the coffin.

I have all of those prequesits and I still think it's pretty poop.

Quote
2D charachters in  anime? Hell, anime charachters have usually more depth that half the charachters from the latest block-busters of teen shows or anything that comes of out Holywood in general!

Why is the automatic argument for most people in favor of anime is "Well Hollywood is worse" - so what? Does something else being worse somehow make the other one not bad? That's like saying that Bang! Gunship Elite wasn't bad because Daikatana was worse. It doesn't hide the fact that 99.9% of anime characters have no personality.
Not only that, but a lot of American cinema still has better characters anyway. Now, I'm not saying that all anime is bad or with 2D characters (Macross, the original Gundam, Ghost in the Shell, Evanglion, etc), but a lot of them are. And anime makers nowadays don't seem to grasp that; a lot of people's idea of an "innovative" and "incredible" anime are ones with storylines so complex and wrapped up in themselves that it's impossible to understand - not with good characters or what not, just a convoluted storyline (a good example being Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex - although the characters are good, take a look at the last episode in the series, it falls victim to the Matrix's "Evil Colonel Sanders" routine and spends most of the time with high handed blabbering).

Quote
Of course, the lowest by-products of anime are utterly awfull, and they are in 90% of cases made for comedy, but you can't judge only by those.

But you're judging by the big 80% of American cinema that's throw-away one shot trash, why can't I do the same with the 90% of anime? I'm not trying to turn this into an America vs. anything, I'm just using Hollywood as an example because, with possibly the exception of Bollywood (in India) and anime, it is one the largest producer of visual entertainment in the world. Anyway, a lot of anime is trash, which is why when something like Evanglion comes along, they hold it so high up on a pedestal - because they don't have anything else to compare it to.A comparable example would be Halo 1 on the Xbox: Xbox magazines ranted and raved about it, because they had no other good FPSs for the Xbox to compare it to. Once Halo 1 came to the PC though, it was pretty much forgotten, because we have better things to compare it to and play.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: butter_pat_head on April 15, 2006, 04:08:21 pm
Quote
I gave up on NGE when I found out an Eva could only run for about 5 minutes without an external power source. So, that was...years before I even saw an episode.

This is true, an Eva can even't fly and can't really match another robots specs from another series (except for the Eva 01 with wings), not only that but they aren't really mechanical, so they go more into "fantasy" section...
But you see, Evas don't need to fly. They're basically invincible because of their AT fields and can only be hurt by other Evas or Angels (AFAIK). They have the 5 minute battery life for this reason. I'm pretty sure they could have designed them to run off of nuclear power or something like that but instead gave them the dependence on external power so that if things really hit the fan they could only cause 5 minutes worth of devastation.

AFAIK, AT field generation isn't linked to battery life and secondly, as brought up in ep 7, putting a nuclear reactor on something that is mainly used for hand-to-hand combat isn't a good idea.  Ep 6 and Ep 22 show that a AT-field can be brought down by either a positron rifle powered by the entirety of Japan, or the Lance of Longinus.

Anyway, those of you that havn't yet, go watch End of Evangelion and forget about Death and Rebirth.

As for the 5 min limit, it is shown that on 4 seperate occasions EVA has moved without a active power supply and 5 mins is more than enough time to total nearly all of NERV hq.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Ulala on April 15, 2006, 05:19:01 pm
Random question, did you guys watch the dubbed version or the japanese with subtitles?
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Fineus on April 15, 2006, 05:20:53 pm
No, but it's a problem that almost all anime shares. Just because other media has the problem doesn't make it any less true that 99% of anime has horrible characters and cookie-cutter storylines.
That's a really horrible generalisation/opinion :)
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mr. Vega on April 15, 2006, 05:34:09 pm
Evangelion was a great anime, even if it was horribly flawed. The whole plot was crap, even if Anno's direction made the imagery absolutely stunning (which is the real reason people think the plot is much better than it really is), but sometimes Anno just ignored the plot and just concentrated on delving into the souls of the main characters. Even then it failed to say some of things it could have and should have said, but what Evangelion did say still makes it one of the most honestly moving pieces of art I have ever seen.

It seems like me and http://www.abcb.com/eva/essay_02.htm<-this guy are the only people that think that the original ending was the better one.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: TrashMan on April 15, 2006, 06:47:24 pm
Granted - a lot of animes have bad storyline or bad charachters, but some peopel are just over-generalizing.

It's like saying "every movie to come out of holywood is crap!".

I'm rather picky when it comes to anime, so the ones I watched fully are usually the best ones, alltough I have seen snippets and episodes of lots of leser quality ones.. Still, I think that a conclusion for 2D charachters is not valid.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 15, 2006, 09:37:24 pm
Quote
I'm not sure why exactly, but this paragraph makes me want to cockpunch you.

"Ignorance" probabily, the story and characters are fine, I am talking about the mechs specifically....this the response I would get from really young people, which falls into the "fan" category, they get so blind by a series that fail to realize certain obvious things...(read below please, I won't explain this again)

Quote
They're basically invincible because of their AT fields

Which argument do you have that proves they are invincible with the AT field activated ?

------------------------------------------------

Please, people quit doing fan's comments, I won't explain this again: basically everything started with Super Robot, any japanese mech correspond that have an animated series and even Mangas (Getter/Mazinger/Gundam/Evangelion/etc.),  is soon or later included in SR, this is basic knowledge to talk about mechs from different series, and specifically make a comparation of mechs overall specs, abilities and skills:

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/Shadow0000/Gamexxxx06.jpg)

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/Shadow0000/Gamexxxx03.jpg)

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/Shadow0000/Gamexxxx05.jpg)

Basically all japanese mechs are "shared" and linked by SR binds, don't you think I have already made a battle simulation power comparison, but I am afraid I am afraid that experience it's surely nothing compared about some affirmations without arguments...

And no, the AT field don't make the mech invincible, is just another illusion created by fans...the AT field just works as a shield (it can be destroyed), a erratic version of a shield since it doesn't always work well, considering your mech invincible because it has an active AT field would surely take you to a certain defeat (and death)...

So, please kids, remember to do your homework....I am just pissed of fans which say "I see the entire series, so I know everything about it". I am not a fan, it doesn't mean I am unable to know which mechs from which series are the strongest among all of them, evas are good at some point and worse at many others, specially space since they were never desingned for that use....
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: NGTM-1R on April 15, 2006, 10:26:42 pm
Frankly I wouldn't take Super Robot as a fair comparison either. (In fact, I wouldn't even try and treat it as canonical at all. It screws up too many things, and must.) Besides, why bother when you can kill it on pure tactics?

The five-minute time limit means an EVA is basically doomed against anything capable of flight and posessing a pilot with half a brain and a basic understanding of the EVA's functioning. You can either sever the power cable or track it back to the generator and blast that; doesn't really matter either way. Then it's a simple matter of outdistancing the EVA and waiting five minutes.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 15, 2006, 10:52:19 pm
Quote
(In fact, I wouldn't even try and treat it as canonical at all. It screws up too many things, and must.)

It's not canonical, I said not to the characters and story, I am talking about mechs specifically, basically this was later used for making Marvel vs. Capcom, see where is there is no real canon in MvC...also Namco does the same with it's RPG series nemed "Tales"

Quote
Frankly I wouldn't take Super Robot as a fair comparison either

Yes, I would, models, skills, weapons and story are licenssed and everything which appears is not like Banpresto just create them, and even if they would want they can't , it would be against the license, most EMP would surely disrupt most robots from another series, but while Evas are not really mechanical at all, they have that adventage, specially in berserker mode.

Super Robot doesn't screw it, it just gives the same mission which happens at "xxxx" series, and makes add to let you use robots from another series in that battle, but the story, scenaries, and characters are the same...SR was never designed with the intention of screwing anything, barely later after you have passed over the original stories of mech's anime, add some exclusive really powerful enemy that all mech's will end fightning. Aside from that SR has it own "Original Generation" which is the exclusive story of SR with robots from SR series but not any other, so if they want to do some drastic they do it in there, they don't have any necessity of screwing anything...the point of SR is that you can see and play most (if not all) of the events that happen in mech's series with some addition, screwing the story would just be the opposite...

Quote
The five-minute time limit means an EVA is basically doomed against anything capable of flight and posessing a pilot with half a brain and a basic understanding of the EVA's functioning. You can either sever the power cable or track it back to the generator and blast that; doesn't really matter either way. Then it's a simple matter of outdistancing the EVA and waiting five minutes.

The 5 minutes limits is only true after the start of the Eva series, there have been many ways to extend this, the Nuclear reator and what happens with Eva 01 at the very end of evangelion, not only that but if they go berserker they don't really need a power supply. The difference is that many other mech series like Gundam have robot's specs, usually gundam's source of energy is a ultracompact nuclear fission reactor with specific power output rated xx, that means their power source is enough for long time, much more than a battle...

Quote
Besides, why bother when you can kill it on pure tactics?

If it goes berserker you're dead, mechs suffers transformation along series, this the Eva 01 case, as the series progress those weak points are usually improved...reliying on the enemy weakness isn't a good way of destroy it and prove xxxx mech is better, because if you're wrong then you're death...aside that you're talking about "kill" something which is stopped and has no movement, is that the case, then take that mech for you, don't waste it...
Even if another mech can fly Evas have really good additional long-range weapons, so it would be safer to be near it than away from it, there aren't much good close range weapons for evas...

-------------------------------------------------------

The conclusion is simple, Evas are limited in Boosters, hand-to-hand beam weapons, and high-energy guns all due to the lack of a good energy source, like a nuclear reactor. That's the only main and worst point with other mechs, any other difference is not really important at all to consider then worse...

