Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Axem on April 23, 2006, 09:54:59 am
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While playing through a few campaigns, the current 3d warp effect was sorta bugging me, some larger models would clip through the model (like the Ravana, the Colossus).
So I tried my own hand at making a slightly better 3d warp effect. The biggest change was a bigger "hole" so ships could fit through it better, and its fully double sided. Its also smoother, though I can't really notice that in game. I also slightly edited the warp effect effect files so it would, sort of fade at the back. (Thanks to Wanderer for that suggestion ;) )
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/newarp9.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/newarp10.jpg)
So any suggestions on how to make it better?
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I think the hole might be a bit too deep... It looks good from the front, but looks too much like a bowl from the side.
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Looks good. I agree about the deepness, but I'd like to "review" this in-game... wink wink ;7
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Just from the pictures, I don't mind the depth, I like it better than the current effect anyway.
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Would it be possible to add some texture to the side of the bowl?
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I've tried adding multiple textures and the game just replaced it with the normal warp effect texture.
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Sounds like something hard-coded.
If a coder could enable muliple textures for the model, try to apply some swirly stuff from the subspace tunnel to the sides of the "bowl". Might look good (but maybe not).
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I really like that actually, just don't make it so deep.
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It's not so much the deepness, it's the sharpness of the "edge" of the bowl.
I think it needs some transparency in it all the way. Or some particle effect so the edge wouldn't be noted when everybody just goggled to shiny particles lowering the FPS. :nervous:
It definitely now looks better than current one, but I have always silently shunned the sharpness that comes from the model. I think it might look better if it was kinda other way round; now it has a transparent place on the "bottom/middle" of the hole, but on there the sharp edge of the "bowl" would be least notable duoe to the flash effect.
So, I'd make it so that the light would be brightest at the center, fading all the way outwards until seamlessly changing into animated wave thingy that is so dear and familiar to all of us. Actually, the wawe stuff should reach deeper to the center IMO, just getting brighter and brighter towards the center.
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it needs a REALLY BIG flare effect to cover it up
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I agree with Herra Tohtori on this one, the effect is a great start and you've done a nice job sorting it out - but the sharp edges when viewed from anything but front-on make it look a bit dodgy. Some HDR-ish type glowing around those edges would help but I'm not sure how feasable that is.
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Fading! Thank God! I've wanted this for ages! :D Thank you!
Although I agree with the consensus that it is far too deep when seen from the side. It needs to be maybe a quarter of that depth; like a dinner plate, not a bowl.
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How about something like this? (aside from some accidental clipping)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/newarp11.jpg)
It still may be too deep, I was trying making the end more cone-like than bowl-like. But the thing I don't like about the side is none of the blue stuff shows through on the cone. It's all white.
One suggestion to the sharp edges was to add a glow point, however glow points don't scale with warp points, so it wouldn't work very well.
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i'd say thats a better shape, but the position of the flare doesn't look right. certainly on the right track tho :yes:
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and it needs to be alllllllot bigger
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Unless there's some funny setting hidden in a table, I can't change its size. All I know is its position is always just a little bit behind the center of the model.
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Newer builds have a $Warpin radius: and $Warpout radius: after the respective time fields.
EDIT: Correction - my last CVS build may be the only one to have it, I'm not sure that I committed that set of changes.
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And that'll be for the warp flare or the whole warp effect?
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It should make it act like a bigger or smaller ship is exiting subspace than the ship that actually is doing it (ie the warp effect will be bigger or smaller) whatever else that function is used for will follow.
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I didn't really notice this about the warp in/out affect until i had the 3.6.7vp's
Those vp's had the cool liquid sort of affect, which had some good obscuring to it when the ship exited normal space
Then the new subspace ani's came around in 3.6.8 deltas, and are great
Until the fake hdr topic came up
And came out with a nice obscure affect like this
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7954/untitled104nd.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
And then the other one for when a big ship came in and out
(http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/8000/untitled341bh.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Yes these pictures have been seen before
We should try to get this nice obscuring affect without fake hdr of course
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I like it just the way it is. Me wants it now. :D
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Those are some frikking sweet pics S-99.
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I love the effect on front but the side "bowl" shape has always bugged me since vanilla. =/
Have "radically alternative" subspace warp model shapes ever been tried and tested? Like...oh, I don't know, spheres? I'm curious as to what it would look like.
IDEA TIME:
Try changing the subspace portal to be a fully white sphere (use a perfectly white glowmap with white textures), with a glowpoint or similar always-facing-player texture inside the center of it that uses the subspace vortex animation. That way, from all angles, you get this subspace portal that always seems to be facing your eyes!
Although breaking canon, and thus would definitely HAVE to be optional, a solution like that would eliminate the "bowl" entirely and, with HDRish or even simple Anti Aliasing be a seamless transition between "space", "subspace", and the ship coming out (or going in) -- as long as the "halo" of vortex is matched correctly to the size of the fully white sphere.
If this is possible, I'd like to see it -- I can't do it myself.
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That actually sounds like a great suggestion. It'd be definitely great for say, a deimos warping in :p I know everyone here has seen a deimos warping in before :lol: The bowl thing really doesn't look all that great. The subspace effect really only looks good if you look at it from the front.
