Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: MetalDestroyer on May 06, 2006, 04:31:16 pm
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Well, I've nothing to do these day so I began to make some sort of easy friendly program for those who encounter difficulties with tbl files, or prefer to use some graphic interface to make their tbl files.
The program will need the .NET framework 1.1 to work properly.
Here the GUI I made, it's not definitive. Perhaps I should remake the GUI. I don't know when it will be done.
(http://pix.nofrag.com/9b/ad/fb706f2fade99109c3616cec8d56.jpg)
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Wow that looks really nice so far. :D
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damn ! you stole my idea ! :lol:
you should really consider making it use the framework 2.0, it's much better performing.
And the IDE for it (visual studio express 2k5) is free.
Also consider that using 2.0 means that when vista comes out, anything using 2.0 framework will automatically work without a framework install, since the 2.0 version is built into the OS.
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damn ! you stole my idea ! :lol:
you should really consider making it use the framework 2.0, it's much better performing.
And the IDE for it (visual studio express 2k5) is free.
Also consider that using 2.0 means that when vista comes out, anything using 2.0 framework will automatically work without a framework install, since the 2.0 version is built into the OS.
Hmm, I never know the Visual Studio 2005 use the framework 2.0. Actually I use the VS 2003, but I can use the 2005 (just need to install it). But unfortunately I don't want to put the Service Pack 1 or 2 for WinXP :D I've got a lot of trouble in the past. Overwhere, in a few month (I think somewhere in July 2006), I'll buy a new spec and so I could put the Service Pack 2.
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Features you may want to include:
-The ability to edit modular table files
-An ability for the program to read its fields and formats from a build of FSO, so its almost self-updating. This also means that someone could tell it to select even retail FS2, and it would list only the correct options.
-The ability to recognize and notify the user of debug errors, when it comes to certain table fields. Obviously some require comparing the table entry to the model file, so you wouldn't need to include that entire feature.
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Dude, you're just asking for trouble by not running any service packs on windows xp. It's completely insecure. I know for a fact I can run malicious code on your system right now. You should really consider adding service pack 2 and patching yourself completely up (there are 100 hotfixes on my SP2 machine)
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No, you can have a Firewall, even so the wormhole is still there but it is blocked...
There is a big problem with XP - Service Pack 2, I may be not too accurate, but Microsoft blocked and limited the Internet traffic on a XP SP2 to just 8 connections simmultaneusly, this is a living death for most people using P2P programs (ex: the infamous and worthless Kazaa)...not to talk about people who use it's machine as a server, I think there was an unlicenced or unufficial patch going around in order to break this limitation...(Microsoft say: "We did it again", we f****d a lot of users)
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Well, that's hardly an excuse to not upgrade to SP2, where you gain Data Execution Prevention on all your system files, a bidirection firewall, and numerous, numerous security and stability fixes, not to mention performance improvements.
If you're that concerned about 10 half-open connections limit (torrents ? lol) then you can simply use this patcher http://www.lvllord.de/
Imagine you work at Microsoft : People ***** and complain about how insecure and problematic your software is, and when you release a service pack (that is time tested, btw, it's 2 years old) people refuse to upgrade to it and continue to blame you.
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Nice work a TBL editor like this would be really useful... :)
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I have the Service Pack 2 from the moment the Update was available at Microsoft website (and for me I would have a Vista beta), however that's not what I meant, I mean trusting Microsoft could lead any user to a certain PC catastrophe, they usually made the fixes because of a user who already paid for the program has to go complain and end making a report. Not only that but the worst case may come were a 3rd party company was having a certain problem which really affected them, and as Microsoft was too busy, they decided to make the patch by themselves, of course with Microsoft "go ahead, but your souls will be ours", those companies later submit the fix to Microsoft and get nothing from it, after all the complications they have for do the work that Microsoft was supposed to do...
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Features you may want to include:
...
-An ability for the program to read its fields and formats from a build of FSO, so its almost self-updating. This also means that someone could tell it to select even retail FS2, and it would list only the correct options.
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I don't really understand this point. (Sorry my english isn't very top) If I understand correctly, te program allow to users to select a format for FSO or the retail FS2, right ?
When you said self-updating, you mean to auto-format the Fs2 retail tbl to a FsO tbl ?
Edit : I have an hardware firewall.
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The big problem you're going to have is keeping this thing up to date. I've got no problem with posting details of any table changes I make so that you can add them as soon as (or even possibly before) they hit CVS but if you're not committed to supporting the changes the editor is quickly going to become buggy or obsolete when working with the latest table files.
That said I do like this idea so I fully support it :)
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The big problem you're going to have is keeping this thing up to date. I've got no problem with posting details of any table changes I make so that you can add them as soon as (or even possibly before) they hit CVS but if you're not committed to supporting the changes the editor is quickly going to become buggy or obsolete when working with the latest table files.
That said I do like this idea so I fully support it :)
Could you by any chance to post those changes to me too? To be added to various tables in FSwiki (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Category:Tables)... Ofcourse feel free to add those on your own... its just pretty boring and sometimes difficult to figure out the effects of table options just be reading the cvs code (especially as i dont really understand c/c++)
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I haven't as yet had to change anything in the tables (my changes are confined to the mission file so far). If I do I'll try keep the wiki updated.