-------------------------------------------------------

There is nothing more really to talk here, Evas lack from an energy source and so their performance is really halved, people can accept it or just free to believe whatever they like, it's everyone opinnion, but respect other opinnions, I'll just be reasonable and comprensive with someone who treats me the same way (do someone get the word reciprocal respect), I am satisficied because I know which ones are more reliable in a fight...and I have nothing wrong against Evangelion or any other series (but yes I really like the story, is very different from any other mech series)
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: redsniper on April 16, 2006, 01:02:01 am
Hm, this is starting to sound like Star Wars vs Star Trek :doubt:... Anyways, I'm not well versed in anime robot stats neither am I some mindless Eva fanboy. I was under the impression that AT fields couldn't be damaged by conventional weapons since the UN could never kill them, even with nukes. (Although now that I think about it, the N2 mines hurt them a little bit so they're not completely invincible) Still, the only things to ever seriously hurt or kill Evas or Angels were other Evas and Angels. I also remember when that Angel was going to crash down onto NERV HQ from orbit, Misato was thinking to herself that even though the entire city and HQ underground would be destroyed, the Evas would somehow survive. Finally, when it comes to hand to hand combat I'm a fan of Gundam energy swords as much as the next guy, but an Eva tearing out something's organs and muscles with it's bare hands is just hardcore :D.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 16, 2006, 01:26:27 am
Quote
AT fields couldn't be damaged by conventional weapons since the UN could never kill them

This is right, but Evas could damage Angels, because in this case is like a Shield technology, the AT Field is just the "Absolute Terror" field (do you see why I do this mechs goes more into fantasy), however yes, a Gundam would surely be vaporized if he get's near a sun, or suffer too much heat, energy shield's are almost non-existant in Gundam (there are some exceptions), the AT Field is a great adventage that Evas and Angels have, however yes there are other mechs which also have this kind of feature (not gundams).

Aside from this, this is because a Nuke thens to do more spread damage than a Beam, again Evangelion wasn't too developed to have those weapons, that's until the Plasma Rifle is introduced, if you check that out the energy was so focused in one point, that it ends piercing the Angel...

In Evangelion, humans also have an AT Field, barely is like the aura, basically somekind of one's energy, and as an energy it is you can run out of it, so in this case you can consider Shinji somewhat has super powers, if you would have placed another pilot, it's Sync would have been really low and not even be able to control the Eva and use properly it's AT field....

-----------------------------------------

Quote
Gundam energy swords as much as the next guy, but an Eva tearing out something's organs and muscles with it's bare hands is just hardcore Big grin.

It is... :lol: (if you like that part, XenoGears has some good ones like that, you just get an impression like: do it needeed to be too grotesque and bizarre?)

Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: redsniper on April 16, 2006, 01:35:37 am
(do you see why I do this mechs goes more into fantasy)
True. I'll be the first to admit that an Eva doesn't seem like something that could actually exist... but I still want to drive one to school.
(that is sig material if I do say so myself, but who am I to judge?)
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: NGTM-1R on April 16, 2006, 01:38:39 am
SR has to nerf a lot of the participants. Because let's face it, getting instantly annihilated by the UBERCANNONTHINGIEOFDOOM!!! (yes, it has to be said that way!) sucks. Whether it's a twin buster buster rifle, a satellite cannon, or the Main Gun, the death-instant-and-without-recourse shot is alive and well. And it tends to murder gameplay.

I try to block out the berserk, because it escaped from Copoutland, Plotdevica. Nonetheless, you have a point on that. Still and all, when you get right down to it an EVA has only two basic advantages: its control system (direct neural; you are the EVA, the EVA is you, with the vastly greater agility and fine control that grants), and sheer physical size (at a minimum of 80 feet, the EVAs tower over most designs). Neither of those are strictly unique. Everything else is a question mark.

EVA really only made two descents into total impossiblity; AT-Fields and the berserk mode.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 16, 2006, 01:58:32 am
Quote
Whether it's a twin buster buster rifle, a satellite cannon, or the Main Gun, the death-instant-and-without-recourse shot is alive and well. And it tends to murder gameplay.

The Twin-buster Rifle correspond to the Gundam W, the satellite cannon could be the Libra (Installation) main gun, though the true Satellite Cannon was used in the Gundam XX (Double X), the Eva 01 was able to use the Plasma Rifle which is one of the most powerful I have seen for mech, do somoeone noticed that the Eva's Plasma Rifle (that kind of guitar weapon) is used in Armored Core, I believe AC copy it and not the opposite.

Again those weapons are powerful, but they aren't the strongest, those are weapons to be feared by something with no evasion, which can't move, as you see the Plasma Rifle is used over an Angel with the position was start, in Gundam the Installations have problems with this...but again that's because they can't move...

Quote
(at a minimum of 80 feet, the EVAs tower over most designs). Neither of those are strictly unique. Everything else is a question mark.

Gundams are around 16.7 meters in height.....

------------------------------------------------------------------

I have something to post about Evangelion, which will bring a sensation of pain to much people, it's not my fault, but again it's something that people would prefer to not known until the last moment and they have no other choice than facing a future true...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mefustae on April 16, 2006, 01:58:47 am
EVA really only made two descents into total impossiblity; AT-Fields and the berserk mode.
Well, as Evas are somewhat technically alive, going Beserk and ripping everything within a 20-mile radius to shreds isn't all that unbelievable... of course, a beserk Eva isn't exactly going to engage in any sort of tactics, so an opponent would definitely be able to use that to their advantage when facing down the 20-story behemoth...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 16, 2006, 02:07:10 am
yeah, basically the impossible or unbeliavable is that they are alive, being alive is more than enough to justify they can go berseker...

-------------------------------------------

Eva were designed to fight against Angels, basically because they have an AT field like the Angels, so the technology and power is at the very same level, again a "machine" (or a normal mech) doesn't have an AT field, so that simply means what Eva and Angels are......they are alive, otherwise it's impossible to have an AT field
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Bobboau on April 16, 2006, 02:32:35 am
look, you can't compare, Evas basicly incorperate magical force feilds that can only be countered by another magical foce feild.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 16, 2006, 02:54:09 am
Quote
Hm, this is starting to sound like Star Wars vs Star Trek ... Anyway

That's why SR exists, it clears many doubts about and pilot's skills and mech's specs, is not something about "hey this is better", in overall they are all cool, eva's desing specially the Eva 01 head looks damn good in the desing, even when it is not moving it looks like it is alive and ready to eat you, there's not something to be really fightning for...it's just official reference from SR, not a fan's invention...just some knowledge with a basis in a official argument...

Quote
look, you can't compare, Evas basicly incorperate magical force feilds that can only be countered by another magical foce feild.

A - I was avoiding saying "Magical Force Field", I wrote "fantasy" but well...I bet if I ended writing "Magical Force Field" people would just kill me, but yes between calling it Absolute Terror Field and the other there isn't much difference about how it works, but AT sounds much better

B - No, the Plasma Rifle seems to have so much power (all Japan energy generators) and was able to destroy the Angel, that just tells you that it's power doesn't come from the AT Field but energy that can be generated artificially by humans....so it's not true that they are invincible except against something with an AT field
There are many other series which works with "magic" that are older in SR, "magic" means "magic", it doesn't mean something "magical" is "invincible", just that it's supposed to be unnusual and out of our actual "knowledge"...

Quote
you can't compare

It's not me comparing, it's SR, it was much decades ago than Eva was released so...like Kunio Okawara, Hajime Katoki, Koichi Tokita which are Gundam W main mech's designers have giving the go to the overall specs in SR, also NGE mech's designers (Yamashi-ta Ikuto and creator Anno Hideaki) must have act the same, the Eva's are their creations, if they let use them for SR they will surely won't let anyone else screw their specs.

There is no real point in creating something "invincible", where would be the fun if you produce something like a ship which is "invincible" ?, I bet most people would just hate to by piloting and invincible ship or mecha...you can just try it in FS2 hack the TBLs and see how fun is to fight with something which can't be destroyed...besides if a mech designer made something which is invincible, which would he desing later a "super-invincible" Class ship/mecha ?

---------------------------------------------------------------

It seems there will produced (by Richard Taylor) an US version Live Action Movie of "Neon Genesis Evangelion" (Shin Seiki Evangelion) that will be finished in later 2006. NGE movie will take place in New York, not in Tokyo, just because the placement of all the needed resources would be harder, one of the companies involved is WETA, which was the company involved for making the effects in LOTR, it is still don't well know if the characters will be done through CG (3D) or will be actors:

**Announcement in Japanese at Gainax Official Web Site (In Japanese):

http://www.gainax.co.jp/anime/eva/hollywood.html

**Interview with Richard Taylor (Producer):

http://eva.trivialbeing.net/

**IMDb entry (Earth's Biggest Movie Database):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0400911/

**WETA Project:

http://www.wetaworkshop.co.nz/projects/filmography/film/neon_genesis

**WETA Filmography (galleries):

http://www.wetaworkshop.co.nz/projects/filmography/galleries/neon_genesis

**If you select the Angel names here you'll see some of the Human versions that Gainax designed (like the Angel 17, Tabris):

http://www.gainax.co.jp/goods/angel_xx/01.html

------------------------------------------------

It seems that the company in charge says they will try to keep stick to the original NGE as most as possible, however NGE story takes place in 26 chapters of 30 minutes each, and 2 movies, it will be hard to show a true more real version of NGE with just 2 hours of video. The opinnions of most fans is just that if this goes out too much of the canon story it will be really bad for NGE, though Gainax seems to have no problem with it taking place in New York and not Tokio...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: ZylonBane on April 16, 2006, 08:53:39 am
Quote
I'm not sure why exactly, but this paragraph makes me want to cockpunch you.

"Ignorance" probabily, the story and characters are fine, I am talking about the mechs specifically....this the response I would get from really young people, which falls into the "fan" category, they get so blind by a series that fail to realize certain obvious things...