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Only few problems... AFAIK and also based on what i have tested myself...
i) glowpoints do not scale with the warp model
ii) animated glowpoints do not appear to be functional
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We should try to get this nice obscuring affect without fake hdr of course
I don't think this is possible without shaders. At least not in a FPS conserving way.
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My concept of ideal shape (though this is but a fast doodling):
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/subspace_small.png)
The vortex is quite "flat" for most part of it, but when going towards the center it curves hyperbolically, and when the radius of the funnel reduces, its brightness intensifies until at the end of the funnel there is the flash. And on the edges, the brightness fades into familiar "waves" surrounding a subspace vortex.
Note that I don't think it should be that dim as in the picture. I just didn't bother to edit it more than I did already. This is mostlu regarding the cone geometry, and the idea that brightness intensifies when the radius reduces, until at the end there is the flash, where time and space mix and shatter due to tremendous energies.
Now, what would be really cool would be an effect that reduces the incoming ship's size when it emerges through the vortex, so that it wouldn't seem to be coming throught some white cloud but really coming from the flash at the end of the vortex... :cool:
I don't know if that can possibly be done. At least it would be quite complex. Regardless it'd be magnificent. And more believable than the current (and canon) effect IMO.
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Now, what would be really cool would be an effect that reduces the incoming ship's size when it emerges through the vortex, so that it wouldn't seem to be coming throught some white cloud but really coming from the flash at the end of the vortex...
That would be totally cool, but I don't think it's possible with the current engine.
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unless the SCP team finds a way to manipulate the source code to produce that effect... :drevil:
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All I would want is to see the Warp Vortex spin around like in the cutscenes. It really gave it the look that something was opening up from another dimension.
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speaking of that, i'd like the GTI Arcadia to look like it does in the cutscenes as well. Between it and the Orion, they both take the cake for "most 1999-like texture maps"
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Oh well, if it isn't possible to have that "magnifying ship"- effect, let's have a pseudo-one.
How'bout this: The ship doesn't start to emerge immediately, but instead there could be a growing dark thingy in the middle of the vortex, but only when looking in from the frontside. The dark blob (it wouldn't need to be particularly ship-sized to produce a relatively nice effect) would increase swiftly in size, representing the front silhuette of incoming ship. After it reaches some sixe, the real ship starts to emerge from certain level... uh, this is difficult to explain in words, let me draw a picture:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/pseudo_emerge_small.png)
So that when the frontal silhuette of the ship grows onto the size where it equals the ship's real frontal silhuette, the real ship model starts emerging from that level.
Only thing is, the dark silhuette should only be visible from inside the vortex model. That way it would create an illusion (on some level at least) that the vortex is really leading somewhere, and the ship comes from there. Right now it'd be all the same if the ship just emerged from perfectly flat cloud.
I even think that the same dark blob could be used for any ship. The animation could be relatively fast, lasting about half a second or perhaps two seconds at most (for really huge ships), from a single dark pixel at the center of vortex, to full-sized vessel silhuette.
What do you think? I think all it needs is another texture at another side of the vortex model, that's all.
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That's sorta what I did.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/wapmodel.jpg)
There's a second part of the model that just uses a tiny part of the map that's always white.
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Oh well, if it isn't possible to have that "magnifying ship"- effect, let's have a pseudo-one.
How'bout this: The ship doesn't start to emerge immediately, but instead there could be a growing dark thingy in the middle of the vortex, but only when looking in from the frontside. The dark blob (it wouldn't need to be particularly ship-sized to produce a relatively nice effect) would increase swiftly in size, representing the front silhuette of incoming ship. After it reaches some sixe, the real ship starts to emerge from certain level... uh, this is difficult to explain in words, let me draw a picture:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/pseudo_emerge_small.png)
So that when the frontal silhuette of the ship grows onto the size where it equals the ship's real frontal silhuette, the real ship model starts emerging from that level.
That is an idea that sounds like it would be alot easier to implement, but seems like a good one.... any graphics coders weigh in on the feasability of these ideas (since i got flamed for saying somehting was easy last time)
Only thing is, the dark silhuette should only be visible from inside the vortex model. That way it would create an illusion (on some level at least) that the vortex is really leading somewhere, and the ship comes from there. Right now it'd be all the same if the ship just emerged from perfectly flat cloud.
I even think that the same dark blob could be used for any ship. The animation could be relatively fast, lasting about half a second or perhaps two seconds at most (for really huge ships), from a single dark pixel at the center of vortex, to full-sized vessel silhuette.
What do you think? I think all it needs is another texture at another side of the vortex model, that's all.
I think that's a great idea. Any graphics coders / modellers tell us if they can do that ?
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Ah sorry, I didn't read it all. I have a bad habit of skimming. Anyway, I have an idea of how that might work. Just some creative use of the UV space. I'll see how it works out.
