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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: mr.WHO on May 13, 2006, 03:11:35 am

Title: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: mr.WHO on May 13, 2006, 03:11:35 am
Could you help me with finding ships (ready and imported to game) that could be put in T-V war period.
I focus mainty on capships but new fighters and bombers would be nice too. Both Terran and Vasudan.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Mefustae on May 13, 2006, 03:25:47 am
I believe the Angel Interceptor, upon which the Valkyrie is based, is available in the latest release of the Freespace Port. You might want to check with those guys.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Mars on May 13, 2006, 05:23:00 pm
Realize that the Freespace 1 ships represent the most modern T-V war era ships, the Fenris, Leviathan, Orion, ect. all served in that war.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: mr.WHO on May 13, 2006, 10:21:49 pm
WOW, that was genuis Mars  :ick:
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Mars on May 13, 2006, 10:28:16 pm
Yeah belive it or not, I'm that smart all the time. On the upside, once you give up even trying to apear halfway intellegent, your self esteem goes up, so I live in a happy world.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Trivial Psychic on May 13, 2006, 11:33:17 pm
I believe the Angel Interceptor, upon which the Valkyrie is based, is available in the latest release of the Freespace Port.

To be accurate, it's the Angel Scout Fighter, not interceptor.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Mars on May 13, 2006, 11:45:01 pm
Yeah, it moves what 60mps
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Taristin on May 14, 2006, 12:46:55 pm
Good luck on this endeavor. TVWP doesnt even have all that many.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: aldo_14 on May 14, 2006, 12:50:24 pm
Good luck on this endeavor. TVWP doesnt even have all that many.

you shouldn't have needed all that many, if you hadn't went off on a bonkers prequel route.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Taristin on May 14, 2006, 02:38:29 pm
Twasn't my idea.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Solatar on May 14, 2006, 05:22:50 pm
It started as a demo...back when I was still endorsing things, I didn't know it was going to take 3 years to get halfway done.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Taristin on May 14, 2006, 08:19:40 pm
Well, would have been done if we didn't start adopting every model ST made.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: aldo_14 on May 15, 2006, 07:54:57 am
Well, would have been done if we didn't start adopting every model ST made.

:rolleyes:

Oldest mistake in the book....
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Nuclear1 on May 15, 2006, 09:22:53 am
WOW, that was genuis Mars  :ick:

But you have no idea how good an idea that is. Truly, how often do you expect that two races introduce completely radical changes in designs over 14 years? 32 years after the Great War, the GTVA still employs Hercs, Lokis, and Medusas. I would expect that a lot of Great War ships have served for a majority of the war, since it seems unlikely that since both sides were suffering economic backlash as the war entered its final few years, that many new classes of ships were being introduced very often.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Mars on May 15, 2006, 11:31:37 am
After thinking about it, the one problem with that is tge fighters and bombers. The majority of the warships in Freespace 1 and T-V veterens, but the fighters and bombers are all new, besides the Apollo and the Valkyrie (kind of).
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: karajorma on May 15, 2006, 12:48:52 pm
Not all the fighters are new. In fact the NTF only have access to the Myrmidon and Herc II which suggests that the other ships weren't widespread 18 months earlier.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Mars on May 15, 2006, 12:52:02 pm
No, I'm saying that the majority of fighters in Freespace 1 are new, meaning, they saw no service in the Terran Vasudan war.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: aldo_14 on May 15, 2006, 01:03:23 pm
No, I'm saying that the majority of fighters in Freespace 1 are new, meaning, they saw no service in the Terran Vasudan war.

Only the Athena and Apollo IIRC are definitively TV-era.  Of course, it could be that the GTA relied on the superiority (until the Typhon) of the Fenris, Leviathan and Orion and never felt the need to develop too many fighter/bomber classes.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Mars on May 15, 2006, 01:20:41 pm
The First Strike command breifing alludes to other, less manuverable bombers than the Athena, and the FS1 intro cutscene seems to indicate a bomber very similar to the GTF Apollo: a two seater with large missile ports. So there were bombers, we just don't know anything about them, I suppose the Osiris and Amun are T-V era.

Another small problem is the lack of weapons, only the ML-16, MX-50, Vasudan Light Laser, Training laser, Harbinger and Fury are canon pre-FS era weapons. We know the technology to make xasers was available, but was expensive, so you could have a heavy cannon based off of the Subach (damage is kind of extreme without shields)
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Taristin on May 15, 2006, 11:05:17 pm
And Harbingers were only used to bombard planets...
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Mars on May 15, 2006, 11:24:24 pm
Exactly, although there's no mention of any classified uses, it could well be GTI had used them previously, the Ursa was designed with a GTI hull.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: tobiwan81 on May 16, 2006, 01:14:16 am
So you've got: (pre Great War)

Angel scout for recon/scout
Apollo for space superiority
Athena as bomber
Seeing as the Athena is a light/strike bomber there was probably some sort of slower heavier bomber, presumably (from the above info) based on the Apollo. Maybe a 25-35% bigger two-seat Apollo with only 2 guns but bigger missile/bomb bays.