No, now I'm certain it's because you're exactly the sort of pimply-face hentai-hoarding otaku who will go on and on and on and on with moronic, irrelevant comparisons of completely different fictional universes as if anyone besides yourself (and similarly pathetic people) gives a ****.

Jesus christ, just shut up already.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: TrashMan on April 16, 2006, 11:43:04 am
This is pointless...

For any vs. scenario one can have multiple reults, since there are no definite comparisons in power..

For instacne, I can say the SDF-1 would pawn everything - it's absolutely uber-massive, has hunderds of mecha, turrets and launchers at it's disposal, and let's not forget hte main gun and the defense field...

Of course, that's assuming the Main Gun can pierce an Eva AT field..

Or I can say that Escaflowne can pawn the SDF-1! How you ask? It simply teleports INSIDE, where all  it's firepower is sueless and trashes the generator, then bugs out.

Of course, there are allso a lot of assumptions here - there allways willl be when comparing different, not enough documented universes...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 16, 2006, 11:00:57 pm
Quote
No, now I'm certain it's because you're exactly the sort of pimply-face hentai-hoarding otaku who will go on and on and on and on with moronic, irrelevant comparisons of completely different fictional universes as if anyone besides yourself (and similarly pathetic people) gives a ****.

Jesus christ, just shut up already.

no, I don't even have a chapter of any anime series, I don't even know well their names, and I don't posses nothing to be defined as an Otaku, again your argument is random and senseless to define me, and the expression "anyone besides yourself" can be used for anyone and anything, I already said it, the mech's designer's care as they agree to give and sell the licenses, you can freely talk about me, but all series, like NGE and mech's weren't created spontaneously, it means a lot of work to their creators, at least have some respect to their creators if you at least respect NGE, though it is said that if you know what the word Otaku means you're half the way to it (not in my opinnion...)

I don't care for a comparison, as you shouln't really have cared for my post, everything started with this:

Quote
originally posted by ngtmr1:

I gave up on NGE when I found out an Eva could only run for about 5 minutes without an external power source. So, that was...years before I even saw an episode.

then, my post:

Quote
This is true, an Eva can even't fly and can't really match another robots specs from another series (except for the Eva 01 with wings), not only that but they aren't really mechanical, so they go more into "fantasy" section...

then yours ZylonBane:

Quote
Originally posted by ZylonBane:

I'm not sure why exactly, but this paragraph makes me want to cockpunch you.

If "anyone besides myself" care for a comparison, then why do you want to "cockpunch me", it doesn't affect you as you say, as I am the only who "I care" for it, so why...there must be something else that you have tell me that makes a vague explanation about why do you reacted that way to my opinnion...

I bet you were waiting for a "thank you" after that post, I can only say that I am sorry and I apologize, but it won't hurt anyone if you try to be kind, better than saying "Jesus christ, just shut up already.", but if it makes you happy to treat people like this, I won't post again here, some people needs that to be happy...

Quote
This is pointless...

It is, I have never the intention to go into a SR comparison...it was just an opinnion, everything started up there in those posts...

Please people focus in NGE, as this thread was meant to talk about it, I am truly sorry and apologyze to all of you, it's my complete fault for going off-thread (even if the mechs are related by SR and the license of their creators...)
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: BlackDove on April 18, 2006, 11:19:32 pm
you know that both she and the evas are basicly Shinji's mother, right?

adds a whole new layer of fuct don't it?

Been a while since I saw it, but IIRC Rei was a part of Lillin (sp? The **** downstairs in the basement, Adam was in Gendou's hand) - didn't have anything to do with Shinji's mother.

On the other hand, EVA 01 had a lot to do with his mother.

At any rate, Rei is more or less of a jailbait people's fantasy, then again so's Asuka.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mefustae on April 18, 2006, 11:23:37 pm
Been a while since I saw it, but IIRC Rei was a part of Lillin (sp? The **** downstairs in the basement, Adam was in Gendou's hand) - didn't have anything to do with Shinji's mother.

On the other hand, EVA 01 had a lot to do with his mother.

At any rate, Rei is more or less of a jailbait people's fantasy, then again so's Asuka.
If I remember correctly, I believe it was Lilith that was in the basement, while Humanity was referred to as the Lillen.

Also, I think the Evas all had a human soul in them, and inside Unit 01 was the soul of Shinji's mum.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 19, 2006, 12:17:21 am
Okay...I'll try to translate this:

Long ago God created the world. To populate it God created a man and a woman to his resemblance, they were Adam and Lilith (**), but Lilith and Adam relationship was very bad, always fightning, so one day God was angry for this, so God expelled Lilith for this, and enclose her in a isolated island.
God created Eva, and her and Adam relationship was good, but God put a trail for them (the forbidden apple) and as they didn't fulfil it, God expelled them from paradise.
Time later Adam feel guilty for the imprison of Lilith in that island, so he decided to go search for her to the Earth (in the era of dinosaurs), but why so bad luck that he collide against the Earth while he was landing and he made the 1st Impact.

(**) Lilith is from the original bible, but was removed for some reason (unknown to me)

Time later, Seele (a secret organization) found the "Manuscript of the Dead Sea", which explain the history of humanity, so they were for Lilith and captured her, after this they wanted to capture Adam which was aspleep in the North Pole...but humans don't only wanted to capture him, if not maniulate him and send him back to his embryonary state, with this the human race could forge it's own destiny.
But God don't like that human disobey about their ownr destiny, and they God punished them by provoke the anger of Adam, which spreads all of his energy into the Earth, producing the 2nd Impact.

As God see that human race wasn't disposed to change, God's second punishement was to empty the room of Gauf, a room which contains all of the human's souls (***), for so every child who was born after that date (or time) woulnd't have a soul.

(***) In Judaism, the number of souls is not infinite, so between time to time God refill it again

That means that neither Shinji or Asuka posses a soul, the only exception is Rei Ayanami, as the human race won't have souls, humans decided to create one, and they implant it to Rei, which is the only vessel with a soul that haves only 14 years. That's why the Evas need to have a Soul, to complete the one imcomplete souls of the pilots

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I translated this from one of my sources (it may have some errors), this is just a fragment at that takes place on the beginning of NGE, I can post all of if someone (or "anyone besides me") is interested...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Ulala on April 19, 2006, 05:05:55 am
*shrugs* I just watched the end of.. movie (I had seen the series, but never bothered watching the end), and maybe I'm just not cultured enough or something, but all I have to say about it is:  :wtf:
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mefustae on April 19, 2006, 05:16:23 am
True. But, you've got to admit, it's damned cool right up until Seele initiates 3rd Impact.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: butter_pat_head on April 19, 2006, 01:04:05 pm
As God see that human race wasn't disposed to change, God's second punishement was to empty the room of Gauf, a room which contains all of the human's souls (***), for so every child who was born after that date (or time) woulnd't have a soul.

(***) In Judaism, the number of souls is not infinite, so between time to time God refill it again

That means that neither Shinji or Asuka posses a soul, the only exception is Rei Ayanami, as the human race won't have souls, humans decided to create one, and they implant it to Rei, which is the only vessel with a soul that haves only 14 years. That's why the Evas need to have a Soul, to complete the one imcomplete souls of the pilots

Shinji and Asuka must have souls because the point of the Instrumentality project is to crush all souls together into one, and if Shinji and Asuka didn't have souls to begin with then eps25-26 and the second half of EoE would be even more odd then they already are.

While not AFAIK officially confirmed (we only have what happens in EoE to realy confirm this) , it is popular belief that Rei has the soul of Lillith but she has been made in the image of Shinji's mother, Yui.

While it is common knowledge that in NGE humanity is the spawn of Lillith, some people have suggested that the Angels are the spawn of Adam.

However I am open to other interpretations and would like to hear more from your source, Shadow0000.

Enjoy:
(http://www.jcomcp.plus.com/gendobrokemyinternet.jpg)
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Kamikaze on April 20, 2006, 12:06:31 am
Now, I'm not saying that all anime is bad or with 2D characters (Macross, the original Gundam, Ghost in the Shell, Evanglion, etc), but a lot of them are.

Are you sure you watched the same Macross I did? The characters in Macross were horrifically uninteresting and, as you say, 2 dimensional. This is particularly true in the movie version, where character development was thrown out an airlock into vacuum.

I'm not sure where your claims about modern anime trends comes from either. Most psycho-trippy anime that people mention are pretty old (e.g. Lain and Eva). Most of the notable anime of the past few years have had more solid footing. For example, look at animenfo's Top 200 (http://www.animenfo.com/statistic/top.php?type=anime) list and check anime from the past few years. I don't see any of the convoluted and ridiculous storylines you talk about there.

Anyway, why do you even care? Just watch what's good. There are plenty of anime that are not pointless and boring like Evangelion. A new season of anime just started up in Japan and there are maybe 3 or 4 series that are really worth watching (e.g. Ouran High School Host Club (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouran_High_School_Host_Club), The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Melancholy_of_Suzumiya_Haruhi), and Ergo Proxy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergo_Proxy)), but that should be plenty.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 20, 2006, 12:42:32 am
I honestly can't stand a lot of the pretentious "theology" that's in Evangelion.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mefustae on April 20, 2006, 12:47:27 am
I honestly can't stand a lot of the pretentious "theology" that's in Evangelion.
See, I usually don't trust people who refer to art as "pretentious", because "pretentious" is all too often a term employed by embitterred anti-intellectuals, and actually means "went over my head because I don't like art that doesn't fit my child-like parameters".
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 20, 2006, 12:56:52 am
Evangelion takes the bare framework of Judeo-Christian mythos and a bit of psychology and places it within an anime. It overlooks most of the deeper questions within both the psychology and mythos it builds upon.  Honestly, it's nowhere near as deep a piece as is often claimed.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Descenterace on April 20, 2006, 01:17:01 am
I honestly can't stand a lot of the pretentious "theology" that's in Evangelion.
See, I usually don't trust people who refer to art as "pretentious", because "pretentious" is all too often a term employed by embitterred anti-intellectuals, and actually means "went over my head because I don't like art that doesn't fit my child-like parameters".

