Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: aldo_14 on June 12, 2006, 01:10:57 pm
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No website link yet, but it's just being reported that hundreds of PLO-loyal troops and police have stormed government buildings.
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Wouldn't suprise me they're the US's "allies" but the entire "country" hates us for supporting Isreal.
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Am I the only one who thinks Palestinian in-fighting would be a lot more fun if they had access to heavy armour, air power etc instead of just small arms. On the other hand, that **** would probably all be lying destroyed by the side of the road within a week.
Seems to me that Hamas is going to lose this one. The PLO position of implicitly acknowledging Israel is favoured by pretty much everyone outside of the country, including the US, the EU, the Arab states and of course Israel itself. Hamas can't take on the PLO if the latter is backed by the rest of the world as the lesser of two evils.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5073548.stm
Gunmen loyal to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas have set fire to the offices of the Hamas prime minister in Ramallah, witnesses say.
The office was unoccupied as Ismail Haniya is based in the Gaza Strip.
Security personnel and militiamen fired shots before rampaging the offices in protest at earlier clashes in Gaza.
Hamas and Mr Abbas's Fatah factions have been involved in a power struggle since the Palestinian elections in January, which were won by Hamas.
The gunmen also fired shots at the parliament building. It is not clear if there have been any casualites.
The BBC's Jeannie Assad in Ramallah says the gunmen belong to the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, an offshoot of Fatah.
Earlier on Monday a Hamas gunman was killed in a clash with security forces loyal to the rival Fatah faction, in Rafah in the Gaza Strip. Each side blamed the other for firing first.
Tensions have worsened between the two sides since Mr Abbas called a referendum on a statehood plan which would implicitly recognise Israel, whose right to exist Hamas rejects
sorry, Fatah, not PLO (even if they are a big chunk of it).
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For real now those people just like keeling and keeling eachother. The reasons are so dumb and stupid its giving me head hurts.
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Natural Selection? :p
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Yeap that could be it. Or it could just be that God's plaing a practical joke on them and its his way of roting out the Idiots and the imbecils from the world gene pool. For real people like those shouldnt be alowed to reproducen cuz all they do is breed and teach their children how to shoot the eachother.
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For real now those people just like keeling and keeling eachother. The reasons are so dumb and stupid its giving me head hurts.
They seem dumb to you because you don't live there. This is a power play for the future control of the Palestinian territories, and possibly the fate of those territories in relation to Israel.
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And thst a reason to wage a what 40 year war or something like that??
I dont think so. I mean all those people ever do is hate eachother. Its sort of like theyr national sport. Oh and sending out suicide bommbers/air strikes....this would be like theyr favorite past time.
I'l stick to the original idea..just nuke the whole god damn area and get it over with. No more fighting no more dying no nothing. And since its heavely iradiated theres no more fighting over who ocupies what. but then agin the srvivors would likeli be fighting over a nclear wasteland anywai....theres just no getting around this is there??
I know it sound cruel and saidstic but its a lot more mercifull then sending young children to theyr death for another 30 or 40 years.
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Ah yes, the 'kill them all because it's a tough problem' school of thought.
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Not necesaryli togh, rather too expensive. Its cheaper to just nuke the place and get it over with. Plus this way the genel pool is less poluted.
But seriously now those people will ALWAIS and i mean alwais find a reason to kill eachother. And if they run out of guns(doubt it) they probably use rocks and clubs.
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Hey, we all fight. It's just to what extent your willing to go to in order to spite your enemy.
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nooooooo dammit the israelis are the enemy. the israelis are the ones randomly killing palestinian civilians, stealing their land, cutting off power and water to their towns, restricting their travel.
one more thing gone wrong in the world :-(
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nooooooo dammit the israelis are the enemy. the israelis are the ones randomly killing palestinian civilians, stealing their land, cutting off power and water to their towns, restricting their travel.
one more thing gone wrong in the world :-(
The whole thing about the situation, is that both sides can justify themselves with 'they did this'. Until we go so far back in time that anyone around at the time is now just bones and dust. That's the whole problem. If neither side admits what they've done wrong - be it bulldozing refugee camps and killing civillians with tanks, or blowing up a bus, propagating holocaust denial & anti-semitism as part of the 'national' media & executing civillians - then we get, guess what, a cycle of violence!
