Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: foolfromhell on July 09, 2006, 06:58:30 pm
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Where did those Sathanas go in the end of FS2? If they made a jump within the system, they would have been obliterated. If they did want to be obliterated, they would have stayed with the other 4 Sathanases. I think they made a inter-system jump without a node. Meaning they can still return.
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mmm no, well, thier could jump as far as they can avoiding the shockwave for several hours, maybe days, them jump back to the gamma draconis jump node. :D
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Begin plasma core insertion, gunnery control, open fire:
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3808/welcome2hlpbb4xp.gif) (http://imageshack.us)
Welcome to HLP. Please keep all appendages within the installation at all times. Flamethrowers are located underneath all seats, however, due to the rising cost of oil, the ID / evolution debate (don't debate me on Whether or not there is a debate),V, and the meaning of life, the napalm has been replaced with Holy Water. Plasma rifles are located in the weapons locker, but only Admins,V, or a hyper-intelligent shade of blue have access to these areas. If you meet a Shivan in the ductwork it is most likely Carl, give him your lunch and back away slowly, odds are good you'll be fine. Recommend reading includes Karajorma's Freespace FAQ for general questions, and The Freespace Wiki for specific issues and questions.
You're the third that I kill. :)
As for the Sats, I dont know but what ShivanSpS says might be true, I guess not even the shivans would waste some many capital ships like that. But then again, if that was what happened, wouldnt the other shivan forces do the same? It's clearly show that they keep fighting the GTVA even with the nova going.
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I think most of us assume that by destroying the star they were able to open up a new subspace node at the same time and took advantage of that. I think most of us assume that their actions was not in response to powering up a new weapon or even bothering with the GTVA at all. They pretty much ignored the Terrans and Vasudans. So I'm pretty sure their motives were elsewhere.
We knew a few things about what FS3 was going to be like. Dave Baranec, back in the days of the VBB came in and tossed us a few ideas...ships that affected gameplay like a planetary surface and a realization that the Shivans were only part of a much larger problem. Be that problem natural or another species or something like that. The problem may be subspace itself. The problem may be us traveling it. Its hard to say.
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Well, it doesnt matter that much where they went but please, feel free to do a new campaign with at least 50 missions, a complete storyline, new ships and weapons just to show what you think that happens with them. :D
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Where did those Sathanas go in the end of FS2? If they made a jump within the system, they would have been obliterated. If they didnt want to be obliterated, they would have stayed with the other 4 Sathanases. I think they made a inter-system jump without a node. Meaning they can still return.
You are by far not the first guy to ask that question. The fact is: no one knows.
Here's my question that's been ask 39752057984029 times already: if Volition's never gonna make FS3, what's wrong with letting us at HLP know what they were gonna do? Seems a shame to let their brilliant story go to waste.
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Well, it doesnt matter that much where they went but please, feel free to do a new campaign with at least 50 missions, a complete storyline, new ships and weapons just to show what you think that happens with them. :D
Bad Sarafan! *smites*
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Seems a shame to let their brilliant story go to waste.
2nd'ed.
I beleive the Shivans may not be as far ahead in technology as we think. They developed Beam weapons not long after fs1, when we copied them.
I think its their new experimental weapon. That and the fact it took near 100 sathanis' to do it (blow up a star) signifies that they arnt soo far advanced. or it would have took less, by far, most likely.
"Why a weapon?" Well, they took out a whole bloody planet, and not just 'rendered it unhabital' (that could one day hold life again) but totally destroyed it. Not only did they kill people, take a habitable planet away, but they took the planets resources as well. Its supplies, metals, minerals, etc. A planet is a great loss, but they also took a big loss to do so. Whats a few ships to a planet? Seems they only had one Lucifer, their next best was the sathi.
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Here's my question that's been ask 39752057984029 times already: if Volition's never gonna make FS3, what's wrong with letting us at HLP know what they were gonna do? Seems a shame to let their brilliant story go to waste.
There is a slight chance that they might be able to dig out the license from Interplay and make a proper FS3. [/hypothetical]
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That was just mean........never talk of this again :( @ official FS3
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Seems a shame to let their brilliant story go to waste.
2nd'ed.
I beleive the Shivans may not be as far ahead in technology as we think. They developed Beam weapons not long after fs1, when we copied them.