PWNED

It's fiction, dammit. If you don't like it, don't watch it.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: redsniper on April 20, 2006, 01:20:32 am
:eek: I watched End of Evangelion...

Giant Rei scares the bejeezus out of me. Asuka's owning session was "pure, badass, awesome coolness."™ When I first started watching the show, I thought Shinji and Rei might get together but not like that (that is to say, some crazy, sea of LCL, mental, psycho... stuff).
Although I like the first half where things are still 'normal', I prefer the trippy last two episodes to the trippy second half of the movie. Somehow the whole thing seemed 'off' to me; it just didn't feel the same as the show, almost like it was forced or overdone. Everyone pronounced Eva wrong. I didn't get to see Unit 01 fight :(. Shinji was more of a pansy than usual. And did everyone get put back on Earth, or are Shinji and Asuka the only ones left?
Excuse the dubious coherency of this post as giving the movie any great thought makes my brain hurt.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Ulala on April 20, 2006, 02:26:01 am
I don't understand the last line of the movie: "That's disgusting" or something..? Someone clarify for me?  :)
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: TrashMan on April 20, 2006, 03:41:54 am
Evangelion takes the bare framework of Judeo-Christian mythos and a bit of psychology and places it within an anime. It overlooks most of the deeper questions within both the psychology and mythos it builds upon.  Honestly, it's nowhere near as deep a piece as is often claimed.

Honestly, reading the whole Evangelion stroy it reminds me more and more of Scientology - basicly, a load of psycho bull****...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mefustae on April 20, 2006, 03:44:30 am
Asuka's owning session was "pure, badass, awesome coolness."™
And how...

(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/113/capture3sm.jpg)
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: ZylonBane on April 20, 2006, 10:40:33 am
See, I usually don't trust people who refer to art as "pretentious", because "pretentious" is all too often a term employed by embitterred anti-intellectuals, and actually means "went over my head because I don't like art that doesn't fit my child-like parameters".
But we musn't forget that 99% of "performance art" is in fact pretentious. And anything described as an "installation" is highly suspect as well.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Janos on April 20, 2006, 11:47:26 am
I don't understand the last line of the movie: "That's disgusting" or something..? Someone clarify for me?  :)

It's actually something along the lines of "I am unwell" and that particular translation error (if you watched the AmeriKKKan engrish version) is somehow important but I have no idea what.

Shinji just needs someone to screw.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mr. Vega on April 20, 2006, 04:31:43 pm
Quote
Honestly, reading the whole Evangelion story it reminds me more and more of Scientology - basicly, a load of psycho bull****...

You know what? To hell with you all. You guys are so obsessed with controversy that I wonder whether you have actual personal opinions on things. Who the **** cares if fanboys think it's the best thing ever? Get over it. Is it good or bad, how about asking that?

The fact is, once you get past the meaningless (though beautiful) biblical imagery and the mediocre mecha battles, evangelion actually does say something about human suffering. It's hard to recognize, especially since it suffers from what I shall now officially term Naruto Syndrome (when an anime is criticized as crap, for the sake of being criticized as crap simply because it's popular, when in fact it may actually be very well done), but it's there.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: neo_hermes on April 20, 2006, 05:24:07 pm
*Neohermes Brain Melts* :D
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: TrashMan on April 20, 2006, 06:20:07 pm
Quote
Honestly, reading the whole Evangelion story it reminds me more and more of Scientology - basicly, a load of psycho bull****...

You know what? To hell with you all. You guys are so obsessed with controversy that I wonder whether you have actual personal opinions on things. Who the **** cares if fanboys think it's the best thing ever? Get over it. Is it good or bad, how about asking that?

The fact is, once you get past the meaningless (though beautiful) biblical imagery and the mediocre mecha battles, evangelion actually does say something about human suffering. It's hard to recognize, especially since it suffers from what I shall now officially term Naruto Syndrome (when an anime is criticized as crap, for the sake of being criticized as crap simply because it's popular, when in fact it may actually be very well done), but it's there.

Ehm...and to think that I like Evangelion probably more than most of the posters on this thread...
Did you perhaps hit the wrong "quote" button?

Animation is good, humor is good, battels are good, maby it even has some hidden meaning that is good, but let's fact it - the story sucks.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Getter Robo G on April 20, 2006, 06:30:22 pm
After reading this entire thread...  :wtf:

Eva 101:

  Eva units are biological lifeforms created by genetic engineering (from Adam's cells, they admit it). they posess a myrid of powers I won't get into... Except to say the AT Field is related to the strength of one's "soul"...

   Now afer the Eva is "Grown" it is cyberized and encased in "Armor" which is actually the restraint system turning it into a marionette (How would you like it if someone strapped your arms and legs on a taller person???)

  All the mechanincal crap is for the PILOT and control of the Eva. It can move on it's own as a living being.. The POWER SOUCE BATTERY lasts 15 minutes when interruptd by failure or disconncted from power line (which are located all over the city if neded. Inone episode you see the Evas re-connecting near an armory to get a better position on an ambush).
 
When the "accident" (Never specified) happened, Shinji's Mom Yuri ws killed and her soul trapped in the 01 Eva. Gendo takes DNA from Adam and Yuri and makes Lillith/Rei 1.  Rei 1 preteen is killed by Ritsuko's mom after Gendo fails to teach her restraint and she teased the "old hag" Gendo may or may not be banging her...

Qith Rei II, Gendo is more stand-offish with this clone and yet there is still sexual tension/control obvious with this one as both man and boy fight for her affection.

Shinji gets aroused watching Rei's ass as she scrubs a floor and embarreses her when he then tells her she "reminds him of his mom". Definate incest overtones there, of course he has no idea the girl he's hot for is a partial CLONE of his MOMMY!... Aw so cute...

Anyway skipping all the other metaphysicl crap, it's a decent series and enjoyable combat.

Fast forward to the end (sorry if spoiler) Best scene in the whole friggen series is when shinji gets his "revenge" on Asuka...  This is the only series, non-hentai, I ever saw the hero do a Bukakke! Go Shinji give it to that *****! (she so deserved it!)


In the english version it goes SOMETHING like this: So don't sue me if it's wrong.

Shinji is on top and strangling Asuka and about to cllapse.

Aska: "I hate you" as she careses his face.

Shinji:  "I feel sick".

It then ends with destruction and a sea of LCL around them and has a real Adam& Eve feel to it. The implication is that they ned to reseed Humanity...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 21, 2006, 01:06:40 am
Okay, everyone calm down and don't take this seriously, either you will go berserker (like me) or just melt your brain, just try to be comprensive and reasonable, and be open to others interpretations (as butter_pat_head
 is). This will be long, so take read with patience, I'll continue since I left:

...Rei was the only human with a soul and the Eva 00 worked with the Dummy Plug, an artifact which emulates a soul, so both the Eva 00 and Rei have identical souls. The other Eva that never has a soul was the Eva 03 (Toji's Eva, the black one), however they (NERV?) also wanted to use the Dummy Plug in it so the pilot would be able to command it.
Going backwards in the history, the case is that God started sending one by one the "Angels" (named an "apostle" in the original Japanese version, anyway it refers to the sons of Adam), the contact between one of his sons and it's father (Adam and and any Angel), would start the 3rd Impact instantaneouly. But what the Angels didn't know if that Adam isn't not in NERV basement, but Lilith is...

For example Kaworu Nawisa (**), goes in search of Adam, he realizes that is Lilith and he ask himself why there is to annihilate all of them. To refresh the memory, Kaworu reachs there thanks to the Angel Lilim (the Production Model: Eva 02 / Asuka's Eva), Lilim is made by humans for combat, so it is the best fitted to represent humanity (said in another way, Lilim is the human race):

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/Shadow0000/Kaworu.jpg)

Kaworu Nawisa, also know as the Angel 17º named Tabris:

Some Magazines said that he is Jesus, and that his mission is to give choices to humanity, as he is known as "The Angel of Free Will", one of the reasons that he has to not continue fightning is because he fail in his try of find Adam, so he decide to surrender and give pass to humanity, this is arguible (I bet many of you wondered why he almost suicided)

The only Angel that really knows were Adam is and goes for him, is the most powerful of all (surely is), the Angel 14º Zeruel (***), this one entered NERV really easy (compared to the others), and as you may remember it stopped in front of the supercomputer MAGI which control NERV and it's scientists, included Gendou Ikari, and try to kill them...the question is why do it tries to kill them, that's not at all the Angel mission, human annihilation may be a collateral damage...
The reason is simple Gendou ordered Kaji to bring him the Adam's Embryon, Gendou implant it in his hand and so he could unleash the 3rd Impact, so he and his wife (Yui) could become Gods. That means that Zeruel wanted to touch Gendou right hand and unleash the 3rd Impact not controlated by humans.