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The big problem you're going to have is keeping this thing up to date. I've got no problem with posting details of any table changes I make so that you can add them as soon as (or even possibly before) they hit CVS but if you're not committed to supporting the changes the editor is quickly going to become buggy or obsolete when working with the latest table files.
That said I do like this idea so I fully support it :)
Okay, I see what you mean.
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That's basically what I was getting at. I was hoping that the editor would be able to read a build of FSO that the user has selected as their build of choice, and then out of that, read what table fields are or aren't supported, and display those fields in the editor. This way, if new feilds and features become available, you don't have to update the editor itself, you just change the FSO build that its reading its features from. You'd need to be familiar with FSO CVS though.
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That's basically what I was getting at. I was hoping that the editor would be able to read a build of FSO that the user has selected as their build of choice, and then out of that, read what table fields are or aren't supported, and display those fields in the editor. This way, if new feilds and features become available, you don't have to update the editor itself, you just change the FSO build that its reading its features from. You'd need to be familiar with FSO CVS though.
Is there any tuto about reading an executable and more precisely the fields we want ? I've never done something similar.
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I've actually wanted a nice GUI table editor for a while.
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Well, actually the GUI looks like that (For now, he can read the ships.tbl and put all the ships into the list) :
(http://pix.nofrag.com/2c/9a/e7480818e0a965e7dff01084ace4.jpg)
(http://pix.nofrag.com/5c/ad/dcfca2026d62d9f74019c035659f.jpg)
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I like the MDI Interface.
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Nice. Hurry up and finish so that I can download it! ;)
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suggestion keep a version number and build consistent with the SCP build numbers/dates. for example, version 3.6.8.20060509 would be working with table code in that version and the versions near to it. Everytime someone makes a breaking change, update the tbl editor accordingly. At least that way you could look at the build version and determine if it will safely edit the tables. Also do a check for the freespace executable on the system at install time
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wow, Thats looks really neat :yes:
I've never ever looked at the tbl's but i imagine it is pretty hard to change them.
Just one question though, What can you edit?
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Table editing is actually pretty easy :)
The wiki has a big list of all the fields you can edit too. :)
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Hard? I can edit a tbl in notepad! It's actually quite easy.
However, it's not simple. Simple and easy are two diffirent things.
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Bah. Changing things like hitpoints etc is simplicity itself. Sure there are harder things than that but I'd say that table editing is the modding field with the most gradual learning curve. :)
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There is a big problem with XP - Service Pack 2, I may be not too accurate, but Microsoft blocked and limited the Internet traffic on a XP SP2 to just 8 connections simmultaneusly, this is a living death for most people using P2P programs (ex: the infamous and worthless Kazaa)...not to talk about people who use it's machine as a server, I think there was an unlicenced or unufficial patch going around in order to break this limitation...(Microsoft say: "We did it again", we f****d a lot of users)
The said limit only concerns half-open TCP-connections, you can still have 1000 fully open TCP-connections if you want. Bypassing that limit is utterly unnecessary, P2P works just fine.
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Link (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Category:Tables) to FSwiki's table page.
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Ok I'm a tiny bit lost... so can I load up my robotech 3.6 table (that runs just fine) into your editor and usign 3.7 settihgns have your table automatically "debug & fix" the 100's of errors that crop up? (most of these a token thingines I never seen before and make no sence almost as if many things changed between the two FS open versions...
End result I am happy with things as they are now BUT some people would problably like to play the mod with the newest incarnation of FSO so if your utility woud do the tricvk it woudl save soemone like me a big headache later on findoen someoen to translate teh mod over to a new version (When it's done of course).
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bump. how's the progress? :D
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Well, at the moment I don't have the time to continue the TBL Editor due to my Internship. I hope I could continue it during Summer (mid July or in August). And, perhaps I'll change the Framework because I've recently have a laptop and I've installed the latest version of Visual Studio :D
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The big problem you're going to have is keeping this thing up to date. I've got no problem with posting details of any table changes I make so that you can add them as soon as (or even possibly before) they hit CVS but if you're not committed to supporting the changes the editor is quickly going to become buggy or obsolete when working with the latest table files.
That said I do like this idea so I fully support it :)
Up !! What do I need technically to make a program up to date depending to the FSO build ? Adding as Reference the exe ? I can't do that. Visual Express C# 2008 popup an error. And since there aren't any scp assembly, well. I've a little trouble. And, well, I intend to remake the TBL Editor since I have increased my programming skill since I work. And How can I access to all the table properties ? :D
Right now, I have to define all the properties hardcoded. :/
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Unfortunately there isn't really any easy way to get that sort of information automagically from the code itself. You'd have to keep up to date with changes and add them to the program yourself.
An alternative would be to make the program popular enough that people start asking for it to be added to SVN so that coders keep it up to date when they add something.
As I said in the post you quoted, it is going to require a fair bit of effort to stay up to date with this at first. But it's a great idea and I wish you luck.
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Ok, many thanks for the advices.