Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Einstine909 on July 21, 2006, 03:18:36 pm
-
i came up with this playing around with particle systems
(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7933/bluebeambd2.th.jpg) (http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bluebeambd2.jpg)
i can do any beam colour with it
and they can be animated
any crits welcome ;)
-
Wow, I really like your textures. The original textures are looking unreal to me, but yours is a very nice texture :nod:
Greetings
Beli
Edit: Could you make a screenshot to see the new textures in action? ;)
-
thanks i havent got them in the game yet
how so do relpace the textures anyway?
-
Erm.... I don't know :nervous:
Please ask the modders here in the forum ;)
Greetings
Beli
-
ill just find the names of the beam textures in the vp's
-
Are you going to make a bunch of diff ones and then release at same time?
BTW I need diff colors of firework animations, for... Official functions...
l8tr!
-
thats exacty what im going to do
:P
and what colors do u want your "official" fireworks in ;7
-
Oooo goody..
Blue, red, yellow, white, and green should be sufficient?
Found a missile that did it once and from spawning subach lasers the doppler effect started red and ended up blue nice, too bad I never figured out how to do other colors easily...
(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5030/ohthepain0gw.jpg)
-
ill get to the fireworks after the beams. don't wory that should be soon
more questions hehe :drevil:
where do i put the textures?
what do i call them,still and animated?
what size should they be?
oh and i need a vp compiler. i did searches on VPMage QuickVP but cant find the download
-
VpMage links have been down for a while (I told the mods to fix it!). As of yet i have been unable to find new links. I'e heard, in the meantime, that VP Constructor Suite works fairly well.
-
Admins, mods.. feel free to remove the link if its 'illegal' but here goes
VPMage (http://koti.mbnet.fi/vekkup/VPMage.exe)
And put the beam textures to data/effects and use still images. File name shouldnt be extremely long. Always make graphics files in 'powers of two'.
-
thanks
i ment preformance wise for the image(not too big for the renderer)
also can't the beams be an eff tex? :confused:
-
A few people like me use PCX only for now... (I convert DDS to PCX, don't laugh. 3.6 was the only SCP build I ever got to work reliably with mods, so that's what I build with.)
-
ok i think i got it :blah:
i have to go into the weapons.tbl, delete the section of the beam until there is only one and replace its tex name with mine...hopfully...
now do i have to repack the vp or put the tbl in some folder... i remember doing somthing like that in the retail... but the folder isnt there :wtf:
-
so i rebuilt the root_fs2 vp to use my textures but fs2 wont start up now. :wtf: and yes i did backup that file just in case so i will be able to play if this dosnt work
but i took out every single file and replaced the weapons.tbl with the one i made and rebuilt it using VPMage, the hierarcies are the same
why wont it work? :hopping:
all i did was take out the extra segments out of the ultra anti fighter beam untill one was left and replaced the tex name with mine!!!
so if any one can lend a hand on this one... the reward will be the screenshots...
-
I'd just plop a beamz-wep.tbm with the required texture-change in the data/tables folder and leave the weapons.tbl alone.
If you have FS2 SCP that is.....
-
Yeah.. Tampering with retail vp files is not a good idea. And neither is adjusting the mediavp sets, or even mods. It is generally best to stick with creating new or edited content directly to the mod folder or creating totally new vp files.
That is you can create a new weapons.tbl file to the data/tables directory instead of rebuilding vp files
-
so just put it into the data folder?
like this: C:\Games\FreeSpace2\data
and how do u make a .tbm file or is that on the wiki?
-
Put the new weapons.tbl (or beamz-wep.tbm) to C:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\tables (or infact more preferably to C:\Games\FreeSpace2\my_mod\data\tables). To create a -wep.tbm just create a new empty text file named <something>-wep.tbm. Then open it with for example notepad or other such editor (avoid MS word) and edit it like it was weapons.tbl but add only the parts you want to add or change.
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Modular_Tables
<something>-wep.tbm
#Primary Weapons
$Name: <insert weapon name here>
<add all the things you want to add or change>
$Name: <insert another weapon name here>
<add all the things you want to add or change>
#End
If you use the -wep.tbm with beams you have to be carefull. That is if you havent set +Index: of the beam section that you are modifying. That is if you wont define the index (in other words the number of the beamsection to be edited) the game assumes you just want to add a new section to the beam instead of editing already existing one.
-
:D *sniff* I'm so proud, bless the little guys,
<proud dad voice> They're modding, They're modding<proud dad voice>
Best noobs ever ! :pimp: :yes:
-
An in-game shot would be nice. If it looks good, I'll put it into the MediaVP. ;)
-
thank guys :P
i am working on a tbm now
now do the textures have to be repeating on the left\right side?
the texturees can be animated-should they be a .eff or a ANI?
DeBrain: that would be great! ;)
um...well im going keep working until its done
opinion question: should i have differant patterns for differant species? it wouldnt be that hard...
tbm question:
so if i only wanted one section in the beams how would i delete the others using a .tbm?
-
now do the textures have to be repeating on the left\right side?
That is sort of required if you plan to use the tile factor and/or translational effects or it will look very odd
the texturees can be animated-should they be a .eff or a ANI?
I tested this just recently and answer is.. yes (both .eff and ani function)
opinion question: should i have differant patterns for differant species? it wouldnt be that hard...
IMO... yes
tbm question:
so if i only wanted one section in the beams how would i delete the others using a .tbm?
You can't remove them.. Use new weapons.tbl to create a weapon without them or alternatively use tbms and beamsections to set their width values to 0 so that despite them still being there they wont actually show up at all.
Also it seems like that unless tile factors are defined beam textures will be streched over the whole lenght of the beam.
-
k that helped :yes:
so how do i enable tileing :confused:
and if i make a vp with my textures in it will it automaticly find it or will i have to declare it in the tbm? i dont plan on deleting the old beam textures so my tex names will be blueadv, greenadv and so on
-
I'm pretty sure you need to tell the weapons which texture to use in the weapons.tbl, and if said texture is in the VP it'll find it.
-
ok i modified the effects-wep.tbm in the mv-effects.vp to use my texture. i put my texture in with the modified tbm back into the vp. :yes:
then i checked the vp with VPViewer lite and my changes and my files are in there :yes:
now i go on to test them in game, it starts the game so i procede to the mission...it loads... :yes:
to be continued later...
jk
but when the beam shoots it is only bigger and a bit diferant its not using my tex :no:
i put the texture a 256 x 256 pcx image on 8 bit in the vp and replaced the textuers in the effects-wep.tbm but it won't work
any ideas?
-
:doubt: Why did you edit the vp file?...
Yeah.. Tampering with retail vp files is not a good idea. And neither is adjusting the mediavp sets, or even mods. It is generally best to stick with creating new or edited content directly to the mod folder or creating totally new vp files.
That is you can create a new weapons.tbl file to the data/tables directory instead of rebuilding vp files
Oh well... can you post the relevant table entry that you used for the beam? And you dont have to use 8-bit PCX textures.. you can also use 24-bit TGAs as well.
-
well u see i tried to put the tbm in the tables folder but it wouldent recognize the tex
-
do you have -jpgtga as a flag in your "cmdline_fso.cfg" file?
-
$Name: ULTRA Anti-Fighter Beam
+nocreate
$BeamInfo:
+Muzzleglow: beamglow8
$Section:
+Index: 0
+Width: 0.0
$Section:
+Index: 1
+Width: 0.0
$Section:
+Index: 2
+Texture: beam-blueadv
and yes the beam-blueadv is in the effects folder in the vp
i also tried it with the first index starting at 1
-
Did you remember to put the normal table start data there too?
Like so:
#Primary Weapons
...
<insert the table data here>
...
#End
-
yes i just replaced the part in the effects-wep.tbm with mine so...
and at one point i got the beam to dissapere...
-
I think your efx-wep.tbm is conflicting with the mediavps mv_effects-wep.tbm.