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Shaders like hdrish don't really take an fps toll, just as an example, not saying use hdrish, if a bloom shader was applied to only the the subspace vortex that'd make it a lot nicer
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There is a bloom shader library written for doom3 (or any opengl game) that some kid on the net wrote as a c library (I think.. it might be Cg) that hooks into opengl somehow and sits in the freespace main directory, but when I was using it it caused horrendous slowdowns and flashed on and off, so its not usable. But it shows it's possible to do it. I know HDRish is around and stuff, but this works even on an Nvidia card. So, maybe if someone looked at the code.. too bad there is no source.
I found it here : http://d3glow.clanugsm.com/doom3.htm
I told the author about freespace SCP and asked him if he had any time if he could try to make it work properly for us, maybe he'll throw the source code at taylor or whomever and they can incorporate it..
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You're right, it's doesn't seem to be usable with the SCP:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/Shadow0000/FS2-Doom3-Glow.jpg)
I have to tell, that was a really interesting experience, but not enough for an epileptic convulsion...
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;)
Look how much smoother the 3D Radar looks tho ! :rolleyes:
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Look how much smoother the 3D Radar looks tho !
:D
No!!! The stars are going Supernova!!!. That's an apocalyptic shader :shaking:
No, I have a 8xS AA activated because I was using a modeling program...the Shader works really well, you can notice it has that Glow/Bloom effect, as seen in the Doom screenshots, however it doesn't work for the SCP.
There are other Shaders which are in the category of Edge Cutting, the result is like an AA, but it's not the case of this Shader.
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You know the engine already shrinks to model - or its apparent size shrinks....when the ship is far away.
What has to be done here is code to draw the model as if it was far away, while using the actual coordinates for calculating occlusion and render order.
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yes, but you'd have to have some kind of warping or morphing effect or it would just look weird.
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yes, but you'd have to have some kind of warping or morphing effect or it would just look weird.
Dude, we're dealing with weird things in this game. To begin with, it's about spaceships, aliens, incomprehensibly advanced technology and frickin' warping subspace effects and stuff.
I'd say that if things look weird, it's because they should look weird. :D
Though, isn't it possible jo just put a simplified LOD of the ship that changes it's size when it advances on the vortex's axis towards the real space? Aren't we already having the 3D shockwave model changing its size? Not to mention the warpin effect in the first place... or are they just static models involving dynamic texturing?
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no, i don't mean, it would look weird, space weird. I meant it would look weird, fake weird.
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Overall, we need the ability to have the ship fade from a transparent/cloaked appearance as it exits so that there is no point where you can see the ship behind the vortex. That could only be done with shaders IIRC.
Here's a thought as to how we can implement my idea (SEE ALSO: Page 1) brute force without any glowpoint:
- Create a fullbright sphere as stated in my previous post with fullwhite glowmaps (see Page 1)
- Intersecting this sphere are double-sided planes using a transparent subspace vortex texture. There is one vertical plane, one horizontal, and one sideways one -- so that no matter what angle you look at the sphere from, you see a subspace vortex image facing you.
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8229/subspacepincushion4ls.jpg)
I know, its a rather "low tech" idea, but with enough intersecting planes around the sphere, it could be made to look rather darn smooth. This implementation would really benefit from the use of HDRish as it would brighten up the entire thing and thus blend the edges to reduce "boxiness".
Perhaps the SCP code monkeys could find a way to multiply the number of planes dynamically depending on the size of the sphere (like the detail steps on the Death Star model)?
Finally, around all these planes, might be a good idea to consider adding an invisible sphere surrounding it. This outer sphere can be used to apply a "distortion" shader or even blooming (I saw this done in X3: Reunion, a warp texture blooms all things behind it) down the line, should shaders become available through the SCP.
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Nice screenshot shadow000, i'm convulsing already :lol: Anyway, i'm not showing off this screenshot to be cool, but the bloom effect works very nicely for juggernauts too. Showing this off mainly because smaller ships warp in and warp out a lot differently than the huge-ass ones do. One really different case would be the sathanas. The claws on the sathanas coming out of subspace here really captures the "coming out of the void" of subspace effect.
(http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/6827/untitled1310vi.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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Let's face it, although it's probably a herculean task for the fragmented SCP crew, adding programmability in the form of shader support is probably one of the most important additions that could be made to Freespace. We could do so many things like this a lot easier.
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That bloom effect looks like it has much potential. And by the way, all of these vortexes are better than the MVP Delta one, so could someone have time to release one of these ready versions? The thing with the S-vortex is that you get a better image of a moving, working one. Oh, and while I think that the "player-facing" vort is an interesting idea, it's also way off-canon. But then again, these kind of things leave room for artistic improvisation.
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Wow S-99, that vortex looks amazing. Certainly better then any of the subspace portals in any of the VP's i have seen. Is it possible for this to be released? What exactly was used to give that a cool bloom glow effect?
-bolero
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Looking super-dupulous, can't say much more....it's simply too awesome
:yes:
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As much as i'd like to get off topic, go check out the 3.6.8screenshots thread in general freespace, and you'll learn all about this. Must have ati card that's dx9 compliant for the smartshader called hdrish, it's doesn't look like this straight from the 3.6.8mvp's. Just showing off a really good example of a bloom shader enhancement. The difference is that much sweeter.