I think its their new experimental weapon. That and the fact it took near 100 sathanis' to do it (blow up a star) signifies that they arnt soo far advanced. or it would have took less, by far, most likely.
"Why a weapon?" Well, they took out a whole bloody planet, and not just 'rendered it unhabital' (that could one day hold life again) but totally destroyed it. Not only did they kill people, take a habitable planet away, but they took the planets resources as well. Its supplies, metals, minerals, etc. A planet is a great loss, but they also took a big loss to do so. Whats a few ships to a planet? Seems they only had one Lucifer, their next best was the sathi.
That's not true; we don't know when the Shivans developed beams, only when they were first seen by the GTVA. Because of the Shivans' murky motives, for all we know they ramp up the level of weaponry they use in proportion to the strength of the enemy; for a primitive TV war era foe they kill planets, for a more advanced FS2 era enemy they kill stars, etc. Beams negate the Lucifers' shields, so they leave them behind, etc. Plus, for all we know the Sathani were a refugee or colony fleet rather than out-and-out warships.
It strikes me, too, that 80 Sathani to blow up a star is rather impressive; it is a star, after all; that's a level of power massively above anything hinted at before in FS1 or 2. Moreso, we don't know if the Shivans intended to destroy it, or if that was a side-effect. We don't know, either, if the Shivans did (intend to) create a 'supernode'; was it an exit...or entry?
That's the beauty of it, of course. It's completely wide open.
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they could have jumped, and stayed in subspace until the blast was over, then exited.
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When they exited subspace then the radiation on the site would kill all of them.
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Yeah maby they did not intend for the star to blow, maby just a accident in a experiment. They did loose many ships. Maby the sathi were really fighting another enemy or soemthing, and needed somethign from the capella star to fight em.
Meh. I still hold true to my beleif, stated in last post tho.
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That's probably the closest explanation, given :v:'s cryptic remark about Shivans being the "symptoms of a much greater problem."
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Where did those Sathanas go in the end of FS2? If they made a jump within the system, they would have been obliterated. If they didnt want to be obliterated, they would have stayed with the other 4 Sathanases. I think they made a inter-system jump without a node. Meaning they can still return.
Thy got tagged.
They couldn't jump out of the system just like that. You need a node from that and they were far away from it when the star blew. A Supernova would destroy EVERYTHING inside a system and then continue expanding, eventually covering dozens ,even hunderds of light years in a nubula.
Or they made some super jump to god-knows-where. Those that were left (more than 4, the camer was showing jsut few saths) were certanly fried.
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Yeah maby they did not intend for the star to blow, maby just a accident in a experiment. They did loose many ships. Maby the sathi were really fighting another enemy or soemthing, and needed somethign from the capella star to fight em.
Meh. I still hold true to my beleif, stated in last post tho.
The 'Capella-as-whoopsy' arguement, which not being in any way provably wrong, does remove a bit of the 'magic' from the story though.
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Thy got tagged.
They couldn't jump out of the system just like that. You need a node from that and they were far away from it when the star blew. A Supernova would destroy EVERYTHING inside a system and then continue expanding, eventually covering dozens ,even hunderds of light years in a nubula.
Or they made some super jump to god-knows-where. Those that were left (more than 4, the camer was showing jsut few saths) were certanly fried.
Or they made an in-system jump to Capella H's vicinity and used nodes around that to escape.
Personally I doubt :v: had the astronomical knowledge to come up with that as a viable explaination but Capella's red dwarfs are 63 light days away from the rest of the system. For all we know the Shivans jump engines may be good enough to reach that far with an in-system jump.
Hell for that matter the GTVA's engines may be good enough. What the limits of an in-system jump are was never actually mentioned.
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Thy got tagged.
They couldn't jump out of the system just like that. You need a node from that and they were far away from it when the star blew. A Supernova would destroy EVERYTHING inside a system and then continue expanding, eventually covering dozens ,even hunderds of light years in a nubula.
Or they made some super jump to god-knows-where. Those that were left (more than 4, the camer was showing jsut few saths) were certanly fried.
Or they made an in-system jump to Capella H's vicinity and used nodes around that to escape.
Personally I doubt :v: had the astronomical knowledge to come up with that as a viable explaination but Capella's red dwarfs are 63 light days away from the rest of the system. For all we know the Shivans jump engines may be good enough to reach that far with an in-system jump.
