Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kazan on November 23, 2001, 09:35:00 pm
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Aurora to 50 degrees magnetic latitude likely Saturday and Sunday
see www.spaceweather.com (//"http://www.spaceweather.com")
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Who do you trust?
The Guy that wrote an operating system to sell
or the Guys that wrote an operating system to use
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"Why Climb it?" - "Because it's there."
"God is dead." - Nietzsche
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FreeSpace 2: The Babylon Project Effects Nerd and Programmer. (//"http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon")
Alliance Productions (//"http://alliance.sourceforge.net")
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Who cares?
seroiusly, who cares about this stuff?
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people who would like to see the Aurora with their own eyes.. now frell off fudgepacker
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Originally posted by Kazan:
fudgepacker
LMAO (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
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hehe im in a great mood aren't i?
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You've seen it when it appears to be just feet above your head (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
My first time in the field in AK we got a view like that,..even the guys that had been there a few years and got "used to" the aurora just stopped and stared blankly for a bit.
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Fudgepacker? well thats was err.. I don't have a clue (do people actualy pack fudge these days (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif))
Your creative with the insults but you know the song... "I fought the LAW and the LAW won!" ( (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) he he)
I don't have tiiem to watch lights in sky, got modding to do!
[This message has been edited by LAW ENFORCER (edited 11-23-2001).]
[This message has been edited by LAW ENFORCER (edited 11-23-2001).]
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I got modding to do as well, but thats not stopping me from watching..
or having a social life for that matter either...
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hmm.. then why are you talking trash to me.. you have to use _my_ utils (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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I get more MODing done that way! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
(I actualy meant the first question as an actual question! not a 'Who Cares!' gib...)
Oh yer and you react the funnyst anywhere! all the stupid newbies! ha! ha! that one kept me laughing for a few nights!
[This message has been edited by LAW ENFORCER (edited 11-23-2001).]
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Originally posted by Kazan:
hmm.. then why are you talking trash to me.. you have to use _my_ utils (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
He HAS to?
Actually I've YET to use one of them (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
Four fighters, two destroyers, one station, and a mega cannon WIP. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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Just wish firepoints worked! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/frown.gif)
Im lazy! damn it!
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Originally posted by Warlock:
He HAS to?
Actually I've YET to use one of them (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
Four fighters, two destroyers, one station, and a mega cannon WIP. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
you're using gary's tools?
you're foolish - do you even know _WHY_ i wrote POF Constructor Suite... do you know what the problems are with gary's compiler that aren't with mine
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Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER:
Just wish firepoints worked! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/frown.gif)
Im lazy! damn it!
firepoints work
what version are you using
------------------
Who do you trust?
The Guy that wrote an operating system to sell
or the Guys that wrote an operating system to use
---------------
"Why Climb it?" - "Because it's there."
"God is dead." - Nietzsche
-----------------
FreeSpace 2: The Babylon Project Effects Nerd and Programmer. ("http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon")
Alliance Productions ("http://alliance.sourceforge.net")
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Do you know I've YET to have ANY problems at all?
Do you know I use the new MV32 for most of my POF editting?
For all the talk about problems with it and don't use submodels yada yada yada,..I've been doing quite fine.
Not knocking you're tools Kazan...just don't act like yours are all we've got to MOD with or something (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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I use a bunch of utils....
Kazans mainly, but a few others...
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I use PCS to do all the stuff MV32 carn't which is quite a lot!
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Originally posted by Kazan:
firepoints work
what version are you using
its was about .98 ish when I last ried, I have 1.0 now but am pushing LOADs of other stuff so havn't tried it again... *looks foolish*
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Originally posted by Warlock:
Do you know I've YET to have ANY problems at all?
how about collision detection
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The (outer) wings on my fighter go through things is that meant to happen?
(It was MUCH worse before, 12 fighter pileup on shipping lanes etc)
[This message has been edited by LAW ENFORCER (edited 11-23-2001).]
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Originally posted by Kazan:
how about collision detection
Well I've used a custom fighter in VERY test mission,..hell in most of my fun homemade ones at that...never had a single problem that wasn't generated by myself (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
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Aurora to 50 degrees magnetic latitude likely Saturday and Sunday
Thanks Kazan. I'll be watching (nothing tonight)...very clear tho.