Thats what used to happen to me, until I found out about it and 'modified' it. :)
Its in the mv_core.vp.
-
uh...no its not in the mv_core :confused:
-
Why dont you just toss the tbms and effects to data/<something> directories?
I tested this just few minutes ago and it worked as advertised
beamzz-wep.tbm
#Primary Weapons
$Name: STBeamHS
+nocreate
$BeamInfo:
+Muzzleglow: beamglow5
$Section:
+Index: 0
+Width: 22.5
+Texture: ancient_beam
+RGBA Inner: 255 255 255 255
+RGBA Outer: 150 150 150 10
+Flicker: 0.1
+Zadd: 2.0
$Section:
+Index: 1
+Width: 100.0
$Section:
+Index: 2
+Width: 0.0
#End
In mymod/data/tables directory.. I never add anything to VP files
-
ok so i am missing a few folders :wtf:
im guessing i need to put the beam texs in the effects folder? cuz i had to add the tables folder
-
yeah.. to effects
-
k so i did that now i relize all along the beams look like the first line of my texture repeated
also the middle seemes to be missing...
-
uh...no its not in the mv_core :confused:
Whoops! I meant to say mv_effects.
Sorry! *hits self*
-
I GOT IT!!! :P
(http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/8645/screen0005ub0.th.jpg) (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen0005ub0.jpg)
finaly...
now off to fix the tileing and make the others...
oh and the tex seems to be off, the blue in the middle shouldn't be there: my bad thats the two gunpoints fireing at once
-
and saved as a tga...
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1579/screen0006pv6.th.jpg) (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen0006pv6.jpg)
i am working on the others
-
so to keep u all waiting i decided to finish them all before showing them off :p... well its eaiser for me...
but it will be soon...
-
Hey Einstine909,
Are you working on a campaign, or just effects for now?
reason I ask is that there may be some beams I'd liek animated, I know of at least one. It's a form of lightning I will be getting the files together in the future and while on its own it probably wouldn't look right, but when combined with another beam (like the ones with 2-3 entries) I would like to see the results in game.
Would you be interested in trying them out for the new builds? I will try it for the mods I am making now but 1.) they might now work at all, and 2.) I can't use DDS, EFF, I can only use 8bit PCX ani files (for now)
Eventually I would like to get to a point when I get enough finished that it would be worth getting all my projects updated to work with the newest build and if other like the effects they of course are free to use them independant of my timeframe.
-
Getter Robo G: just effects ;7 ... and yes i would be interested, oh and your fireworks are next...
oh and i need a place to host the vp, it is functional :) and it is only 2.3 mb
and does anyone know of a DDS batch file editor or a plug-in for GIMP -- i need to convert a lot(more than 200) of files from DDS to somthing GIMP can edit and back
no coments on the beams :(
-
Try ATI's The Compressonator. It's a pretty good batch converter. You can get it from the developer site on ATI.com
-
and does anyone know of a DDS batch file editor or a plug-in for GIMP -- i need to convert a lot(more than 200) of files from DDS to somthing GIMP can edit and back
Don't go back and forth, only convert to DDS when you have finalized the effect. It's easier than trying to mess around with mipmap layers, and you avoid the increasing quality degradation when you recompressed data that has already been compressed before. And also be sure not to start out with PCX, especially extracted ANI frames, since those things have horrible color quality and you can easily see it in the compressed effect.
For converting to DDS just use the command line nvDXT tool from NVIDIA. The newest version (out for a while now) has excellent compression quality (using -quality_highest), the best I've seen yet in any DDS utility. And it can do it's thing on a directory full of files at once so that takes care of your batch conversion issue.
-
http://www.filefactory.com/file/83bbd1/ (http://www.filefactory.com/file/83bbd1/) -- download my beams here ;7 ( 2.03mb)
any one can use them for anything( mabey even the hlpbb welcome baner), just mention i made them :P
and previews:
(http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1368/screen0007xx0.th.jpg) (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen0007xx0.jpg)
(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6794/screen0008ox0.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen0008ox0.jpg)
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/6187/screen0009ek3.th.jpg) (http://img190.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen0009ek3.jpg)
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3461/screen0010em2.th.jpg) (http://img190.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen0010em2.jpg)
more updates will follow... eventualy
-
To be honest I think the old ones looked better.
Use gradients, noise effects and dodge / burn layers, right now they seem sort'a... bi-tonned
-
well they are a gradient... but as a ipo curve in the RBGA values in the particles lifetime...i did these in 3d
i have then all gausiean sampled at 5x and 10y so the paticles get smothed in...
but anyway thanks for the crits :) i need them...
-
Good start anyway :yes:
-
My 2 cents worth. Your beams have a couple of issues I think. 1. There isn't enough color varitions within the beams, just white and whatever color. For green you should have some yellow, whitish centers, then some yellow to green. Red with some orange etc. 2. Your particles in the beams are only on the edges not throughout the beam. Adding more particles within would help, also see above reason would help with the monotone color. 3 The outer most edge (particles) doesn't fade enough and is pretty obvious next to or over another color, looks ok when over black space.
-
well i maxed out on particles... its more than u think, around a billon or so... like i said its the blur...
-
well how about these... :nervous:
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/4063/screen0012rb3.th.jpg) (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen0012rb3.jpg)
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1880/screen0015ru4.th.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen0015ru4.jpg)
this better?
-
Ooo I like that red one...
Something touched on but not elaborated was the edges... People might like them better if the beams don't seem so "soft". If possible can you make the outer edges (only) hard or solid looking like usual beams? Am I stating this correctly?
As is it may be the particles give the beam a "furry" or "fuzzy" look, but that's just my observation.
-
anything you can do about the black edges?
They look rather ugly.
Other than the black edges, the beams look really nice!
-
yes i am currently working on those edges
they are, well... :mad: the black...is intersting to try to get rid of...
-
The type of beams your working on look like they would go better with a star trek mod than fs2. These beams are cool looking, but they don't show off the ferocity and brilliantness and sheer awesomeness that makes you **** your pants when you fly too close to them.
-
i got rid of the black, and changed things around...
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6200/screen0021uu7.th.jpg) (http://img191.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen0021uu7.jpg)
is this good? :nervous:
-
Very very COOL!!!
-
holy **** :eek:
these are Amazing
-
They just dont seem to be FS beams, actually they remind me of beams of Shadow Battlecrabs on B5.
-
You seem to be using the alpha channel...
Looks nice, but it's still too opaque. Try to make the beam fade out smoothly to the edges using the alpha channel.
-
or use JPG or 24bit TGAs instead.
-
Maybe still screens don't do them justice, but i'm not too impressed. They look a little... hyper for my tastes.
-
Hmm... I would make the center (smooth) red section much stronger and use various beam settings to get it drawn 'over' the other beam sections... and that combined with some translational settings for the 'edge' graphics.
-
or use JPG or 24bit TGAs instead.
I think the opacity is a wanted effect, but it's too much...
And additive blended beam + and alpha blended beam might look pretty awesome.
-
well ill save the ones now for the people that like them now and continue to work on them
-
As much as I aplaud changing little things like this, shouldn't changes be for the better? No offense but it looks way too over done.
-
Opinion based on screenies only.
Pro's:
-transparency
-creative freedom
Cons:
-they don't look like Freespace beams. Explanation on "why?" follows.
Why don't they look like FS beams?
I don't know if that's just the red beam, but it's way too dim. Further more, the transparent parts are way too separate from the colourful parts. Much more subtle transition needs to be introduced.
I also don't think any part of the beam should be completely transparent. Opaque would be better term, like some already stated.
Also I think that when you made the black parts transparent, the edge of the beam stayed too sharply defined. You can see colourful thin parts that were formerly between the black flecks are now protruding from the "core" of the beam, making a sharp straight line as an outer edge of the beam.
I suggest you save these for version [insert number here] and edit these further. Lessen the contrast, make the beam brighter in overall and make the transparent parts only partially transparent. In my opinion, these changes could make the beam look more like FS2 beam, but not completely.