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yeah but the palestinians are the good guys
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yeah but the palestinians are the good guys
What, you mean the ones that stick semtex onto their waists and blow up a cafe?
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the ones that sacrifice their lives for the cause of freedom
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the ones that sacrifice their lives for the cause of freedom
Right, the murdering bastard cowards killing children?
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those are the israelis
they also pull innocent bystanders to use as human shields
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those are the israelis
they also pull innocent bystanders to use as human shields
Right.
So in other words, you're condemning killing of innocents by one side, and praising it from the other? Presumably, if caught in the wake of someone showing their desire for freedom by accelerating a sphere of nails to supersonic speeds into a crowd, you'd be ok with that?
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I hate to say it, but if I had to pick a side as a lesser of two evils it would be Palestinians..
They have loosly organized, independent groups that don't answer to no one that go off and kill eople.
Israel does it in a organized, government sanctioned and blessed way...
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Israelis are fighting to oppress people
Palestinians are fighting to liberate people
its all in the motives
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So, it's ok to kill people - women, children, the elderly - because they're of a particular nationality. Good to see the 'forces of freedom' are so moral.
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well it's definitely not ok to kill women, children and the elderly to keep the rest of them in line.
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well it's definitely not ok to kill women, children and the elderly to keep the rest of them in line.
So, it's not ok to kill people - women, children, the elderly - simply because they are Israeli, then? Or are you saying it's ok because they're Israeli and some other people did some bad things?
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its never ok, and with civilians it can't be justified. but there are two sides in this conflict, one represents oppression and the other seeks liberation. i'll continue to align with the side seeking liberation.
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its never ok, and with civilians it can't be justified. but there are two sides in this conflict, one represents oppression and the other seeks liberation. i'll continue to align with the side seeking liberation.
Why not align with a side seeking peace? If you align with anyone, how can it be anything but a tacit endorsement of violence?
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I'm impressed Israel's had the brains to sit this one out.
If they let them chew each other up for a few months, it'll make it harder for them to form a cohesive resistance when the IDF chews through all the Palestinian land and finally emerges victorious.
Y'know, I'm kinda hoping the Jews do manage to get a nice, stable, secure power-base in Israel. C'z it can only ever help to bring about the Apocalypse.
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This has sort of gone quiet all of a sudden...
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Turambar.
Shut up.
You're entitled to your opinion, but you're not even making good arguments. aldo_14 is whooping your ass so succintly that it's painful to read the bovine waste products spewing from your orifice.
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I'd say both sides have their merit, and that neither side is exactly flawless. I'd say that it's like a couple of kids fighting over a sand pile.
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The papers in the US have been predicting something like civil war for about a week...
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Democracy @ work. :p
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I'd say both sides have their merit, and that neither side is exactly flawless. I'd say that it's like a couple of kids fighting over a sand pile.
Yes, but kids with Kalashnikovs. And, in an utterly ironic turn of events, Israeli-donated M4s. The PLO is getting all respectable-like, with fancy uniforms and Western weapons. Which is why I say that Israel should tip the odds in their favour a bit by donating some Merkavas. BOOM - no more Hamas problem, and the international media can't lay the blame at your doorstep.
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True, but then Israel have already stated that they won't consider the referendum binding because it applies to parts of the West Bank that they want to keep.
It's a risky game they are playing, even papers that traditionally supported the point of view are starting to very carefully detach themselves from that 'snap the Olive Branch' kind of Foreign Policy. Yahoo even point out that the World Court, as they call it, has found the occupation illegal.
It's all pretty depressing really :)
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to think one of thre most (current) likely causes of WW3 is a fight over a patch of desert......
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A patch of desert someone calls home....
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A patch of desert someone calls home....
2 someones, natch.
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I'l stick to the original idea..just nuke the whole god damn area and get it over with. No more fighting no more dying no nothing. And since its heavely iradiated theres no more fighting over who ocupies what. but then agin the srvivors would likeli be fighting over a nclear wasteland anywai....theres just no getting around this is there??
