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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Colonol Dekker on June 08, 2006, 10:10:22 am

Title: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Colonol Dekker on June 08, 2006, 10:10:22 am
When i was a barman during time away from my old profession, We had a question of the day board, and the first correct answer got a free pint.
I put this one up knowing it was one of those questions where everone would argue and i was right. The wheel came up, electric etc..

My own opinion is the concept of language social interaction.

Language can be non verbal as you know, and if back in caveman time, the males had just popped the wad up a bird and left her to it what are the chances we'd be here. Because of language the discoveries that were useful could be passed on, like the sharp edge (spear tips, carving tools) which could then be used to develop others over time, IE wheel (Eventually).

This is my answer (remember there is no correct one)
Whats your take on the question guys? ;)
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: aldo_14 on June 08, 2006, 10:39:57 am
There's an arguement, incidentally, that men can only 'pop the wad' because of the development of language as a sexual selection tool.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Turnsky on June 08, 2006, 10:46:08 am
before or after sliced bread?  :p
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Colonol Dekker on June 08, 2006, 10:52:52 am
Valid, but sex obviously happened before language otherwise we wouldn't have reached that point. (please avoid the chicken/egg debate  :D)
Whats your take on the question? Give me a genuine honest to :zod: answer what could humanity not live without, i know jubblies is an answer ( a valid one) but please no jubblies..........yet.


Before sliced bread :D
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: karajorma on June 08, 2006, 11:17:37 am
Thing is language is an evolutionary trait rather than a discovery/invention. I don't think you can really say it should win any more than breathing air or the change single-cell to multicellular life should win.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Turambar on June 08, 2006, 11:27:38 am
i'd have to say mitochondria

we wouldnt get very far without those little guys
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Kosh on June 08, 2006, 11:43:46 am
Fire is probably the most important.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Janos on June 08, 2006, 11:52:41 am
Sticks and stones.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: phatosealpha on June 08, 2006, 11:55:49 am
Agriculture. 
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: aldo_14 on June 08, 2006, 12:59:42 pm
The toaster.














What?
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Flipside on June 08, 2006, 01:03:17 pm
Art. From the days of cave painting, humans have tried to define the world around them using Art, I think it's probably the cornerstone that communication is built on.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Turambar on June 08, 2006, 01:11:25 pm
The toaster.


you know that the toasters are going to come back and try to kill us all
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: aldo_14 on June 08, 2006, 01:17:16 pm
The toaster.


you know that the toasters are going to come back and try to kill us all

Hey, if apocalyptic doom is the price of nice bit of crumpet, I say bring it on.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Polpolion on June 08, 2006, 01:17:45 pm
Bacon is the greatest invention of all. God bless those pigs.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Flipside on June 08, 2006, 01:18:41 pm
The toaster.



you know that the toasters are going to come back and try to kill us all

Hey, if apocalyptic doom is the price of nice bit of crumpet, I say bring it on.

Marriage isn't that bad...... ;)
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: karajorma on June 08, 2006, 01:28:00 pm
Marriage isn't that bad...... ;)

Can Sharon drink a glass of water while you say that? :p


I'd say the most benificial concept for mankind are the ideas of Freedom and Tolerance.

Hmmm. Just realised it but that's not connected to the joke above :)
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Rictor on June 08, 2006, 01:54:25 pm
Tools, of course. They were the beggining of technology, which allowed us to change our circumstances and adapt much faster than natural eveolution would allow. Technology is basically an artificial, man-made form of evolution. Tools enable us to make better tools, which enable us to make better tools, and before you know it we've got electricity, the Internet and F-16s.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Fragrag on June 08, 2006, 02:29:55 pm
The toaster.


you know that the toasters are going to come back and try to kill us all

Hey, if apocalyptic doom is the price of nice bit of crumpet, I say bring it on.

YOUR TOAST IS BURNT, AND NO AMOUNT OF SCRAPING WILL REMOVE THE BLACK PARTS
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Herra Tohtori on June 08, 2006, 02:31:21 pm
Are we looking for something that is only used by human species? Because, for example, tools are used by a variety of animals to varying extent. So... a leverage is most likely not an actual man-made invention, though it could be, but more likely the use of tools (of which most are based on leverage OR a inclined surface, though the most simple is of course a rock with which to beat things open) was passed on to human species from their ancestors.

Communication would also be quite an impressive feat, but alas, that also isn't limited to humans and was most likely herited from pre-human primates - with Homo Sapiens Sapiens it just evolved onto current level, through natural selection of course. Better means of communication, better means of survival. I wouldn't, however, give the mankind the whole credit of "inventing" speech as we know it...

Well, of course we come then to the idea of making notes, which is actually a sample of binding complex concepts onto abstract images. Which is of course the same thing as what happens with representing art. The cave paintings are probably the first examples (preserved to these days) of making notes of How To Make the Hunt Go Well and such things. These probably described the important events in the tribe's history as well, serving as the first "chronicles" - though they probably also had some spiritual meaning and more likely than not only served as back-up for oral folklore transferred from grandfathers to fathers and so on. Most likely after the concept of presenting abstract things in images was widely used by drawing maps on birch bark or similar substances, and VERY likely large-scale hunts were planned using a "terrain box", a small area of ground made to resemble the surroundings and so on.