Also, I haven't seen the beam in action (this PC doesn't run latest graphical goods properly at all), so I'm judging it solely on screenshot basis. It might be very different in-game.
On the other hand, The Babylon Project might be very interested in the progress of the work. They already do bear strong resemblance to the Shadow beams, as someone pointed out.
-
havent posted in awhile...
but i am still working on the beams
right now i am ripping the beams' centers out and putting them in there own pics
so instead of being one part it will have sections
also brightning them... each individualy :mad:
and the transparent parts should be what color instead? :confused:
-
Well... I was thinking of something along these lines:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/beam_draft.png)
EDIT: Or perhaps like this. (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/beam_draft_5.png)
This was a quick draft, and it's simple to make. The idea is that you preserve some transparency so that the intensity steadily grows inwards and at the core there is non-transparent, white bar of energy.
I put some uniform noise clouds into a selection, then coloured it green and made black transparent colour, and so the stars were visible through the now green cloud, which is visible at the edges of the beam... Then I put a white-black blilinear gradient on top of it, meddled a bit with brightness and contrast, then changed the black to transparent, and this was the result. This is how I would imagine the (FS2) beams to be - more or less. ;7
-
The first one looks far better. :nod:
-
I agree. The first one was better in overall of those two... however, I did some experimenting and ended up with these:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/Terran_beam_1.png)
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/Shivan_Beam_4.png)
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/Vasudan_beam_1.png)
For some reason, the Vasudan beam became teh best of these ones. Possible reason is that it's easier to colour correctly, while the yellow colour has two colour components (red and green)... while the other beams only have one component - green for terran, red for shican and blue for AA-beam...
Now, if only I could figure a way to get these babies in-game and animated... ;) I'll see if I can come up with correct method. First, I'll read through this thread again. Tomorrow, that is.
-
Wow those look great. :nod:
-
Looks good, now much better than the standard ones... and I know I'm nitpicking... could you just change the hue of the Shivan beam to be a little more red?
-
What's wrong with nitpicking? ;7 We all want perfection (to varying extent).
More red Shivan beam... That's the real trick, isn't it? You see.. I've got a pretty well configured gamma settings on my Windows installation, so I don't see same as you do. My windows shows mid tones way darker than on default settings, so that beam looks quite good... unfortunaltely, normal screen settings show
a. much more and dimmer stars (which was not meant to be) and
b. the beam quite a bit lighter.
On red beam the effect is most notable.
Now I'm running on my Ubuntu (because of some weird networking problems my Windows freezes the connections quite often right now), and on this system it indeed shows the beams much more pale, or less vividly coloured, than on my Windows.
Set up the monitor the same way I have it, and the Shivan beam is more red.
Bah. Anyway - perhaps these things should be worked with default monitor and gamma settings so that those thousands who never bother to actually configure their screen colours would see the pictures like I would like them to... :p
The Vassie beam works best, currently. It doesn't seem to change that much under different gamma conditions, most likely because it's brightest of the lot by default. I'll see what I can do to the Shivan beam in particular...
EDIT: Here is, again, the Shivan beam - this time it hopefully looks better on that end... 8)
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/Shivan_Beam_5.png)
-
Much better... I love them all now :yes2::yes:
...Now I'm running on my Ubuntu...
Yeay!! :yes: (sorry, legally required to make a fool of myself every time a Linux distribution is mentioned.)
One more nitpick though.. the Terran and old Shivan beams seem to have white halos around the colored outer edge... was this intended? (I figure if this is going to replace the original effects it'd better look perfect)
-
Heh...
What can you do, my Windows just doesn't seem to work as well at the moment... :D
Anyway, the white halos were not intended to be. They are remainders of a technique I first used, but I managed to circumvent it in the later ones. To be more technical, I used a 20 pixel selection softener to blend out the edges of the uniform clouds. Unfortunately, that also caused the gray cloud to bleed some amound around the selection, and later when I changed black colour of that selection transparent, the gray area around the selection was not black as it should've been, and... Well, whatever. I've got the technique pretty well figured out now, I can do this kind of beam in, say, 5 minutes with GIMP.
Now the big question. While these pictures of beams are entertaining enough, I would *sure* want to see them in-game. Just some things to clarify:
-are there some single files that I could replace with these? I only seem to find some *.ani files from adveffects VP, which contain animated beam textures...
-how do I make ANI files? I've heard of an ANI builder... does it come with Descent Manager package, or do I have to... aquire it from somewhere else?
-if there is some still picture beam "texture" that I can replace with these, I'll do so just to give it a quick test, how it looks and so on. But anyone can see that this beam style would not work very well unless it was animated... the flaming edges of the beam NEED to move. Though using the still texture could still give awesome screen shots, I would value the beams more if they looked good in-game, too.
Help appreciated, it would fasten up things quite a bit.
-
Skip .ani files (poor quality and waste memory) and use .eff files to create animations.. That is make animation frames as normal and name them aniname_0000... aniname_0010, where 0000 to 0010 is the framenumber. All files need to be of same type (.jpg, .tga, or .dds). Then create a textfile named aniname.eff that consists of
$Type: DDS
$Frames: 11
$FPS: 25
Where type needs to match the filetype used for the ani (not very suprising), followed with number of frames (in example that would be 11) and finally the frames per second value.
Though you can 'animate' beam textures with still images using tile factor and translation option in the $BeamInfo: (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapons.tbl#.24BeamInfo:).
-
Been confused about movign beams for over two years... From those entries i THINK i got a small clue...
IS the tile factor dependant on beam TYPE??? meaning number has to be 0-4? Like if I last typed 60 (something) expecting it to fly vicked fast and it just sat there I shouldn;t be surprised yes? (more explination is needed in regards to what values stand for is actually do)...
Never heard of the negative thing for translation before.. Will try that sometime.
-
Tile factor should not be dependant of the beam type... However note that it requires 2 values. Second one determines what the first one means. And it is only used to set the lenght of the tiles. To get them moving you still need translation value.
-
I replaced Sred with the latest Shivan beam pic (5), even after making it darker.. the center bits are unseen and the edges are clssic ray not the flaming particle look... wonder why.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Did you use tile factor?
As if you didnt the texture gets streched over the lenght of the whole beam (30 000 m i think). That is all detail will be lost. And even worse.. if the beam hits anything its lenght will be suddently much shorter resulting in odd transformations in the beam texture if it hits anything
-
Also remember that currently there is black and starry background in the picture I posted. I'm currently making 11 frames of each beam type (Terran, Vasudan, Shivan, white and AAA beams)...
These beams will have opacity (transparent background) into them, so they will (hopefully) look in-game almost the same as that latest Shivan beam picture looks like...
Though I'll need to boot to Windows, grab the weapons.tbl file and then extract relevant beam weapons from therein, and then somehow edit them to use the new EFF animation...
W'll see what comes out of this... :D
EDIT: I'm sorry if you feel I've stolen your project, Einstine... didn't intend to do that. :nervous: I just found a way to create good looking beamz in GIMP and I can't let this chance to learn something new pass by...
-
You know I was hoping that the new beam texutres would match the power-up .ani. Because whenever I see a Shivan beam power up, the center is orange-ish with the red outside, but when the beam fires it looks purple-ish pink. It kind of made Shivan beams look screwey.
-
I'll take a look into that, but I won't promise anything.
Oh, here's a crappy GIF version of animated Vasudan beam...
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/vasudan_beam.gif)
It should give you an idea of how the beams will look like... of course there are more colours in the real pics.
By the way, how big should the textures be? Or rather - what is "too big"? Currently they are 1024x256 pixels big... :shaking:
-
It looks like something from a FPS game... But good nonetheless. :D
Most of the Volition textures are about 15 pixels. So that's a little big... Then again, the SCP beams are about a million times bigger. :nervous:
-
Well, whaddayaknow...
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/EatThisBelisarius.jpg)
:nod:
Seems to be working quite well... I might increase the tiling factor for some amount, however.
