Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kamikaze on July 31, 2006, 02:35:06 am
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A disturbing look into the mentalities of soldiers in Iraq: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/28/AR2006072801492.html
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Well, at least he's honest about it..........
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Yes, but its disturbing.
How the hell do these people get into the Army?
Don't they do background checks or something?
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Yes, but its disturbing.
How the hell do these people get into the Army?
Don't they do background checks or something?
Well, do you think 'subject is predisposed to killing' would be bad for the army?
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Wouldn't you rather they were in the army?
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Wouldn't you rather they were in the army?
Considering that the army gives them weapons and trains them how to be better at killing, no. What happens when they get out of the army and are back amongst civilians anyway?
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They join the American postal service?
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They miss filling jolly foreigners with hot lead and have to rejoin the army?
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Surely part of the point of boot camp / etc. is to turn the individual human into something that doesn't think, doesn't feel compassion for his enemy but is garunteed to pull the trigger when it is required of him. You desensitise a man to death, call his enemy a gook or a zip (anything but a "human") and you have a man who is ready to kill.
I don't know why this is suprising. Perhaps the human races moral code isn't quite up to looking this sort of thing in the face.
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What the kronk is a ZIP? :lol:
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Ever since S.L.A. Marshall did a study during WWII where he discovered that the majority of infantrymen were really sort of extras, and most of the direct man-to-man fighting was done by a small number of them, armies have spent a lot of time just training their troops to shoot at people. Humans are not by nature killers of fellow humans.
On the other hand, I'm fairly sure I know what the primary motivation behind this is. It's actually stupidly simple when you think about it. Nietzche was right. Fight monsters and you want to kill them. And from where they're sitting, they're fighting monsters, people who kill indiscriminately, who obey none of the rules of civilized warfare, who neither ask nor offer quarter. This is not a unique occurance. It happened with Allied forces fighting the Japanese in WWII, it happened in Vietnam, it's probably happened in every large-scale guerilla conflict since the dawn of the 20th century.
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Too much Doom maybe? That old argument is bound to come up in the media.....
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It's probably true that military training will desensitize a person, but private Green's problem wasn't that. The article mentioned he had a criminal record and drug/alcohol problems. Maybe he should've been screened out.
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It's probably true that military training will desensitize a person, but private Green's problem wasn't that. The article mentioned he had a criminal record and drug/alcohol problems. Maybe he should've been screened out.
That might be seen as the type of personality perfect for 'moulding', though. I don't mean in the sense of being an ideal killing machine, but perhaps they would think it was the type of person who would be easily / effectively converted to an order-following soldier; the sort of 'all they need is a bit of discipline' type approach. i.e. take someone with nothing and give them something, and they'll follow you.
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You run a lot of risks doing that though.. example; A known pedophile is allowed into active service and sent out to Iraq. He kills a few enemy troops and does his part.. then proceeds to rape a classroom of school children out there. The military knew he was a convicted pedophile before allowing him into service.
I'm sure you can see the kind of backlash this scenario would counjur. What were the military doing, putting this known rapist of children into a situation where he could do it again?
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You run a lot of risks doing that though.. example; A known pedophile is allowed into active service and sent out to Iraq. He kills a few enemy troops and does his part.. then proceeds to rape a classroom of school children out there. The military knew he was a convicted pedophile before allowing him into service.
I'm sure you can see the kind of backlash this scenario would counjur. What were the military doing, putting this known rapist of children into a situation where he could do it again?
Oh, I agree. i'm not saying that mindset is correct, just that they might have it.
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The killer instinct is inherantly dormant in all of us, as you say, It just takes the right "circumstances" to allow it to surface. As one with prior military experience i can say, quite a few people who in normal civilian life would be quite docile persons; under combat conditions (simulated or otherwise) presented quite an overly (above normal army requirements) aggressive nature.
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There's a difference between killer instinct and 'fight-or-flight' response, though. I remember stories of how a large percentage - a majority IIRC - of WW2 GIs never actually fired their gun in Normandy.
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I completely agree there Aldo,
The flight or fight response is completely instilled in every sentient life on the planet, What i was referring to is completely civil people who entered Combat High, I would go so far as to say 1 person in particular who was kicked out of the ATR i was in (Army Training Regiment) at Pirbright because he was to quote a lance jack, (and i apologise for the term) "Like a ****in' rabid dog".
Its a common belief that people get addicted either psychologically to the feeling of power, or chemically to the adrenaline released. Some people can deal with it, some people just cannot..
All valid points here, i like the flow of dialogue, Its nice to not have an argument on one page for once :D
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On the other hand, I'm fairly sure I know what the primary motivation behind this is. It's actually stupidly simple when you think about it. Nietzche was right. Fight monsters and you want to kill them. And from where they're sitting, they're fighting monsters, people who kill indiscriminately, who obey none of the rules of civilized warfare, who neither ask nor offer quarter. This is not a unique occurance. It happened with Allied forces fighting the Japanese in WWII, it happened in Vietnam, it's probably happened in every large-scale guerilla conflict since the dawn of the 20th century.