Hell for that matter the GTVA's engines may be good enough. What the limits of an in-system jump are was never actually mentioned.
I think i read somewhere that intra-system jumps needed intense gravity field. Maybe stronger the gravity, farther you can jump? Maybe thats why they went so close to the Sun
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Oh dear.
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Where did those Sathanas go in the end of FS2? If they made a jump within the system, they would have been obliterated. If they didnt want to be obliterated, they would have stayed with the other 4 Sathanases. I think they made a inter-system jump without a node. Meaning they can still return.
You are by far not the first guy to ask that question. The fact is: no one knows.
Here's my question that's been ask 39752057984029 times already: if Volition's never gonna make FS3, what's wrong with letting us at HLP know what they were gonna do? Seems a shame to let their brilliant story go to waste.
We asked that too...the information I gave in my post is as much as they really had on the thing. I talked to the writer (Jason Scott I believe is his name) and I asked him where he was going with the FS2 ending and the honest truth (or so I was told) was that they really didn't have a specific direction except they wanted it to be big...huge even. The idea was to definately follow on with another game to answer that question. Never happened as you can see....
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Yeah maby they did not intend for the star to blow, maby just a accident in a experiment. They did loose many ships. Maby the sathi were really fighting another enemy or soemthing, and needed somethign from the capella star to fight em.
Meh. I still hold true to my beleif, stated in last post tho.
The 'Capella-as-whoopsy' arguement, which not being in any way provably wrong, does remove a bit of the 'magic' from the story though.
Well it meets the quota of 'sympthom of a biger problem'. May remove majic, but there would be majic of its own in fs3.
Porbably wong? how so? why do you say that,w hats ur reasoning?
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Yeah maby they did not intend for the star to blow, maby just a accident in a experiment. They did loose many ships. Maby the sathi were really fighting another enemy or soemthing, and needed somethign from the capella star to fight em.
Meh. I still hold true to my beleif, stated in last post tho.
The 'Capella-as-whoopsy' arguement, which not being in any way provably wrong, does remove a bit of the 'magic' from the story though.
Well it meets the quota of 'sympthom of a biger problem'. May remove majic, but there would be majic of its own in fs3.
Porbably wong? how so? why do you say that,w hats ur reasoning?
Provably wrong.
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Thy got tagged.
They couldn't jump out of the system just like that. You need a node from that and they were far away from it when the star blew. A Supernova would destroy EVERYTHING inside a system and then continue expanding, eventually covering dozens ,even hunderds of light years in a nubula.
Or they made some super jump to god-knows-where. Those that were left (more than 4, the camer was showing jsut few saths) were certanly fried.
Or they made an in-system jump to Capella H's vicinity and used nodes around that to escape.
Personally I doubt :v: had the astronomical knowledge to come up with that as a viable explaination but Capella's red dwarfs are 63 light days away from the rest of the system. For all we know the Shivans jump engines may be good enough to reach that far with an in-system jump.
Hell for that matter the GTVA's engines may be good enough. What the limits of an in-system jump are was never actually mentioned.
As far as we know there are no limits and an intra-system subspace jump is near instantaneous.
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:v: is god.............can someone quote petrarch from the cutscene where alpha one actually makes it out alive. I thik that leaving it mysterious makes it all the more enjoyable sometimes.
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At first anyway, but there is some idea flitting about in my head that I don't know what happened afterward and ITS DRIVING ME CRAZY!
That was a little dramatic, but who cares? :D
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As far as we know there are no limits and an intra-system subspace jump is near instantaneous.
I agree but a 63 light day jump might be starting to strain the limits of what is considered an insystem jump :)
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Provably?
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As in can be proved.
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Thy got tagged.
They couldn't jump out of the system just like that. You need a node from that and they were far away from it when the star blew. A Supernova would destroy EVERYTHING inside a system and then continue expanding, eventually covering dozens ,even hunderds of light years in a nubula.
Or they made some super jump to god-knows-where. Those that were left (more than 4, the camer was showing jsut few saths) were certanly fried.
Or they made an in-system jump to Capella H's vicinity and used nodes around that to escape.
Personally I doubt :v: had the astronomical knowledge to come up with that as a viable explaination but Capella's red dwarfs are 63 light days away from the rest of the system. For all we know the Shivans jump engines may be good enough to reach that far with an in-system jump.