So, inevitably these images were soon caricaturized and they evolved into marks for words rather than being accurate images of things themselves - a system still widely used in many East-Asian languages. After this, it wasn't of course a long way onto finding a way to write things down accurately to transfer and store information effectively and securely.

Coupled with the discovery of agriculture these things made cultural evolution faster than any other species had ever* demonstrated on Earth, for good or for worse.

So I'd have to go with art and/or the skill of writing, which almost certainly derived from art. Art probably came first as an idea of describing things with something else than pointing at it or saying the word for it. And, from an artistic presentation it's a small way to a cartoon, from which it's a small way to including the thing onto single picture (word mark for subject) and the thing it's doing onto another picture (word mark for predicate) and voilá, we got the first system of written language, though it's surely very simple. But why do you thing cave paintings are stylized? I don't think for a moment that they couldn't have made the animals realistic if they had wanted. No, they made them caricaturized because they had a reason to do it that way, and most likely it was that it was easier and had the exact same information as a photorealistic 1:1 fresco on the wall of a cave.  :D
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: aldo_14 on June 08, 2006, 02:37:34 pm
YOUR TOAST IS BURNT, AND NO AMOUNT OF SCRAPING WILL REMOVE THE BLACK PARTS

Bollocks.

Stick another one in, eh?
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: butter_pat_head on June 08, 2006, 02:58:05 pm
I would have to say the light bulb.  Seconded by the 'valve' (like the one used in old radios, etc), followed by the transistor and then the integrated circuit.

The impact that these 4 inventions have had on the modern world are insurmountable and are now greatly taken for granted by many.  Most likely every innovation of the 20th century has relied in some way on at least one of those 4.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Black Wolf on June 08, 2006, 03:11:45 pm
Language is evolutionary, not a discovery. Controlled fire if one single thing has to be chosen, tools if it can be a general category.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Ford Prefect on June 08, 2006, 04:03:01 pm
I think the microprocessor is up there.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: TrashMan on June 08, 2006, 04:37:16 pm
Heretics!!!
How could you forget the most glorious invention ever to blass this planet and your miserable existance!!!

All praise FREESPACE!!!!! ;7
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Ford Prefect on June 08, 2006, 04:46:56 pm
I don't even remember how to play that game.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: TrashMan on June 08, 2006, 05:27:56 pm
I don't even remember how to play that game.

BURN HIM!!!!!!! PURGE HIS HEATEN TOUNGE!!!
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Backslash on June 08, 2006, 06:48:19 pm
Fire is probably the most important.
I'd say the discovery of water was slightly more important (but easier). ;)

Me, I'm holding out for slood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slood)...

/me salutes Fragrag for making me laugh; good timing.  MY NAME IS MICHEAL J. CABOOSE AND I HATE BABIES
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Flipside on June 08, 2006, 07:54:33 pm
We won't find it alas :(

In Eric, the creator admits that once he made an entire universe and forgot the slood once. I think I know which one that was ;)
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: MicroPsycho on June 10, 2006, 02:27:40 pm
toilet paper, end of discussion.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: achtung on June 10, 2006, 02:50:33 pm
I have a question.

Is anything really an invention?  If you look at it, it all just seems like everything we have was discovered, not invented.

Like the light bulb.  It wasn't invented, it was discovered that by putting a filament in a vaccum and streaming electricity through it that it would produce light.

Or is my method of thinking a little fubared?
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Nuke on June 10, 2006, 02:52:16 pm
nuclear warheads.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: SadisticSid on June 10, 2006, 05:26:20 pm
I have a question.

Is anything really an invention?  If you look at it, it all just seems like everything we have was discovered, not invented.

Like the light bulb.  It wasn't invented, it was discovered that by putting a filament in a vaccum and streaming electricity through it that it would produce light.

Or is my method of thinking a little fubared?

Well, presumably it was observed that passing a current through a metal caused it to glow, passing a current through a thin piece of metal caused it to glow more, and the problem of it burning out could be solved by removing oxygen from the equation. Perhaps these three ideas were what led to the initial designs and the subsequent development, by Edison, to the device we know now. If you look at invention in that context, all it means is putting existing theory into practice.
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: castor on June 11, 2006, 05:36:44 am
If you look at it, it all just seems like everything we have was discovered, not invented.
I don't think these can be separated. Can you invent anything without having an observable reality to build on?
It would mean producing "outputs" without any "inputs".
Title: Re: Most Beneficial concept / invention / Discovery to human kind..
Post by: Colonol Dekker on June 12, 2006, 03:47:19 am
Ok, the term invent seemed quite a concrete trem, but "Inspired use of knowledge" would tha be more apt?
>>Topic skew
>>>Philosophy-RE: Context of language