Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: aldo_14 on June 20, 2006, 05:20:04 am
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A mere 500 GHz (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/06/20/ibm_overclocking_feat/)
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My wristwatch can beat that :D
"reads again" Oooops my bad..
:jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: OMFG
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Holy titty****ing christ!
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So, could I play F.E.A.R. on maximum settings on that?
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not with the soft shadows turned on.
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And even then you'd need to patch it.......
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no it isn't a chip like an amd or an intel. it's a more simple device, like the ones they use in cell phones.
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Still i knew the first Half Teraflop (single chip) calculation would be made by a GIT.
(read article)
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Nah... 3.7 ghz to 500 ghz... A measly 13,788.9% improvement.
Let me think about that deal for a few... seconds.
only $2,999,999.99
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Mainly for the cooling system, too.
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But at 4 degrees above absolute zero, you'd be able to use it to chill your beer. Of course, you're in trouble when you reach in to get it and the bloody in your hand is frozen solid, but that's the price we have to pay for convenience!
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So, could I play F.E.A.R. on maximum settings on that?
OK, that's enough exaggeration. FEAR runs beautifully at max settings on my rig, and it wasn't exactly top of the line when I built it a year ago. No overclocking or SLI, either.
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Not bad! Runs at 350Ghz at room temperature, which is pretty impressive by itself!
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if they make a consumer version that'll go 20 ghz i'll be happy
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10 Would be more than sufficient for any home use. To be honest, there are very few utilties outside of 3D Rendering that put any particular stress on a 3Ghz card, though some big RTS games are an exception to that rule. 20Ghz would be nice for rendering, I render at around 1 second of film per hour on average, so more speed is always good ;)
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then, using the same tech, i'd like a 5ghz graphics chip, with a 2ghz chip dedicated to physics processes. maybe AI acceleration too.'
then i might be able to play crysis on high settings...
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LOL Well, I managed to play Oblivion ok without realising I'd got my AGP port running at PCI speeds on my X1600, just knocked it up to work at a proper 8x AGP speed, and the boost is incredible :)
Yeah, physics chips are more decoration at the moment, give them a few generations, once theres a unfied 'physics' language, like DirectX, and I think those things could be great, Graphics card handles the drawing, Physics card throws all the junk around and all the CPU has to do it support AI and hold everything together. That's probably better than having a single chip running at incredible speeds and filling half the case with cooling equipment.
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if i had the chips i described, i'd probably be able to handle realistic water physics
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You could probably do so psuedo fluid-mechanics stuff, I think the PhysX card can already do that to a certain degree.
I always remember the promos for Dungeon Keeper 3, Bullfrog said they hoped it would be possible to use Lava as a weapon by being able to channel it and make reservoirs etc. They never implemented it, but something like that would be very easy to do with a physics card. And yes, with a Graphics card at that speed, realtime animated procedural textures would be a doddle :)
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You could probably do so psuedo fluid-mechanics stuff, I think the PhysX card can already do that to a certain degree.
I always remember the promos for Dungeon Keeper 3, Bullfrog said they hoped it would be possible to use Lava as a weapon by being able to channel it and make reservoirs etc. They never implemented it, but something like that would be very easy to do with a physics card. And yes, with a Graphics card at that speed, realtime animated procedural textures would be a doddle :)
Although you can do that (channeling) without a physics card anyways, you just can't use proper fluid dynamics but something similar and more constrained.
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It's actually very easy to do different heigh lakes etc if you are using a heightmap landscape, since it uses exactly the same equation as a flood-fill. you can fill up 'basins' with water quite easily, problem is, it won't handle volume, so there's an infinite amount of water channels running downhill etc would be impossible.
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It's actually very easy to do different heigh lakes etc if you are using a heightmap landscape, since it uses exactly the same equation as a flood-fill. you can fill up 'basins' with water quite easily, problem is, it won't handle volume, so there's an infinite amount of water channels running downhill etc would be impossible.
Ah, but the pre-fluid dynamic (etc) approach would probably involve placing certain parts - directly or indirectly - that act akin to keyframes. Like, having a hollow and x and y means water will go between x and y, etc. not so much physics - in fact, not atall - but just drawing a path in a very abstract manner. ;)
Now, how much having actual fluid dynamics would improve upon (a good implementation of) the above, vis-a-vis the hardware etc requirements, is quite an important question IMO. :D
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Yup :) Imagine a city builder where water has to be channeled to a reservoir etc :)
For the main part Fluid Dynamics is more an 'Eye Candy' feature though, apart from a few interesting 'Puzzle' type games, there are limits to what can be achieved with it. I see the biggest feature of the card the ability to handle deforming and gravity-based physics, as well as the possible boosts to such things as Particle emitters etc. With good Geomodding, the idea of flying through an Asteroid field with the asteroids colliding and shatterig realistically is not all that far away.
