Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Solidus on July 31, 2006, 10:23:46 pm
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Hi.I'm totally new to space sims and I tried playing freespace 2 with a mouse and keyboard but it just doesn't work.Could someone please recommend a good,solid joystick.What about the Logitech Attack 3 and Extreme digital 3d pro?
Also I'm playing fs2 on a Sony Vaio notebook with an nvidia Ge force 7400 go graphics card.I clicked the detect available cards button but fs2 could not detect the nvidia gpu.Any way to get around this?Thanks for your time.
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Gunnery control, open fire!
(http://www.hard-light.net/forums/Smileys/HLP/welcome2hlpbb.gif)
Welcome to HLP! Exits are nowhere. Flame throwers are under the seats. plasma cannons and shotguns can be found in the weapons lockers, but only :v:, the admins, and some "hyperintellegent shade of blue" as they call themselves can use those. If you see a Shivan in the air ducts, that's just Carl. Give him your lunch, and you should be fine. Recommended reading is karajorma's FAQ (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/FAQ/intro.html) and the Wiki (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page).
You are my first kill.
BTW, I should answer you. I have a Logitech Attack 3. :)
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What about the Logitech Attack 3 and Extreme digital 3d pro?
If I remember right, Logitech Attack 3 doesn't have a twist handle, so you will lack a very important axis, as you can't use two separate controllers with Freespace...
About Extreme 3D Pro: stay away from it. They often die at fast rate. Mine did, and there have been numerous reports of similar problems than I did.
I had similar problems with my stick as described here (http://www.everythingusb.com/hardware/index/Logitech_Extreme_3D_Pro.htm) and apparently, Attack 3 (http://www.everythingusb.com/hardware/index/Logitech_Attack_3_Joystick.htm) has also had its share of quality problems.
I've got a Saitek Cyborg Evo, and I daresay I got my money's worth on it. Works perfectly, compared to Logitech products.
As for Freespace 2 "not working" with mouse and kbd - is it "not working" working, or "I can't play it like this"-working? :p
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Thank you for the colorful welcome SSX-KHAN.I followed your links and found the info. quite helpful although a bit confusing.It seems I need to learn a lot about the Fs2 community.
@Herra Tohtori,thank you for your very detailed reply on logitech joysticks.I found your info. very helpful.I'd say you just saved me a bit of money.The mouse and keyboard combo is -"I can't play it like this" working but after reading other posts by players who are apparently very proficient with a mouse I think I'm just whining and if I give it some time maybe I'll be able to play with a mouse as well.As for the nvidia card, I was wondering,is there some kind of patch that lets Fs2 detect newer cards?
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It doesn't detect your video card? :wtf:
And Herra, I don't understand the need for a twist handle. The Attack 3 is an awsome joystick. I've had it since PXO went down and not one single problem. Also, 11 buttons is nifty. I only even use the 2 main ones and the 3 others on top. I think any more buttons would be overkill tbh.
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What about the Logitech Attack 3 and Extreme digital 3d pro?
If I remember right, Logitech Attack 3 doesn't have a twist handle, so you will lack a very important axis, as you can't use two separate controllers with Freespace...
About Extreme 3D Pro: stay away from it. They often die at fast rate. Mine did, and there have been numerous reports of similar problems than I did.
Lies, the extreme 3D pro is still working after 6 months of use.
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Lies, the extreme 3D pro is still working after 6 months of use.
That's usually when they start to go.
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ive been running with a saitek st290, it works pretty good but from what i can tell, its a step down from the cyborg evo, and stay away from ANY joystick or gamepad with a cord that reels in, and looks like a IDE cable, worst cord ever....i also have a wingman extreme, i havnt been able to use it because i have no gameport and need an adapter, but from how it looks, it seems high-ish quality...
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No need to call them lies. :p
Of course there are (and must be) many properly working Logitech sticks per one faulty one, but according to user experience from plenty of other people besides me, the percentage of the faulty products is alarmingly high. Thus I wouldn't want to risk my money for it.