Hell for that matter the GTVA's engines may be good enough. What the limits of an in-system jump are was never actually mentioned.
I think we all know that FS2 Capella is not the real world Capella.
And we all seen how fast and how deadly the Supernova blast is. Realistic or not it is canon.
Thus, the Shivans couldn't make it out of the system in time.
Even if the ones that jumped did go for the GD node, they still need time to get into position and actually jump. not to mention that there would be a big line given the size of the Saths.
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As far as we know there are no limits and an intra-system subspace jump is near instantaneous.
There are limits or else they wouldn't be called INTRA system. And exactly how long it takes to make aintra-system jump in nowhere specified. My guess is 30 seconds to a minute, depending on the distance.
Even if hte Saths jump as far away as possible, beyond the edge of hte system, the blast would still get them eventually - it's traveling far faster than the Sath at 24m/s
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I think we all know that FS2 Capella is not the real world Capella.
And we all seen how fast and how deadly the Supernova blast is. Realistic or not it is canon.
Seems like someone is pissed at people using the game is canon argument against him. :p Unfortunately you're wrong.
1. Capella expands the instant the Saths finish doing the glowy thing trick. The saths are quote clearly at least a couple of light minutes away from Capella judging from the size of the star. No matter what the Saths did to Capella it would take several minutes for that to have reached the Saths. Which means that either
a) The artists making the cutscene didn't bother with the speed of light and just made a cool animation.
b) The glowy thing was not the cause of Capella's expansion. It was done AFTER Capella had already gotten bigger and happened to complete at exactly the same time that the light from Capella reached the Saths. Possible but somewhat unlikely.
2. While the explosion appears to expand very rapidly watch the amount of time it takes for the leading edge to travel from one side of the ringed gas giant to the other side. It actually takes several seconds. That explosion can not be moving at high FTL speeds if it takes several seconds to cover that kind of distance.
3. More to the point how the **** do you see an FTL explosion anyway? By the time the light reaches you the explosion has already passed you. So those planets should have started to boil while Capella hadn't even appeared to explode yet instead of when the blast wave hits them.
Again that means that you can either
a) Say that the artists making the cutscene didn't bother with the speed of light and just made a cool animation.
b) Say that the explosion is somehow FTL in how quickly it expands but STL in how quickly it damages anything. :wtf:
4. The supernova destroys the ringed gas giant and then hits the GTVA forces. You can make a rough estimate how far out those gas giants are based on the size of capella. If you're taking the cutscene as an indication of how fast the supernova travels then that means that the Supernova can travel a distance of several thousand million km in seconds. That puts it well above light speed. However from the final mission we know that the supernova also takes about minute to reach the player.
That puts the Vega node pretty damn far out. So far out that for Capella to not be a tiny little dot in the mission it has to have somehow expanded to several hundred times it's real size. While that might explain why ships 6km in size are also visible in the mission against a star millions of kilometres in diameter I don't think anyone is going to take that idea very seriously.
So basically the upshot of this massive preamble is that you can not determine the speed of the supernova from the cutscene because it is neither internally consistant and it contradicts the mission. Sometimes it's faster than light, sometimes slower. Most likely this is simply for the same reason there is a crashed Hades in the intro. The animators just made a cool cutscene and didn't give a damn about the storyline as long is it fit somewhat into what they were doing.
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I aggree, I mean. do people exect mission designers to accurately scale planets, suns and ditances, plus time between supernovae initiations and contact with player based on distance from the star?
It is only a game after all............. :rolleyes:
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It is only a game after all............. :rolleyes:
ONLY A GAME? HOW DARE YOU!
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As far as we know there are no limits and an intra-system subspace jump is near instantaneous.
There are limits or else they wouldn't be called INTRA system. And exactly how long it takes to make aintra-system jump in nowhere specified. My guess is 30 seconds to a minute, depending on the distance.
Even if hte Saths jump as far away as possible, beyond the edge of hte system, the blast would still get them eventually - it's traveling far faster than the Sath at 24m/s
Wait a minute - so you just invented an arbitrary blast speed of an artificially created supernova in an imaginary (by your description) star system, and then invented an arbitrary speed for travel in subspace within said system (contradicting the explicit canon description of 'nearly instantaneous'), and cited that as some sort of proof? :eek:!