Also, games like a 3D version of The Incredible Machine could be great fun ;)
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This is cool. I feel like I have made some contribution to the chip although I didn't work for IBM :D I researched (about 7 years ago) alternate metals other than copper for better and cleaner conductivity and actually synthesized the first ever germenium diketone compound (for MOCVD) that could be used in nanotechnology applications.
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This is cool. I feel like I have made some contribution to the chip although I didn't work for IBM :D I researched (about 7 years ago) alternate metals other the copper for better and cleaner conductivity and actually synthesized the first ever germenium diketone compound (for MOCVD) that could be used in nanotechnology applications.
Wow.
Cool :D
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Indeed, giggidy. :yes:
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Just remember this is a rather simple chip made for demonstration purposes and can in no way compete with the normal desktop chips we use.
Another thing to remember, you can easily reach high clockspeeds with x86 chips, look at the Presscott design for the idea, very long pipelines enable you to ramp up clockspeeds(Tulsa will be the perfection of that idea). However, as we saw from Presscott, it dosn't pay off.
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Just remember this is a rather simple chip made for demonstration purposes and can in no way compete with the normal desktop chips we use.
Another thing to remember, you can easily reach high clockspeeds with x86 chips, look at the Presscott design for the idea, very long pipelines enable you to ramp up clockspeeds(Tulsa will be the perfection of that idea). However, as we saw from Presscott, it dosn't pay off.
My expectation would be that any sort of research like this, wouldn't be using the old trick of non-optimal pipelines to fake speed ratings. To do so would defeat the point of the excercise.
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How old are you? 7 years ago i was 17......
Wow damn i feel old.
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Just remember this is a rather simple chip made for demonstration purposes and can in no way compete with the normal desktop chips we use.
Another thing to remember, you can easily reach high clockspeeds with x86 chips, look at the Presscott design for the idea, very long pipelines enable you to ramp up clockspeeds(Tulsa will be the perfection of that idea). However, as we saw from Presscott, it dosn't pay off.
My expectation would be that any sort of research like this, wouldn't be using the old trick of non-optimal pipelines to fake speed ratings. To do so would defeat the point of the excercise.
Chips like these are made for expirimental purposes rather then anything resembling a plan to bring this to market. This seems more like a 'lets see what we can do with new technology' with an eye towards applying parts of it to designs.
IBM does alot of this kind of work, concept design research.
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Yup, we won't be looking at 100Ghz CPU's for a long time yet, 10Ghz may well be closer than we think, though I suspect it's more the architecture of the Motherboard that stands in the way of that rather than technology.
And that's pretty cool stuff Wild Fragaria! You made a little piece of History ;)
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Well a tenth of a Teraflop in my house is ok by my estimations.
I give t five years, maybe 7.
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How old are you? 7 years ago i was 17......
Wow damn i feel old.
I'm not that old. I'm a child prodigy :P How old do you think I am?
Yup, we won't be looking at 100Ghz CPU's for a long time yet, 10Ghz may well be closer than we think, though I suspect it's more the architecture of the Motherboard that stands in the way of that rather than technology.
And that's pretty cool stuff Wild Fragaria! You made a little piece of History ;)
Thanks. I was quite happy to read the news this morning :D
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LAte teens early 20s?........ I've never conversed that much with you, well not enough for me to bas an opinion. You are an Londoner or S/E Englander though, i can tell that much :D
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I think this is a simple signal processor, quite far off from a computer CPU as Ace Pace said. There is some interesting manufacturing tech involved though. :yes:
OK, that's enough exaggeration. FEAR runs beautifully at max settings on my rig, and it wasn't exactly top of the line when I built it a year ago. No overclocking or SLI, either.
Depends on what you call beautifully. I have upgraded my stuff twice since that game came out and although it now runs decently, the performance is nothing even close to what I would consider "beautiful," unless I play at some very low resolution. :p
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LAte teens early 20s?........ I've never conversed that much with you, well not enough for me to bas an opinion. You are an Londoner or S/E Englander though, i can tell that much :D
Didn't you see her pics when she posted em on here Dekker OMG ;7 :yes:
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Not that i remember, I tend not to look at peoples pics it shatters the illusion of the preconcieved handsome beutiful people i have. :D
J/K
I'm sure you're all presentable.