Precisely what I was thinking. While I know there are some cases like Pvt. Green that have his natural disposition and record, the military has to be trained to expect to fight barbarians, and because it sometimes is near impossible to distinguish between a paniced civilian or a suicide bomber, civilians are unfortunately killed.
I'm sure you can see the kind of backlash this scenario would counjur. What were the military doing, putting this known rapist of children into a situation where he could do it again?
Plain and simple: there are just some bad recruiters in the military. They're the types who'll take just about anybody to make the numbers. There aren't very many of these recruiters, mind, and it's the few bad cases reported by the press that tend to give the entire military a bad name.
The services other than the Army or USMC tend to have much better recruits simply because of the time and effort spent in checking backgrounds. Hell, even unpaid speeding tickets can result in most Air Force jobs being inaccessible.
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Recruiting officers are having difficulty meeting quotas, so to compensate, they grab anyone they can. Most of them end up in the Infantry as well, because of the relative ease of that certain branch. It's true that the other branches are much, much harder and more extensive than the Army in performing background checks. But hey, when all you need a soldier for is firing a gun and killing people, who cares if he's a murderer in real life, huh? (That was sarcasm)
To quote a book I just read (Catch-22); "Oh well what the hell"
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I don't have a lot of time to post my thoughts, so forgive me for this not being tottaly coherent.
There is a difference between normal human fight-or-flight response or the activation of the warrior within us (which we all have) and what we have going on with Pvt. Green.
First, let me state that I am speaking from a psychological point of view. That is what I do, that is what I know, so that is where I am coming from.
Now, I am not his therapist, but from what I have learned about him, what we are looking at here is pathological.
Most people go in to the armed forces and are trained to kill. They have to learn to do it. It does take mind games (depersonification or villification) in many instances to numb the cognitive and moral dissonance that people feel when causing the death of a human being. Some soldiers accept this passively, while others find that fighting for a cause, like defending freedom, promoting democracy, etc... is enough to help them come to peace with what they are doing, at least for the most part.
Then, there is a subset that goes into the army so they can find a legally sanctioned way to kill. (It's similiar to the phenomenon in which drinking does not really make people violent, but some people drink so they can be violent. No time to flesh that out right now, but let me just note the similarity.) This can be for various reasons, but it's pretty easy to build a profile of the family history of such a person. Throw in a non-responsive or absent father, perhaps some physical or sexual abuse, problems with education and maybe even a learning disability, toss in domestic violence in the family and drug use, etc...
Anyways, this is the kind that I worry about, because their actions are not tempered by moral ideas such as "just cause," nor are their minds really impressed by the concept of a "civilian."
Now, the part that makes me fairly certain that this guy has some serious psychopathology going on (probably Anti-Social Personality Disorder, and more that's diagnosable besides) is the fact that when he killed people, he felt nothing at all, not even the triumph of having killed like he had wanted (which you might find in someone who had a lot of unchanneled anger). The person he killed meant nothing to him, not even worthy of being an evil person in the service of some unjust cause. Not even worthy of being hated. Not even feeling like, "hey, I just saved my buddies from that guy trying to blow us all up." It was almost like he was bored with it.
Now, people may not feel something when they kill due to being numb, shell-shocked, or from having had enough experiences of working out the moral justification for why they are doing what they are doing. But this response of his is extreme and was not the response of repeated kills in combat. This was his first kill.
So, when we try to understand this guy, we've got to realize that we aren't dealing with a healthy psyche.
You can fight and kill for two reasons: hatred and love. You may love your own country and family, love the idea of freedom and fight for these. You may hate oppression and terrorism, and you may fight against them. These are all adaptive. But, you may love to kill. You may love to inflict pain. You may hate a racial or religious group, and want to obliterate them. These are maladaptive, and cannot be trusted. No matter how good the soldier is, if these were his motivations I would not want him on my team.
Sadly, though, there are branches of the US (and other countries) armed forces that really don't screen for this type. They are often highly competent in their killing, and thus little effort is made to screen for them. However, with them it is only a matter of time until they cross the line between "soldier" and "murderer."
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Was anyone else reminded of Full Metal Jacket?
"Private Joker, why'd you join my beloved corps?"
"Sir, to kill, sir!"
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Too much Doom maybe?
BOOM HEAD SHOT!
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But a soldier must, by his definition, have a certain relaxed attitude towards killing. Just like a racecar driver can't be the queezy type. Every soldier, whether he's American or Iraqi or whatever, must be willing to kill. You can't fault soldiers for that, they are filling a (generally) necessary role. What you can do is fault the role itself, the institution itself, but at worst I see it as a necessary evil.
For example, an American goes to Iraq and kills Iraqis and doesn't feel remorse. An Iraqi insurgent comes along and kills the soldier. Now to be anti-violence in general would condemn both men for their actions themselves, not the purpose of their actions. But neither of the two should be condemned, but the insitution to which they belong and the purpose of their use of violence is in one case legitimate and in the other not. So my general attitude is that killing is not what must be judged, but the reasons behind the killing.
