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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: redmenace on May 11, 2006, 12:26:22 pm

Title: No Fraking Way.
Post by: redmenace on May 11, 2006, 12:26:22 pm
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060511/D8HHIDO80.html

lol, technically a new species.
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: Janos on May 11, 2006, 02:48:55 pm
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060511/D8HHIDO80.html

lol, technically a new species.

No, it's not a new species. It's a hybrid. Two different things.
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: Mars on May 11, 2006, 02:51:10 pm
But it is a new species, they're capable of reproduction. They're not evolved for anything however.
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: Wild Fragaria on May 11, 2006, 02:54:07 pm
No indication of its fertility?  I wonder what the F2 will be like, if the F1 is backcrossed with either origin.  I think it's also quite interesting to see which origin the F1 prefer to mate.

But it is a new species, they're capable of reproduction. They're not evolved for anything however.

Nope, it's not a new species.  It's almost like a hybrid of greyhound and german shepherd.
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: Janos on May 11, 2006, 03:48:54 pm
But it is a new species, they're capable of reproduction. They're not evolved for anything however.

So, what is the fitness of this new "species" and will it hybridize only rarely with relatives, if at all? How is the fitness of offspring of this species and close relatives? Does this species have it's own unique genome? Is it a result of sex between two similar individuals of same taxon, making this a direct continuation of that lineage? What is the phylogeny of this species? How is it related to Polar and Grizzly? What are the differences and reproductive barriers between this new species and closely related taxons? How does this exactly qualify as a new species and not a hybrid between two more or less closely related species?

If a hybrid is a new species, it certainly puts the entire evolutionary theory in interesting light. I mean, then we have a new species - mule. Only that it is infertile. Or several citrus fruit trees. Does a hybrid between Goldeneye and Smew count as new species?

Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: redmenace on May 11, 2006, 05:28:43 pm
The fertility counts or determines whether it is a species.
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: aldo_14 on May 11, 2006, 05:34:15 pm
The fertility counts or determines whether it is a species.

I believe it's the result of reproduction that is key, though.
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: Ghostavo on May 11, 2006, 05:39:39 pm
The fertility counts or determines whether it is a species.

I believe it's the result of reproduction that is key, though.

So the question is, is the Beefalo a species?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beefalo/cattalo
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: FireCrack on May 11, 2006, 09:33:28 pm
Hmm... this would actualy indicate polar and grizzly bears being one species. If this can mate with them they are all one...
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: Mars on May 11, 2006, 09:54:17 pm
But just bearly, the polar bear is bigger than a grizzley in general.
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: Janos on May 11, 2006, 11:16:06 pm
Hmm... this would actualy indicate polar and grizzly bears being one species. If this can mate with them they are all one...

No it wouldn't. Is the gene flow between said two taxons - Polar and Grizzly - common? Do the hybrids have just as good fertility as pure polars or grizzlies? Does it happen a lot?
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: FireCrack on May 12, 2006, 02:33:42 am
They are not repoductively isolated, they may be in the process of speciation, but not yet different species by a strict definition.
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: Windrunner on May 12, 2006, 04:20:24 am
sad thing is that they shot the animal..
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: WeatherOp on May 12, 2006, 08:41:47 am
As far as I know, a hybrid is a new species, as are Striped and White bass are hybrids. But a more interesting question, would he get the world record for that type of bear? :D
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: Janos on May 12, 2006, 09:09:19 am
They are not repoductively isolated, they may be in the process of speciation, but not yet different species by a strict definition.

Define species using cladistics.

The capability of two taxons to interbreed and produce hybrids does not mean that they are similar species. Period.
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: Fragrag on May 12, 2006, 09:20:27 am
But just bearly, the polar bear is bigger than a grizzley in general.

Oh, that was punishingly bad.
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: Wild Fragaria on May 12, 2006, 10:23:01 am
As far as I know, a hybrid is a new species, as are Striped and White bass are hybrids. But a more interesting question, would he get the world record for that type of bear? :D

You can call it a new 'species' if you like, but it's not.  It's a hybrid of two species and it's fertile.
Title: Re: No Fraking Way.
Post by: karajorma on May 12, 2006, 05:10:45 pm
It's no more a species than Ligers or Tigons are just cause the females of both types can be fertile.