(***)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/Shadow0000/Zeruel.jpg)

After the series finish (Episode 26), Seele sees Gendou's true intentions and decide to take NERV control using the force...attacking MAGI, later NERV with infantry, and finally Evas to destroy Evas (fire to kill fire). Even so, Gendou tries to continue it's scheme of human complemention, which was supposed to be realized in the next way:
Join his hand to Adam to the soul of Rei once there is no ATF, once in unison Rei would become Lilith (as Rei is a clone between Lilith and Yui), and so Lilith would unificate with the Eva 01 and that would unleash the 3rd Impact, however what happened was the next :
Gendou tries to unite to Rei, but when he put his hand inside of her (without an ATF), she takes the entire of Gendou and Adam's Embryon, so Rei now with the Embryon of Adam was able to unite with Lilith and with the Eva 01 which ended becoming the soul of Yui, Gendou's Wife and resident soul of the Eva 01, and so a new god (not physic), Shinji (the son of Gendou and Yui, pilot of the Eva 01) is now the chosen to decide the faith of human race, that means if he will fulfill the "Proyect of Human Complementation" (where the or a human ascend to Gods, I believe) or everything will start over again...So the souls could keep floathin in the void or just return to the Gouf Room, where they would be called again and returned to Earth...

Then the Final comes and is one of the most complex moments, when we see Shinji and Asuka and Rei's phantom (or soul) just floating everywhere...well, most people say that Shinji becomed Adam and Asuka was Eva...this has a solid argument in the chapter Asuka attack NATO (OTAN, in other languages) and SEELE says: "Eva is giving troubles again", but they don't refer to Asuka, they referred to the Evangelion, this is so weird that the Author (Anno Hideaki) needed to make a conference in order to clear this matter, again other point that is not seen in the series...
And so on the End of Evangelion is the start, Shinji as Adam, Asuka as Lilith (yes you heard it), and Rei as Eva...the explanation is easy, Adam and Lilith relationship was very bad, as Shinji and Asuka was, while the opposite Adam and Eva relationship was good, as Shinji and Rei was, as Shinji and Rei were in love, though they never say it honestly, just in case Rei mention it in the EoE....
So Shinji (Adam) needs to kill Asuka (Lilith), in order to give place Rei (Eva) to enter as you remember he grabs her by the neck and goes berserker, but Asuka reaction is so cold that he start to think about and he don't kill her....

Opinnion from the original source:
Until this point everything could be possible, but the logic would be that he kills her in order to be able to let Eva join the paradise with him, and everything start again.

------------------------------------------

My oppinnion:

A - Adam (Shinji) goes searching for Lilith (Asuka). I bet this means that Eva remained alone and was abandonded in the paradise, it won't surprise me if she ended making the 3rd Impact because she was really pissed by Adam

B - It seems that the "logic" that is named above, refers to God's destiny, as it was meant to happen, by the counterpart, if Shinji makes his choice and don't kill Asuka (Lilith), that means he was able to decide by himself (and  so he frees from the destiny that god have prepared, or just God's will), and if he wanted to remain with Lilith it would be so, and not as God wanted...

C - He goes searching for Lilith, I bet this mean that he somewhat realizes that he love, or at least she wanted her for a very good reason.

I mean they fight a lot, but that doesn't mean that they weren't in love...., God didn't wanted Lilith, but wath was what Adam wanted ?, after all why he goes searching for her if there wasn't anything special?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

What is really left to understand missing points here:

1 - The Red Cross Book (the ordered seended to Japan, Neo-Tokyo-2
2 - The Longinus Lance (there is no special meant to the series, just what appers in religion), the question is why Lilith has it attached to it's chest...aside from this, this is the true proof that an Angel/Eva and an AT field can be damaged or destroyed by something without neither an ATF or a soul, and even better, something as a Mass produced weapon is...
3 - The bad time that Anno's Hideaki suffered while making NGE (yeah it's necessay specially for NGE)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Some quotes, though this has been answered already above :

Quote
While not AFAIK officially confirmed (we only have what happens in EoE to realy confirm this) , it is popular belief that Rei has the soul of Lillith but she has been made in the image of Shinji's mother, Yui.

She is supposed to be a clon between Lilith and Yui, that's why Gendou was so...well she take care of herself as if they were really close, and as he wasn't close to Lilith of course, Yui was what was left...

Quote
While it is common knowledge that in NGE humanity is the spawn of Lillith, some people have suggested that the Angels are the spawn of Adam.

The Angels in NGE are named like the sons of Adam, and in the Japanese version they were referenced as "Apostles", but they meant the same...otherwise the is no real reason to cause an Impact when both enter in physic contact.

Yes it is confirmed, humanity spawn from Lilith the 2nd Angel, humanity so are named the "Lilim", however as Adam is the 1st Angel, and somewhat she is the spwan of Adam as the other Angels are, it's cosidered that the humanity somewhat is also considere partially the spawn of Adam...

Quote
Animation is good, humor is good, battels are good, maby it even has some hidden meaning that is good, but let's fact it - the story sucks.

The combination of humor and battles is something which makes it different from any other mech series, if you see Gundam W or most Gundam series there isn't nothing of humor, this is not to blame, most people just see a mech series like Gundam and makes a vague an and partial description as "two robots fighting, end of the series", while Gundam just tries to reflect war among all of it's series, and maybe it does too much, Macross somewhat takes more a romantic point of view for example....
One of the reasons I could never finish to see Escaflowne was specially that it lacked of humor of any means, I mean, well maybe in that alternate universe it didn't exist, but after a few episodes I was ready to enter in hibernation state...I didn't really see the rest of the series, so...my opinnion just apply to this brief start I see.
But yes, I like more combination of situations and emotions, than just fight, fight, fight, war, war, there are some other mech's series which are like NGE and combine episodes and situations which are quite opposite frequentely....
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mefustae on April 21, 2006, 06:15:52 am
The only Angel that really knows were Adam is and goes for him, is the most powerful of all (surely is), the Angel 14º Zeruel (***), this one entered NERV really easy (compared to the others), and as you may remember it stopped in front of the supercomputer MAGI which control NERV and it's scientists, included Gendou Ikari, and try to kill them...the question is why do it tries to kill them, that's not at all the Angel mission, human annihilation may be a collateral damage...
The reason is simple Gendou ordered Kaji to bring him the Adam's Embryon, Gendou implant it in his hand and so he could unleash the 3rd Impact, so he and his wife (Yui) could become Gods. That means that Zeruel wanted to touch Gendou right hand and unleash the 3rd Impact not controlated by humans.
Actually, if I remember correctly, when the Angel comes barging through the Holographic Display thingy and stops in front of the Magi systems, powering up it's main weapon, Gendou wasn't actually there, he was in the Cage with Unit 01. I believe he left about 5 minutes before to assist in getting the dummy-plug operational in Unit 01, which wouldn't accept it. So, Zeruel was only going to kill the command staff in the attack you mentioned.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 21, 2006, 08:28:35 pm
I actually don't really remember it too well, but what I believe the author of that review means is that he could have ignored them and go direct for it's objective, I mean the scientients were harmless to Zeruel, so there was no reason to just destroy everything...Anyways I don't really like trying to understand Evangelion is worth, it would be almost like tryring to understand the creator (Anno Hideaki), and even his psychoanalyst must have passed serious troubles to make that possible (if he succeded in that)

Aside all that happen in NGE, humanity never have it's free will, it's either God's, Adam's, Lilith's or the Angels's that decide for the fate of everyone, or coorporations like SEELE or NERV, and if that isn't worst enough, then comes Shinji, and everybody get the idea "humanity is already doomed in his hands", if we would have to make a votation on which character you would want to hit, I bet most people would name Shinji...he really lacks of...well "everything"...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: TrashMan on April 22, 2006, 06:18:02 pm

Quote
Animation is good, humor is good, battels are good, maby it even has some hidden meaning that is good, but let's fact it - the story sucks.

The combination of humor and battles is something which makes it different from any other mech series, if you see Gundam W or most Gundam series there isn't nothing of humor, this is not to blame, most people just see a mech series like Gundam and makes a vague an and partial description as "two robots fighting, end of the series", while Gundam just tries to reflect war among all of it's series, and maybe it does too much, Macross somewhat takes more a romantic point of view for example....
One of the reasons I could never finish to see Escaflowne was specially that it lacked of humor of any means, I mean, well maybe in that alternate universe it didn't exist, but after a few episodes I was ready to enter in hibernation state...I didn't really see the rest of the series, so...my opinnion just apply to this brief start I see.
But yes, I like more combination of situations and emotions, than just fight, fight, fight, war, war, there are some other mech's series which are like NGE and combine episodes and situations which are quite opposite frequentely....

Ye, Macross does have a more romantic feel to it..
Escaflowne is more serious in that regard and you really should watch it. the best anime IMHO...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 22, 2006, 11:37:26 pm
Quote
Escaflowne is more serious in that regard and you really should watch it. the best anime IMHO...

I know, and I want to see it, the problem was that almost a week before it was starting to be broadcasted in my country, everyone started to hype it like NGE, and my judgement over the series was already too distorted to enjoy or understand the series, so I choose to let time pass and calm down before see it (it's a shame that now no one broadcast it).

Regarding your question of the Escaflowne, I think it was never introduced to SR, at least I haven't see it, the point is that even if it can teletransport it would never know where the generator is located in a ship about 1100 meters long, and even if so it may depend on it's internal structure which is mostly unknown, the Macross is considered as a base (mother ship) more than a mech, that means every ship that it transport is considered as a extra unit.

-----------------------------------

Some info regarding Anno Hideaki (NGE's creator), it maybe a little long, but believe me it's a summary:

Quote
1 - The creator/director, Hideaki Anno, suffered from a long period of depression prior to creating Evangelion; much of the show is based on his own experiences in dealing with depression and in psychoanalytic theory he learned from his psychotherapy. As a result, characters in the anime display a variety of mood disorders and problems with emotional health, especially depression, trauma, and separation anxiety disorder.