Anyway, I'd say that texture works pretty well. :cool:
-
:( (tears of joy)
That is... beautiful.
Now do Shivie beams!!! :mad2:
-
Wanna VP these up for us when you're done, Herra ? These are nice.
-
Sure... when I get the table sorted out.
I'm having little trouble with BFRed. It wants to stubbornly use the white textures, even though I've defined it to use shivan-beam... :blah: I'll probably get it done soon enough.
-
Okay, here's some new material...
Who could tell me, why BFRed stubbornly wants to use beam-white2 -texture? Even if I put
$Name: BFRed
+nocreate
$BeamInfo:
+Muzzleglow: beamglow4
$Section:
+Index: 0
+Width: 165
+Texture: shivan-beam
+RGBA Inner: 0 0 0 0
+RGBA Outer: 0 0 0 0
+Flicker: 0.1
+Zadd: 2.0
+Tile Factor: 33, 1
$Section:
+Index: 1
+Width: 0.0
$Section:
+Index: 2
+Width: 0.0
$Section:
+Index: 3
+Width: 0.0
$Section:
+Index: 4
+Width: 0.0
into the beamz-wep.tbm, it STILL wants to use the beam-white2 texture... I had to copy the shivan-beam textures and rename them to act as beam-white2... then it uses that texture and appears red. :confused: :shaking:
Anyway, I've got pretty much all beams covered, except Mjölnir beam cannons... Here be screenies!
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/AAA-Beam_thumb.jpg) (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/AAA-Beam.jpg)(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/BFGreen_1_thumb.jpg) (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/BFGreen_1.jpg)
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/BFRed&BFGreen_thumb.jpg) (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/BFRed&BFGreen.jpg)(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/BFRed_2_thumb.jpg) (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/BFRed_2.jpg)
First, there's a Shivan AAA beam. Then there's BFReds and BFGreens. High Noon was the mission.
Own comments:
-the shivan-beam texture seems to suffer from lack of brightness in-game.
-the tile factors still need to be adjusted - currently they are a bit too small, I reckon.
-I suppose the violet appearance of that AAA beam is mostly because of the red haze in the screen.
-Whenever a beam equipped with these textures hits something, the texture stops too abruptly and destroys the illusion of a round bar of energy, if you look too carefully.
I'll experiment tomorrow with some kind of center part into the beam, though this already works surprisingly well.
I'm open for suggestions.
-
These are ACE ! You've got to rush a beta version of them out so we can test them in-game; beams are always hard to tell from screenshots alone.
-
IIRC... Its the multiple sections and the +Zadd: values that create the illusion of 'round' beams.
-
Get some variation on those beams plz. The shivan beams look just the same as the vasudan and terran beams. Shivan beams are as alien to terran beams as they are to vasudan beams. These beams all look exactly the same. Another thing is that they don't quite look no where near as menacing as and bright and brilliant as the current ones in the vp's.
The redone beams here do look completely awesome for a vasudan beam(much better than the particle effect). But, the vasudan beam looks flat. As well as the others(that's why the beams in current vp's are awesome because they have that really sweet active time variation going on). After that, get some lighting for those beams.
-
to be clear : I hate the beams in the current vps and I don't use them. The animation looks totally fake and unreal.
-
I wouldn't say that any beam effects are "real" because if all of the energy is moving towards the enemy ship... why do you see it?
Anyway, I would use a filter or script to add "waves" to the beams and use it to better define the difference between the species.
Like my custom welcome beam... only less cartoonish.
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3749/welcomevp5.png)
-
Ok FYI I made the beam darker already from my original post (meaning took blue and green down 1/4 and messed with contrast) this has not changed! The only change I made this time was tile factor of 38 as 32 seemed too streatched out to me...
This is what the Shivan_beam_5 looks like on my comp now:
[EDIT]: It's HIS texture he posted.. He mentioned his monitor settings and I'm just screwing around, It's NOT MINE! :D
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Lol, how many people are making beam textures ? Looks good Robo.
There are 3 different people with 3 different beam textures in one thread. I suggest starting your own beam texture thread so it's easier to keep track of..
-
Here be modified beamz version 1.0 (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/modified_beamz/mv_beamz.7z). Try them out and throw in suggestions, I'll see what I can do.
-The beams now have a bright center part beneath the animated texture that makes sure that the center part is light enough.
-The animations have a different FPS; shivan-beam is the slowest at 18 FPS, terran-beam is the fastest at 25 fps and vasudan-beam is somewhere in between by 20 FPS.
-Also, the Tile factors are different. Shivan beams' tile factor is greatest and Terran beams' tile factor is smallest, and again the Vassies are in between.
EDIt: Ookay... :wtf: They don't work on my Ubuntu version of FS2_Open... :(
Or they *do*, but not like on Windows. The texture shows thinner and therre seems to be another, thin white texture that goes around the beam...
However, this is just a version 1.0 and suggestions are taken. If many people like, say, the Vasudan beam more like it was in the first of screenies, I'll make it so. That's just a table change, however. When we get the effect(s) more to our liking, I'll put together another VP file.
Anyway, I post here the current beamz-wep.tbm (in txt form, because the attachment system doesn't allow *.bm's, to enable those willing to try out different values with these textures. The differences are quite remarkable when you change, say, the Tile factor...
Enjoy! :p
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
That shivan beam looks a lot nicer than what it was in the beginning of this thread. That one is cool. But still, for beams, give them a little more distinction than just color differentiation. Like the shivan beams should look really super refined, and the terran and vasudan beams no where near as refined because it's still a new technology for the gtva. That's what was like so cool about the beams in the current vp set. Terran beams in the current vp set looked really unrefined like they were in the stone age compared to advanced shivan beams.
-
Hey I'm using your modified beams and I like them, but keep on improving them ! I'll use version 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 alpha 4 :)
One thing that I saw tho - A deimos cruiser using a red beam... that didn't strike me as being correct.
The shivan main beams look really good with this effect.
-
Okay, thanks for feedback.
It looks to me as if some beams just *want* to use the texture called beam-white2.*
I have no ide why this is, but at least BFRed does this. I tested the beams practically only in Surrender, Belisarius! and High Noon, so I've not seen all of the beams.
As I told earlier, the BFRed stubbornly refused to use the texture I told it to use (called shivan-beam.*), and instead it used that mentioned beam-white2.* effect, which was originally gray/silver/white - whatever. So, I hoped that the BFRed would be the only one of its kind and promptly I copied the shivan-beam.* effect and renamed it to be beam-white2.* ...
Now the situation is that effect named "beam-white2.*" is equal to shivan-beam. And if there are other "stubborn" beams that don't want to behave as they are told to behave and also use the beam-white2.*, they too appear red.
It seems like we have to define WHY some of the beams want to use beam-white2.* instead of the effect pointed to them... So, BFRed is one of these. What are the Deimos' beams called? LTerShlash or TerSlash?
Well, here's the table entry for BFRed as it is now... Can you see from that why BFRed wants to use beam-white2.* instead of shivan-beam.*? I suppose that if we can find out why this happens, I can fix the other similar errors too.
#Primary Weapons
//Other entries
$Name: BFRed
+nocreate
$BeamInfo:
+Muzzleglow: beamglow4
$Section:
+Index: 0
+Width: 165
+Texture: shivan-beam
+RGBA Inner: 0 0 0 0
+RGBA Outer: 0 0 0 0
+Flicker: 0.1
+Zadd: 2.0
+Tile Factor: 33.0, 1
$Section:
+Index: 1
+Width: 50.0
+RGBA Inner: 255 255 255 0
+RGBA Outer: 0 0 0 0
+Flicker: 0.1
+Zadd: 1.0
$Section:
+Index: 2
+Width: 0.0
$Section:
+Index: 3
+Width: 0.0
$Section:
+Index: 4
+Width: 0.0
//Other entries
#End
It should use shivan-beam, but it doesn't, for some reason. :confused:
-
If you are using mediavps you ought to notice that they are full of *-wep.tbm files. Among these (in mv_effects.vp) you can find file named mv_effects-wep.tbm. As this file loads after your beamz-wep.tbm file it simply overrides your the stuff you have written to your tbm.