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I agree with what you are saying, Rictor. As I have said, there is a difference between a soldier and a murderer. But even a soldier can become a murderer when he steps outside of his role, when his killing exceeds the realm of combat, duty, and conventions of warfare and enters the realm of personal pleasure, compulsion, and appetite.
A soldier must learn to come to peace with the killing in his job. I agree with you 100% on that point. I will not debate the morality of warfare here, that is not my point, but regardless, if a soldier is to remain a soldier and not go psychotic or become suicidal, he must find a way to make what he is doing fit into what he values. I don't fault soldiers for that at all. I am glad that they are able to do it. They have a hard job, and I respect them for what they do.
Getting back to the point, it is not the fact that that Private Green had a relaxed attitude about killing that is the problem or that is disturbing to me. As I said, many soldiers have come to peace with their killing due to concepts like "justice," "defending freedom," "self-defense against a malignant enemy," and so forth, and these are concepts I believe in. Being willing to kill is not pathological. It is a surivial instinct that we all must have. If only the crazies were willing to kill, everyone sane in the world would be dead before too long. :)
The problem I see with Private Green was not that his attitude was relaxed. In fact, his attitude, if anything, was "hungry" or "lustful." He thirsted for blood. That is different than having a relaxed attitude about it. So, I certainly hope that it didn't sound like I was trying to say that the relaxed attitude that many soldiers develop about killing is a sign of pathology. It is what they must do to survive.
As I see it, Private Green was extremely dissapointed when his bloodlust was not satiated by his first combat kill (as was to be expected). He was left feeling bored and unfulfilled. He hadn't come to peace with it. He didn't feel relaxed by it. He didn't feel indifferent about it. He was dissapointed by it. That is a very different thing.
So, what he did next was actually sadly predictable: he escalated.
I see this sort of thing in my work with sexual addicts all of the time. The guy starts out with soft porn, then heavy porn, then perhaps some deviant porn, or he starts stalking somebody or having serial affairs, and so on and so forth until something heinous happens or he gets caught. It is all driven by a similar dynamic: the "dosage" is not enough, and somehow doing things that are increasingly outside of the realm of what is acceptable by society turns up the "dosage." It's a very compulsive type of thing.
One can only assume that what he did was stepwise. He may have tried more brutal kills against military targets, he may have become "casual" about firing with civilians in the combat zone, I don't know the details.But what he ultimately did was his final escalation: crossing the boundary between soldier and murderer in an attempt to satisfy that appetite that he had been cultivating for years. The sad thing is, even if he found this fulfilling, he would only want more after that. This sort of compulsive, addictive appetite cannot be satisfied by acting upon it. And can only be quenched by rerouting and finding adaptive ways to fulfill the needs for which the compulsion is acting as a maladaptive coping attempt.
It was a good thing he was caught when he was.
So, in all fairness: this thread was started out with the caption: "A disturbing look into the mentalities of soldiers in Iraq." To be fair and accurate, all we can say is "a disturbing look into the mentality of one sociopathic soldier in Iraq." Certainly, it is not fair to take the actions and mindset of a person who is clearly pathological and generalize it to all of the soldiers there.
The sad points made by this soldier's case can be taken, but it loses its validity when it's proper frame of reference is over-extended. I think what this punctuates is not the "brutality of American soldiers," but rather the danger of certain personality types that would seek to enter the armed forces of any nation, and the necessity of screening them out, regardless of how efficient they are at their jobs.
I think it also bears recognition that this type of personality profile is very common among captured members of terrorist groups who have been psych-evaled.
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I know some ppl joining the army just to kill some ****ing iraqies.
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I know some ppl joining the army just to kill some ****ing iraqies.
Is that in an approving or condemning tone?
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i'm wondering why iraquis didnt beat the crap out of the americans yet... its like they dont care who is ruling anymore, they just want to live, they dont want to fight at all, and as it looks like now, they actuially had some little security under hussein...
now its just to decide by who you're gonna get killed...
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Well, to be perfectly honest, the US Army and Marine Corps have **** for background checking. The reasons for that are two-fold. The Army, because they need to meet quotas to keep up their budget. They just want as many people in there, no matter what. It dosen't matter if you have physical problems, mental problems, are a drunk, an ex-con, whatever. They'll take you. Not only because they want to make quota, but in a lot of cases they can re-mold them into being productive members of socicety. The Air Force and Navy, however, have extremely comprehensive checks. Why? Because of the hardware they deal with. In the Marines and Army, your just a grunt. Yeah, there are many jobs, but if your not that smart, they'll just give you a gun and a prayer. In the Air Force and Navy, you are working with machinery and technology that is extremely complicated and worth a hell of a lot more than some dumbass soildier.
The Marines, on the other hand, let people in because not everyone is going to make it through basic. It's a better way to seperate the weat from the chaff than a simple background check. Why? Because no matter what, people always revert back to their old ways. And, in the Marines, if you **** up big in basic, you're out. No questions. And bootcamp does chance people, a lot. My younger brother is a PFC in the USMC, and boot changed him. A lot for the better, too. He says that a lot of the people who went through it that were ****ups, got straightened out.