2 - Different endings:

Quote
After the ending of the TV series, Gainax and Hideaki Anno received numerous letters and emails from fans, both congratulating and criticizing the last two episodes. Among these were death threats and letters of disappointment from fans who thought Anno had ruined the series for them. Prompted by these responses, Gainax launched the project to create a movie with a "proper" ending for the series in 1997. Due to scheduling difficulties, they released Death and Rebirth consisting of a character-based recap of the entire series (Death) and half of the "proper" ending to Evangelion (Rebirth). The project was completed later in the year, and contained the complete section of Rebirth, i.e. End of Evangelion(...)
(...)Despite the success of End of Evangelion, its ending was considered controversial by many fans. Some believe that it was a manifestation of Anno's frustrations with the fan culture that attacked his original ending, and used End of Evangelion as revenge against those. Others have argued that Anno intended End of Evangelion to be the proper climax all along but that he was unable to show it because of budget restraint and television content laws. One other theory that is not commonly talked about is it was to supplement the last two episodes; some believe the last two episodes occur in Shinji’s mind, while the movie showed the events occurring to the world. Many have come to the conclusion that it will be up to the viewer to decide the finale, as everyone has different interpretations.(...)
(...)On the other hand there is some evidence that Anno's frustrations began earlier than End of Evangelion, and that this film was the culmination of a growing anger as evidenced by the sudden shift in tone around episode 16. (It is also worth noting here that in this episode the Angels were going to speak to Shinji, but the creative team dropped this in favor of a more original concept in which the Angel shows Shinji various images within his mind, while he 'talks' to himself.) Several sources (interview with Kazuya Tsurumaki, interview with Hiroki Azuma) seem to indicate that although Evangelion was sketchily pre-planned, the story details were open to alteration, possibly for the purpose of adapting to audience demands or more likely (regarding Anno's tastes and fights with sponsors) free directorial decision making. The shift in tone and style corresponded with a shift in Anno's worldview that would lead him to abandon the "otaku lifestyle" and temporarily leave anime for live action film making. He made his live-action debut with "Love and Pop" in 1998 (posters were designed by longtime collaborator Yoshiyuki Sadamoto), then went back to animation with the 26-episode "His and Her Circumstances", then made the live-action "Shiki-Jistu" in 2001 (which used brief pieces of animation in key scenes), and was uninvolved with animation until his participation in supervising (but not directing) the 2004 Cutey Honey OAV Project.

"death threats", why do some fans never cease to amaze me ? (this is not the worse thing that happened regarding NGE, it was much worse than this...if I could just find the article now...)

If I would have to look back, and choose which anime series is the one who really leaves me with less knowledge of all, I would choose NGE...barely all that you may learn from it, just applies to it and not anything more, not even a similar series...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Bobboau on April 23, 2006, 12:33:25 am
"If I would have to look back, and choose which anime series is the one who really leaves me with less knowledge of all, I would choose NGE"

Evangelion: the anime that leaves you srupider than it found you.
:lol:
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 23, 2006, 01:15:20 am
Quote
Evangelion: the anime that leaves you srupider than it found you.

Oh no, what I was trying to write?, proof that it's starting to make effect on me. :lol:. Mech series don't find me, I am not lucky enough, so I am always searching them...
Well knowledge can lead human race to salvation and destruction, at some point specific "knowledge" will lead some humans to take stupid actions. What I try to say (and failed) is that the knowledge that NGE could give any spectator is worthless for anything else (useless for anything besides NGE)...

Maybe I should have wrote "...and which anime series is the one which leaves me with useless knowledge, I would choose NGE..."

--------------------------------------------

Here is that article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroyuki_Tsuchida

I don't want to make a joke of this (no one wants), but it is true NGE is so weird and gives so little info or knowledge that just some people go berserker, and after that they reach the limit point of human stupidity...in some cases is just people fighting, in some other are "dead threats", and in this case was a tragedy.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Bobboau on April 23, 2006, 01:54:09 am
makes me think of a funny situation I can visualise with a frend of mine:

frend:Bahka!
me:...Otaku
frend:...wha...what did you just call me?
me:otaku.
frend::mad: your pronounceing it wrong! there is no hard vowel sound in Ja/*cut off*/
me:I rest my case.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: TrashMan on April 23, 2006, 10:16:50 am
I seen al lthe series episodes, but still wan't clear with the Evangelion storyline..


After reading the last few posts things have become clearer.

I now officially want to change my oppinion - Scientology actually might have a better story than this!
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Unknown Target on April 23, 2006, 11:48:08 am
After reading this entire thread...  :wtf:

*snipped for great justice*


What. The. ****. That is the most messed up bull**** I have ever heard.


Quote
Fast forward to the end (sorry if spoiler) Best scene in the whole friggen series is when shinji gets his "revenge" on Asuka...  This is the only series, non-hentai, I ever saw the hero do a Bukakke! Go Shinji give it to that *****! (she so deserved it!)


In the english version it goes SOMETHING like this: So don't sue me if it's wrong.

Shinji is on top and strangling Asuka and about to cllapse.

Aska: "I hate you" as she careses his face.

Shinji:  "I feel sick".

It then ends with destruction and a sea of LCL around them and has a real Adam& Eve feel to it. The implication is that they ned to reseed Humanity...


Double :wtf:. That's just....what the hell?
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mr. Vega on April 23, 2006, 12:54:27 pm
Escaflowne is more serious in that regard and you really should watch it. the best anime IMHO...

Bah! Trigun deserves that title...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Unknown Target on April 23, 2006, 04:46:59 pm
No way, Macross FTW!
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 23, 2006, 11:54:56 pm
Quote
I seen al lthe series episodes, but still wan't clear with the Evangelion storyline..


After reading the last few posts things have become clearer.

I now officially want to change my oppinion - Scientology actually might have a better story than this!

:lol:

----------------------------------------

Quote
Fast forward to the end (sorry if spoiler) Best scene in the whole friggen series is when shinji gets his "revenge" on Asuka...  This is the only series, non-hentai, I ever saw the hero do a Bukakke! Go Shinji give it to that *****! (she so deserved it!)


In the english version it goes SOMETHING like this: So don't sue me if it's wrong.

Shinji is on top and strangling Asuka and about to cllapse.

Aska: "I hate you" as she careses his face.

Shinji:  "I feel sick".

It then ends with destruction and a sea of LCL around them and has a real Adam& Eve feel to it. The implication is that they ned to reseed Humanity...

No, it's not that, it's (near the end):

Asuka (time - 1:28:17): What a disguting feeling...

I think she means "pity", supposedly Adam goes searching for Lilith because he feel sorry for her imprison in the Earth, basically he feels pity towards her...and that's one of the worse feelings you can have towards other people (if it is not the worst)

She never talks when she careses him, I have the japanese (subtitled) version of EoE. NGE is so distorted that people should be able to see that it has become a commercial mark, it's like if someone refuses to believe "no!!!, Yu-Gi-Oh! is not commercial, liar, I don't hear you, liar, bahka (start to cry, and then run)"...I wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow I discover they produce sanitary paper with that name...

And here is when both talk as Adam and Lilith viewpoints:

Shinji (time - 1:05:13): I want to help you, and I want to be with you forever.

Asuka (time - 1:05:14): Then don't do anything. Don't come to my side anymore. You will only hurt me.

Maybe there is some details that just appear in the NGE Manga ?. Usually most anime series were really distorted when they make the audio/video version, there are details that are removed or changed just because they want to, or just for taking more profit from it...

If someone remember the review I posted above, it said that the fans known that in Episode 16 the Angel was supposed to talk with Shinji, however, it start showing him images due to special issues (money!!!), maybe they get this info from the Manga, until they got some kind of mind reader machine I can't think of another way why they know...

-----------------------------------------

What I can't understand, is the plot, specially in EoE near the end, it's a s**t, see why:

Towards the EoE, all humans (or souls ?) become one, there are no humans left except from Shinji or Asuka, leaving aside, the fact of why do the rest of the people without souls were supposed to unite ? (Shinji and Asuka don't have souls and they didn't really unify with the others)...the life in Earth is still standing, it the worst case humans would have dissapeared from the face of the whole earth, but the point life, all other non-human species are still there, so is that supposed to be tragic at all?

The Labyrinth of plot and mysteries, and other mysteries which basic function is to explain early mysteries, here you have an "uncertain" fact explained with another "uncertain" fact, what' sure about that is nothing, you can argue to death because it lack of a true explantion and the interpretations will always vary from different people...well anyways you pass over all that psychology stress trying to understand and searching for something pointless, a valid and true NGE plot explanation, and in the end we get to see that all the tragedy was just human's extinction, not life's extinction, but for some reason EoE hides this, is like human is no more, everything is silent...it's the end of universe...

The point is, do it was necessary all that to just get that end ?, just some average quality plot with a meteor collision with the earth would have caused much more damage to the earth, and all the life in it, so I fail to see where is the so tragic, so apocalyptic as NGE is claimed...maybe it is, but not that much, a meteor would be really terrible and the fact that NGE EoE is unbelievable unrealistic, while a meteor collision is something that might happen someday...

-----------------------------------------

My opinnion is that no one can't really rate which series is the "best" specifically, maybe in a liberal and overall way, until at least you have see all of the series of that genre. I can just compare over the series I see, but telling something like "is the best series in all the universe" would be inadequate, if you look I would be rating in one small sentence all the series, not to talk about the lack of arguments, it doesn't seem fair at all. A different case would be to choose which one I like more, but I can't...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mefustae on April 24, 2006, 12:28:58 am
No, it's not that, it's (near the end):

Asuka (time - 1:28:17): What a disguting feeling...

I think she means "pity", supposedly Adam goes searching for Lilith because he feel sorry for her imprison in the Earth, basically he feels pity towards her...and that's one of the worse feelings you can have towards other people (if it is not the worst)
Nah. Think about it from Asuka's perspective; she lost synchronisation with Unit 02 and her life effectively lost all meaning, and she attempted to commit suicide. She then falls into a coma, and the next thing she knows, she's inside Unit 02 under attack by the JSSDF, which she summarily annihilates. She then takes on the Eva Mass-Production Series, takes them out, only to be impaled through the eye [due to the heightened Sync Ratio, she'd feel it as if it were happening to her], have them reactivate and eviscerate her, and subsequently impale Unit 02 [and her] with 8 spikes. The, she reawakens beside the Sea of LCL [I believe there is a running theory that at this point she is in fact an amalgum of Asuka, Rei and Misato] to the sight of Shinji choking her... that is one hell of a bad month.