About two weeks ago we had a FANTASTIC one....covered the entire sky with dancing lights.
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for thouse who are not useing PCS I pitty you, Kazan may be a jackass but he makes the best compilers and editors in the comunity
the old cob2fs and cob2pof were crapy with the spesifics of poly data (worse than my ability to link letters into words corectly), Kazan's compiler is nearly as good as V's own (just has a hard time with obseenly long and thin things)all models made by me are compiled and for the most part edited in PCS (engine glows and gun points are just too easy with MV's GUI) I have only rarly used the other compilers when I'm in a hurry and need to compile a model a bunch of times realy fast and don't care how it will perform in game (during construction) if you are for some reason still useing one of the old cob converters I strongly recomend you swich to PCS
and as for the topic......
...
..
...... I like the prety shiny lights (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
[This message has been edited by Bobboau (edited 11-23-2001).]
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Enough with the name calling please (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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I don't get why you need space weather. After all, it's pretty much all 'Lows at 4' K, Highs at 400, radiation warning and a chance of meteorite'. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
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(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)!
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just a difference: cob2pof will export smoothing datas, and PCS doesn't. And that sux a lot, dude.
(didn't try with the last version, tho)
[This message has been edited by venom2506 (edited 11-24-2001).]
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Originally posted by venom2506:
just a difference: cob2pof will export smoothing datas, and PCS doesn't. And that sux a lot, dude.
(didn't try with the last version, tho)
[This message has been edited by venom2506 (edited 11-24-2001).]
how many times do i have to tell you - THAT'S NOT DOCUMENTED IN THE POF FORMAT
and i had gary beta testing my compiler also and he said nothing about it... so if you learn the file specs.. hex edit the files and find where thi data is then i can add it
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The GeoMagnetic storm reached G5 (extreme - top of the scale) levels this morning
it's currently at G4
it's going to be cloudy here until tommorow (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/frown.gif) so hopefully the KP values stay high enough
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Originally posted by Kazan:
how many times do i have to tell you - THAT'S NOT DOCUMENTED IN THE POF FORMAT
and i had gary beta testing my compiler also and he said nothing about it... so if you learn the file specs.. hex edit the files and find where thi data is then i can add it
ok, I'm getting slightly pissed off there:
I don't givez a damn f*ck of what you say!!! I know what I see damnit! I converted my planet with PCS, it was a crappy piece of **** with visibles polygons, then I converted it, with cob2pof, and it lookd just fine, smoothed and all! And if, because you're so narrow minded, you don't believe me, here is the damn proof!!!:
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ott/variouspics/mission0101.jpg) edit: oh, and I can't even make a line in Visual Basic so to tell you where to look at in a hex editor...
I don't say that' I'm a programmer, but you do. So show me.
[This message has been edited by venom2506 (edited 11-24-2001).]
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:lol
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Originally posted by Kazan:
The GeoMagnetic storm reached G5 (extreme - top of the scale) levels this morning
it's currently at G4
it's going to be cloudy here until tommorow (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/frown.gif) so hopefully the KP values stay high enough
(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/eek.gif) http://sec.noaa.gov/rt_plots/kp_3d.html ("http://sec.noaa.gov/rt_plots/kp_3d.html")
[This message has been edited by Top Gun (edited 11-24-2001).]
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"cob2pof will export smoothing datas, and PCS doesn't"
I've been doing almost nothing but terran models for the last four months, hadn't notesed that.
Kazan, It is in there some were
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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
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Originally posted by venom2506:
ok, I'm getting slightly pissed off there:
I don't givez a damn f*ck of what you say!!! I know what I see damnit! I converted my planet with PCS, it was a crappy piece of **** with visibles polygons, then I converted it, with cob2pof, and it lookd just fine, smoothed and all! And if, because you're so narrow minded, you don't believe me, here is the damn proof!!!:
I DIDN'T SAY I DIDN'T BELEIVE YOU [B}I SAID IT'S NOT ******* DOCUMENTED![/B] I DONT HAVE THE GOD DAMNED TIME TO FIND OUT WHERE THIS BURIED FEATURE IS!