Really sucks that the doom3 bloom effects didn't really work, but it sounds like it wasn't going to work anyway. I mean the doom3 shader affects were made for doom3, it's not really something so much more universal for games like a smartshader is. I'm not saying use smartshaders only in any way. That would really suck. But, getting shaders in fs2 would be sweet, no more smartshaders, everyone could do it. Getting an actual bloom shader working in any fashion in the fs2 engine certainly is a big leap :)
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Bump cuz its my topic.
Oh and there's a movie. (Click ze pic)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/subspace.jpg)
Or here (1MB, DivX6) (http://www.mts.net/~jmsrmr/subspacetest2.avi)
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Sexy :nod:
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:jaw:
I want. =o *drools*
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:yes:
Me like the vortex effect. :nod:
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Wow. I hope you share something soon :D
OHM I just realized -- now that alpha blending is possible for effects, surely there's even more possiblities to try? ...or are you doing that already? :)
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Persoanly, i've always wanted a flatish subspace portal, very little curvature at all...
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Really GREAT !!! :nod:
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As aforementioned, that is avery nice effect. "applauds"
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Backslash: I'm just using the graphic files J.P. released not too long ago with a few slight tweaks. Doubling the fps on the eff, and renaming all the files to the animation runs backwards.
FireCrack: This one is a lot flatter than the others. Making it a cone at the end is really hard to look right, so I'm trashing that idea for now.
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That is sooo sexy. But what we really need is having an effective means for ships to fade out quickly as they come into contact with the vortex without having to resort to HDR [at least, until it's established officially].
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I like watchingcapships jump out side-on, It makes the Vortex seem that much more *cool* kinda like the old series Sliders.
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A few more pics. If everyone's happy with it, I can release it.
GTD Orion coming out of subspace.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/orion.jpg)
From the side (the most annoying thing to get right with this model)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/orionside.jpg)
And the NTF Iceini escaping into the Knossos.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/knossosgate.jpg)
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GTD Orion coming out of subspace.
There's nothing wrong with the actual effect --- it's perfect --- but...
The subspace portal isn't giving off any light!!! :hopping: :mad:
The jet black appearance of the Orion is clashing with the portal's whiteness. It should illuminate the Orion's backend, so that the Orion is brightly lit at the end touching the portal, fading to darkness as it pulls out. There should be no "abrupt light change" between the edge of the Orion touching the portal and the portal itself. Light Blooming does not even come close to what I'm talking about here.
In the following image
(http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/8303/orionlitbysubspaceud0.jpg)
The yellow lines indicate the direction of the lighting. Anything inside the "yellow zones" is lit white on any sides facing the portal's center.
So is this a code problem, or can this be solved with what the SCP already has?
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Actually it looks like you're half right. The subspace portal does give off light, just not to the ship coming through it.
Take a look at the Knossos pic, the inner parts are lit up.
And this pic.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/subspacelight.jpg)
The Orion's side is lit up, but the Hecate is dark. To me it looks like a code problem.
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Aha...yeah...that is odd! Your effect is pretty darn good though, reminds me of the original cutscene effect. I like. The only thing that could improve your effect is a shader to swirl everything visible behind the portal (stars, ships, etc) :) --- all in good time.
But yeah...i don't get why ships coming out of/going into subspace portals arent lit... >_> that doesn't make any sense.
Your subspace portal remains the best one I've seen yet. :D
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hi,
wow really sweet :yes: .
Mehrpack
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But yeah...i don't get why ships coming out of/going into subspace portals arent lit... >_> that doesn't make any sense.
Hmmm.. it looks like the light source is located at the center of the portal, i.e. right behind (and blocked by) the ship coming out?
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can you release it ?
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Well since there are no complaints about the pics, I'll assume that everyone's okay with it.
http://www.game-warden.com/narfin/models/warpeffect.rar
warp.pof goes into /models/ while everything else goes in /effects/.
I would've made a VP but for some reason VP Constructor Suite tries to put warp.pof into /maps/ instead of /models/.
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I could make it a VP if you want (going to anyway since that's just easier).
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Go right ahead. :)
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Only complaint I could make is that it would look a lot better with the new alpha blending system, like Backslash pointed out. That way it could really fade to black a lot better.
But from working with what you had to work witd/p3 its great.
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I think it looks ****ing awesome, great job ! Makes the warping look more realistic (there would be swirling of space-time with such a portal, and the subspace corridor missions are rotating... why wouldn't the end be rotating too ?)
Now, you wanna spend some time improving the subspace corridors themselves ? They could do with a little Axem-ifying...
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Heh, if Axem does to the subspace corridor what he did to the portal, people may be nauseated by the wonderful swirliness =o
I say go for it XD
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Raa: Alpha blending would've been great, but my experience with effects is very limited. I didn't really touch the actual files, just their names. If a graphics wizard can improve on that, then that'd be awesome. (witd/p3?)
neoterran: The whole inspiration for it was the FS1 cutscenes. Seeing the Lucifer come out of a swirling subspace vortex was jaw dropping. :D
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Sorry to double post but here's the new effect in a VP. Its named so it should override the media vps so you can actually see it. ;)
http://www.game-warden.com/narfin/models/a_subpace.rar
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This is an awesome effect, but it does impact performance, as the large dds files (alot of them) have to be paged in the first time the effect fires and I noticed a slowdown from this.
