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Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Inferno => Topic started by: Snail on July 30, 2006, 04:48:43 pm

Title: Nanojumping
Post by: Snail on July 30, 2006, 04:48:43 pm
After playing the Nemesis mission for the third time, I was wondering, is the Nemesis the only ship that can nanojump? Because if all ships could nanojump then there's not much point in escort missions since the freighters could go right to the node and jump. I was also wondering why nanojumps are concidered new, since it could may as well be a small (nano) intra system jump. So if the Nemesis is the only ship that can do it, why? And do you still use nanojumping in INF SCP? Despite the above I always thought it was cool, to say the least. :D (I hope I don't get burnt for THIS too  :nervous: )
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Woomeister on July 30, 2006, 05:12:12 pm
Nanojumping requires overloading the engines and is only used when it really is needed.

It hasn't been used in INF SCP, don't know if it will be at a later date.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: SadisticSid on July 30, 2006, 05:35:26 pm
I'd like to be able to explain the mechanics for nanojumping, but subspace isn't a very well documented area of the FS universe.

As I've thought of it, a nanojump over a minute distance (1-1000km) requires intense computation from a navigation system and a specially adapted subspace drive that can output the same amount of power used in an intrasystem jump, but in a fraction of the time. For large vessels like destroyers, the energy for the jump must be pre-charged into a capacitor for tactical use. Recharging takes the same amount of time as a regular ship's subspace drive, so it can't be used continuously.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Dark Hunter on July 30, 2006, 08:18:39 pm
Perhaps for an explanation as to why ships jump in so far away from jump nodes... is it possible that the jump node "twists" subspace so that intrasystem jumps can't be performed? Kinda like what happened to the Psamtik (I think it was the Psamtik anyway) when it tried to jump to Knossos Portal #2 in the Shivan Nebula?
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Darius on July 31, 2006, 12:10:33 am
So this thread now contains enough information for someone to write a tech database entry on nanojumping, if there wasn't one previously? :yes:
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Dark Hunter on July 31, 2006, 12:34:03 am
:shrugs:

Sure, nanojumping is fanon anyway, so people can say whatever they want about how it works.  :P
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on August 09, 2006, 01:54:23 pm
Perhaps for an explanation as to why ships jump in so far away from jump nodes... is it possible that the jump node "twists" subspace so that intrasystem jumps can't be performed? Kinda like what happened to the Psamtik (I think it was the Psamtik anyway) when it tried to jump to Knossos Portal #2 in the Shivan Nebula?

If ships the player has to escort jump 100 meters from a node,the mission will finish inless than 20 secs.FS is a game,do not forget this.Even in a film,where suspence is needed,jumping close to the node...well....

Those teories about nanojumping are pretty different to the one I've elaborated....
A nanojump is,to my opinion,an easy jump every ship can made but no one tried it.I think that jumping some clicks away from the original position requires less energy than jump to another system located LIGHT YEARS deep in space. What changes between a normal jump?The orientation!
1)Originally I thought the Nemesis and that destroyer In Sol:A History first jumped to another location and then returned to the designated battle area...
2)I think now that instead of going straight,a ship makes a menevuer in subpace.In this case is required much energy I think,but not engine overloads,ecc. Going at a speed much higher than the Light Speed,as exploited by Enistein's theories,deforms the space.If travels that would require years even at the light speed are maed in a few minutes,the space deformation would be huge. A this point all what a ship needs to do is to turn leaft,right,up or down instead of pointing straight.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Aardwolf on August 26, 2006, 01:44:58 am
How does the direction you are going in change when you come out of a node or other jump normally? Or is it just a complete mystery that can never be solved by the most advanced technology (i.e. something that is used for convenience by the mission designers and doesn't really work in real life)?
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Prophet on August 26, 2006, 09:30:29 am
Shame on you! You forget FS1 where Galatea/Bastion (can't remember which) jumps right to the jump node, makes a small circle and then jumps out trought the node. It had to reset/recharge its drives before going trought the node. So a ship can jump right on top of the node but has to wait a while before proceeding.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on August 26, 2006, 09:59:39 am
Maybe you're ok but these are just theories about something invented by other members....
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 01, 2006, 06:45:26 am
Nanojumps,


We all love em, I wanna throw a wildacard into the deck though, Whats to say that the exit vector isnt insantaneous in a nano jump (think of portals from Prey) te enrty point would be alligned correctly, the exit point could be flipped forty five degrees on its y axis, The only delay would be in real space as FTL slows time down.......