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I'm assuming the 24m/s comment was related to the top speed of the Sathanas in normal space. It's actually 25m/s though so I can see why you might be wondering what the hell he was on about :)
Which only goes to show that Trashman had missed my point completely. If the Shivans are capable of jumping futher from the centre of a gravity well than it is quite possible that they could use jump nodes that the GTVA know nothing about since they can't reach them.
This raises an interesting possibility. We've been told that the Shivans can use unstable jump nodes but we never actually see them do that in-game AFAIK. The conclusion that they are using unstable nodes comes from the fact that they can appear in systems where all the stable nodes were blockaded. What if the Shivans aren't using unstable nodes at all though? What if they simply had better in-system jump engines and were able to use stable jump nodes so far from the primary that the GTVA didn't know they existed?
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Whos to say that there aren't nodes that the GTVA cant even detect? also whereabouts in Ross 128 did the shivans eneter space when the pwnd Lieutenant Ash wing Gamma, was it a stable node or did they simply enter gtva space, i assume that if it was a stable node the gtva would have it monitored by at least an alastor......
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Considering that Barnard's Star etc were only discovered after the Great War there isn't really much of a reason to suspect that the Shivans didn't get into Ross 128 via standard nodes really.
It all depends on exactly how newly discovered Laramis actually was.
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Was there a Node near Riviera station?
I remember the einstein wsait, was sent off to explore something (in silent threat i believe?).........
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Considering that Barnard's Star etc were only discovered after the Great War there isn't really much of a reason to suspect that the Shivans didn't get into Ross 128 via standard nodes really.
It all depends on exactly how newly discovered Laramis actually was.
My personal thought is that the GTI knew about it, but who knows
Was there a Node near Riviera station?
I remember the einstein wsait, was sent off to explore something (in silent threat i believe?).........
I'd go and check but I'm away from my computer
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Well, I've always been interested in what sort of effect the destruction of Capella may have had on the local Nodes, something as cataclysmic as that could, using psuedo-science (since Jump Nodes don't actually exist, a little poetic license is allowed) have ripped open more Nodes or strengthened or closed others. Once again, using psuedo science, those Nodes need not neccesarily have opened in Capella either, since subspace around both ends of the tunnels would be affected, and since some of those nodes were too weak for the GTVA to use etc, that could mean more or less anywhere.
The wonderful thing about Subspace is that, really, it's up to the campaign writers to define it, as long as it's not too silly, I love the fact that people have carte blanche to interpret things as they see fit, it's one of the joys of making a FS2 campaign. I guess that's why I'm always a bit cautious when people start rolling out the Canon, as it were ;)
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It all depends on exactly how newly discovered Laramis actually was.
It wasn't newly-discovered, per se. The Command Brief said that it was previously-unexplored, meaning the GTA could have known of its existence and recognized that it had a jump node, but the 14 Year War took priority over investigating fringe systems.
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Formalhaut is a canon system isn't it? And on :v:'s nodemap Formalhaut is colored red, like Gamma Draconis and Capella, which are Shivan-occupied systems (well, not really Capella, since it is at the momet a blazing hot stellar gas field.). I think :v: is implying that the Lucifer came through Formalhaut.
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Formalhaut is a canon system isn't it? And on :v:'s nodemap Formalhaut is colored red, like Gamma Draconis and Capella, which are Shivan-occupied systems (well, not really Capella, since it is at the momet a blazing hot stellar gas field.). I think :v: is implying that the Lucifer came through Formalhaut.
Formalhaut is not on the offical nodemap, ergo is not canon :)
It's unclear if 'red' on the Volition nodemap means 'Shivan' or 'cut off'
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I think :v: is implying that the Lucifer came through Formalhaut.
I'm dont see any shivans there. :P
(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/413/fomalhautring2ru.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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You're 329 years too early :P
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Wait a minute - so you just invented an arbitrary blast speed of an artificially created supernova in an imaginary (by your description) star system, and then invented an arbitrary speed for travel in subspace within said system (contradicting the explicit canon description of 'nearly instantaneous'), and cited that as some sort of proof? :eek:!
I didn't invent anything. The cutscene shows the supernova obliderate two planets within 3 seconds, thus it wouldn't take it long ro reach the edge of the system at that speed.