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You are correct, but the mv_effects.vp already contains the same size files. So afaik there's no MORE slowdown than before... other than that would be explained by the more high-poly-ness.
I'm curious, how does the game know to use warp.pof instead of the existing WarpHole01? Is there a table somewhere I'm overlooking?
Hey Axem, could you make your previous model (the one with the fading from a couple months ago) available? I've got an inspiration for an idea I'd like to try combining the two concepts... ;7
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I'm curious, how does the game know to use warp.pof instead of the existing WarpHole01? Is there a table somewhere I'm overlooking?
It's a cmdline option, or it can be done via sexp too. Of course, the same graphics are used regardless, the 3D version is a model but with the texture id as an override (ie, it ignores any texture specified in the POF). So whether you go with the 3D/POF version or not, it's going to use the exact same images to draw with. The POF just allows it to have a more, aesthetic, visual appeal than the 4 faces of the retail effect gives. It really shouldn't be any slower though, unless you have some 10,000 poly warp.pof to render of course.
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might have just been a one time thing for me..
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Adding the bloom affect does make the obscurity of a subspace portal just perfect. But, yeah, this is done with hdrish adding a glow and bloom to everything, but also take note at the deimos coming out of subspace here.
It's obscured, but the deimos is not lit up like how it should be. It's just obscured coming out of subspace, and pretty much no lighting on the deimos...there is some, but it's very minimal which doesn't seem right for how bright and how much light a subspace vortex gives off.
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7954/untitled104nd.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Pnakotus was complaining about a problem like this only with beams and blob turrets(found here http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,41002.0/topicseen.html (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,41002.0/topicseen.html)). For beams it was the fact that ships that get fired upon get lit up like a christmas tree, but the ship blasting the beam isn't lit up as brilliantly as **** since it's giving off a beam. Take note upon the same deimos firing versus it getting blasted and ye shall see a difference.
(http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5947/untitled496hq.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1852/untitled460up.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Obviously the front of the deimos should be lit up all green when it fires it's beams.
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Thats because the beam itself doesn't give off any light. Its the point of origin and the point where the beam hits that give off the light.
Couple of ways to test this: Create a situation where the beam passes near a ship without hitting it and see if the beam lights it up. And fire the beam off from a turret that isn't close to the hull. Like a multipart turrets on Orion. That way the point of origin is away from the hull, and should light up the hull (assuming the barrel isn't in the way), unlike the deimos where the beam is fired from a singlepart turret.
(Note that I have not tested it, and are unable to test it now 'coz I don't have FS installed. I'm just making conclusions)
Same thing with the warp lightning. Theres one point that gives off light. And that point is inside the incoming/outging ship.
I could draw it, but you're so smart that I don't have to. :)
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The warp light does apply to ships both going in and out of the warp. It's very difficult to see going out of a warp though since the model obstructs the light source. Making the light cast ambient as well as diffuse (all it does now) light makes it light up better. The problem is that the ambient light looks a bit strange for some point light sources (lasers for instance), and we can't distiguish between what object the light is for at this point in the process.
I had experimented with this when I was redoing the OpenGL lighting code. Based on complaints from testers this was one of the things I removed. Though, I did make quite a few changes so perhaps the ambient light isn't as bad as there now as it was before. Maybe I'll do up a test build with the ambient light set for points this weekend and see what people think.
And beams are "unique" light sources, meaning they only apply light to the object they are hitting or originating from. The origin light is a little strange I think, probably needs to be projected a little further away from the model.
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why is the warp effect sometimes teal, sometimes blue ? I prefer the blue one and I don't know why there are differing colors for certain ships...
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Backslash: I'll see what I can do. Although the fading was done by adding a fade-to-black dot in every graphic file. It had nothing to do with the model.
neoterran: Do you mean the Knossos warp effect? It's a special case that you have to activate in FRED. Normally they'll always be blue.
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Unless you have enabled the features for TBP in the launcher, in which case the colour differs wheter the ship is incoming or outgoing.
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Unless you have enabled the features for TBP in the launcher, in which case the colour differs wheter the ship is incoming or outgoing.
Yes, i had, when I was checking TBP out. Thanks so much for mentioning that, I was unsure as to why that was happening.
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Taylor's new build (which is for some reason posted in the other Warp Effect thread) fixes some of the lighting issues mentioned above.
I think one of the nicest things about the new swirling 3D warp model is the fact that the bowl part of the warp model looks smooth, whereas the other, shimmering effect had some very nasty edges. This bowl makes it look really neat when ships come out and you're looking at a certain angle.
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Here's the link to that test of the updated lighting code, for those too lazy to find the other thread: http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/testing/light_test.rar
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Noted that with light_test.rar exe and a_subspace.vp the issue of ass-ends of ships on warping in showing up 'early' no longer occurs. (and yea, is that subspace swirly thingy seck-say! w00t! )
On an unrelated note, now all missiles/bombs in loadout spin on center (with this exe build) except for the Harpoon, Trebuchet and Stilleto II. Haven't looked at FS1 missiles yet.
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... except for the Harpoon, Trebuchet and Stilleto II ...