I think "What a disgusting feeling" is rather appropriate given the circumstances.

What I can't understand, is the plot, specially in EoE near the end, it's a s**t, see why:

Towards the EoE, all humans (or souls ?) become one, there are no humans left except from Shinji or Asuka, leaving aside, the fact of why do the rest of the people without souls were supposed to unite ? (Shinji and Asuka don't have souls and they didn't really unify with the others)...the life in Earth is still standing, it the worst case humans would have dissapeared from the face of the whole earth, but the point life, all other non-human species are still there, so is that supposed to be tragic at all?

You're right in the fact that all Humans were united, but you've still got the idea a little wrong. The Human Instrementality Project was designed to artificially advance Humanity to the next stage of evolution, to dissolve every Human's AT Field - which kept any given individual isolated and lonely from every other individual - and unit everything into what ends up as the Sea of LCL [in a nutshell]. This occured, only at the last minute Shinji stopped it, choosing individuality, and thus the Egg of Lilith burst, and Shinji was not liquified. As the Human Instrumentality Project failed, Humanity is now free to become individuals once more, if they can muster the will-power to seperate themselves, so Humanity is not extinct, we're just in a different form. Asuka was somehow able to do this instantly, and thus she appears next to Shinji when he awakens, or else she's an amalgum of the three women in Shinji's life as I stated earlier... i'm sort of going off several hours of reading from several locations, not to mention the theories and ideas of a couple dozen people, so bare with me.

The point is, do it was necessary all that to just get that end ?, just some average quality plot with a meteor collision with the earth would have caused much more damage to the earth, and all the life in it, so I fail to see where is the so tragic, so apocalyptic as NGE is claimed...maybe it is, but not that much, a meteor would be really terrible and the fact that NGE EoE is unbelievable unrealistic, while a meteor collision is something that might happen someday...
It's funny you bring up the Meteor thing. Remember, the Meteor was not only a cover story for Second Impact, but it was a bad cover-up story. According to a screencap of a textbook in one of the episodes, they claimed that a Meteor about 4 inches in diametre smashed into the Antarctic at 95% C [the Speed of Light]. Those scientifical peoples around here will be able to tell you that that meteor in the coverstory was both way too small and going way too fast for it to be plausable.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 24, 2006, 01:18:00 am
Quote
You're right in the fact that all Humans were united, but you've still got the idea a little wrong. The Human Instrementality Project was designed to artificially advance Humanity to the next stage of evolution, to dissolve every Human's AT Field - which kept any given individual isolated and lonely from every other individual - and unit everything into what ends up as the Sea of LCL [in a nutshell]. This occured, only at the last minute Shinji stopped it, choosing individuality, and thus the Egg of Lilith burst, and Shinji was not liquified. As the Human Instrumentality Project failed, Humanity is now free to become individuals once more, if they can muster the will-power to seperate themselves, so Humanity is not extinct, we're just in a different form. Asuka was somehow able to do this instantly, and thus she appears next to Shinji when he awakens, or else she's an amalgum of the three women in Shinji's life as I stated earlier... i'm sort of going off several hours of reading from several locations, not to mention the theories and ideas of a couple dozen people, so bare with me.

Yes, I remember the Black Moon (Lilith's Egg), it's not me, the reviews in overall claim it as an apocalyptic plot specially in EoE, but EoE tries to give the impreson Earth is Isolated after the Human Instrementality Project is almost completed...I do not not really know, what I am sure is that it was Gendou and SEELE will, but the others seems to be fighting until the end, even when they could have surrender and just let the same event happen...

I was carried away by XenoGears's Human Instrumentality Project, were humans were forced to sadistically become god, well they indeed become...but the point is that they didn't have choice, because they where forced by the will of the most powerful ones...again seems like XG shares a lot of things with NGE, however it explains every single detail towards the end, and that's the main difference between them...you can be sure of what you talk about XG, while NGE is a mess...

Quote
It's funny you bring up the Meteor thing. Remember, the Meteor was not only a cover story for Second Impact, but it was a bad cover-up story. According to a screencap of a textbook in one of the episodes, they claimed that a Meteor about 4 inches in diametre smashed into the Antarctic at 95% C [the Speed of Light]. Those scientifical peoples around here will be able to tell you that that meteor in the coverstory was both way too small and going way too fast for it to be plausable.

I wasn't talking about any of NGE Impacts, I was just making an example, of what a more apocalyptic plot would be...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Getter Robo G on April 24, 2006, 01:41:22 am
You're right and wrong. a lot of things were edited for the English version (the series I bought) so your time codes (while thoughtful) are useless to us...

That is how the version I have ends. I have no illusions that the Japansese version is different.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mefustae on April 24, 2006, 02:13:07 am
I wasn't talking about any of NGE Impacts, I was just making an example, of what a more apocalyptic plot would be...
Right, misread that passage, I was in a hurry to finish that post as I was already 5 minutes late for a lecture... :rolleyes:
Title: Look what I found...
Post by: redsniper on April 24, 2006, 06:18:35 pm
Screw the movie. I've found a fanfic that, so far, doesn't seem to suck. It picks up right at the end of the show and ignores the movie. It treats the last two episodes as occuring entirely in Shinji's head, rather than being some reality altering, soul unifying, Instrumentality whatsit. I've only read a few episodes so far so I can't say much about the plot, but I think the author got the atmosphere just right. This is the kind of continuation I've been wanting since the show ended: something that just feels like the show, as opposed to the movie which just wasn't the same.
Enough talk. Here's EVA-R (http://www.eva-r.com).
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on April 24, 2006, 11:10:18 pm
Quote
I've found a fanfic that, so far, doesn't seem to suck. It picks up right at the end of the show and ignores the movie. It treats the last two episodes as occuring entirely in Shinji's head, rather than being some reality altering, soul unifying, Instrumentality whatsit

If I don't remember wrong, some or most fans believe that the last 2 episodes of Evangelion (25-26 ?) happens in Shinji's mind, but EoE is what is happenning in reality, if you want you can get a long overall review in wikipedia, but it's too long and contains lot of known info...

---------------------------------------

Quote
Here's EVA-R.

Nah...I like this more (Page 10 from Echoes 2 - Mysteries of Eva, there are just a few pages containing relevant data, all other is just pure "fanfic"):

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/Shadow0000/0009.jpg)

Ayanamiel, the 18th Angel...now that's funny :lol:

Page 15 from Echoes 2 - Mysteries of Eva number 2:

Narrator: You wouldn't expect them to forget but could it be important to the acting ?
Narrator: Even though the inside of the Entry Plug is filled with LCL, they sweat anc cry and such.

---------------------------------

Narrator: Being sumerged in liquid, wouldn't their hair float upward?

---------------------------------

Narrator: By the way, the reaction at seeing Ayanami's corpse in Ep.23 ("Tear")
Voice 1: Dr.Akagi what is this!?
Narrator: What on earth did they see?
Voice 2: Did she sprout wings?

There are other kind of parodies, "the foot-like things sticking out of Lilith's body" (that is from were all of Rei empty vessels come), which is compared with the way of reproduction with the Mantis's Egg, but if you check you will see both are the same kind...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 26, 2006, 04:56:03 pm
http://shinjismind.ytmnd.com/
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Flaser on April 27, 2006, 07:22:10 am
Dear HLP,

Lately I haven't been too active on the board, and even when I am; I usually restrain my temper and try to argue my point in a civilized and thought provoking manner.
There are times when ones has to take a sterner stance, but letting your temper have the better of you would ruin all whatsoever wisdom thy post may contain, so you should forever be polite and cosiderate.
This, however isn't such a time:

You're all a bunch of pussies.

I've watched Eva when I was 13, way back, when the internet was full of the criketry of modems sweating with massive kilobytes of data. I also watched Serial Experiments Lain (another title, acclimed to be more 'problematic' to understand) around that age, and managed to percieve a lot of insight into my life and the humans in general.

First of all: this series wasn't made to entertain and give you your daily dose of action/humor/escapist heroism
Second: this series has nothing to do with beating the bad guys, triump over percieved devious enemies or saving the f-...orsaken human race
Third: this series doesn't tell you what to think or that everything would be alright - so don't expect it to be spelled out for your convinience!
Fourth: the series, while flaunting heavy judeo-christian symbology, is actually heavily leaden with Jappanese culture; the characters are part of that culture, so unless you're willing to view them to an extent through that culture's customs and ideals much of their interaction and feelings will be totally lost to you
Fifth: at the heart of the series the main question is not one of "finding the right values" or "standing by your values"; but the lot more crucial question of to what extent do you allow society to dictate your values and your life

I could claim, that one has to ponder Eva to achieve and understanding - hell I did a lot of that -, but to be truthful during my first run, I simply allowed the show to wash over me.
Without either bogging down in the details of political cloack and dagger or interpersonal melodrama, I tried took in the bigger picture.

It's a tragedy of classical proportions.
A young boy who lived his life in practical exile - a non-life - is allowed to rebuild his life, bit-by-bit he reestabilishes his self through friendship, comarandine, duty and love....only to have it all taken from him, torning him to shreds in the process.
Through the various stages of his self discovery he also has to deal with issues of sexuality, responsibility and ultimately taking charge of his own life. These are things vital to any human.

Angels, battles, slapstick comedy, secret agents, beings of immense power - these are all just giant plot devices to hurtle the true story along that never emerges into the immediate events.