In the case of Green... Well, I can kind of see where he is coming from. I mean, he is in a country that has people who do not discreminate who they kill. If you look at it, they'll go after anyone who is white and speaks English, in the military or not. They'll kill people on TV, bomb busses filled with innocents to get at one person, they'll go to the ends of the world to make our lives over there miserable. What do we do? Well, not a lot really. I mean, we say we'll stay the resolve and all that crap and whatever. Those people don't listen to words, they listen to actions. They'll respond, and maybe even get a little scared, if we kill a few innocents. I mean, it might make them think before they do more. It's not something I agree with, not at all. But all those people see is an eye for an eye, and thats it. They dont want to negoitate. Yes, we kill their leaders, but more just keep coming and coming. If we kill some of their people, they might think again.
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I don't think this Pvt is representitive of most of the soldiers in Iraq
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this was the reason i attempted to join the marines, but when they got my psycological profile they decided not to let me in. oh well :D
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I know some ppl joining the army just to kill some ****ing iraqies.
Is that in an approving or condemning tone?
Well, i think the war is waste of money\time. I think 'go ahead and kill those ****in iraqies', as they are of no matter to me. I think military sux. Goverment spys on us and sux. Yay for NASA (unrelated comment).
I, I like girls.
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I know some ppl joining the army just to kill some ****ing iraqies.
Is that in an approving or condemning tone?
Well, i think the war is waste of money\time. I think 'go ahead and kill those ****in iraqies', as they are of no matter to me. I think military sux. Goverment spys on us and sux. Yay for NASA (unrelated comment).
I, I like girls.
:wtf: How stoned are you? Or are you actually being racist/anarchist/peacenik?
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I know some ppl joining the army just to kill some ****ing iraqies.
Is that in an approving or condemning tone?
Well, i think the war is waste of money\time. I think 'go ahead and kill those ****in iraqies', as they are of no matter to me. I think military sux. Goverment spys on us and sux. Yay for NASA (unrelated comment).
I, I like girls.
Ah, but do girls like a semi-literate hick? (unrelated comment)
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They miss filling jolly foreigners with hot lead and have to rejoin the army?
No,
they kill innocent civilian immigrants instead.
Sickening.
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They miss filling jolly foreigners with hot lead and have to rejoin the army?
I blieve you mean "Johnny Foreigner"............
I think the best way of solving this situation, would to be a bit more like WW1 British officers, As long as no rules are broken fine, as soon as someone messes about, *BLAM* to the face :snipe:
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They miss filling jolly foreigners with hot lead and have to rejoin the army?
No,
they kill innocent civilian immigrants instead.
Sickening.
You have any basis for that claim, or are you just bashing the military or veterans because you can?
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this was the reason i attempted to join the marines, but when they got my psycological profile they decided not to let me in. oh well :D
Now, why does that not surprise me in the least, mister 'nuke the word and let God sort 'em out'? :p
You have any basis for that claim, or are you just bashing the military or veterans because you can?
On a side note, i've always wondered why we hold veterans in such high esteem. I mean, sure, there are your heroes who do risk their lives for their mates, that's commendable. But for the average veteran, what's there beyond 'I killed foreign people because someone told me to, and didn't get my knackers shot-off'. Why does that elicit respect?
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You have any basis for that claim, or are you just bashing the military or veterans because you can?
On a side note, i've always wondered why we hold veterans in such high esteem. I mean, sure, there are your heroes who do risk their lives for their mates, that's commendable. But for the average veteran, what's there beyond 'I killed foreign people because someone told me to'. Why does that elicit respect?
Substitute "killed foreign people" with "put myself in harm's way" and you'll understand why I hold them in high respect.
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I don't respect veterans any more - or less - than I do police, firemen, etc. I don't believe we should idolise soldiers as infallible patriotic heroes, not do I believe we should castigate them for - for example - fighting in wars like Iraq when their role depends on their following orders (even if the war is manifestly illegal, the responsibility and liability for that lies with the politicians).
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Substitute "killed foreign people" with "put myself in harm's way" and you'll understand why I hold them in high respect.
Could you do any better? I put myself in harms way when I cross the street in Balmain, or walk through an alley in Redfern at night, do I deserve a parade?
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People look for heroes because it allows them to pretend that things like war are anything more than an absurd horror-- a horror to which we subject ourselves because we can't even comprehend any other way of moving history. But I get the impression that the soldiers themselves are generally the first ones to be cursed with a more accurate sense of perspective. There will always be those-- like Kurtz in Heart of Darkness-- who, when faced with human brutality, give up pretending that notions of good and evil make any sense. For those of us who would rather not think about the truths with which they come face-to-face, our only option is to call them crazy, condemn their occasional public handiwork, and forget about it.
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this was the reason i attempted to join the marines, but when they got my psycological profile they decided not to let me in. oh well :D
Now, why does that not surprise me in the least, mister 'nuke the word and let God sort 'em out'? :p
that almost works but you forget i do not believe in god. :D
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Substitute "killed foreign people" with "put myself in harm's way" and you'll understand why I hold them in high respect.
Could you do any better? I put myself in harms way when I cross the street in Balmain, or walk through an alley in Redfern at night, do I deserve a parade?