Also (IMO) you really ought to use several beam sections. For example use still pic with flickering (perhaps 0.2 & Zadd 0) to create the 'background' for the effect, then use animated section (Zadd 1.0 or so) to create movement or some such and finally again slightly flickering (hmm.. 0.1 & Zadd 2.0) still pic of the 'solid white beam core'
-
I thought about it.
The thing is that I have already constructed the animations so that they consist of three layers: there's a "bottom" layer indeed, then there is a bilinear gradient beam core, and on top of that there is one more layer that puts some... disturbances over the beam core.
Beneath this texture layer is, though, a simple white layer positioned behind the beam's brightest part. This should ensure that the beams look bright white at the center even when they are viewed agains dark background.
Of course I *could* make an animation for the bottom layer, still texture for the light bar around it, and a second animation for the third texture, but that would just use twice as much space and memory, and the effect would be initially same-looking.
I'll check what I need to edit in mv_effects-wep.tbm... that must be the cause for erratic behaviour in this case. Thanks.
-
::)
Also (IMO) you really ought to use several beam sections. For example use still pic with flickering (perhaps 0.2 & Zadd 0) to create the 'background' for the effect, then use animated section (Zadd 1.0 or so) to create movement or some such and finally again slightly flickering (hmm.. 0.1 & Zadd 2.0) still pic of the 'solid white beam core'
What i mean is that you really ought to use multiple beam sections (with still pics) in addition to your animated section with the Zadd values to enhance the illusion of 3d beam.
-
Okay, let's consider: ;)
-If I put a still image beneath the animated texture, it'll not show itself very much if at all, because the animated section is on top of it.
-If I put a still image on top of the animation, it partially hides the animation, which already has three layers to boot with, embedded into animation frames.
Though, a still image behind the animation might take care of some of the brightness issues. I can try, but I don't see how it would increase the 3D impression very much.
--> to test... :p
-
Modified Beamz v1.1 (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/modified_beamz/mv_beamz.7z)
Some changes to beam styles, though they are still not completely finalized.
On my PC, the beams - particularly terran beams - become somehow... "cut" into pieces when you move your viewpoint along the normal of a beam... anyone else getting this?
-
Nice fixes, and quickly ! Alright. Upgraded, really loving these textures.
One thing i noticed with the Shivan beams is as you move along the viewpoint of the beam the center part becomes super bright and then fades back again, which i think adds alot to the realism of the beam. I'm pretty excited to see what would happen to the way these beams look once the pixel shader code gets added... one of the only problems now is the sharp clipping with bright objects, which a bloom shader does a lot to soften and minimize and make look more realistic.
I think these beams are great because they add detail and differential while still keeping the whole "freespace 2" feel.
-
Hey, you've got a problem with your 1.1 file. You've removed too much of the beam-white I believe, because the Shivan beams look all wrong now. If you intended them to look like that, it looks really bad and I think you should go back to what it looked like before. I think you're going to have to add some of the files back and make it a 1.2 release.
Another thing you should really really consider is making these huge TGA files DDS files with nvdxt, which saves memory and looks the same (uncompressed DDS). You hould use the quality_highest flag during conversion.
-
Curious. They shouldn't look that much different than on v1.0 :confused:
The beam-white2.* files are the only ones that are away... they are completely unnecessary ATM, because none of these beams uses them. The beam-white2.* files in the 1.0 were the exact same, but renamed files as the shivan-beam.* files.
Can you post a screenshot of how the Shivan beam looks like on your installation? Or otherwise, can you describe what you think is wrong, other than it looks terrible? :p
I did notice something else weird too today... some Shivan craft were using the retail subspace vortex animations. But that shouldn't have anything to do with these beams, no? :nervous:
Oh, and I haven't had much luck getting nvdxt to work... I rather use GIMP's DDS plugin. I'll give it a look tomorrow after a Java exam... :ick:
-
if the beam-white eff and tga's are removed, the beams look like this with 1.1 :
http://www.badongo.com/pic/264864
http://www.badongo.com/pic/264865
If i put the beamwhite eff and tga back into the vp from the 1.0 release while keeping your new 1.1 tables, problem is solved.
-
Now I know what is faulty... it's me working with unfamiliar program called VPMage.
I'll just update the v1.1 to have a correct VP file inside it... :snipe: Fix on the way.
-
Be careful with VPMage... i've seen it corrupt files... use vpview instead...
Beams 1.1a coming up i guess ! :)
The only problem i can see so far is that with the textures you get that weird effect sometimes that looks fake when the beam hits an object and it just sort of ends. I assume that with some pixel shading bloom that effect will be reduced. We'll see, there was supposed to be a test build for it by now that hasn't materialized.
-
Yeah, here be the
Modified Beamz v1.15 (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/modified_beamz/mv_beamz.7z)
It's basically just an error fix, but includes also minimal table tweaks, particularly for AAA beams which sometimes look a bit too grainy since they are so thin. I increased their tiling factor by ten, we'll see what happens to them. I hope this solves the problems.
I tried converting the textures to DDS with GIMP plugin, with quite horrendous results. It looked much the same as the animated GIF beam I posted earlier. Sharp edges and all. *brr*
BTW, isn't VPView just for viewing? I thought you couldn't build VP files with it.
Tomorrow I'll install nvDXT and try if it does any better. Probably does, we'll see about it.
------> sleep.
-
you are right about vpview. I've had problems with vpmage for certain tho, it was killing alpha channels on dds files for me. Not sure what a good editor is someone really needs to build one. Maybe i'll whip up a .net vp editor if i can get some info on the vp file structure themselves.
nvdxt should work well, you don't have to use any compression if you use the u8888 mode... so it shouldn't affect quality but it should save some memory.
-
Sorry to be the bearer of such bad news : Version 1.15 doesn't work correctly either.
In order to see the beams the way they are supposed to look with 1.15, i need the old table from 1.1 and I need the beamwhite eff and tgas. Otherwise the texure is missing it looks similar to just regular beams.
-
Okay. It seems that FS2 doesn't like my VP solution.
It apparently doesn't want to override the actual mv_effects-wep.tbm located in the mv_effects.vp. That file defines several beams, and when the game utilizes those beams, it still works by the original table.
There's two solutions to this:
Either put the edited mv_effects-wep.tbm into mediavp/data/tables directory, that will override the same named file in the mv_effects.vp
Another solution is to put the mv_beamz.vp into its own directory and put in that directory also a mod.ini like this:
[multimod]
primarylist = ;
secondrylist = ,mediavp368zeta;
That will use the mediaVP's as secondary mod, and the tables in mv_beamz.vp work as primary tables, and the beams work like they should.
I will upload a v1.2 soon, containing updated installation directions and possibly also the tables so that if someone wants to use the VP file from mediaVP directory, he or she doesn't need to grab VPView in order to extract the necessary table from the VP...
-
Ooh... These beams just made me want to make BoE missions again. ;)
-
Those beams don't look right to me at all - far too dull. If you have white cores then they should be at maximum brightness. The idea of the originals, to me, is that the light from the core of the beam is so bright that the eye (or cockpit display) can only see it as blindingly white. The falloff corona looks red or green or whatever because the energy level isn't as high on the outer edges of the beam and so doesn't blind you.
-
Those beams don't look right to me at all - far too dull. If you have white cores then they should be at maximum brightness. The idea of the originals, to me, is that the light from the core of the beam is so bright that the eye (or cockpit display) can only see it as blindingly white. The falloff corona looks red or green or whatever because the energy level isn't as high on the outer edges of the beam and so doesn't blind you.
I have to agree... these beams, if you look at the individual images, look better than the oringinals, but in-game these beams just don't look as good... I am no effects artist, so I can't say why, but hopefully it's something fairly easily fixed.