[nanojumps = a1 supah]
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Wobble73 on September 01, 2006, 07:43:50 am
Could you use a nanojump to perform a Picard manoeuvre???  :doubt:
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 01, 2006, 07:50:29 am
Yes but it would be called a Nemesis manouvre :D
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Woomeister on September 01, 2006, 11:17:25 am
Could you use a nanojump to perform a Picard manoeuvre???  :doubt:
No, as IIRC in the Picard manoeuvre the ship is stays visible at both points for a short time to give an illusion of two ships.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Dark Hunter on September 01, 2006, 12:26:37 pm
I thought that that wouldn't make much of a difference... how exactly are you sexp'ing the nanojumps, Woo?
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Woomeister on September 01, 2006, 12:56:51 pm
Ship jumps out, new ship jumps in x seconds later.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Dark Hunter on September 01, 2006, 01:32:51 pm
I figured as much. I don't see why having the two ships on-screen at once would hurt though... unless they were on the escort list... that would look odd.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Snail on September 01, 2006, 02:36:25 pm
The Nemesis would jump out, and then the Nemesisö jumped in.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Woomeister on September 01, 2006, 02:57:55 pm
Yeah, but the game reads the second ship as Nemesis since the in game font doesn't have that symbol.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 01, 2006, 03:19:40 pm
Even my dogs know it...
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Dark Hunter on September 01, 2006, 05:19:03 pm
Ship jumps out, new ship jumps in x seconds later.
The Nemesis would jump out, and then the Nemesisö jumped in.

Thank you Capt. Snail Obvious!

The only reason I asked was because Woo said:
No, as IIRC in the Picard manoeuvre the ship is stays visible at both points for a short time to give an illusion of two ships.

..and I was wondering if he used a different technique that made it impossible to have both ships in game at the same time.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Woomeister on September 01, 2006, 05:21:00 pm
They way we do it we could have the 2nd ship jump in before the 1st departs.
Using the ship vanish sexps you could probably do the Picard manoeuvre.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 02, 2006, 07:14:20 am
I still prefer the nanojumping.....
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: CaptJosh on September 04, 2006, 01:55:44 am
I think in the SCP now there's a method for a true nanojump using the same ship. I'm not sure how well it works, though.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 04, 2006, 03:28:40 am
.......................This could take some time. :lol:
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: CaptJosh on September 04, 2006, 04:10:48 am
I think it's something to do with some newer SEXPs, but I couldn't tell you which ones. I'm not a FREDder.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 04, 2006, 05:15:17 pm
I don't see SEXPs with this capability....
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: SadisticSid on September 06, 2006, 08:14:11 am
What would be mega cool would be to see the Nemesis jump instantaneously, emerging from the second vortex as it enters the first to indicate the minute travel time.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 06, 2006, 08:16:33 am
That could be done with a bit of timing on entry and departure cues for two ships, The second would get its stats from the first one using variables.
 ;7
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Wobble73 on September 06, 2006, 08:18:37 am
Are there any pics of this Nemesis?? I haven't gotten round to this campaign yet?? Which campaign is it??
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 06, 2006, 08:22:27 am
Sweet Pickles man,   :o
Dont you even know which project Forum you're in :confused:
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Wobble73 on September 06, 2006, 08:34:51 am
Sweet Pickles man,   :o
Dont you even know which project Forum you're in :confused:

Oh right!! My bad, I just came here through unread posts!! :lol: I didn't think to look at which forum it was in!! A silly newb mistake! :lol:
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 08, 2006, 02:33:55 pm
What would be mega cool would be to see the Nemesis jump instantaneously, emerging from the second vortex as it enters the first to indicate the minute travel time.