Nearly every single veteran, current member of the military, or recruit that I've had the pleasure of speaking with has said that their cause for enlisting was to fight for freedom, protect the innocent, and bring justice to the evil. It's when somebody does something or assumes great personal danger to ensure the safety or well-being of others or for something greater than themselves that I see them as a genuine hero (firefighters, police officers, soldiers, and the like all fall into this category).
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There will always be nutjobs in the army. It is, after all, the army. If you were afraid of killing people, helping others to kill people, or showing people that you could kill, why would you join? That is what the army does, even if it is for a 'good' cause ultimately.
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People look for heroes because it allows them to pretend that things like war are anything more than an absurd horror-- a horror to which we subject ourselves because we can't even comprehend any other way of moving history. But I get the impression that the soldiers themselves are generally the first ones to be cursed with a more accurate sense of perspective. There will always be those-- like Kurtz in Heart of Darkness-- who, when faced with human brutality, give up pretending that notions of good and evil make any sense. For those of us who would rather not think about the truths with which they come face-to-face, our only option is to call them crazy, condemn their occasional public handiwork, and forget about it.
Ah, thankyou, that makes sense.
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I know some ppl joining the army just to kill some ****ing iraqies.
Is that in an approving or condemning tone?
Well, i think the war is waste of money\time. I think 'go ahead and kill those ****in iraqies', as they are of no matter to me. I think military sux. Goverment spys on us and sux. Yay for NASA (unrelated comment).
I, I like girls.
:wtf: How stoned are you? Or are you actually being racist/anarchist/peacenik?
No not stoned. Just my thoughts. Racist? No, their irrevalant to the existance of my life, which is going to work and going to my moms and playing video games. Anarchist? Definition please. Isnt that someoen obsessed with fire and starting fires?
How am i a peacenik? I think America should go and dominate the world. World domination by USA FTW! I think our military sux cause they will eventually agree with the gov and one day imprision us all and become a dictatorship. They will presecute christians like jews in the holocost. (Wont say any more, so if u dont want any religon talk, dont reply to that.) Our military messes around with **** it shouldent. I would never join the military. It would be a sin agienst myself personally. Id like to be a pilot, a fighter pilot, so joining Air Force would be only way sides NASA *true dream to be a space Pilot\fighter pilot* to achieve that. Maby one day tho. Maby one day we will discover the shivans are real and then i can be a space fighter pilot FTW!
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They will presecute christians like jews in the holocost.
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/7479/americanchristianopression7ug.gif)
Man, I love that picture.
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They will presecute christians like jews in the holocost.
sounds like a plan to me :D
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No not stoned. Just my thoughts. Racist? No, their irrevalant to the existance of my life, which is going to work and going to my moms and playing video games. Anarchist? Definition please. Isnt that someoen obsessed with fire and starting fires?
How am i a peacenik? I think America should go and dominate the world. World domination by USA FTW! I think our military sux cause they will eventually agree with the gov and one day imprision us all and become a dictatorship. They will presecute christians like jews in the holocost. (Wont say any more, so if u dont want any religon talk, dont reply to that.) Our military messes around with **** it shouldent. I would never join the military. It would be a sin agienst myself personally. Id like to be a pilot, a fighter pilot, so joining Air Force would be only way sides NASA *true dream to be a space Pilot\fighter pilot* to achieve that. Maby one day tho. Maby one day we will discover the shivans are real and then i can be a space fighter pilot FTW!
"World Domination by the US FTW"?
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GTNW FTW !!!!!!
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I know some ppl joining the army just to kill some ****ing iraqies.
Is that in an approving or condemning tone?
Well, i think the war is waste of money\time. I think 'go ahead and kill those ****in iraqies', as they are of no matter to me. I think military sux. Goverment spys on us and sux. Yay for NASA (unrelated comment).
I, I like girls.
:wtf: How stoned are you? Or are you actually being racist/anarchist/peacenik?
No not stoned. Just my thoughts. Racist? No, their irrevalant to the existance of my life, which is going to work and going to my moms and playing video games. Anarchist? Definition please. Isnt that someoen obsessed with fire and starting fires?
How am i a peacenik? I think America should go and dominate the world. World domination by USA FTW! I think our military sux cause they will eventually agree with the gov and one day imprision us all and become a dictatorship. They will presecute christians like jews in the holocost. (Wont say any more, so if u dont want any religon talk, dont reply to that.) Our military messes around with **** it shouldent. I would never join the military. It would be a sin agienst myself personally. Id like to be a pilot, a fighter pilot, so joining Air Force would be only way sides NASA *true dream to be a space Pilot\fighter pilot* to achieve that. Maby one day tho. Maby one day we will discover the shivans are real and then i can be a space fighter pilot FTW!
Every time im back here for more than 5 minutes, somones always tempting me to do something to get me in trouble with the admins.
Of course the military agrees with the government, they are the government. Where do you think their paychecks come from?
Iraqis do affect you you inconsiderit jackhole, every person in the world affects you in one insignificant way or the other, and you best believe a whole country of people is going to have some affect on you. On top of that, these are PEOPLE, not pixelated geometrical shapes on your tv screen.