-
Those beams don't look right to me at all - far too dull. If you have white cores then they should be at maximum brightness. The idea of the originals, to me, is that the light from the core of the beam is so bright that the eye (or cockpit display) can only see it as blindingly white. The falloff corona looks red or green or whatever because the energy level isn't as high on the outer edges of the beam and so doesn't blind you.
...Own comments:
-the shivan-beam texture seems to suffer from lack of brightness in-game.
-the tile factors still need to be adjusted - currently they are a bit too small, I reckon.
-I suppose the violet appearance of that AAA beam is mostly because of the red haze in the screen.
-Whenever a beam equipped with these textures hits something, the texture stops too abruptly and destroys the illusion of a round bar of energy, if you look too carefully.
I agree, the core brightness problem was and is most prominant in the Shivan Beam, but it was to some extent a problem to other beams as well.
To me it looks like for some reason, there would still be transparency even in the middle of the beam texture's white part, which is an unwanted effect, as it makes the beam look far too dim in some situations. Currently it's fixed with some duct tape as a temporary solution (I roughly dubbed a non-transparent white bulk behind the beam so that the dark space can't make the actual texture more dim), but it still needs some work, which I unfortunately don't quite have right now. I'll have some time to play with this perhaps on Monday...
I'm planning to also match the beam edge colours to existing beam-flash animations.
Other thing needing work to be done to it BADLY is the effect which happens when the beam hits something. One possibility would be to expand the hit area's explosion animation, which would hopefully cover the exact spot where the beam hits... :nervous:
As I said, it needs work to be done with it. I might end up doing two sets of animation frames per picture, even if it doubles the memory used and the amount of files to be downloaded, but it might work better.
Thanks for critique anyway, even though I had already figured those things mostly out It's good that people agree with my own perceptions of beams.
Oh, and the reason why I wouldn't want the center of the beam be completely white is as follows:
I think the pilots' eyes would be burned into their holes if there wasn't some kind of fastly adaptive filter in the cockpit glass/helmet visor. This filter practically has to dim the beam to viewable brightness levels, much the same way a welder's visor makes it possible to look at sun.
Well, there are brightness differences in the surface of the Sun. We call them sun spots, as they appear dark on the surface when we view them through a telescope with a filter in it.
However, they are not actually much dimmer than the other areas of surface. The reason why we see them dimmer is that eye is an adaptive optic instrument, it adapts to existing brightness differences and applies a "contrast filter", if you like, to separate the small differences and magnify them. This operation takes place in the back of the brains, in the visual cortex.
I believe much the same thing would happen with FS beams. However bright they are, there's bound to be some brightness differences even in the core, and human visual cortex makes them visible much like sun spots.
Regardless, the white areas should actually be white, not just some bright degree of gray but instead as white as the monitor can produce.
-
Hey yeah, i was messing around with fs2 so far with the mediavps, and to say the least, the only cool stuff from dab's beams would the more sane version, and only in that the most powerful beams look sweet, the beam flares are awesome, and the gtva AAA beams are perfecto. However, when it comes to more minor beams and shivan AAA beams, they look like string cheese when swiping across a hull. I've never seen that affect so bad before, but now i see why someone is at work and producing new beams at a pretty fast rate i might add. ;)
Can't wait to see these get finished, they're much better than what was started with the looked like a star trek phaser beams in the beginning.
Anyway, something that occured to me that you could do which no one else has done before from what i've seen(and would definitely fix the effect when a beam hits something).
(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8800/screen0030mq0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Case and point right here, see where the lysander and actium are swiping their beams across the hull of a nebula camoflaged rakshasa. That's a pretty awesome affect with the superheated trailing explosion thingy. You know how when you have a blow torch and hold it up to metal(primitive beam cannon), when the flame comes in contact with the metal, it not only heats up, in this case it's about what the flame does...it spreads itself across the surface of the metal.
Like this
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2079/33lj1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
I was thinking that beams could use a similar upgrade especially since they are plasma based in fiction. Among the superheated swiping explosions across a hull, you should create a good beam plasma hit spread affect like the blow torch here (and of course have it with the existing trailing explosions). Because right now with this screenshot i'm showing here, there's really awesome beam warm up and firing flares and glows, then after a beam hits a capship hull well there's only the trailing explosions. Anyway, your beams really are starting out to look like they'd be an awesome alternative to dab's beams. But definitely look into that blowtorch spreading out example i showed you, that'd be an awesome hit affect, and something the beams have been waiting for a long time, and a great way to solve your beam hit affect(i take it your also tackling the making the beams not look flat thing).
-
-Whenever a beam equipped with these textures hits something, the texture stops too abruptly and destroys the illusion of a round bar of energy, if you look too carefully.
It's because you are using the new alpha blending mode (with real alpha), but since beams aren't sorted properly yet they don't always blend with the rest of the textures/effects. You probably need to switch to the old alpha blend mode (black == transparent) and that should solve the blending issue, and perhaps your Shivan beam brightness problem too.
Switching to the old alpha blend mode in Gimp is easy: make sure that black is your background color (in main toolbox window), then just go to "Image->Flatten Image", which will get rid of the alpha layer and replace it with a black background. Save the file, and your done.
-
Okay, I will try that.
*realizes he has to copy all image files to backup location, go through all the 33+3 image files, copy them into black background file, Flatten Image, save as new image* :sigh:
Btw...how does the game engine know which alpha blending to use? :shaking: Does it read some value in the file, which tells it which blending system to use?
However, the "abrupt ending" issue sometimes also happens so that the middle of the beam somthing gets in the way of it, say, a Sathanas' claw. The beam stops at the distance of the hitting point, and then it sees like it ends up in empty space. So that there is the rectangular edge of the texture visible against empty space, if you get my meaning. So, a bigger hit effect (at minimum the width of the beam) would be very very useful to conceal this glitch.
That hit effect S-99 posted looks ace. Is it something publicly available? If it is, where do I get it?
-
*realizes he has to copy all image files to backup location, go through all the 33+3 image files, copy them into black background file, Flatten Image, save as new image* :sigh:
You don't have to copy them to a black background, just make sure that your background color is black, via the color selector in the main tool window. The default is black on white, so just hit the little arrow there to swap them and that's it. Then you just have to flatten the image and Gimp will do the rest of the work for you.
So, just open all of the images that you wish to change, then swap the foreground/background color. Then for each image just do: "Flatten Image", Ctrl-S (to save), Ctrl-W (to close). It takes all of 2 seconds. :)
Btw...how does the game engine know which alpha blending to use? :shaking: Does it read some value in the file, which tells it which blending system to use?
If the image is 32-bit then it has an alpha channel, so it uses the new alpha blend mode. If it's 24-bit it has no alpha channel, so it uses the old alpha blend mode. If you don't use alpha you can make the files DXT1c too, which uses a lot less memory.
However, the "abrupt ending" issue sometimes also happens so that the middle of the beam somthing gets in the way of it, say, a Sathanas' claw. The beam stops at the distance of the hitting point, and then it sees like it ends up in empty space. So that there is the rectangular edge of the texture visible against empty space, if you get my meaning. So, a bigger hit effect (at minimum the width of the beam) would be very very useful to conceal this glitch.
The hit effect/explosion is there to cover up the edge, but since the effects aren't sorted the beam can't blend in with the explosion so it can show in front of it instead of being covered by it. That's why you want to use the old alpha blend mode, it should hide the edge properly.
-
...Excactly where in GIMP is this "Flatten"? All I can found is "Semi-Flatten", which does not work as wanted. Using "Semi-Flatten" gives me this:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/Oh_Joy.jpg)
...behold, now it has the dreaded Black Edges (TM) andit still doesn't blend into the explosion. :sigh:
Oh, and to complicate things bit more my GIMP is Finnish as is my computer, so the tools might have different names.