Seems to me also that all the names start with A? :-)

Even if the Apollo served the entire T-V war it seems there would have been some older fighters in use before it and still left for part of the T-V war. But this would be conjecture.

Herc saw service in the T-V War but only the latter parts - it doesnt seem to be there was a heavy fighter before it.

Interceptor? Was the Vulkyrie (can't spell) the first interceptor? Unless the Angel Scout stood in as an interceptor before that - recon planes often do...I am sure the GTi used the Loki as such.

And possibly small numbers of an early Ursa in the hands of SOC.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: aldo_14 on May 16, 2006, 03:04:25 am
AFAIK the Herc was only introduced in the Great War.

I'm wondering how much the GTA needed interceptors, etc, of course.  The tech descriptions make it sound like the Orion was The Daddy for quite a long period before the Typhon came along, and that would perhaps entail they didn't have a necessity for too many fighter types beyond a generic space-sup type Apollo, and the Angel for scouting.  Particularly as, offhand, the Vasudans best bombers are quite slow in the TV War.  Of course, I guess the Angel could be used in an interceptor type role (perhaps because the Valkyrie or some other interceptor project was way behind schedule?), given that the Loki was designed as a sort of scout but was a front-line fighter for the NTF rebellion.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Qwer on May 16, 2006, 03:58:16 am
Look at FS1 Intro. There are Hercs and Medusas over there. I think they must have been developed earlier.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Mefustae on May 16, 2006, 04:42:38 am
Medusas were referred to as "the staple in any bomber pilot's career", so I doubt they were introduced during Alpha 1's service, more likely they were Missile-boats or simply carriers of smaller bombs superceded by the much more effective Tsunami. Regarding Hercs though, I don't recall seeing one... but I do find this quite odd:

(http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/9572/capture137op.jpg)

The cruiser, fighter and bomber icons are obvious, but in the bottom left-hand corner of her screen, those two icons look a lot like Hercs, IMO.

Edit: Better picture; those are Herc icons, i'll be damned, prototyping possibly?

(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7504/capture146by.jpg)
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: aldo_14 on May 16, 2006, 05:00:39 am
Easter egg?
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Kosh on May 16, 2006, 11:52:03 am
I think T-V war era bombers were kind of weak, the crappiness of the Orion's anti-fighter defenses is a testimony to it.

Then suddenly at the end of FS1, a wing of bombers can cripple, or even destroy a major capital ship. So the new FS2 destroyers (except the Ravana) have greatly improved AF capabilities.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Wanderer on May 16, 2006, 12:13:48 pm
Well... atleast a single class of Vasudan bombers were capable of taking down or cripling 'atleast 3' GTD Orions in 2 years period in the pre-Great War era... So i wouldnt call them weak. See for example PVB Amun's (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/PVB_Amun) tech description. Also there are no mentions in the tech descriptions that Medusa or Hercules wouldnt have been deployed before Shivans attacked.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: aldo_14 on May 16, 2006, 01:33:12 pm
Well... atleast a single class of Vasudan bombers were capable of taking down or cripling 'atleast 3' GTD Orions in 2 years period in the pre-Great War era... So i wouldnt call them weak. See for example PVB Amun's (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/PVB_Amun) tech description. Also there are no mentions in the tech descriptions that Medusa or Hercules wouldnt have been deployed before Shivans attacked.

No idea how many wings of Amun were used, though.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Taristin on May 16, 2006, 03:08:39 pm
You guys try killing an Orion with ML-16/Vasudan light lasers and Fury missiles.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: aldo_14 on May 16, 2006, 03:14:44 pm
You guys try killing an Orion with ML-16/Vasudan light lasers and Fury missiles.

Which explains how over 500 pilots died in Operation Thresher....
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Wanderer on May 16, 2006, 03:16:34 pm
Why should i stick to those? If you mean the weapons available in the beginning of FS you ought to notice that not all the FS2-era weapons are available or even viewable in tech room when FS2 begins.. In other words there might be earlier - perhaps bit less efficient - bombs existing before tsunamis and harbingers.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Mars on May 16, 2006, 05:09:45 pm
Those are all weapons with a (fairly clear, the Harbinger is more of a probably) reference to service to before the Great War, basically all other weapons were developed during the course of Freespace 1. Yeah, those fighters apperantly aren't Hercs, because the Tenderizer Command Breifing says:

Quote
I am pleased to announce we have two new weapons to use against the Shivans, the Hercules Heavy Assault Fighter, and the Synaptic cluster bomb.  You may study these in the Tech Room.  They will prove very useful.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: FireCrack on May 17, 2006, 03:11:26 am
They could well be prototype hercs, ross 128 was experimenting wiht sheild technology, it wouldnt be a far cry to say it was testing new kinds of fighters.