A pyro is someone who loves fire, an anarchist believes in no goverment or any kind of order.
Practicaly everyone in the government and armed forces, and US at that is christian or one of those other ridiculous too numerous to list offbranches of christianity, so are youre trying to say theyre all gonna lock themselves up?
Im going to restrain myself here by sayingwhat you are, but instead, i'll tell you what youre not ..
Decent, intelligent, somone with a basic understanding of english words, somone who conjugates thoughts from real life facts, and someone who has a basic idea and understanding of the world they live in.
But unfortunately you are literate..
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He is?
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He is?
Either that, or theres two of em, one working the keyboard and the other working the mouth hole behind him
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Underscore hole?
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asshole..ffs
charismatic, you cant really be as stupid in r/l as you show on these forums
I think America should go and dominate the world. World domination by USA FTW! I think our military sux cause they will eventually agree with the gov and one day imprision us all and become a dictatorship.
read that again, then ask yourself, how would we dominate without a military?
They will presecute christians like jews in the holocost
i just want to punch you after i read that. you cant seriously believe that nonsense spouting from your head
damn i hate you
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Back on topic, Army recruiting standards have gotten pretty low. I've heard they bumped the max recruiting age pretty high are also are willing to accept people with some "mental issues". I'm not surprised a guy like this would get in there.
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army recruiting standards have never been high, theyll also bend/break their own rules if it fills their recruitment quota
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they also lie to people to encourage them to join. my friend, who is an MP, caught a recruiter telling a kid that he wouldnt be sent to iraq.
bastards.
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Sometimes I could kiss you NH. You have the ability to imitate my thoughts and feelings into words so well. ;)
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"World Domination by the US FTW"?
I think if America cut the BS, we have the power and military to dominate the world. I think one day we should maby, but i wont really support that opinion tho in any real way, its just my opinion. I would not really want to be in any war that serious. Too much killing and death if you ask me, then would be worth it.
GTNW FTW !!!!!!
GTNW?
Every time im back here for more than 5 minutes, somones always tempting me to do something to get me in trouble with the admins.
Of course the military agrees with the government, they are the government. Where do you think their paychecks come from?
I never said they didnt. I was makeing a statement of the future. It was unclear i admit that. I know they listen to the goverment, gov owns military. Yes their checks from the Gov.
Iraqis do affect you you inconsiderit jackhole, every person in the world affects you in one insignificant way or the other, and you best believe a whole country of people is going to have some affect on you. On top of that, these are PEOPLE, not pixelated geometrical shapes on your tv screen.
Yes in the grand scheme of things everyone affects me, and the country im in. But as for me going to work, and playing video games, no they do not affect me. They do not immediately (sp?) affect me. Gas prices yes. I have not met a Iraqie, or seen one in person. What affect could they have in my personal life? (Il let you answer that one)
A pyro is someone who loves fire, an anarchist believes in no goverment or any kind of order.
Thank you for the definition. Its appreciated.
Practicaly everyone in the government and armed forces, and US at that is christian or one of those other ridiculous too numerous to list offbranches of christianity, so are youre trying to say theyre all gonna lock themselves up?
Fine get into it. In the 'denomination' of christianity i am in, proficy and devine healing is practiced. Practiced may be wrong word, so dont crap urself over it. Proficy. Its been a while sence i was in church so i dont have a clean cut statement. So from my understanding, yes only mine, of what little i comprehended of it:
There will be some majior presecution of christianity in america also. Thus mostlikely, the christians in gov will b killed or replaced and some law agiesnt christianity will occur, and the rest is what i said. How will these events occur? Iv got no ****ing idea. I have seen other proficy occur and actually be 'fufilled'. Meh i might ask my dad somtime if i remeber to get a better understanding.
Im going to restrain myself here by sayingwhat you are, but instead, i'll tell you what youre not ..
Good use of restraint.
Decent, intelligent, somone with a basic understanding of english words, somone who conjugates thoughts from real life facts, and someone who has a basic idea and understanding of the world they live in.
I am decent, honorable, smart, a good person, careing about people (not nations, too big), i know english. I am oviusly not one of the people who try to learn the words that are uncommon or fancy or w\e to expand my vocabulary and knolodge.
I do not care about other nations or peoples that much. I do not care for city or state. Country as a whole is ****ed anyways. I just live. Im about to go into college, i bet il change in there a bit to care more and be more 'intellegent' as you say. I will definately have a bigger voabulary.
Why why do you ****ing hate me? Whats ur ****ing problem man? Seriously. Im not the one attacking your posts and opinions. Im glad your opinions differ then mine. So what if im not a 25 year old who is very articulite and has a great knoloage of the affiars that are happening around the world. About democricy (sp?) and tyrrany and israle and all the other **** out there. I really dont care about things that big. What the **** can i do anyways? I can change nothing. All i have is my opinions. Thats it. They do what they do, they get into troulbe and take actions and yada yada. **** hapens. We have to deal with their bad decisions. War killing hate, will always be, on this earth anyways. Cant stop it. So? Yes exactly, so.