On "Taso -> Läpinäkyvyys" [Layer -> Transparency] there are 8 entries:
-Lisää alfakanaca [Add Alpha Channel] - This option is unselectable.
-Kynnysarvo: [Threshold:] - I think this option enables to set colours under certain value to be transparent...
-Semi-Flatten [Semi-Flatten] - This gives the above (unwanted) results, and I guess this is not the Flatten we're talking about... :p
-Väri -> Alfa... [Colour -> Alpha] - Lets you choose a colour to be alpha channel.
The rest four are definitely not what are needed here, so I won't list them here.
My GIMP is version 2.2.10... where in the menus do I find this "Flatten"?
Another option is that I'm doing something horribly wrong. Either way, I don't think that's a wanted effect in that picture... :shaking:
-
Semi-Flatten doesn't discard the alpha layer, which is what you have to do to get rid of the black edges. "Flatten Image" is in the "Image" menu, directly under "Merge Visible Layers...".
-
That beam needs to be like a lot brighter, but that's like obviously in the process from last page.
I don't have any hit effects. Besides blowtorch for example hit affect hit here :p (http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2079/33lj1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
It was like imagine the blow torch as a beam, and look how the blow torch spreads out on the surface of the metal.
The beams need some type of hit effect. All beams since retail up to dab's, don't have a single hit affect except for the trailing explosion stuff. The few things i know about making such an effect. The spread out effect obviously wouldn't have to be 3d. A 2d spread out like affect always being at the end of the beam if it hits something. And especially if it's a slasher, then it just go along the hull of a ship with the beam.
-
Okay, I got it.
It was very confusingly named in Finnish translation of GIMP... it was "Yhdistä kuva", which is basically like "Merge image", so I didn't consider it to be "Flatten" in English...
Anyway, the problem with low brightness was still there when I used the animation as only texture... I fixored this again by duct-tape solution, as I simply put a separate, non-transparent white bar under the animation. Unfortunately, this bar seems to destroy some of the details that should be on top of the center bar.
As I earier explained, I think it shouldn't be completely white, it should rather have some less brighter detail onto it... but we're definitely closing solutions here.
Also, the animation detail is not visible enough in-game; I may yet have to do something to it, and certainly I'll stll experiment to find good-looking table vallues for flicker values for the beams.
Anyway, here's some screens of what the beams look now after taylor kindly told where to find that pesky Flatten button... :lol:
Here's how it looks right now, with current settings:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/Sathans_Going_Down_small.jpg) (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/Sathans_Going_Down.jpg)
As I said, earlier it had more detail. But I'd still call it progress. It looks better now.
What I think is the biggest problem is that the animation frames are completely randomized work and they are played at quite a fast rate, so the "animation" looks more like "vibration"... It's a bit too fast; it creates fabulous screenshots but alas, in-game it's less apparent.
Perhaps I should make the animations from scratch and this time make them actually contain some fading, strengthening and mocing parts... Protuberances and flares on Sun might give good inspiration. Unfortunately that'll take some time. Oh well.
I will post these beams as a new version perhaps tomorrow, now I must get some sleep, I'm getting nauseous at staring in the screen...
...no, I haven't been making beams, I've been coding with Java, some quite annoying homework of a programming course. I had to get some missions done before today, and indeed managed to do it, but it takes its toll...
To adapt Nietsche:
If you stare too long into the Screen, the Screen stares back at you."
-
That beam is awesome. I need to get the gimp myself, i did pass a course in adobe photoshop. I'll see if i can make some type spread out 2d thing.
-
version 2.0 time ? ;)
-
Yeah, i got the gimp port 2.0 for windows. I know how to use the program, but honest to god, a hit affect for a plasma beam would look better as an animation.
-
Okay, I've got something for you all to think about and post your opinion about the matter before I release next version - or I might end up releasing two tables that make a difference...
I can easily make the beam very very bright, as in the last screenshots. But the problem is, that most of the detail - except ultimate edges - is gone if I do that.
On the other hand, I can make the beam more detailed. In this case, however, when there are great distances involved - like in High Noon - the beams gradually became more transparent and appear weaker.
I first thought that it was the texture being too dim, because I only looked at the hit point of the beam, that being more of a concern in that phase. Then I took a look at the starting point of the same beams - and near the beam cannons the beam was much brighter!
So. I want your opinions of this matter. We all know that the beams do weaken on distance. So perhaps this thing with getting "more transparent" is not as bad a thing as it might sound like? In cases like High Noon it's probably most apparent, because the distance sare like 10 clicks or something like that. In more sane distances the beams probably don't fade out as much as in that mission. After all, it's just natural that the beams are weaker at greater distances.
Or, it can be kept as it was in the last screenies; that way it will stay bright all the way to the target.
Or I could come up with some kind of a compromise between these two. So that at the beginning the beam is very bright - save for the ultimate edges - and the pure white area gradually gets thinner. It might be possible to get this option, though it would be the most complex of these three options.
Anyway. I'll experiment with these options today and post some screenshots later, but you need to already think about these options. After deciding which of these three options works the best, I'll release version 2.0... I'll jump over the remaining 1.x versions because the jump from proper alpha blending to old alpha blending is quite massive, and in overall the beams work much better now.
-
And here come screenshots.
Basically, what I think is going on is that at the distances involved in High Noon, the beams start to fade out a bit too early.
All beams do fade out, but usually the distances in the missions are small enought that the fading is not too apparent. I'd like to know if there is a way to alter the "fade factor" of the high-range beams, so that they don't look too transparent at the point when they hit? Because I think that's the main problem right now. Otherwise the beams work great, and the only problem is that the textures fade a bit too quickly for the beams used in, say, High Noon to look good.
It's easy to make the beams brighter. Much brighter... the trouble is rather that if I do that, they lose too much of their detail and the center core becomes too visible. And, of course, lower-range beams look just fine.
Extreme range beams used in High Noon look a bit strange, however. I think the pictures tell better what I'm talking about. These are how the beams look like in current setup:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/TooMuchFadingExample_thumb.jpg) (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/TooMuchFadingExample.jpg)
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/TooMuchFadingExample_2_thumb.jpg) (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/TooMuchFadingExample_2.jpg)
But lower range weapons, such as Vasudan beam, look just fine:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/VasudanBeamExample_thumb.jpg) (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/screenshots/VasudanBeamExample.jpg)
So, I'd like to know if it's possible to adjust long-range beam fading to little less on part of the longest range beams in the game. Specifically at least, BFRed, BFGreen, and LRBGreen need to be adjusted a bit.
-
That is odd as hell. I'd go for the brighter ones if you don't find out how to fix that transparent thing anytime.
-
so this died huh ? A shame..
-
No, it hasn't died.
My school began, and last time I had some free time I wanted to learn modeling, so I did so. :nervous:
I just don't really feel tempted to put together more half-assed beta releases. You can download the latest one and play around with table values anytime you want. :D I'll probably put some time into this as soon as I get aome spare time again... which is probably tomorrow.
The problem remains the same, though - very long beams start fading away way to soon of I use only one texture - and if I use multiple textures, it loses much of the detail.
If you compare the difference between huge range beams in High Noon and shorter range beam used in Surrender, Belisarius!... I'm sure You can see the problem. It might also be related to the fact that yellow colour is by default brighter than red or green, because it uses both red and green colours of a pixel. That makes it brighter or "thicker". But, as I said, I'll put some time into this some day during this week... but that also means you won't be getting the GTF <Insert Name> (my modeling attempt) ready anytime soon. :drevil:
-
Oooo... shiny....
Nice beams, I am so using those.
-
Okay, the fading of the LBFGreen and BFRed (most apparent in High Noon) is definitely distance-dependant feature.
In most cases, the beams work just fine - problems with transparency only appear due distance.
I have now completed a re-make of the animated textures, and I'll just have to fiddle the table values onto correct, good looking state. That might take some time. While you're waiting enthusiastically, I show you what the new animations look - roughly.