I'm glad that your stick works all right, Cobra. My Saitek also works perfectly after about 8 months of use, as any joystick should work. My 3D Pro also worked for about 4-6 months (can't reemember correctly). Then it just started having more and more symptoms similar to those described on links. Unfortunately, my use of that stick was... sporadic, and when it died, the warranty was over, so that was the story of that stick. Shame, really, because it is a killer stick as long as it works. Great shape and button placement, and the base stays where it's put.
Oh, and about twist handle: I know it's not *necessary*, but once you get your first stick with a twist handle, you realize how much you have missed. :D After all, it gives you 50% more control compared to a stick with just pitch and yaw axis (in space sims), as it adds one more easily controllable axis to your ships movements: the roll axis. And of course, rudder is a must to have if you play any flight sim games at all. Twist handle is a very useful function IMO, but it all comes to the question "what kind of games you play?" With flight sims, you NEED a rudder; in space shooters you can manage without the roll axis.
And about playing Freespace with mouse and keyboard; it works best when you put the mouse sensitivity to maximum. That way you don't need to drag/move the mouse half as much as with lower sensitivity settings. Joystick kicks ass when you have to dogfight; if you need to, say, pound energy mines with Maxim from a great distance, mouse gives better accuracy. Somehow, I tend to think that the joystick is the only real way to go with space shooters... :p
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har. i only use my 3D pro as a backup in case anything happens to my shiny X52. :nervous:
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i just got a second (technically, third) joystick,considerably cheap though. its a saitek st90.....2 axis 3 buttons and a digital throttle, 20 bucks, it works, as a secondary stick in descent three...right (main) hand controls my saitek st290, yaw pitch roll and main weaponry, whereas my left hand controls strafing forward backwords left right up down and missiles (stick controls all strafing except up and down, which is controled by the two other buttons)
i just wish i could get this setup running on FS2....any chance anyone has any tips for 2 joysticks in FS2?
(oh yeah, the st290 rocks, but the st90 is cheap, but works ok for what i use it for)
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no, you can't use 2 joysticks in FS2.
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I would recommend a Saitek or a CH joystick. If you have the money, go CH. The CH products are known for their great quality. But, of course, the downside is that they are expensive. Especially if you go for a complete HOTAS setup.
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no, you can't use 2 joysticks in FS2.
well...technically.....if i programmed something to convert joystick signals into keyboard signals....or learn how to rig it up hardware wise....or go and get saiteks software..... (yeah, this was all ment as introspect..)
anyways, saitek and ch joysticks rock, my saitek has lasted forever, and my old ch lasted 2 and a half years...
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Wow.Lots of differing opinions here.I sort of expected that though.As Herra Tohtori says how long a stick lasts really seems to differ from person to person and how frequently they use it.I mean I have a Logitech Momo wheel and after just a few months of hard racing ,the pedals suddenly stopped working completely,probably due to intense use.Other players,though seem to keep their momo's going for years somehow.
Anyway the Logitech Attack 3 seems to be quite inexpensive and I might give it a try since I've never used a joystick before so there's the novelty factor for me as well and I can't find anything better right now.I'll be happy if it works for 6-8 months without problems.I'll upgrade to a saitek later on if I can find one.What about the Microsoft Sidewinder though?No one seems to talk about it...an overrated product?
As for the graphics card problem,I've decided to install Fs2 open(don't relly understand what it is).It's supposedly has enhanced features and might detect my nvidia 7400 notebook only graphics card.Oh and thanks everyone for your input.
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Ehhh, laptop graphics might have a difficult time with FSO. just FYI.
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Nobody makes really decent joysticks anymore, so just find one that has enough buttons and axis for you and, most important, is comfortable for you to use!!
I still use my bazillion-year old Sidewinder 3D Pro, which was and still is a fantastic piece of hardware. (I'm praying like smeg I can get one of Grendel's SW3DPro->USB HID convertor boxes so I can still use it when I upgrade my system and they phase out gameports!! :eek: :hopping: )
One of my friends uses a mutant X-Box Controller S (Surprisingly usable!!), while another uses some sort of Saitek Cyborg stick and another uses a keyboard/mouse combo (Bastard's lethal at long-range but gets pwned in a turn-fight ;)). My brother uses a Thrustmaster Cougar HOTAS with CH Products rudder pedals.