Steadfast.

That could be done with a bit of timing on entry and departure cues for two ships, The second would get its stats from the first one using variables.
 ;7

It would be perfect if the departure times are set in ms rather than secs.This way,can make a part of a ship entering subspace on one side while the second one enters the area.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 11, 2006, 04:14:11 am
Just use a force jump sex through the events editor to cause a jump rather than the ship editor,  :nervous: surely that could work?
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 11, 2006, 05:44:49 pm
force-jump forces the player to jump ending the mission.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 12, 2006, 04:00:53 am
AI-warp>nemesis>89 ?
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 12, 2006, 04:09:27 pm
warp-out,priority 89(why 89,50 is ok)
or
is-event-true-delay
in the departure cue.

However this times are in secs.In ms it would be much better for this purpose.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Trivial Psychic on September 12, 2006, 10:02:07 pm
Just use a force jump sex through the events editor...
Now there's a feature I never heard of.  :drevil:
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 13, 2006, 02:22:31 pm
I said it's not correct.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Trivial Psychic on September 13, 2006, 07:36:51 pm
You need to read the bit I quoted, a bit more carefully to appreciate my reply.  ;)
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 14, 2006, 04:02:10 am
Sorry i must have had smut on the brain at the time... :lol:
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 14, 2006, 12:44:03 pm
You need to read the bit I quoted, a bit more carefully to appreciate my reply.  ;)

I know,I know, but someone could misunderstand it.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: asyikarea51 on September 17, 2006, 05:28:49 am
I'm testing out the nanojump in one of my campaign missions... hopefully my event chain is working properly.  :lol:

And no, it's not the Nemesis that's nanojumping :nervous: :lol: xD
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 17, 2006, 06:09:57 am
A nanojump is a simple thing to represent with FRED.

Creating a cutscene with Nanojumps....will be amazing!!!
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Snail on September 17, 2006, 09:05:00 am
A nanojump is a simple thing to represent with FRED.

Creating a cutscene with Nanojumps....will be amazing!!!

The old R2 was going to have cutscenes, but doesn't anymore I think...
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 17, 2006, 09:20:53 am
Not simple cutscenes,but missions with cutscenes created using FRED.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Woomeister on September 17, 2006, 09:47:00 am
We have one cutscene mission, but I don't know if it still works correctly anymore since a lot of coding has been changed.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: asyikarea51 on September 18, 2006, 05:26:42 am
I did try making a cutscene mission once. Lame re-enactment of the initial Shivan invasion on Ross 128 lol...

Weaponless and invulnerable player Ulysses. Then you had an Apollo running towards an Arcadia only to get rammed by the Luci from behind (LMAO) and then the Luci would fire its fancy orange beams at the Arcadia... Bang that's it and the player flying the Ulysses jumps out (I never forced the jump out :lol:...)

FS1 Port mod, so the beams were real beams (not the fake-o-Shivan Super Laser). :lol:

And the stupi (misspelt on purpose :lol:) mission had no background :lol:... just an Apollo, an Arcadia, a Luci, a Ulysses and one node behind the Luci :lol:...
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 18, 2006, 02:40:28 pm
Ha hem,how about
Player starts under AI control? :D
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Dark Hunter on September 18, 2006, 02:50:24 pm
Don't forget hud-disable-except-messages....  :D
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 18, 2006, 04:23:02 pm
Make the player invulnerable too!
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Dark Hunter on September 18, 2006, 05:56:00 pm
#1. He already did that.
#2. Making the player stealthy kinda defeats the purpose and works better.
#3. You could just use the camera SEXP's.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mathwiz6 on September 18, 2006, 08:13:28 pm
Ooo, like that cutscene at the end of derelict.

SCP edition of course.