Ok, I'm left with one question then. After you nuke the whole area, who will pay for the server hosting HLP after I'm radioactive particles?
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silly sandwich, the particles wouldnt be radioactive.
exposure to radioactivity doesn't make things radioactive.
correct would be : who will pay for the server hosting HLP after my component atoms are covered in radioactive particles.
similar effect though
sorry, i'm in a physics mood, i get liek that sometimes
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Yeah, but the Israelis cann't clame the land on the sole pretense that it was theirs 1000 years ago.
It was 1000 years ago, different people live there now and made it THEIR home.
they can't ask/take it back no more then Croatia can do the same with BiH
(just to make it clear - BIH was part of Croatai until lthe turkish invasions. The populace living there are mostly decendants of croats who lived there, they still speak the same language. But hte religion and culture have changed somewhat and they don't consider themselves part of Croatia anymore so one cannot force them. period)
I jsut wonder of the western forces would have been so generous with territory for a Jewish state if ti was taken out of THEIR teritory.. Yeah, I can allready immagine Israel insted of Texas... :lol:
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It was taken out of their territory, TrashMan. Palestine was not independent when modern Israel was founded. It's great to take a stab at the US for the hell of it I see, but come on. And the Middle East is by no means innocent in their role in creating the current situation; they've got as much legacy of interference in Israeli affairs as the entire western world combined. Israel's not the good guy in this scenario, but the point is that no one is. No one will look past the retaliation to work towards a peaceful solution, and that's the problem. The Palestinians aren't just fighting for their freedom, they are fighting to hurt their opressors out of spite. That's not the way to a solution.
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similar effect though
I stand corrected. Do you still want to nuke me?
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It was taken out of their territory, TrashMan. Palestine was not independent when modern Israel was founded. It's great to take a stab at the US for the hell of it I see, but come on. And the Middle East is by no means innocent in their role in creating the current situation; they've got as much legacy of interference in Israeli affairs as the entire western world combined. Israel's not the good guy in this scenario, but the point is that no one is. No one will look past the retaliation to work towards a peaceful solution, and that's the problem. The Palestinians aren't just fighting for their freedom, they are fighting to hurt their opressors out of spite. That's not the way to a solution.
I remember, I think, that the British observer in what-would-become-Israel noted that the Palestinians at that time appeared to have no desire for an independent state. Of course, I support self-determination, so I don't think it should have any bearing in resolving the conflict nowadays, but it is an interesting historical nugget.
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similar effect though
I stand corrected. Do you still want to nuke me?
i never suggested nuking israel, i got different plans for peace (nobody ever thinks it'll work, though :-( )
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Well, I'm not even going into my opinion of statements like 'omg! They're so violent! Let's Nuke them to hell!'....for obvious reasons.
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Isreal and Palistine need a common enemy. That always seems to calm conflicts down a bit. All be it only temporarily.
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I think you mean Israel and Palestine. Pakistan isn't exactly a neighbor to the Israeli state.
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Let's have the Six-Day-War again or something, then.
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Heh, no matter what you anyone thinks of Israel, you have to admit, they fight better than most mid-east states (in conventional war) I still can't get over the fact that they destroyed the Egyptian air force on the ground because of the Egyptian leaderships incompitence.
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I stand corrected. Do you still want to nuke me?
i never suggested nuking israel, i got different plans for peace (nobody ever thinks it'll work, though :-( )
Oops - my bad. Apologies! :o
Anyway, let's hear them; nobody thinks my plans for peace will work either, but that's probably because they're likely to bring the world down around our ears as soon as bring peace. :p
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I think you mean Israel and Palestine. Pakistan isn't exactly a neighbor to the Israeli state.
Damn my incompetence.
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I'm thinking that if Abbas' referndum goes through, and Israel pulls out of some of its more remote West Bank settlements and bunkers down the rest, as Olmert is planning to, we could have something approaching final borders. At least final borders as far as everyone except the Palestinians are concerned, because, quite honestly, it's not like anyone cares what they think.