I always felt the GTA had rather few planets in it's space to start raining harbingers down on them, or even prehaps the will to do so.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Taristin on May 17, 2006, 12:11:05 pm
Why should i stick to those? If you mean the weapons available in the beginning of FS you ought to notice that not all the FS2-era weapons are available or even viewable in tech room when FS2 begins.. In other words there might be earlier - perhaps bit less efficient - bombs existing before tsunamis and harbingers.

No one said there weren't. Undoubtedly there were. But having read the tech descriptions of most of the more powerful weapons, they always tended to say that they were too costly to equip. The GTA/PVN economies were downtrodden at best by the point in the war where the shivans arrived. It's probable that the more powerful weapons were available earlier, but cost made it imposssible to arm anything but the best squadrons with heavy lasers and big bombs...
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Hamano on May 22, 2006, 07:58:42 am
I think that tweak existing ships in older form is most effective way.
Like below, this is bommer variant of Apollo.
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/AVB_catalog_00_01_640.jpg)
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: aldo_14 on May 22, 2006, 08:07:10 am
Those are all weapons with a (fairly clear, the Harbinger is more of a probably) reference to service to before the Great War, basically all other weapons were developed during the course of Freespace 1. Yeah, those fighters apperantly aren't Hercs, because the Tenderizer Command Breifing says:

Quote
I am pleased to announce we have two new weapons to use against the Shivans, the Hercules Heavy Assault Fighter, and the Synaptic cluster bomb.  You may study these in the Tech Room.  They will prove very useful.


To be fair, that quote could simply mean it is new to the player and ship, not to the GTVA as a whole.

However, the high regard the Herc (in particular) is held in, especially it's FS2 tech description, to me indicates it didn't see service anywhere until the Great War.  It would surely have been mentioned beforehand, as it's one of the best fighters the GTA had and would doubltess have been highly effective if involved in the TV War.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: karajorma on May 22, 2006, 01:08:25 pm
I think that tweak existing ships in older form is most effective way.
Like below, this is bommer variant of Apollo.

Nice to see you back with us again Hamano :) Always like seeing your designs :)
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Nuclear1 on May 22, 2006, 04:34:56 pm
I think that tweak existing ships in older form is most effective way.
Like below, this is bommer variant of Apollo.
http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/AVB_catalog_00_01_640.jpg

Or the bayonet version, which was highly effective during the early years of the Terran-Vasudan War up until the Vasudan development of long-range weapons. :nervous:
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: TrashMan on May 22, 2006, 06:06:39 pm
Is that a warhead below? Or is it a engine+gun pod?
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Mars on May 22, 2006, 10:55:12 pm
If that's a warhead this thing has to be able to cause at least some damage to a Typhon.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Hamano on May 23, 2006, 07:11:25 am
Is that a warhead below? Or is it a engine+gun pod?

Lower hull is Missile pod + engines, not warhead.
This bomber fires warheads from 2 green points from below.
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/ABV_bottom2_640.jpg)
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 23, 2006, 07:18:24 am
Scrap tha apollo , whack a cockpit/AI in there and you've got a new fighter/bomber class all over :D
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Taristin on May 23, 2006, 07:03:02 pm
It needs better textures... and honestly, I think it could use more shape/definition.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: NGTM-1R on May 24, 2006, 01:26:56 am
It needs better textures... and honestly, I think it could use more shape/definition.

Are you offering?
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Taristin on May 24, 2006, 10:55:49 am
Only opinions. Do your own work.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Goober5000 on May 25, 2006, 08:31:14 pm
I think that tweak existing ships in older form is most effective way.
Like below, this is bommer variant of Apollo.
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/AVB_catalog_00_01_640.jpg)

Um...

Am I the only one that thinks this looks like an Apollo mating with a scramjet? :nervous:
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: S-99 on May 27, 2006, 04:54:34 am
I think goober found out where the boanerges came from :lol:
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: TrashMan on May 27, 2006, 05:12:35 pm
I've been fiddling a bit in Truespace and ended up with a pocket-destroyer..

It could fit he post Capella or the T-V war era methinks.. Hangarbay is on the front (didn't make it yet..just immagine a big hole below the front antenna)

(http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1046/pocketdestroyer2gd.th.jpg) (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pocketdestroyer2gd.jpg)
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: aldo_14 on May 27, 2006, 05:38:21 pm
Ah, I was wondering why there wasn't a hole in the front.
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Dave2040 on May 27, 2006, 05:51:24 pm
That doesn't really look like a bomber version of the Apollo, but more like a ub3r t0rp3d0 0f d00m!  :wtf:
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: Polpolion on May 28, 2006, 06:42:50 pm
Well, would have been done if we didn't start adopting every model ST made.

:rolleyes:

Oldest mistake in the book....

I would certanliy like to see that book one day. :)
Title: Re: Looking to T-V war kind of ships
Post by: TrashMan on May 29, 2006, 03:59:15 am
Ah, I was wondering why there wasn't a hole in the front.

I keep wandering about the (unheard) tone behind that remark....