Those missiles have hi-poly techroom versions that get used instead of the normal in-game models. The probably is that those special tech missiles were setup strangely to try and rotate on center, a way that they probably shouldn't have been. I think that there will be fixed versions in the next MediaVPs.
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Is there a way of assigning a glow to a wormhol entry that ligh5ts up the entering / leaving craft?
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Well, he COULD make it a subobject?
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Cobra: No idea what you are talking about. Make what a subobject? Pof-based glowpoints do NOT cast light in any way.
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meh. guess that's out of the question then.
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So, do you just extract this VP into the main FS2 directory with the others and it should work?
I'm running version 3.6.8, and I installed this effect, but there's no change on the portals.. -.-
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You don't need to extract the VP, you can just put it in your root or whatever mod directory you're using. It is named so it will override any other VP's, but stuff in /data/ can still override that.
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I mean, extracted it from the rar.
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If that's where your other VPs are, yeah
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Doh! -.- and just leave it named "a_subspace.vp"? o.O
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Ah, sorry. I thought you were extracting the files from the VP.
But yeah, leave it named a_subspace.vp. The "a_" will make it supercede the MediaVPs so you don't get the old effect instead.
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The effect is A1 soopah... Once you got it working, i for one will be a happy
bunny FS2'er.......(damn those bunnies)
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Okay... dadgum! lol, It's not working for me.. I have the 3d warp effect and such turned off.
Are there any certain options I need to turn on? (sorry to be such a pain... -.- I'm jinxed or something)
:edit: *reads over his own post.. reads the name of the thread...*
LOL! Someone shoot me now.. "I have the 3d warp effect and such turned off."
Sorry... *red faced* *beats head on table*
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It's a sign of some amount of intelligence or obsessive compulsive spell-checking disorder when you're able to find your own stupid mistakes. :yes:
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Definately the latter... :P
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Looks very good, kinda subspace kitchen sink swirl :yes:
I dropped it into my "mediavps" folder because I always use them as secondary mod anyway.
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Okay... dadgum! lol, It's not working for me.. I have the 3d warp effect and such turned off.
Are there any certain options I need to turn on? (sorry to be such a pain... -.- I'm jinxed or something)
:edit: *reads over his own post.. reads the name of the thread...*
LOL! Someone shoot me now.. "I have the 3d warp effect and such turned off."
Sorry... *red faced* *beats head on table*
best realization of one's mistake EVER. :D :lol:
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That'd be this one chick at my school realizing her skirt was...
nevermind... :D
We all make stupid mistakes, some people however make embarassing stupid mistakes.
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Anyway, back to the Skirt ;7
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I think the thread served its original purpose well enough.
Go on with the fruity details of your love life. And spare us non of the emberassing details ;7
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Has anyone tried making a warp effect that doesn't have a glowing front surface, perhaps an "obscure" effect so the ship emerges out of a deep inky blackness? Or even better, disappears into such.
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Could someone post this file again somewhere, as GameWarden appears to be down ATM...
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Game Warden is usually more stable than Hard Light... I'm amazed.
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It goes down every now and then. It does get real annoying when your projects are all based on there... :blah:
Anyway, mirror...
http://www.mts.net/~jmsrmr/a_subpace.rar
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You have some funny stuff on that webspace.
Yeah, I actually noticed it was down before I read this post, incidently, I was trying to download JAD 2.
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Hey hey hey! No snooping around in there. :mad:
*Removes critical documents*
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Sorry :nervous:
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Nah, there was only 1 thing that's sorta non-public. The rest was junk, but I got rid of it since it was... junk. ;)
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Huge bump, holy necropost, yadda yadda yadda, I know I know. Now, to business...
How, if possible, can I make the warp-in model to have glow and shinemaps? I'd like to experiment with them just to see what they would look like, but the model doesn't seem to use textures exactly the same way the actual models in the game do.
My line of reasoning: It's a model (despite being used as effect). So by all standards of FS2_Open, it *should* be able to use glow and shinemaps just like any other model. Only thing is, if I copy-paste and rename the effect files to include the -glow or -shine ending (before the EFF index number of course), it doesn't seem to do anything.
The model itself seems to use texture "Warpmap", plain and simple with no numbers... but the actual textures are either warpmap01 or warpmap02 (knossos portal effect). So... when the effect code makes the model use either warpmap01 or warpmap02, does it also prevent it from using glow/shinemaps?
A slightly blurred glowmap could be cool looking if it would work. And shinemap could likewise provide...interesting effects to say the least.
...another thing is that the DDS compression in these images seems to be substantial, resulting in noticeable pixelation when the maps are scaled up. I suppose that's because there are so much gradients in the maps and DDS compression doesn't seem to be at it's best with gradients... I edited them for my own use with selective gaussian blur, and the effect was immensely better, so I for one am ready to sacrifice some memory for that much better subspace warp effects. However, editing once compressed maps definitely eats a little detail away from the maps, so if there are any high-res uncompressed originals, perhaps release them for people to use and play with, if their system can handle them?
Here's how the selectively blurred TGA warp maps look like up close. I'm sure you all have noticed the pixelation that plagues the warp effect when it's big and close - do you see any here?