Basically what I did was to merge two frames and thus create a new frame that makes the transition from frame #1 to frame #3 (old frame #2) notably smoother. This is what the Vasudan beam looks like, in GIF animation... ;)
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/modified_beamz/animated_vasudan_beam_small.gif)
Terran:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/modified_beamz/animated_terran_beam_small.gif)
Shivan:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/modified_beamz/animated_shivan_beam_small.gif)
...and AAA:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/modified_beamz/animated_aaa_beam_small.gif)
In *.eff animation files, I tried to create more diversity by altering frame rates and stuff like that. The AAA beams have the fastest FPS, then Terran beam, then Shivan beam, and Vasudan beam is the slowest FPS of the animations.
Also, I might end up having to release low and high textures... the terran beam consists of 33 frames in 1024*256 size. Otheres are only 22 frames, but it's still pretty much. My computer doesn't slow down at all, though, but someone's might...
By the way, I just found out how to boost my overall FPS quite a bit.
I disabled VSync from the launcher, but turned VSync on in NVidia control panel only. It had been on "Application-controlled". Now I can easily use 4xAA, and 8xS AA doesn't drop the FPS too low either... Conclusion: The VSync function selectable via Launcher doesn't give optimal results at least on my computer.
Updates will follow later in the evening, or alternatively during weekend.
-
Rahhtid rude boy star. These beamZ is dope, you need to bash out a white beam for the S/E london crew,
Respec' to the gangsta' G , Herra Tohtori.
(http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9218/771558632skn5xm0.gif) < Beams = Very nice>
-
:drevil:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/modified_beamz/BetterBeamz_2_small.jpg) (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/modified_beamz/BetterBeamz_2.jpg)
...I'd pretty much say the distance-fading is no longer a problem.
I'm only going to make BFRed, BFGreen and LRBGreen this bright, however. The rest of the bunch are usually not used in that long range anyway, and they are not even as energetic as the hugest beams. And they generally look better that way, so... ;7
I'm building and uploading a version 2.0 VP package soon.
-
...Okay, how do I convert the files into DDS format with nvDXT so that they remain flattened?
It stubbornly wants to put black edges onto the frames, something we don't actually need.
...And should the files be in DXT3 or DXT5 format?
Regardless, here be the latest beam release(s). In TGA format, since DDS is being cranky with me again.
High resolution beam textures (1024x256) (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/modified_beamz/mv_beamz_HIGH.7z): 16 MB download,
Medium resolution beam textures (512x128) (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/modified_beamz/mv_beamz_MEDIUM.7z): 5.8 MB download.
Version 2.1a/b will have textures converted to DDS, if I can make it happen.
Test different situations, different beams and different ranges. Please tell if some beams behave strangely or anything like that, because I haven't seen them all. I just watched at some beams, marked which values fit for them and then approximated corresponding values to other beams of same colour (obvious exception being the three long-range beams; BFRed, LRBGreen and BFGreen, which differ slightly from other beams).
I can't make the beams better without feedback to tell me what you prefer. :nod:
-
...Okay, how do I convert the files into DDS format with nvDXT so that they remain flattened?
They do remain flattened. Or do you mean mipmap layers? You need to use mipmaps so that it looks and performs better, especially on the higher resolution ones.
It stubbornly wants to put black edges onto the frames, something we don't actually need.
But don't they already have black edges? Guess I'm not sure whay you are referring to, unless...
...And should the files be in DXT3 or DXT5 format?
DXT1c. The images don't need an alpha channel, so you don't need to use a format which includes one. If you do then it won't blend the images correctly since that's how it tells what blending mode to use, whether it has an alpha channel or not.
-
Thanks for reminder. :D
Drastic decreases in download sizes... Good thing, 'cause I already got announced about reaching my public disk space quota... :nervous:
Links are same as in last post, I just updated the files. If someone would like the TGA files instead of these, PM me and I'll mail them or something.
Version 2.1a - High resolution beam textures (1024x256) (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/modified_beamz/mv_beamz_HIGH.7z): 3.9 MB download,
Version 2.1b - Medium resolution beam textures (512x128) (http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/modified_beamz/mv_beamz_MEDIUM.7z): 1.1 MB download.
-
Do mipmaps function properly with (tiled) beams? As atleast with missile trails the mipmaps caused the trail to become very ugly - sort of generated clearly visible sections into it... Though it has been a while since i last tested that.
-
As atleast with missile trails the mipmaps caused the trail to become very ugly - sort of generated clearly visible sections into it... Though it has been a while since i last tested that.
It actually depends on the trail, but I haven't figured out why yet. It is very obvious when it's wrong though. It has a lot to do with the angle you are viewing from however (ie, a very oblique angle), so in general it should never be a problem for beams.
-
Not bad, but the Greens could stand to be a bit more crazy, and the Reds a little more stable.
-
Well, I had the excact opposite in my mind... :)
Let me explain.
I think it's clear that the Shivan beams are technically most advanced of these beams. They most likely have the greatest energy density.
Physically, greater energy density means more things can and will happen. Direct comparision would be thermal energy - put more thermal energy in gas container and the particles get more speed, the pressure rises or if possible, the gas expands.
Terran and Vasudan beams most likely have smaller energy densities into them than Shivan beams. That's why I deducted that the Shivan beams should "live" a bit more than Terran and Vasudan ones.
It is not impossible that I have incorrect table values for some beams as leftovers from earlier editions. I haven't seen all the beams in action, I'm just guessing what would look good based on other beams, their factors and width, and convert them with corresponding factor depending on width.
;)
Thanks for feedback, though.
-
Installed and tested... I likes! :D
-
my time for sugestions :)
make the center(white) and other colors into differant animations, then use the Zadd and layers in the beams to create depth. also in my opinion they need some more color, just a little to much white to look like freespace. oh and to get that "live" effect have the red layer flux alot
-
great !
-
Well, I had the excact opposite in my mind... :)
Let me explain.
I think it's clear that the Shivan beams are technically most advanced of these beams. They most likely have the greatest energy density.
Physically, greater energy density means more things can and will happen. Direct comparision would be thermal energy - put more thermal energy in gas container and the particles get more speed, the pressure rises or if possible, the gas expands.
Terran and Vasudan beams most likely have smaller energy densities into them than Shivan beams. That's why I deducted that the Shivan beams should "live" a bit more than Terran and Vasudan ones.
Ah, I see where you're coming from. Still, i'm going to be anal and say that the very retail beams denote an inherent instability in the confinement of Terran & [to a lesser extent] Vasudan beams, and a steady confinement for the Shivan variety. Obviously, it doesn't really matter which way, but I wonder if it would be possible to have both versions - that is; both G- & Y-beams unstable and R-beams stable, and vice versa - if there's not too much work involved that is. ;)
-
Not really, since the animations themselves are very much alike - they've just been hued and otherwise slightly edited to have a slightly different appearance.
The main factor in here is the $Flicker factor in tables. It would be easy to release optional table and, for example, embed it into the release along with script files that could be used to change file names of currently active and disabled table, thus creating an option. It wouldn't be too much of a problem.
I'll see how it turns out.
Of course there's also the fact that currently the terran beam has 32 (or 33) frames, while shivan and vasudan beams have 22 frames. So, naturally the terran beam is the least "flickerish" as of now. Increasing amount of frames for Shivan beam would largely reduce "wildness" of the Shivan beam.
It wouldn't be too much trouble to make another, 32-frame set for shivan and vasudan beams... it would result in slightly bigger DL sizes, though.
Have you spotted any anomalies such as some beams having visibly abnormal tile factor, either too sparse or too dense, or mistyped section widths that would be probable in a work like this? I haven't yet met any 70 metres wide AAA beams, have you met anything like that?
I'm just asking because I really don't have time to properly playtest the tables after every change.
But I'm glad if you like my work, and I appreciate the feedback. :nod:
-
I must say that I think I enjoy these new beams. They are cool looking, but similar enough to the original beams that it doesn't look like anything's really been changed, just improved.