Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: aldo_14 on July 17, 2006, 05:00:18 am
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5186614.stm
Many teenage girls see having a baby as a better option than a low-paid "dead-end" job, research has found.
The study, for the Joseph Rowntree Foundation suggested girls as young as 13 choose motherhood to be independent and to create "a loving family".
I can't help but think that 13-22 is a really bad time to be planning exactly what to do with your life. I mean, fair enough, there's nothing wrong with having kids (assuming you can support them), but particularly at the earlier ages of that range, and if it's a response to low job prospects or the like, it seems too likely to lead to a mistake or regrets; essentially the sentiments echoed in the last few paragraphs of the article.
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Indeed. I knew a girl in high school whose only ambition was to have kids one day, but having been brought up in a fairly strict family she never had the freedom to make any "mistakes" (well, none that actually had long term consequences); in the end she qualified as a nurse and is now (afaik) in a rewarding job.
Of course, she did go to the same school as me where almost 70% of graduates went on to Uni; had she been elsewhere (say like the east end of Glasgow) I image the outcome would've been different.
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Its the norm where i live, I am a career guy. I have no plans to even contemplate fertilising a female. But i have a 22 year old brother with a 17 year old skirt whos due in nearly a month.
And i believe save 2 others, i am the only one without a kid living with them (I have a daughter but thats personal situation so no comment)
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:eek2:
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I really didn't need to know that. Any of it. At all. Ever.
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I really didn't need to know that. Any of it. At all. Ever.
And that was a pointless comment, I was offering a view with evidence to back it up, You spammed.........
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Spam? Me? You forget yourself, sir. I was merely pointing out the unsettling nature of your post in a humerous fashion. I really have nothing to add to the greater conversation as I believe the choice is entirely up to them.
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I usually refrain from entering these threads, but I feel compelled to say a few things. Please pardon me if any of it comes off sounding harsh.
In my mind, these young girls are not "choosing motherhood." They are choosing their unrealistic and highly idealized misperception of what life as a single teenage girl with a baby happens to be like.
Don't get me wrong. I am a father, and my wife and I are about to have our second child any day now. Our children have been a wonderfully encriching part of our lives. My wife is now a stay-at-home mom by her own choice, although she is smart enough and talented enough to pursue any career that she may have desired. However, we waited to have children until we were married, committed to each other, and felt that our relationship had enough time to consolidate that we could offer our children a family with a warm and strong marriage at it's core.
In my career, I have seen a lot of these young women, nay, mere girls who have "chosen" motherhood, and I think if most of them really knew what they were getting into, they would certainly think otherwise.
It is sad that in our world young girls are taught to see this as "choosing independence." What they are choosing is most likely a life on wellfare. What they also fail to consider entirely is the situation into which they are bringing the young child.
Becoming a parent should not be a selfish choice, because being a parent requires a degree of unselfishness greater than any other role in life. Parenthood is for adults who are ready to make a committment to the next generation. Parenthood is for mature individuals who are able of conceptualizing what it truly entails. Parenthood is a lifestyle, a highly rewarding one, but one that requires a great deal of focus on someone other than the self.
Having a child to be independent is, quite simply, a total oxymoron! You cannot be "independent" (the vaunted golden idol of many) when you have a small human being that is totally dependent on you for it's very survival.
Independence requires hard work, not mere fertility. And ultimately, independence may be a red herring, because human connection is an innate human need (see all of the research on attachment for an example). Interdependence is necessary and healthy, given that it does not lead to an extreme and fused style of relating to other people.
I feel very sorry for these young girls, for how they have been misguided in this way. However, my deepest sympthies go to their children.
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I agree with you in the main to be honest Sphynx, I am certain a lot of people make this choice with no clue what raising a child actually requires.
I chose never to have children simply because I am in no position to raise them as I would see fit, I don't have the money nor the living space to start raising kids, and even if I did, I'm still far from sure I would want them. Give me a job I can go home from at 5pm and I'm happy, but you can't take a day off from kids ;)
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It is true that there is no vacation from parenthood. :)
And I understand and respect what you are saying, Flipside.
For me, though, I have found that I don't want to take a vacation from parenthood (just like I don't want to take a vacation from my marriage). Sure, my wife and I make sure we have time to date without the kids being present, and we have taken a few small vacations without the kids, and that has been a good thing for us.