And how much is "nearly instantanius"? 5 seconds? 10 seconds? 20 seconds? Surely it varries depending on the jump distance (aparently node travel times also vary depending on the system distances)
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I didn't invent anything. The cutscene shows the supernova obliderate two planets within 3 seconds, thus it wouldn't take it long ro reach the edge of the system at that speed.
So in other words you've cherry picked the data you want in order to give you a FTL explosion even though there is as much data pointing out that it's not FTL at all (both in the mission and the cutscenes) and you're insisting that this gives you a true picture of the speed of the supernova rather than simply being due to the fact that the art department probably just wanted to make something that looked cool.
Fine. If you're trying to make this up lets at least quantify how stupid this **** actually is. The Sol - Saturn distance is 1,400 million kilometres. As a rough guess how far out would you say that the ringed planet was from Capella then? Roughly the same distance? Much closer? Much further away?
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I didn't invent anything. The cutscene shows the supernova obliderate two planets within 3 seconds, thus it wouldn't take it long ro reach the edge of the system at that speed.
So in other words you've cherry picked the data you want in order to give you a FTL explosion even though there is as much data pointing out that it's not FTL at all (both in the mission and the cutscenes) and you're insisting that this gives you a true picture of the speed of the supernova rather than simply being due to the fact that the art department probably just wanted to make something that looked cool.
Fine. If you're trying to make this up lets at least quantify how stupid this **** actually is. The Sol - Saturn distance is 1,400 million kilometres. As a rough guess how far out would you say that the ringed planet was from Capella then? Roughly the same distance? Much closer? Much further away?
So..double standards here.. When something from the game goes along with a theroy of yours (regardless how unrealstic, stupd or how likely it is to be a mistake made by [V]) tehn you shout - "But it's canon! It's canon!"
I don't care how wrong the cuscene probably is - it's in the game - it's canon!
And yes, I know that FTL explosions prolly aren't possible in the FS universe, but I don't recall anything from the game - the mission or cutscene in particular that defies the cutscene.
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I didn't invent anything. The cutscene shows the supernova obliderate two planets within 3 seconds, thus it wouldn't take it long ro reach the edge of the system at that speed.
I'll let kara answer that one.....but, remind me, how long does it take to reach the player in the mission?
And how much is "nearly instantanius"? 5 seconds? 10 seconds? 20 seconds? Surely it varries depending on the jump distance (aparently node travel times also vary depending on the system distances)
Why surely? It's totally different to inter-system travel, that's made very clear by the simple fact you can do it in a fighter in FS1. Why not, say, 5 nanoseconds? That's closer to 'nearly instantaneous' in common parlance, I'd say.
So..double standards here.. When something from the game goes along with a theroy of yours (regardless how unrealstic, stupd or how likely it is to be a mistake made by [V]) tehn you shout - "But it's canon! It's canon!"
I don't care how wrong the cuscene probably is - it's in the game - it's canon!
And yes, I know that FTL explosions prolly aren't possible in the FS universe, but I don't recall anything from the game - the mission or cutscene in particular that defies the cutscene.
FTL; Faster Than Light. Now, how exactly would you see something faster than light?
I notice you completely avoided answering the question, launching into some bizarre tangent about how you've been called out trying to make up stuff contradicting the game. Again. :D
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So..double standards here.. When something from the game goes along with a theroy of yours (regardless how unrealstic, stupd or how likely it is to be a mistake made by [V]) tehn you shout - "But it's canon! It's canon!"
What double standard? The animation contradicts ITSELF as to how fast the supernova travels. If you want to shout that the cutscene is canon I can too. The amount of time it takes for the leading edge of the supernova explosion to pass from one side of the ringed planet to the other is roughly the time it would take a shockwave moving at lightspeed. So it's also canon that the shockwave is moving at lightspeed.
I took great pains to point out this fact earlier but you completely ignored it to go off on a rant about how I was ignoring canon. I'm doing nothing of the sort. The cutscene makes it crystal clear that the shockwave is moving both faster than light AND slower than light.
There is a difference between disregarding evidence because I don't like it and disregarding it because it contradicts itself. But you don't care because as I stated in response to your previous comment this is nothing to do with the speed of the Supernova and everything to do with the fact that you think you've found some canon fact I've got wrong with which you can extract some petty little revenge for previous threads.
Which is why you completely disregarded my previous post (Where I had already rebutted any comments you made in this one) and went straight to claiming you'd found a flaw in my logic and that I was discarding canon evidence that the shockwave is FTL.