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LAte teens early 20s?........ I've never conversed that much with you, well not enough for me to bas an opinion. You are an Londoner or S/E Englander though, i can tell that much :D
:rolleyes:
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Yup, we won't be looking at 100Ghz CPU's for a long time yet, 10Ghz may well be closer than we think, though I suspect it's more the architecture of the Motherboard that stands in the way of that rather than technology.
Not really, making a faster bus on the motherboard is more technical then anything, the problem is the CPU itself and the memory it has to acess.
On one side, making CPUs work fast is connected to having more stages in the CPU pipeline(I.E Netburst design), but then you run into heat/power issues, as more pipelines requires more power.
The other issue is RAM speed, the faster your CPU is, the more it has to wait for memory. Today latency for on die memory is down to single/lower tens of NSs, still a long time for the CPU, while RAM acess latency is slowly dropping from 150ns to 50ns(Athlons do well here). Thats still a very long time for the CPU to wait, so you need more cache to keep memory acess down. Problem spirals untill people will finnaly adopt XDR RAM. :p
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LAte teens early 20s?........ I've never conversed that much with you, well not enough for me to bas an opinion. You are an Londoner or S/E Englander though, i can tell that much :D
Me, an English from London (or from southeast England)??! That is a very big news me :eek2:
I know you're 24 (because you said it on HLP) and you have a 2 yr old kid (also, you said it on HLP). I am around your age.
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Not that i remember, I tend not to look at peoples pics it shatters the illusion of the preconcieved handsome beutiful people i have. :D
J/K
I'm sure you're all presentable.
Ah, but that's where you're wrong. You see, it's a pity you don't look at peoples' pix, because I do happen to be handsome and beautiful.
And btw, just to stay a bit ontopic, 500 GHz? Pshaw. I bet you I've seen my trusty old TI-83 do that. :P
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My age is public knowledge :D
As for my daughter lol i cant remember when i mentioned her, But i must have otherwise <spooky>how would you guys know :nervous:<spooky>
Locationwise, Erk, I'm obviously wrong then :D our loss i guess.
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The clock speed does not impress me. I'm more interested in the processing speed, which is usually measured in FLOPS.
500GHz is utterly meaningless if it takes 500 clock cycles to do a single integer addition.
Deeper pipelines do not necessarily equate to higher possible clock speeds. The extra complexity often imposes other limits on the speed. Not only that, but deeper pipelines are affected more by cache misses. Larger caches to counter this problem are both expensive and power-consuming, which equates to more heat and a lower maximum clock speed. Finally, a deep pipeline requires accurate flow control prediction to be effective. A mispredicted jump means that the whole pipeline has to be flushed and it will take many more clock cycles to refill than a short pipeline.
AMD's current crop of CPUs have relatively short pipelines running at low clock speeds with small caches. They still outdo Intel's Pentium 4s. Since their jump prediction can be simpler it is more robust and cheaper to produce. Cache memory is hellishly expensive stuff and small caches further reduce the price.
Pentium-M is, as I'm sure everyone knows, based on the Pentium 3, but brought up to date. It is more similar to AMD's architectures.
Deep pipelines have faced off against short pipelines, and they lost.
[edit]
A decent framerate for FEAR is an average of 40fps, which an XFX GF7800GTX, Athlon X2 4200 and 2GB of dual-channel 500MHz RAM can maintain happily with everything turned on and turned up, except for FSAA (only at 4x) because I can't see much difference at higher sampling levels.
Now I come to think of it, the graphics card is overclocked, but it came that way. This particular XFX card runs about 12% faster than stock speeds.
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Worth noting; (measured & tested) optimal pipeline length is ~16 stages. Pentium 3's, IIRC, used over 20.
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Worth noting; (measured & tested) optimal pipeline length is ~16 stages. Pentium 3's, IIRC, used over 20.
<-- Definetly needs a source so he can learn.
Right now I'd say the Conroe pipeline looks the best merging between a long pipe for branch prediction and good efficiency. It also helps that it's very wide.
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Worth noting; (measured & tested) optimal pipeline length is ~16 stages. Pentium 3's, IIRC, used over 20.
<-- Definetly needs a source so he can learn.
Right now I'd say the Conroe pipeline looks the best merging between a long pipe for branch prediction and good efficiency. It also helps that it's very wide.
I'd recommend Patterson & Hennessys' Computer Organization and Design, I used it at uni. Never read it all, mind you; but comprehensive.
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I'd recommend Patterson & Hennessys' Computer Organization and Design, I used it at uni. Never read it all, mind you; but comprehensive.