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Nobody makes really decent joysticks anymore, so just find one that has enough buttons and axis for you and, most important, is comfortable for you to use!!
I know, my favorite joystick is an ancient CH Flightstick. Three buttons, the "hat", and a trigger. That thing has gotten me through sooooo many Descent levels. :)
But it's plug is incompatible with modern machines. So I got a Logitech Extreme Pro. :lol:
And, FYI, it's still running after 9 months of use.
Don't worry I still use the Flightstick when I play Descent. :yes:
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I know, my favorite joystick is an ancient CH Flightstick. Three buttons, the "hat", and a trigger. That thing has gotten me through sooooo many Descent levels. :)
But it's plug is incompatible with modern machines. So I got a Logitech Extreme Pro. :lol:
Most CH products come with USB connectors nowadays. I have a CH 568 Combatstick USB. The Flightstick has a hat, one trigger, and three buttons. The Combat stick has a hat, trigger, five buttons, and a 4-way button. I paid a lot of money for it, but when I compare it to other joysticks, I can't find anything close to the quality. I personally would recommend the Combatstick for Freespace 2. The extra buttons on the Fighterstick (it goes Flightstick - Combatstick - Fighterstick) probably won't be used and isn't worth the price jump. The Fighterstick just changes three of the normal buttons into 4-way buttons (a net gain of nine buttons). Going up a version will cost about $20, but the price fluctuates a lot (around $80-130 for each). So, you can probably find a good deal online.
Sorry about the rant. If you don't want to spend all that money, just buy a Saitek. I hear they are pretty decent too, and popular amongst the flight-sim community. For about the same price as a CH Fighterstick, you can get a Saitek x52 HOTAS setup (joystick and throttle). And I hear the Saitek x52 throttle is actually very good.
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Saitek makes some great joysticks and gamepads, they're lasting, and not too expensive. On the other hand my most favorite gamepad was the gravis xterminator. That thing just had some shoulder buttons and underneath buttons that are just unparalleled on any other gamepad i've seen to date. Too bad gravis isn't quite doing anything right now. I had a logitech gamepad once, wasn't very good, only used it once :p
I got a madcatz xbox360 controller for fs2, i have yet to see how that one lasts as awesome of a controller it is :D
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How do I make it to be able to twitch in FS open!?!?
Does it not work in newer builds, since it works in Babylon which is 3.6.7?
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Saitek makes some great joysticks and gamepads, they're lasting, and not too expensive. On the other hand my most favorite gamepad was the gravis xterminator. That thing just had some shoulder buttons and underneath buttons that are just unparalleled on any other gamepad i've seen to date. Too bad gravis isn't quite doing anything right now. I had a logitech gamepad once, wasn't very good, only used it once :p
I got a madcatz xbox360 controller for fs2, i have yet to see how that one lasts as awesome of a controller it is :D
I'm still using my Gravis Xterminator to this day! It is a superb gamepad, 11 buttons 4 axis hat switch and very durable (I got mine about five years ago and it's still going strong, perfect working order)
I prefer gamepads to joystick anyway, I'd probably get pwned in multiplayer mode, but still it's great!
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How do I make it to be able to twitch in FS open!?!?
Does it not work in newer builds, since it works in Babylon which is 3.6.7?
you can maybe Mantis it? We're not the SCP coders you know.
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But I'm the noobies of noobs!
What is mantis pls?
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But I'm the noobies of noobs!
What is mantis pls?
Mantis is a bug tracking program.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,34786.0.html
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Not a mantis problem. I think I covered a possible reason for this on Asmo's other thread. (basically that he didn't have the axis bound)
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I have a solid recommendation!
Logitech Wingman Force 3D!
It's a force-feedback joystick with a throttle, twist handle, and 8-way HAT. It has 7 programamble buttons, and is a good negotiation between price and features. It uses USB 2.0, and may come with the Colossus version of Freespace.