I will admit that there are days when I am tired and it is a hard thing to have to be the daddy, but like all of my other meaningful relationships, I find that I don't want to get away from parenthood. In fact, I look forward to coming home to it every day.
That's just been my experience.
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Heh....... it seems almost everyone at my office is awaiting a sprog, nowadays (granted, I am the newest and youngest by a goodly few years). I don't think I know any people who have kids and regret it, but said people can usually afford the time and cost of having a sprog; that is, it's not something that's just caught them out like a 15 year old getting up the duff because she doesn't understand what parenthood is.
Albiet for one guy I went to uni with - he was about 28 when he started 1st year - who had 3 kids. Which sounds kind of nuts, except that a) he absolutely doted on them, and b) he was doing it for their sakes, to get a better paying job etc etc. Really nice guy, he ended up working down south in Oxford area I think.
Which isn't really an answer, is it? :D
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I don't know, aldo, it seemed to be a pretty good answer to me.
I think if we all talk about it and think about it, adults having kids seems to work out pretty well for both parties(as long as said adults aren't abusive, etc).
Kids having kids (and teenagers are still definately kids, even from a strictly biological point of view. In conducive environments, the amount of neurological and cognitive development that occurs between 13 and 20 is astonishing, resulting in qualitatively different thinking), on the other hand, seems to be a recipe for heartbreak and dysfunction.
I think you just noted the antithesis, or perhaps the complementary opposite, of the original topic of the thread. Quite on topic and quite pithy, by my estimation.
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The irony is that the people who weigh up the situation and decide that they shouldn't have children have already revealed themselves to have more of the qualities necessary in a good parent than many of the people who do have one.
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An excellent point. ;)
I agree that becoming a parent requires that sort of sound reasoning. It is a pity that the biological aspects of reproduction function as well as they do in a manner quite independent of reason. It is sad that those who choose to disregard reason, to act senselessly or selfishly still end up having children. Ultimately, in these cases, it is the child who suffers the most.
Is it not also ironic that a dedicated and mature couple that would make excellent parents can spend years of unsuccessfully trying to become pregnant, while a teenager with her head in the clouds can become so with little effort?
It's a funny universe we live in.
Shifting gears here: there's a great book called "The Intentional Family." I'd recommend it to anyone. It addresses how families are much more likely to be happy and well-functioning if they choices they make in relating to each other are intentional and based on solid reflection, rather than just being allowed to occur by happenstance.
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Its the norm where i live, I am a career guy. I have no plans to even contemplate fertilising a female. But i have a 22 year old brother with a 17 year old skirt whos due in nearly a month.
And i believe save 2 others, i am the only one without a kid living with them (I have a daughter but thats personal situation so no comment)
That has to be the funniest thing I've read on here in a while.
Almost as funny as one of my gay friends finding out a fortnight ago that he has a one year-old son by some girl he 'experimented' with. Kudos to him though, at least he's supporting him...
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Hope that's experimented as in "one last hetrosexual fling to see if I'm really gay" rather than "It's alive! ALIVE!!!" ;)
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He might've described himself as straight-curious at that point I think :p
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I think it has to do with a point I've seen made before; after fighting for the right to join the workforce, women have discovered what men have known for centuries: work sucks. :p
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i blame brittney spears. enough girls idolized her before, but now all those girls are going to want to grow up and be white trash.
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You forgot the best part... "And drive around fast food places with baby in the front seat (in lap) no seatbelt.." Way to go Mama Spears..
"Look Baby , you're driving" (Crash!) :hopping:
The Paparazzi should not have published the photos but kept them and just walked up to her and slapped her across the face yelling "Stupid twit, CARSEAT!" And if she complained then use the photos... ;7
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there are gals who get pregnant to get on the welfare system. they dont really want the child as much as a free ride in life. in theese cases the child usually gets neglected or worse. usually such young women keep the father out of the picture. of course the mother will love her baby, thats instinct, but she will still be governed by that selfish desire to avoid working. they will go as far as poking holes in condoms to accomplish this goal. its not hard for a gal to take advantage of the male sex drive. even men who think their practicing safe sex may get an unwanted suprise. i dont mind the welfare system supporting accidental pregnancys, even those caused by teenage stupidity. but i do kind of find malitious use of the system as something that needs to be watched out for and prevented. the fallacy of independance needs to be done away with. society is a system of humans after all. one thing effects all other things. it takes away from less fortunate women who actually need and deserve help from the welfare system. women/children with abusive spouses/fathers, rape victims who chose to have the baby, ect.