(http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/4082/subspacewarpsamplegy9.th.png) (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=subspacewarpsamplegy9.png)
</necromancer chant>
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While we're at it we need to find a way to make it look like the ships are entering a vortex instead of disappearing wherever there's white.
And I can see lots of pixelation in that pic. Ew. :eep:
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Yeah, there's pixelation all right... but the point is, there's a whole lot less of it than in the DDS version. Compare:
(http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1134/subspacewarpsample2dp5.th.png) (http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=subspacewarpsample2dp5.png)
That's how the DDS version is*. And that's actually relatively far... Both end up pixelated when they fill most of the screen of course, being that they are only 512x512 res effects, but which one has less pixelation/artefacts?
That's why I asked if there was uncompressed originals of higher resolution, and if they could be made available...
*to be fair, on the edges of the DDS texture the pixelation/artefacts doesn't look too bad and actually create some kind of pseudo-detail, but closer to the center it's just plain terrible IMHO...
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While we're at it we need to find a way to make it look like the ships are entering a vortex instead of disappearing wherever there's white.
And I can see lots of pixelation in that pic. Ew. :eep:
That's what I said a while ago. Problem is, without shaders, how?
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I can tell there is a lot less pixelation in the first image.
Mayhap be that it was the DDS options that caused that though, because I've managed (probably entirely by accident) to make some decent DDS textures.
Course, now I'm breaking in Photoshop 10 (red pill), so I dunno how well that will work out.
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Terra Hotori (EDIT: Lol, dyslexia --- Herra Tohtori)
I agree, all things that are models ought to be able to be shined or glowed. This sounds like another situation similar to the missiles not being lit originally. Maybe you should Mantis it.
Looks like we got three probs
- @Cobra: Ships not seamlessly entering/exiting portals
- @Me,S99,Axem,etc: entering/leaving ships should be lit by the portals, too (rather than abrupt dark ship coming out of bright portal)
- @Tohtori: No shinemaps/glowmaps allowed on portals
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Greg, the ships ARE lit. :nervous: Partially, but not fully.
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Show me. o.O
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(http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/5138/screen0271li8.jpg)
From my 3.6.8 screenshots thread.
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:wtf: My Freespace2 open does not look anywere as good..... :hopping: It makes me want.... :headz:
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I can tell there is a lot less pixelation in the first image.
Mayhap be that it was the DDS options that caused that though, because I've managed (probably entirely by accident) to make some decent DDS textures.
It's more likely that DDS simply isn't at it's best at smooth gradients. I did some tests with nvDXT (nVidia's command line DDS utility), and it just seems to be so that DDS compression - regardless of being DXT1a, DXT3 or DXT5 - causes rather horrible artefacts to the subspace portal textures. Ship textures usually don't have that many smooth gradients but instead a bunch of sharper lines and borders and stuff.
Kinda like similar to JPEG compression causing much more artefacts to direct lines than to for example photographs, but in reverse? Obviously DDS allows much smaller memory use, but is it worth this kind of quality loss - that is the problem. I'd say it depends entirely on the capabilities of the PC used. Some users might benefit from having more resource-heavy but visually better version of effects... like usually.
I agree, all things that are models ought to be able to be shined or glowed. This sounds like another situation similar to the missiles not being lit originally. Maybe you should Mantis it.
Looks like we got three probs
- @Cobra: Ships not seamlessly entering/exiting portals
- @Me,S99,Axem,etc: entering/leaving ships should be lit by the portals, too (rather than abrupt dark ship coming out of bright portal)
- @Tohtori: No shinemaps/glowmaps allowed on portals
To #2 problem: I think the problem is that there's only one point light source at the center of the portal or somesuch... Increasing the amount of light sources and positioning, say, three of them to the places of the model where the white portion of texture ends and one to the center would likely make the lighting better on this particular effect. That way there would actually be light coming from more points of the portal and it would also light the sides of the ships, not just their stern.
Then it becomes a question of what happens when three squadrons of fighters and a couple cap ships jump in simultaneously, each jump point adding four point sources of light to render versus the current amount of one per warp effect... I don't know how the engine would handle it, I guess that's subject to coders' opinion.
Other option would be to implement lights that have size, not just point sources. But I can't fathom what kind of code changes that would require... I guess it's just easier to wait until shader support hits the builds and then start to figure out what can be done with it.
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I had the idea from somewhere that the quality of your DDS textures was directly related to the performance of your video card... I know nothing of the process though.
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Video cards don't magically replace lost information. If there are artefacts in the texture, there will be at least the same amount of artefacts in the render...
You can simply find the subspace warp animation frames in the a_subspace.vp, extract any of them and open it in for example the GIMP. Zoom in a bit and you'll see horizontal lines, pixelation and all kinds of other nasty stuff in the files themselves.
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Greg, the ships ARE lit. :nervous: Partially, but not fully.
Exactly. The whiteness from the portal seems to be ignored, while the blue edges are being lit on the Fenrises (Fenri? which is it? Fenrises or Fenri)? I don't think that picture is accurate representation of the problem. It has a sun and a planet in it and those reflecting off the ships may easily be mistaken for subspace portal lighting. For a test picture, create a mission where there are no suns and the ambient lighting is pitch black, then have one ship enter or exit a subspace portal. Then have two at once do it.