I use the joystick constantly, and rate it 8/10. It's about $50 at a CompUSA.
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Oi pway fweespace wiff moi keybowd amd moufh :shaking:.
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I use the Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. It wasn't that expensive, it's got a twist axis (good for banking) and a cheap throttle axis (semi-good), a hat controller (used to look behind/left/right/top of you (again use full) 6 buttons on the top of the shaft, and 6 more on the base (top 6 I use for shooting, burner, targeting, and CM. Base 6 I use for equilize sheilds, target bomb, target escort, target subsystem, re-arm ship, and enter subspace.)
Overall good:
USB connection
12 buttons
twist axis
throttle axis
4 axis hat
adjustable handrest (on the shaft I.E. place your hand on a little platform connected to the shaft)
adjustable button locations (if you have small hands, you can move the 6 buttons on the shaft lower down so you can reach)
cool blue lights while on
Overall bad:
gets hot
requires extra outlet to plug large AC adaptor (120v alternating to 24v direct)
EDIT: didn't read Herra's post. ahh well, this one makes it look even better.
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Oi pway fweespace wiff moi keybowd amd moufh :shaking:.
Doesn't that get spit all over the keys? :p
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Nuh-uh!! Oi pways wiff moi hakeychieff.
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FS2 Noob here. I was just trying out the my Saitek 290 Pro. It's nice, but only has one hat, trigger and 5 buttons plus throttle. I put the adjustable rest in the middle position and my thumb reaches the buttons and hat perfectly. The only problem is the silly backswept bump at the upper end of the handle digs into my palm a bit. Where that bulge continues around the side could be a problem for players with small hands or short fingers. (Like many girls and women. Babes like joysticks, right? ;) ) *rolls right, pitches down and punches afterburners*
My Wingman Extreme 3D Digital has one more button, and one of them can be programmed as Shift, giving it 12 accessible functions onboard. The software also allows all the buttons AND all four axes to be mapped to keyboard buttons so it can be used for games that don't have stick support. Too bad it's impossible to use left handed because it'd be great for secondary functions paired up with the Saitek.
I bought the Saitek because after moving (and still not having all my techy stuff unpacked) I can't find the Wingman. :P
That's actually my second WE3DD stick. The first one I got off the display at Staples for $20 cuz they weren't going to sell it anymore and the twist wouldn't go all the way to one side. I called Logitech, 'splained the problem and they sent me a new stick, including the USB adaptor. (The one off the display shelf didn't have one.)
Since I didn't have to send the old one back, I took it apart. :) There must have been a bit of something stuck in the twist setup because when I put it back together it worked fine. I also checked it over to see where the gobbed on silicone grease could be moved around to other moving parts to smooth it up. There was also a bit of binding in the throttle which some VERY CAREFUL pocketknife work cured. Then I did the same to the new one.
The first WE3DD I sold with a PC I built to sell for some $. (Which made the one I kept better than free.)
The stick I'd really like to lay hands on is an original Saitek Cyborg Gold (or was that Pro Gold?). ISTR it was USB, had not only adjustable 2-axis tilt for the button cluster but also the trigger was adjustable AND the throttle lever could be mounted on the left or right side. The current Cyborg line of sticks is a pale shadow of the original as far as adjustability and left/right hand configuration.
Other sticks I have.
Logitech Wingman. Plain old ordinary 2-axis, 2 buttons on stick, but very sturdy and stable with a big base. Olde gameport type.
Some elcheapo plastiko 2-axis, 2-buttons on stick with selectable autofire. Olde gameport type. I broke the spring hooks on both axes playing Duke Nukem 2. (Shaking off monsters is hard on sticks!) A couple of heated straight pins and some super glue made reinforced metal hooks that never failed!
Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro MACINTOSH version. The last model of joystick ever made for the Macintosh ADB port. Never have gotten Game Sprockets to work with the damn thing. I should eBay it... when I find it. Probably in a box with the WE3DD.