Absolutely pathetic!
I don't care how wrong the cuscene probably is - it's in the game - it's canon!
Yes. The in game cutscene canonically puts the shockwave at a different speed from the in game cutscene. And also from the final mission. So now we have 3 canon speeds for the shockwave. I'm well within my rights to simply pick whichever one is the most sensible.
And yes, I know that FTL explosions prolly aren't possible in the FS universe, but I don't recall anything from the game - the mission or cutscene in particular that defies the cutscene.
Except all the stuff in my half page post which point out exactly where the game defies a FTL shockwave :rolleyes:
EDIT : And I notice you didn't answer my question about how far out the ringed gas planet actually is. It's a reasonable question. The fact that the supernova reached it in 3 seconds means bugger all if it's 9x10^8 metres away from Capella.
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and this is how you make a storm in a glass of water -___-
i go with the "we wanted to make it big" thing..... if they really wanted to make a cool cutscene, some rules would be broken in the process... besides... we are kinda getting off-topic now....
my thoughts on the sathanas.... they were turned into spacedust :D
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Total vaporisation more likely.
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we are kinda getting off-topic now.
Not really. What the Sathanas fleet did after the supernova started is completely dependant on how long they had to do it after all. :)
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And calm down everyone, I don't want to have to figure out how to lock a thread at this time of night :p
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Here's another (2) questions:
How far away from Capella do you think the Vega node is? I believe there is evidence to support more than one answer.
Also: Do you believe the Vega node is closer to, or farther from, Capella than the ringed planet?
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Well, if you judge by the explosion cutscene (yes I KNOW it is incorrect at certain points) The Vega node was quite a bit farther out than the ringed giant.
That's the only source, unfortunately, that we have. I don't remember seeing a ringed giant in-game (did they even have a ringed planet bitmap?).
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Well, if you judge by the explosion cutscene (yes I KNOW it is incorrect at certain points) The Vega node was quite a bit farther out than the ringed giant.
That's the only source, unfortunately, that we have. I don't remember seeing a ringed giant in-game (did they even have a ringed planet bitmap?).
Actually it's not the only source. Open the mission and look at how big Capella is. Compare that with how big Capella is in the cutscene. The mission is quite clearly taking place closer to Capella than the ringed planet.
The only explaination that really makes sense within canon is that the dual between the two corvettes seen in the ending cutscene is not taking place at the Vega node but elsewhere in the system.
Or you can say that :v: obviously didn't care about these issues and got several things scientifically wrong in the cutscenes and in the final mission because they were concentrating on making things look cool.
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You'd have to be bloody close to Capella, I think, to be able to see the Sathani.......
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Close as in <.1 AU's or closer, and Capella isn't nearly that big in the mission.
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I don't think the size of the mission in FRED is supposed to be accurate, nor is the cutscene, :v: knew their physics was FUBAR, but they didn't care, because frankly, it really doesn't matter, in order to have suspension of dibelief, you need to be willing to not consider physics too carefully.
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Well, if you judge by the explosion cutscene (yes I KNOW it is incorrect at certain points) The Vega node was quite a bit farther out than the ringed giant.
That's the only source, unfortunately, that we have. I don't remember seeing a ringed giant in-game (did they even have a ringed planet bitmap?).
Actually it's not the only source. Open the mission and look at how big Capella is. Compare that with how big Capella is in the cutscene. The mission is quite clearly taking place closer to Capella than the ringed planet.
The only explaination that really makes sense within canon is that the dual between the two corvettes seen in the ending cutscene is not taking place at the Vega node but elsewhere in the system.
Or you can say that :v: obviously didn't care about these issues and got several things scientifically wrong in the cutscenes and in the final mission because they were concentrating on making things look cool.
Well, In the second-last mission, You see the Bastion going into the Jump-node in-game. Then you see a cinematic of it going in AGAIN. Meaning, the cinematics can be repeats. Who said the Moloch and Deimos didnt die at the same time you did? And the cinematic could be showing what happened again.
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I'd buy that but for one flaw.
There's no Moloch in the final mission.