I may not be the best example of christian, im stilll young yet, im no pastor. I beleive in Jesus. Im a christian. I will grow and learn in time, and will learn to love all and have greater compassion for more ppl. But right now. Meh.
But unfortunately you are literate..
Id like to know what the hell is wrong with you. What i said was my opinion. Dont like it? GET THE **** OVER IT! Thats why America has freedom of speach, and thought (excpet the media's actions), so please stop pissin yourself becauze your opinions are different then mine.
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Sometimes I could kiss you NH. You have the ability to imitate my thoughts and feelings into words so well. ;)
Same here.
Except, maybe a little less "male bonding." :nervous:
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Charismatic: When I try to read your posts I'm reminded of when I read Flowers for Algernon...
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"World Domination by the US FTW"?
I think if America cut the BS, we have the power and military to dominate the world. I think one day we should maby, but i wont really support that opinion tho in any real way, its just my opinion. I would not really want to be in any war that serious. Too much killing and death if you ask me, then would be worth it.
Why FTW?
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@Char, I don't really diasgree with all that much you said, aside from feeding the troll, but this...
Fine get into it. In the 'denomination' of christianity i am in, proficy and devine healing is practiced. Practiced may be wrong word, so dont crap urself over it. Proficy. Its been a while sence i was in church so i dont have a clean cut statement. So from my understanding, yes only mine, of what little i comprehended of it:
There will be some majior presecution of christianity in america also. Thus mostlikely, the christians in gov will b killed or replaced and some law agiesnt christianity will occur, and the rest is what i said. How will these events occur? Iv got no ****ing idea. I have seen other proficy occur and actually be 'fufilled'. Meh i might ask my dad somtime if i remeber to get a better understanding.
I think you should ask your father, as prophecies are all a bunch of bull****. End of story. Although, I would like to find out a bit more in detail, namely these prophecies that have 'already been fulfilled'.
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lmao kamikaze
also lmao at Chars prophecy
I think if America cut the BS, we have the power and military to dominate the world. I think one day we should maby, but i wont really support that opinion tho in any real way, its just my opinion. I would not really want to be in any war that serious. Too much killing and death if you ask me, then would be worth it.
yes we have the firepower, no we dont have the manpower/ or will to actually do it and there is no 'war that serious' any war that anyone is in has reached the peak of seriousness
Sometimes I could kiss you NH. You have the ability to imitate my thoughts and feelings into words so well. ;)
hey big boy ;7
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I think if America cut the BS, we have the power and military to dominate the world. I think one day we should maby, but i wont really support that opinion tho in any real way, its just my opinion. I would not really want to be in any war that serious. Too much killing and death if you ask me, then would be worth it.
yes we have the firepower, no we dont have the manpower/ or will to actually do it and there is no 'war that serious' any war that anyone is in has reached the peak of seriousness
you only have the firepower to destroy the world (and yourself in the process), not dominate it.
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yeah thats whta it would take for 'us' to 'dominate the world' cuz god knows were not dropping ppl to hold places if that were the case :p
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That's the scary thing, because in all seriousness, all US administrations [at least for the past 62 years] could damn well be expected to say "if we can't have the world, nobody can!".
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I think if America cut the BS, we have the power and military to dominate the world. I think one day we should maby, but i wont really support that opinion tho in any real way, its just my opinion. I would not really want to be in any war that serious. Too much killing and death if you ask me, then would be worth it.
You can't even control a small, weak middle eastern country. What exactly makes you think you could control a much larger and more powerful country like India, Russia, or China. Plus said countries have this lovely thing called "nuclear deterance".
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I think if America cut the BS, we have the power and military to dominate the world. I think one day we should maby, but i wont really support that opinion tho in any real way, its just my opinion. I would not really want to be in any war that serious. Too much killing and death if you ask me, then would be worth it.
You can't even control a small, weak middle eastern country. What exactly makes you think you could control a much larger and more powerful country like India, Russia, or China. Plus said countries have this lovely thing called "nuclear deterance".
I think he meant 'dominate the world' in the capacity of making North America the only patch of habitable world left, meaning that the US would indeed dominate the entire world, which is well within the US's capability.
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Aye, but if North America is the only habitable land left in the world, then we're all pretty much ****ed anyway. There's no way we'd be able to support ourselves.
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I meant control all countries, not destroy everything else. And note, i did say, if america cut the BS.
And i may sometime soon ask my dad.
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I meant control all countries, not destroy everything else. And note, i did say, if america cut the BS.
Right, so no ****ing chance in hell of that, then.
And i may sometime soon ask my dad.
EDIT; why, can you not think for yourself?
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I meant control all countries, not destroy everything else. And note, i did say, if america cut the BS.
Forgive me for asking, but are you completely bat****? The sheer logistical challenge both in terms of supply and manpower, not to mention the political strength needed to control areas much larger than the continental US right now, are all well beyond it capability. Realistically, if they 'cut the BS' as you say, the US might be able to calm things down in Iraq. Maybe. You've got to remember that having the most advanced military technology in the world won't take you all that far when you've got comparatively miniscule manpower when compared to, say, the PLA, or RA at the height of its power.