As Axem said, it appears that portals light up ships around them, but not the ship that's actually going in or coming out. The other issues at hand are the pixelization you guys are talking about, the lack of shine or glowmap support, and the "seam" created where the ship's edge ends and the center of the vortex begins. But I think there's only so much we can do right now. If we just keep upping the resolution to fix the pixelization, won't that compromise performance? Is it possible to put mip-mapped animated textures on a subspace portal to conserve resources?
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Umm, Greg, the lighting in Freespace 2 is set to light only one side of the Fenris cruisers. Light doesn't "reflect" off of metal. Yet.
Those cruisers are being lit up by the vortexes in a crude way.
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Figured as much. I'm just wondering how we can work around it. And I was using the "reflect" term loosely to describe the hulls being lit. Sorry about that.
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Lighting issues:
I've previously mentioned in another thread about the lighting problems. Basically it's just a point light which is positioned in the center of the vortex. This creates a problem for the ships entering/exiting the vortex since that type of light isn't well suited for lighting objects like that. Also, the light ends up inside the model as it's moving through the vortex and thus kills the lighting effect on that ship. Ships that are further away get much better lighting that the ship that controls the vortex.
I have a plan to try and address that though. I'm going to change it from a point light to a tube light, where the light is basically spewing out from the vortex in a cone (ie, a flashlight). The source of the light will also be pushed back behind the vortex, so that it can give better lighting to the ship all the way through the vortex. This isn't really a difficult set of changes, but it's going to take a bit of tweaking, and that requires time. It's basically just too minor of an effect to spend the required time on right now. But I'll probably make the necessary changes after 3.6.10 is released in a couple of months.
Clipping issues:
Known, but there really isn't anything we can do about without volumetric fogging. But fogging messes up texture rendering (which is why you don't get spec maps or env maps in fullneb missions), so it's a dead issue either way. After I get the time to finish the shader code then we will be able to handle fogging properly, without messing up texture rendering. We can take a look at volumetric fog at that point to try and make this look better. But, obviously, we'll have shaders at that point and I wouldn't be surprised if someone came up with a shader which gives an ever better effect.
(EDIT: hit the wrong button. ;))
Texture issues:
The warpmap is one of those few effects that sort of needs to be 1024x1024. It would be a memory hog, at 4 times the memory requirement of the 512x512 version, but it would look better. At 1024x1024, and using the correct nvdxt settings, the blockiness isn't nearly as bad as it is with the 512x512 version.
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my revamped GTF donar disagrees...most of the time.
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Wasn't there a 1024² version of the effect?
Just asking... I'd like to add it to the adv effects VP.
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... GTF donar ...
What is that? Donated Sonar?
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REALY old ship that i touched up. with alpha channles, shinemaps, bumpmaps for when 3.7 comes, glowmaps, fixed tables, fixed .pof data: to put it simply, the whole ship was screwed up.
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Well, if you messed it up that bad, you could always re-download it... or is it a ship created by you?
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its a ship off of hades-combine. im guessing its vpmages fault for the corruption.
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REALY old ship that i touched up. with alpha channles, shinemaps, bumpmaps for when 3.7 comes, glowmaps, fixed tables, fixed .pof data: to put it simply, the whole ship was screwed up.
Screenshots? :eek2:
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(http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/5138/screen0271li8.jpg)
From my 3.6.8 screenshots thread.
WTF? How do you get the comm antenna on the fenris to rotate?!
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Usually all antennaes are rotating in the game.
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They are rotating in FS1 Retail.
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Well they don't rotate for me........ I have Raptor's Up-gunned fenris and Leviathan..... would that be a problem?
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Perhaps. Can I have that model please? I may be able to solve your problem.
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Its Raptor's, do I need permission to post it?
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Just PM them to Snail, and he can PM them back.
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how do you UV map a 3d warp model? just unwrap using camra projection&front view?
ps: while im at it...is it the same with 3d shockwaves, except with top view?
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Basically. I just made the entire part a single UV segment and fitted it onto the texture.
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Alright, i really like the new swirling subspace effect, but when a terran or vasudan corvette warps in (i find it really prominent with the deimos, less with the sobek), the node hole closes before the craft has fully emerged, resulting in the rear 1/4 to suddenly appear behind the closing node. Just letting the creator of this effect know of a glitch, but otherwise, its a beautiful effect.
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Alright, i really like the new swirling subspace effect, but when a terran or vasudan corvette warps in (i find it really prominent with the deimos, less with the sobek), the node hole closes before the craft has fully emerged, resulting in the rear 1/4 to suddenly appear behind the closing node. Just letting the creator of this effect know of a glitch, but otherwise, its a beautiful effect.
That is a bug with the models actually, their radius values are wrong. It's the model passing through the warp effect that determines how big the effect is and how long it stays open.
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It's very nice to look at.
Do you think you can make one that looks like the one in the Bastion movie?
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You mean like a high-res version in retail style?
Hmm... I wonder how hard it would be to apply an animated height map for the subspace vortex model?
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*drools*