BTW I CAN SEE THE POLYS IN YOUR "SMOOTHED" IMAGE
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YOU WANT THE FIND THE ******* SMOOTHING DATA?
HERE"S THE ******* FILE FORMAT! HAVE FUN IN THE BRAIN DRAIN ZONE!
POF SPECS: http://www.freespace-2.com/ddn/specs/pof/ ("http://www.freespace-2.com/ddn/specs/pof/")
IDTA/BSP SPECS FOR POF BSP DATA: http://www.freespace-2.com/ddn/specs/idta/ ("http://www.freespace-2.com/ddn/specs/idta/")
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(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif) ROFLMAO! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
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every time he's showed me pictures of the two different compilers side by side I have seen the same thing.. and i have a very descriminating eye
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Kazan
simmer down
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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
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no.. im tired of bull**** out of the mouths of people that don't know what the **** they were talking about
if it's not Ace ranting about how my installer and VP constructor screwed up his VP files only on _SOME_ computers (which isn't possible - they would work on all or not at all)
or
venom talking about 'smoothing' data that doesn't exist
i'm tired of bad PR from the mouths of unqaulified laymen that are suffering from massive ignorance and placebo effects
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here are two diferent POFs identical but for the shading ("http://members.home.net/bobboau/diference.zip")
looking at it in a hex editor I see a repeting diference starting at offset 00000150
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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
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that was made by WinCOB2FS2 BTW
and we arn't completely ignorant, we are just trying to help you find a bug or two in your code, even if we can't understand the POF file formatt or C++ programing we are giveing you as much information as we can to help you find the problem.
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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
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i can see the difference in that one.. investigating
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erg.. double
[This message has been edited by Kazan (edited 11-24-2001).]
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so each vertex in each poly has its own normal?
could it be that is how it gradates the lighting from one vertex to another
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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
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could be.. im going to have to do a full BSP dump on the files i think
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Originally posted by Kazan:
no.. im tired of bull**** out of the mouths of people that don't know what the **** they were talking about
if it's not Ace ranting about how my installer and VP constructor screwed up his VP files only on _SOME_ computers (which isn't possible - they would work on all or not at all)
or
venom talking about 'smoothing' data that doesn't exist
i'm tired of bad PR from the mouths of unqaulified laymen that are suffering from massive ignorance and placebo effects
Dude the only bad PR I've seen is in like half the posts you make. Whenever someone points out something in one of your scripts or a render or whatever...you go ballistic. Damn man who the hell did you get through school without being placed in an angermanagement home?? I thought you were making all these things FOR these ppl. You know....the ones you call idoits on a regualr basis. Hell I remember even seeing you go off on Dave B a few times back in the day.
Just a note ..You are not a god. You are nothing special.[/i]
Now feel free to b!tch at me all you want. But if you can't learn to handle critisim, even if it's baised, then I suggest you stop making things for public use since..well,..you're ALWAYS going to hear about someone not being happy with something. It's a fact of life...deal with it, you'll find life much easier and more enjoyable that way.
*Passes Kazan some vallum.*
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holy **** .. the bsp compiles are the same length
ok.. the DEFPOINTS are different for the two.. im writing a BSP data dumper right now so i can see what's up
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**** you warlock.. you just dont get it and you cannot tell the difference between 'constructive criticism' and 'useless ******* ranting'
Venom showed me a bunch of stuff which proved nothing
Bob took five minutes figured out something to show me in which i could see a difference and now im working on adding this nice feature to PCS
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I wasn't just referring to this single thread. You're Constantly belittling everyone that says or does anything that's not in total aggreement with you. But then again I don't expect you to notice it.
And do you really think cursing and name calling is really going to get your point across to anyone or just make ppl then you've got some serious mental issues?
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i'm always annoyed by people that _THINK_ they know what they're talking about
this is the only time one of the people was actually correct.. i shouldn't SEE it .. now i can
Bob- you're absolutely correct - it's the point normals.. because my renderer doesn't use them and you cannot see the difference between the two models.. it looks like he averaged them
[This message has been edited by Kazan (edited 11-24-2001).]