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Suppose the Lemnos killed it before you showed up. :)
And yeah, the cutscene isn't a good source of anything. In the cutscene, the density of Sathanes and the size of Capella imply that the eighty juggernauts were covering a very, very small section of the star. On the other hand, the cbani implies that the Sathanes were surrounding it. For the cutscene to accurately portray the latter, you'd have to have a density so sparse that only one Sathanas would be visible, and a view so close to Capella that the star would appear as a humongous flat plane.
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Could the Shivans have been conducting a test of some sort of new technology of theirs, and they underestimated the power of whatever this new device is, so the end result was losing a bunch of expensive, pointy Sathanas?
Oh and yeah, this is my first post here. So if I've violated any sort of forum etiquite, give me hell about it.
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Hell is not enough, you will pay with your life!
Begin plasma core insertion, gunnery control, open fire:
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3808/welcome2hlpbb4xp.gif) (http://imageshack.us)
Welcome to HLP. Please keep all appendages within the installation at all times. Flamethrowers are located underneath all seats, however, due to the rising cost of oil, the ID / evolution debate (don't debate me on Whether or not there is a debate),V, and the meaning of life, the napalm has been replaced with Holy Water. Plasma rifles are located in the weapons locker, but only Admins,V, or a hyper-intelligent shade of blue have access to these areas. If you meet a Shivan in the ductwork it is most likely Carl, give him your lunch and back away slowly, odds are good you'll be fine. Recommend reading includes Karajorma's Freespace FAQ for general questions, and The Freespace Wiki for specific issues and questions.
17th kill. :)
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Could the Shivans have been conducting a test of some sort of new technology of theirs, and they underestimated the power of whatever this new device is, so the end result was losing a bunch of expensive, pointy Sathanas?
Oh and yeah, this is my first post here. So if I've violated any sort of forum etiquite, give me hell about it.
:p
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What are you :p ing about? His theory or his "etiquette"? ;)
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He posted in my screenshot thread by accident, then Raa found it out, and since it clutters everything up it'll be closed. Sara's was closed a while ago and I was wondering how long it would take before Raa relized he missed mine. :nervous:
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Oh man, yeah, sorry about that. I was looking for this topic (I was reading it on another computer that uses a TV as a monitor so the resoultions all screwed up and it's hard to read) and somehow I ended up posting in there, just a mistake. I tried to get rid of it as fast as I could, so as to not confuse anyone, or project the image of a complete idiot whose never set foot, or finger, in a forum before
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Thats O.K.
I remember when I first registered here I went back all the way back to the last page, and posted in the last topic. :(
Major bumpage :P
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noobs will NOT be tolerated here at HLP.... :p
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Necro Threaddage........ :mad:
I suppose we'll have to start talking about "All those Sathanii" again now.
Point of debate:
Do you believe the Sath fleet was just a small contingent of the shivan whole, Or would it be plausible that it constituted the entire Shivan race?
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I tend to lean toward their being a "small contingent". How much crew would a Sathanas have? About 50,000? Multiply by 80 and you get 4,000,000, which is not a very large number, when talking about a race as a whole. It would mean that the Shivans were on the verge of extinction at Capella, and I don't think any of us got that impression from those missions.
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Necro Threaddage........ :mad:
A full eleven days? Yes, ban him, ban him now! :rolleyes:
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Necro Threaddage........ :mad:
A full eleven days? Yes, ban him, ban him now! :rolleyes:
:shock and dismay:
There i go forgetting the [sarcasm] tags again........:rolleyes:
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And yeah, the cutscene isn't a good source of anything. In the cutscene, the density of Sathanes and the size of Capella imply that the eighty juggernauts were covering a very, very small section of the star. On the other hand, the cbani implies that the Sathanes were surrounding it. For the cutscene to accurately portray the latter, you'd have to have a density so sparse that only one Sathanas would be visible, and a view so close to Capella that the star would appear as a humongous flat plane.
Well, yes and not... if you look carefully, you will se an small green effect, on left side of the star.
And yes, there is not a Moloch at the node, those ships could be part of the last convoy that command tells you, and they never arrived... OR MAYBE, wait... remember the cruiser attaking the Moloch from upside before the start blows? well at the next scene they are not there... who assure you that the blowing of the start dint take more time? what happend if when your are playing the last mission those Sathanas already fire the green thing and take some time to blow up the star? Who know... that aeris attacking the Moloch could be the Sparta...
I like this... Is like the :v: simbol in the Ursa missile bay of the FS1 ending movie :P