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Although my opinion will more than likely change in the upcoming years, but I would rather stay single, and live my life (what little of one I have) without any nagging from wives or children. Plus, I could live with the same (buyable) luxries as a family that earns $10,000 a year more than me.
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Crazy crazy bastards...
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I want to have kids someday, but want to ensure I'm in the right position, financially, emotionally, and relationship wise before I do so. I do believe in some planning, but I also like to think its good to keep some magic in things and have a few surprises every now and then. :)
The irony is that a couple of century's ago I know of 17 year olds marrying 13 year old wives and starting familys. Obviously life expectancy was much shorter back then. People living to their 30's or 40's at most. Simple health problems that are cured easily today killed many people back then as well.
It's just interesting how with prolonged life, society's views of maturity, marriage, and procreation change.
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It's just interesting how with prolonged life, society's views of maturity, marriage, and procreation change.
it wont be too long before we go the way of numenor...
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Hehehe perhaps. ;)
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The irony is that the people who weigh up the situation and decide that they shouldn't have children have already revealed themselves to have more of the qualities necessary in a good parent than many of the people who do have one.
As mentioned in another thread somewhere, the species is comprised of those who procreate.
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It's just interesting how with prolonged life, society's views of maturity, marriage, and procreation change.
it wont be too long before we go the way of numenor...
You leave those Silmarils alone you naughty man, I don't care if your Dad made them
I think longer life would affect our outlook, because we would see things that happen so slowly we normally find it convenient to ignore them. Things like Evolution would be hard to deny if you had living memory of actual species diverging etc. It'd be hard to say things like 'Isn't it odd that the moon is the same size optically as the Sun', because it would become apparent over the course of several thousand years that it is only now that it is the same optical size, during the times of Ancient Egypt, it was slightly bigger, and soon it will be slightly smaller, since the moon is receding from us. Maybe a little more experience of how the world is changing right under our own feet would do us some good.
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there are gals who get pregnant to get on the welfare system. they dont really want the child as much as a free ride in life.
bull**** - there is a 5 year lifetime maximum on benefits, and you will almost certainly not get them in one straight swoop (IE most of the welfare programs require you atleast try to get a job and can show that you're trying otherwise they'll boot your ass) - infact this entire BULL**** talking point has been dispelled by the simple known facts of the usage pattern.
sure there are some people who manage to cheat the system - but there are NOT girls getting pregnant just to "live on welfare"
infact "living on welfare" you would be making less than a minimum wage job
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Raising children in todays world isn`t cheap, it cost lots of money, and takes a lot of free time to raise them..
Me and my wife raised 3, they have grown and are now on there own... :p
We now enjoy watchin our grandson, Aden, he can say and do the funniest things sometimes. :lol:
In all, its sad to see teens raising kids, they have there hole lifes ahead of them, babies should come later in life
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Although my opinion will more than likely change in the upcoming years, but I would rather stay single, and live my life (what little of one I have) without any nagging from wives or children. Plus, I could live with the same (buyable) luxries as a family that earns $10,000 a year more than me.
Not sure how much older/younger you are than me but I'm living the wooking stooge/single life thing and I find it entirely unfulfilling. Its only been a year that I've been out of school now mind you and I'm probably rushing things in my mind but man are things boring. Not that I'm saying that I should go and have a kid right now to make it interesting...thats not what I mean at all. Just that working towards that eventual goal would be nice to get started and spend some time working on it.
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Well, the actual working on it is always fun ;)
Seriously though, theres no rush at all, get out and see some world and enjoy your life before taking on responsiblities that tie you down. Kids are rewarding, but make sure you have your own life before creating any more ;)
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Well, the actual working on it is always fun ;)
Seriously though, theres no rush at all, get out and see some world and enjoy your life before taking on responsiblities that tie you down. Kids are rewarding, but make sure you have your own life before creating any more ;)
Aye. Do some travelling. Go on exotic holidays etc. Who knows, you may meet someone along the way anywho. :)
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Of course, some people don't wait till teenager-hood (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/5205760.stm)
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i blame brittney spears. enough girls idolized her before, but now all those girls are going to want to grow up and be white trash.
I blame her and people like her for the same reason.