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well.. i just added them to the rendering routines.. and they dont quite look right.. but i'll have to investigate exactly how they work more
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I'm not going to go into Kazan's interpersonal socal skills untill after he has fixed this bug
and looking at the data the only thing diferent between the two models seems to be the normals in the defpoints section
the flat shaded one has diferent normals for each poly the (thus each poly has one normal, as the four normals in the poly are a the same)
smooth shaded one has the same normal for each poly it is part of (so it blends the shading to its nabor and acrossits surfas)
it looks like I was right (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
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Poor kid you'll be annoyed alot in life then.
Venom as far as I've seen as yet to say he knew what the problem WAS. Just that it WAS there and he was pointing it out. It's kinna like several games with problems right now and the companies only reply is "Our patch fixed it on OUR computer, you must be wrong and the problem has been fixed"
Oh and Kazan,..play nice,..I didn't curse you or call you names,..so try to at least act mature.
You act like you're the only guy that's ever done something for others and had it picked apart. What about all the ppl here that bust there butts to make their first model..they post it..and it gets torn apart by ppl that don't even have a 3D app on their computer?
Or are you really just doing all this for attention or something? I mean damn..if you're really out to help the community,..you should accept the fact ppl that don't have the first clue about programing will step up and point out problems. For the most part they're only tryig to point out what can be done to make something better.
So ditch the damn ego trip, it's not exactly endeering ppl to you.
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will we finaly get the aoutfaceting shading to work
it would also be nice to have some way to edit the normals of these verts in some way so we can make cool lighting effects.
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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
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warlock you dont even know what you're talking about.. really
you dont know why i was annoyed with him - and it's not because he was pointing out a bug in my program
it was because he was pointing out a bug and couldn't present any HARDEVIDENCE of it and kept annoying me with it
what happens when people report bugs in my programs to me and can prove they exist? they get fixed
what happens when people report bugs in my programs to me and cannot prove they exist? they annoy me by repeating it several times
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Bob: the smooth one has all the point normals for each point averaged.. not a difficult thing to do at all - added to codebase now
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The guy was TRYING to prove it to you. You've missed my point,...does that still give you the right to act the way you do towards ppl?
Hell when I made a comment about never having to use your utils..first thing out your hole is I'm being foolish. That'd be like me saying anyone not using one of my models had no taste or something. I enjoyed making what I have so far, if others enjoy so much the better, if noone but myself ever so much as downloads any of it, oh well..I'll still enjoy it and all the time I put into it.
Next time someone points out a flaw and they can't prove it to you, try asking and telling them exactly what you need as proof and then tell them you'll do what you can to fix it,..hell even if you've got no clue what it is or what to do...sometimes just saying "Yea I hear you..lemme see what I can do" is enough.
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I meant auto-faceting, it is something that no other compiler has had untill now
it's sort of halfway between flat (faceted) shadeing and smooth shading it is the default shading setting in TS4.
with auto-faceting you can have faces that are semi-smooth. you can see it in a lot of V meshes, the main hull of the Ravana has one of the best examples ot it.
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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
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if i knew the algorithm
PCS now has smooth shading and i owe venom an apology
[This message has been edited by Kazan (edited 11-24-2001).]
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Simmer down children. I mean it.
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just so everyone knows what I'm talking about
(http://members.home.net/bobboau/texturethigy.jpg)
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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
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i knew what you mean
btw move to thread: http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/Forum13/HTML/001407.html ("http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/Forum13/HTML/001407.html")
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Originally posted by Kazan:
every time he's showed me pictures of the two different compilers side by side I have seen the same thing.. and i have a very descriminating eye
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ott/variouspics/pcsvscob2pof.jpg)
small planet with pcs, big with cob2pof.
let me know what your very discriminating eye sees.
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i can see it that time!!!!!
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oh, warlock: kazan was pissed off, coz I was... you know the viscious circle stuff. Hard to say that, but I was the first one to swear. For my part, kazan told me he was right, I apologized for being so agressive, and now that story is over. The smoothing stuff will be fixed and everybody should be happy now (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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you mean told you i was wrong
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Isn't it great when stories have a happy ending. And like all things on this Earth, there is an ending. As this thread has reached.
If you really to continue discussions on space weather, feel free to open a new topic.