The only way the US can 'dominate the world' is with fire, not men.
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It's topics like this that keep me reading... :wakka:
US world domination FTW!!!!
You Charismatic, are why people are afraid of Christian fundis. No offense or anything, but that is a rather dangerous opinion (the US should take over the world, one).
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i love how kosh refers to as 'you' instead of 'us', after leaving the country what 5-6 months ago :rolleyes:
You can't even control a small, weak middle eastern country. What exactly makes you think you could control a much larger and more powerful country like India, Russia, or China. Plus said countries have this lovely thing called "nuclear deterance".
we control iraq(and most of afgahnistan for that matter), youre a moron if you really think we dont. just cuz we cant stop random bomb toting nutballs doesnt mean we dont control it. Hell theres murders jsut about every day here in the US, you saying we dont control our own country?
and if we put are foot down and mobilized all our forces to one area instead of being spread all over the globe, we could hold down one of those countries, but definently not all 3. The capability is there, the will/need isnt
and charismatic youve got some really off the wall **** coming outta your head, you a scientologist or somthing
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You can't even control a small, weak middle eastern country. What exactly makes you think you could control a much larger and more powerful country like India, Russia, or China. Plus said countries have this lovely thing called "nuclear deterance".
we control iraq(and most of afgahnistan for that matter), youre a moron if you really think we dont. just cuz we cant stop random bomb toting nutballs doesnt mean we dont control it. Hell theres murders jsut about every day here in the US, you saying we dont control our own country?
and if we put are foot down and mobilized all our forces to one area instead of being spread all over the globe, we could hold down one of those countries, but definently not all 3. The capability is there, the will/need isnt
Technically, significant chunks of Afghanistan and Iraq are controlled by foreign powers........
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Well, we could control them, but not without bringing about WWIII
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see this all hypothectical BS, but mars any major military action like that would likely bring about WWIII
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Didn't I say that?
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I think if America cut the BS, we have the power and military to dominate the world. I think one day we should maby, but i wont really support that opinion tho in any real way, its just my opinion. I would not really want to be in any war that serious. Too much killing and death if you ask me, then would be worth it.
You can't even control a small, weak middle eastern country.
I find this odd coming from you Kosh. I suppose securing a hotbed of terrorism and Islamofacism might just be a little more difficult than dominating and oppressing a completely defenseless, religious-based country like you did.
we control iraq(and most of afgahnistan for that matter), youre a moron if you really think we dont. just cuz we cant stop random bomb toting nutballs doesnt mean we dont control it. Hell theres murders jsut about every day here in the US, you saying we dont control our own country?
Exactly. Are Arizona and D.C. total quagmires because of the recent spikes in crime and murder?
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I think Arizona just might be hell
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Exactly. Are Arizona and D.C. total quagmires because of the recent spikes in crime and murder?
You can't compare the two, namely as DC would be a hell of a lot safer if the military were out in force a la Iraq. Conversely, if you had only a local police-force as the only deterrent in Iraq, the country would blow-up inside of a week.
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a) Iraq is not a 'recent spike' but a continuous trend (and an upward thing, IIRC)
b) No senior diplomats have warned of the degeneration of Arizona or DC into civil war
c) When was the last suicide bombing in the US?
d) When was the last time a senior government official was kidnapped in the US?
e) Do armed private militias control parts of Arizona or DC as with al-Sadrs Mehdi army?
f) Are there almost-routine murders of large numbers of police officers in Arizona or DC?
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Wow, Go away for 3 days and the entire topic goes to hell. Can someone lock this, seeing as how no one has anything worthwhile to add pertaining to the topic?
Edit: Thought this was a different topic... as in one that I had actually posted in. My mistake.
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Umm, have you even posted in this topic prior to this constructive contribution?
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I suppose securing a hotbed of terrorism and Islamofacism might just be a little more difficult than dominating and oppressing a completely defenseless, religious-based country like you did.
1.) I did not do what you said I did.
2.) It is a hotbed of terrorism and Islamofascism because of failed post-Saddam planning and bungled or botched post war operations. There is really no one to blame but yourselves for this.
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I suppose securing a hotbed of terrorism and Islamofacism might just be a little more difficult than dominating and oppressing a completely defenseless, religious-based country like you did.
1.) I did not do what you said I did.
2.) It is a hotbed of terrorism and Islamofascism because of failed post-Saddam planning and bungled or botched post war operations. There is really no one to blame but yourselves for this.
1) You used "you" as a collective term for the US, therefore I used "you" as a collective term for the PROC. And yes, the PROC did do as I said: see Tibet.
2) Yes, we know this already. We've heard it a thousand times. Anything new to add?
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1) You used "you" as a collective term for the US, therefore I used "you" as a collective term for the PROC. And yes, the PROC did do as I said: see Tibet.
I used "you" as a collective term for those chicken hawks who not only supported the war in Iraq, but who also think that the US should take over the world.
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BTW: Here's a disturbing update (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1839522,00.html) on the whole Iraqi rape issue.
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Dear ****ing God...
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Dear ****ing God...
There is no god......
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As that article thoroughly demonstrates.