Great, chance of me aquiring that soon are close to nil. Oh well, when Uni rolls around.
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I'd recommend Patterson & Hennessys' Computer Organization and Design, I used it at uni. Never read it all, mind you; but comprehensive.
Great, chance of me aquiring that soon are close to nil. Oh well, when Uni rolls around.
Why, where are you?
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Why, where are you?
Roughly a 30 minute walk from Sandwich. :pimp:
Yet I havn't seen the guy.
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He moves in mysterious ways.
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He moves in mysterious ways.
moving in mysterious ways happens to be the only proven way of not being hit by a random rocket fired from 12 miles away
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Are you saying Sandwich regularly gets rando rockets fired at him from 12 miles away?
And have you seen that God guy? Man, he moves like...he makes Sandwich look like a sandwich.
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A decent framerate for FEAR is an average of 40fps, which an XFX GF7800GTX, Athlon X2 4200 and 2GB of dual-channel 500MHz RAM can maintain happily with everything turned on and turned up, except for FSAA (only at 4x) because I can't see much difference at higher sampling levels.
Now I come to think of it, the graphics card is overclocked, but it came that way. This particular XFX card runs about 12% faster than stock speeds.
Well, we all have different expectations with these things. 40fps average is a slideshow to me, and I wouldn't get anything close to even that with everything maxed out. I wouldn't mind having a hypothetical 500ghz version of some current GPU to make things better. :D
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Surely I'm not the only person who's managed to be happy with 25fps?
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I can't say that Fear was ever one of my 'Framerate Problem' games. Oblivion, Doom3 and some RTS games when I build ridiculously huge armies are the only real problems I get.
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Every game is a 'Framerate Problem' game for me :D
Luckily I don't really play (or buy new) games much nowadays.
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25fps is... almost playable in games where you don't need lightning reflexes. 40fps is enough to get by in pretty much any singleplayer game. If I need really fast, accurate response, such as in UT2K4 against players who are at least reasonable at it, I'll aim for 50fps+.
For normal FEAR play, I'd turn off antialiasing altogether. I only really use it for speed comparison because everyone else seems to consider it essential. At 1280x1024, I don't notice the jaggies.
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Me too, I never use AA in-game, only for taking Beauty Shots. Since you're usually in motion during most games, whether it's zipping round the map in a city builder or playing in First person, I really don't notice the difference unless I look for it.
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25fps is... almost playable in games where you don't need lightning reflexes.
Quake 4? :D
25 fps is, IIRC, the speed at which things appear to be moving in continuous motion. For some reason, assuming the FPS counter was right of course, I found Q4 perfectly playable - if not a particularly good game - at that rate and, at some points, even lower. Kerayzee.
That's not to say it's the fastest the eye can detect, of course; IIRC the USAF tested pilots and found they (albeit they are trained to do that sort of thing, so their brain may be more attuned to that sort of visual detection) could recognise and call out objects that only appeared for a 15,000th of a second.
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25fps is... almost playable in games where you don't need lightning reflexes. 40fps is enough to get by in pretty much any singleplayer game. If I need really fast, accurate response, such as in UT2K4 against players who are at least reasonable at it, I'll aim for 50fps+.
For normal FEAR play, I'd turn off antialiasing altogether. I only really use it for speed comparison because everyone else seems to consider it essential. At 1280x1024, I don't notice the jaggies.
Well, 5fps is quite playable if you're used to it (I used to play this old racing game called Vette on my Mac many years ago and it ran like that, but I didn't care one bit :D), but I don't think that necessarily means there isn't room for improvement.
I don't care about the averages, but in general I try to get the overall minimum to about 50fps in singleplayer FPS games and 70fps in multiplayer games. If it falls below that more than once or twice, it's time to drop some settings. I don't use AA in FEAR either; it makes a big difference in visual quality but I would still rather have the extra performance.
This is one reason I like old games. You can pump up the resolution and other settings and still get a nice, liquid smooth 100fps at all times. :D
25 fps is, IIRC, the speed at which things appear to be moving in continuous motion. For some reason, assuming the FPS counter was right of course, I found Q4 perfectly playable - if not a particularly good game - at that rate and, at some points, even lower. Kerayzee.
Quake 4 has its own weird issues. The Doom 3 engine has an annoying problem where the physics engine goes out of sync with the graphics whenever the framerate falls below 60 and causes the game to keep stuttering (insistently, like two or three times a second), so 60 minimum is a must for that game IMO.
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Attitude to fps is one of those totally relative things, methinks. Kind of like the Toast Conspiracy.