All said Evangelion is a seriously flawed piece of art: it encompasses so much, tries to work on so many layers, sacrifices so much in its quest that it inevitably fails to daliver on almost all conventional aspects of storytelling.
With such a shift of tone and theme, it can't fufill even the most rudimentary requirements of simetry, the basis of all works of art and and prose. It's impossible to wrap up, to give you the big all encompassing, cathartic resolution.

Therefore Evangelion can't be a morale tale. It can't portrey our ideals, our dreams, our even our subconscious nightmares.
All it can show is ourselves - in all our ****ed up glory.

Evangelion is oft quoted as revolutionary, fantastic or superb - what makes me boil with an unrestrained rage, is that it's quoted so for all the wrong reasons.

The true achievement of Evangelion is the abandonment of the classical story telling formula - even the poetic question that holds pretensious of understanding in itself - and being the perfect warped mirror - unassuming, nothing more and nothing less than confrontation with ourselves.

The rest is window dressing, byzantine worship of garnden gnomes; the rabid superstitious interpretation of the Bible by soccer moms whose sole religious experience consist of stupidvision and supersales at Walmart.

PS.: I read Eva-R right when it was written, hell I chatted on #eva-r on Dalnet.
It's fic of gargantuan proportions, and has its issues; but it's admitedly one of the better ones ever written.
My nominee for best fanfic though goes to this title:
Daniel Snyder - Symphony for the Devil
http://home.doramail.com/mew3point14/eva.html

For a list of classical/old Evangelion fanfiction follow this link:
http://www.angelfire.com/anime/evangelion2000/fanfiction.htm

These are still active evangelion fanfic archieves:
http://www.darkscribes.org/
http://www.evafics.org/
http://www.evamade.net/
http://ayanami-chan.student.ugm.ac.id/stories.php

Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Janos on April 27, 2006, 09:00:53 am
Dear HLP,


You're all a bunch of pussies.



I like your style  :cool:

Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: ZylonBane on April 27, 2006, 11:21:24 am
Anyone attempting to make perfect sense of Eva should bear in mind that the person who wrote it was apparently a bit insane.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on May 02, 2006, 09:42:35 pm
NM, I'm a retard and should be shot.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Mr. Vega on May 02, 2006, 10:21:50 pm
Dear HLP...




I started reading Eva-R, but I stopped after the second chapter. It seemed to be in a whole different world than the anime and I wasn't interested in that.

As for everything else, I couldn't agree with you more, although I think the series would have been much better if Anno had written it while he was recovering from depression instead of right in the depths of it. Which is why I'm so eager to see Kare Kano after I finish the manga (which I am absolutely in love with).
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Cobra on May 03, 2006, 12:00:02 am
a little late, but i saw it, too. is it freaky that i understod most of the **** they were talking about? and i liked the 'alternate universe' shinji. :D
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Shadow0000 on May 03, 2006, 12:40:01 am
Quote
I started reading Eva-R, but I stopped after the second chapter. It seemed to be in a whole different world than the anime and I wasn't interested in that.

Well, it's a fanfic after all

---------------------------------------------------

Hideaki Anno (Animated) works (not GAINAX's):

Director: GunBuster Top o Nerae! (1989) OVA (here is a very powerful mech)
Director: Nadia, Secret of Blue Water (1990) TV-Series
Director: Neon Genesis Evangelion (1995) TV-Series (Writer: GAINAX)
Director: Neon Genesis Evangelion (1997) Movie (Writer: GAINAX)
Director: Neon Genesis Evangelion (1997) Movie (Writer: GAINAX)
Director: His and Her Circumstances (1998) TV-Series
Scenario: His and Her Circumstances (1998) TV-Series
Director: Cutie Honey (2004) OVA

**Remember this does not include books, novels, mangas, games or anything else

Aside from this, like ZylonBane wrote above, he is or was mentally insane, that basically means his overall perspective of the world and all may be too different to one of a normal person (but of course, it doesn't mean he is crazy), usually living or trying to understand mentally insane or crazy people can take sane people to crazyness...one of the reason why they say that psychologist have or are trying to figure their own crazyness...

---------------------------------------------------

Just to make it clear, GAINAX Anime (Animated) works (Not Hideaki Anno's):

Production: Wings of Honneamise (1987) Movie
Production: GunBuster Top o Nerae! (1989) OVA
Production: Nadia, Secret of Blue Water (1990) TV-Series
Production: Honoo no Tenkosei (1991) OVA
Production: Graffiti Otaku Generation (1991) OVA
Writer: Neon Genesis Evangelion (1995) TV-Series
Production: Neon Genesis Evangelion (1995) TV-Series
Production: Neon Genesis Evangelion (1997) Movie
Production: His and Her Circumstances (1998) TV-Series
Production: FLCL (2000) OVA
Writer: FLCL (2000) OVA
Production: Mahoro Matic (2001) TV-Series
Production: Oruchuban Ebichu (2001) TV-Series
Production: Mahoro Matic-More Beautiful Thing (2002) TV-Series
Production: Platina Princess Yucie (2002) TV-Series
Writer: Abenobashi Magic Shopping Mall (2002) TV-Series
Production: Abenobashi Magic Shopping Mall (2002) TV-Series
Production: Melody of Oblivion, The (2004) TV-Series
Production: This Ugly and Beautiful World (2004) TV-Series
Production: Top o Nerae 2! (2004) OVA
Writer: Top o Nerae 2! (2004) OVA
Production: Cutie Honey (2004) OVA
Production: He is My Master (2005) TV-Series

**Remember this does not include books, novels, mangas, games or anything else

---------------------------------------------------

Other similar Series:

**RahXephon (2002/26 Episodes):

Official English WebSite: http://www.neo-rahxephon.com/

NGE and RahXaephon Review:

Quote
Many fans compare RahXephon to Neon Genesis Evangelion (NGE), favourably or unfavourably[citation needed]. Some say that RahXephon can be favoured to Evangelion because of its clearer ending and more active protagonist[citation needed]. Further, RahXephon used less still images and recycled footage from previous episodes than NGE did, a result of Gainax's notorious tendency to go overbudget at the beginning of a TV series and having to finish it on a shoestring budget, a tendency also manifested in Nadia. NGE had expanded the adult and non-Japanese market for anime, thus breaking the ground for later anime shows to follow. RahXephon benefitted from this larger market, as well as from technological advances in anime production.

RahXephon was made several years after NGE, and because of similarities in the respective protagonists and in the style and execution of events it is often criticized for not being as original or groundbreaking as NGE.[citation needed] It is also criticized for lacking NGE director Anno's strong and psychology-filled writing, and also his unique, gritty, unpredictable visual style.[citation needed] NGE itself had its share of similarities to previous mecha anime[citation needed], but its iconic status and fame makes it a natural target of comparison to other mecha shows.

One aspect of RahXephon seen favorably by some[citation needed] is that it devotes less time to battles than NGE does, counterbalancing this with more character development, and an ensemble of characters that have complex relationships. This complexity—as well as early foreshadowing of events—suggests that RahXephon's story was planned and written early in the production cycle. In contrast, NGE's writing was sketchily pre-planned (as admitted by assistant director Kazuya Tsurumaki[citation needed]) and was more influenced by the reactions that TV executives and viewers had to previous episodes.

At the very beginning of the series' first episode, Ayato disparagingly comments that "All's right with the world, huh?" This may be interpreted as a reference to Evangelion, as NERV's logo bears the words "God's in his heaven, All's right with the world" (from Robert Browning's poem Song from Pippa Passes).

There are other similarities, but they are more related to the ones who already see both series...(the RahXaephon is very powerful mech, not the most, but very)

**Genesis of the Aquarion (Aquarion/2005/26 Episodes)

Official Japanase Web Site: http://www.aquarion.info/

Not too much to say here as I didn't see the series, the mechs seems are really well designed, seems to be a mix between some of Armored Core mechs and other series from 2000, they fight against the "Shadow Angels", so that tells a lot, there are screenshots at the official page, the navigation is in English...

I don't know if someone noticed, but for some reason like NGE, RahXaephon and Aquarion have 26 chapters, and in the case of RahXaephon they stopped there, and decided to make an OVA and a Game containing an extra OVA chapter in order to complete the series...
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 03, 2006, 04:17:11 pm
26 is one season's worth of episodes in Japan, which is why so many different series have that many episodes.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: redsniper on May 06, 2006, 12:07:36 am
:eek2: WTF is this?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/redsniper7/whatsthis.jpg)
It wasn't in the show or the movie but seems like the same quality. If it's fan work, then it's freaking amazing and I must know where it's from so I can see more.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Cobra on May 06, 2006, 01:19:51 am
How many Angels have there been... i  think that would be the 18th Angel. :D

it's most likely fanwork, but i've never seen it before. (or it could be there's another movie out in Japan somewhere)

Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Flaser on May 06, 2006, 09:20:16 am
:eek2: WTF is this?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/redsniper7/whatsthis.jpg)
It wasn't in the show or the movie but seems like the same quality. If it's fan work, then it's freaking amazing and I must know where it's from so I can see more.

Either during the airing or shortly afterwards, there was a competition among Jappanese fans to design an angel.
The winner (the winged globe) got drawn by the original staff.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Cobra on May 06, 2006, 10:02:59 am
It figures the winner would be the original staff, the ones that came up with the other seventeen angels. :p
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Ghostavo on May 06, 2006, 12:34:58 pm
It figures the winner would be the original staff, the ones that came up with the other seventeen angles. :p

You misunderstood, the winner (a fan made drawing) was redrawn by the original staff.
Title: Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Post by: Cobra on May 06, 2006, 04:08:10 pm
heh, guess i did misunderstand. i reread it and saw what Flaser meant. :)