That would be cool. FS. 2. Teh Movie!
Title: Re: Nanojumpin'
Post by: Mobius on September 19, 2006, 05:37:24 am
It would be better if such cutscenes could be converted to ANIs.
Title: Re: Nanojumpin'
Post by: asyikarea51 on September 19, 2006, 07:49:16 am
Ha hem,how about
Player starts under AI control?  :D

i'Ve Done thAt bEfore in an eArlier campaign mission.
 
tHiS PiraTe chitchat iS iRrItAtInG...  n0 oFFeNsE tO tHe cReAtOr/sEtTeR, bUt iT's tOtAlLy tWiStEd tHe MeAnInGs oF sOMe oF mY pOsTs...  :(
Title: Re: Nanojumpin'
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 19, 2006, 07:55:11 am
Avast.........Surely you could nanojump as a player mayhaps?
Title: Re: Nanojumpin'
Post by: Dark Hunter on September 19, 2006, 03:32:16 pm
I doubt it. Maybe you could by doing this:

#1. Partway through the mission, force-jump the player (or just have the player jump out).
#2. Make sure that there is no debriefing.
#3. Make the next mission the same one (but partly completed) and make sure there is no briefing


It'd be a big hassle for both the designer and the player though.


(Here's hoping the pirate word filter won't screw this up too much)
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 20, 2006, 04:03:46 pm
a red-alert will keep all the status situations of all ships,but we don't get that "DLing orders"for a nanojump,which is useless or at least not quite cool for a fighter.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Trivial Psychic on September 20, 2006, 09:00:57 pm
There is a tricky way to fake nano-jumping in just one mission.  It hinges however, on whether or not a warp-effect (the sexp) can be configured to appear in front of and facing the player, no matter where the player is or is pointed.  I'm guessing that either a series of variables and instances of get-object-location and orientation could be done, or perhaps it can be handled with LUA scripting.  Either way, if it can be done, then its appearance would be triggered to the player activating the jump key sequence.  The player's warp ability would actually be disabled to prevent the mission from ending.  So, the player triggers a warp-effect instance with the key sequence, then the player-use-ai is activated and forces the player ship to travel to a waypoint which is just beyond the warp effect.  The position of the waypoint would need to be calculated in the same way as the location of the warp-effect.  Then, just as the warp effect is filling the player's screen, another warp effect is created at the destination location and the series of set ship orientation and position sexps relocate it so its nose is just emerging from the new warp effect.  Set-velocity-x/y/z would be used to maintain the velocity, while the player AI is ordered to follow a new waypoint to follow through with the warp effect emergence.  Then, return control of the ship to the player, make sure all other nano-warping ships (say, the rest of the player's wing) are in position, and there you have it.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 21, 2006, 01:40:20 pm
I may be wrong,but you must insert coords for a warp effect,not just "near the x ship".

However I'm on the opinion that nanojump a fighter is impossible/useless/stupid.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Dark Hunter on September 21, 2006, 05:22:35 pm
Definitely not worth the effort anyway. But coding kudos to anyone who manages it.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Goober5000 on September 21, 2006, 08:12:08 pm
It is definitely possible and definitely worth the effort.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Trivial Psychic on September 21, 2006, 08:34:32 pm
So Goob, does my sequencing have merit?... not that I plan on using it, I just like to know if I'm right or not.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Goober5000 on September 21, 2006, 10:22:42 pm
Which sequencing?  The post that starts "There is a tricky way to fake nano-jumping..."?

Yup.  It's quite possible, and not even hard... just a bit complicated.
Title: Re: Nanojumping
Post by: Mobius on September 22, 2006, 04:32:50 pm
I don't think that a fighter is able to nanojump....
of course a nanojump has to be set at the beginning of the mission,with a nice-warp effect,a fade and then a coord manipulation of all ships in range.

If the camera faces a fighter of the same class of the player's one and we set a departure cue for it,we can have a nanojump just by modifying the coords of other ships.