Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Dark RevenantX on August 06, 2006, 09:28:18 pm
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I'm a big fan of the High Dynamic Range effect, rather than that HDRish or bloom effect. Obviously, it will be a while before you (the SCP team) can get to the point that you can implement it, but I would like to know roughly what needs to be implemented before you can get to work on the more advanced shaders.
I'm not asking for you to jump to HDR! I just want something along the lines of a progress report.
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You didn't notice the earlier thread on shaders? There's some progress, and I believe taylor intends on including the shaders in initial post-3.6.9 builds.
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HDR needs more than just code support. The content of the game needs to be HDR compatible. I'm not exactly sure how to do that yet. It's possible that only the skyboxes (/nebulas/planets/suns) need some work. If it's not too much work, I'd take care of that.
Taylor said that the max pixel shader version would be 2.0 for now. That might make things more complicated... (missing tone mapping support, right?)
I'm a big fan of the High Dynamic Range effect, rather than that HDRish or bloom effect. Obviously, it will be a while before you (the SCP team) can get to the point that you can implement it, but I would like to know roughly what needs to be implemented before you can get to work on the more advanced shaders.
I'm not asking for you to jump to HDR! I just want something along the lines of a progress report.
Yes, the sooner we get all the bug out of the 3.6.9 builds, the sooner we'll get shader support.
HDR is a really nice feature. I may be wrong, but I don't think FS2 would gain as much by it as a first person shooter does. You're mostly in the dark space. There hardly are surfaces that could relect the light, nor much stuff that would look different with the blooming side effect. (Yeah... it's not blooming, but that's the part most people like. ;) )
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True, but it would look REALLY good when a beam goes off or a laser shot flys in front of you.
I'm glad that you are working on this, but as you said, the bugs must come first.
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HDR needs more than just code support. The content of the game needs to be HDR compatible. I'm not exactly sure how to do that yet. It's possible that only the skyboxes (/nebulas/planets/suns) need some work. If it's not too much work, I'd take care of that.
Taylor said that the max pixel shader version would be 2.0 for now. That might make things more complicated... (missing tone mapping support, right?)
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hi,
HDR is possible with 2.0 shaders, but thats cant use the full precision with 16-FP and imho theres some other technical limitations and, imho, is easier to realise.
but its look not so bad and its work, there is a old Demo of ATI for the Radeon 9700 with HDR.
and in HL2 you can use HDR with 2.0
the greater problem, imho, is that 2.0 HDR need seperate content.
so if you have as designer an engine with 2.0 and 3.0 HDR you must make all two times.
so the most studios make only a bloom shader for 2.0 and the real HDR only for 3.0 avabile.
to freespace: i doesnt think an Full HDR support is really need in the future.
i think theres enough easier stuff to implant to improve the visual quality.
and the problem is with HDR-Content, its not easy to create really good HDR content.
the most games have some realitic issuses with HDR and theres people they pay for there work.
so i think in the moment is HDR with the content a to big fish.
its better to invest the time and energie in shaders, more shadows and other stuff, as try to implante a full HDR support.
an good bloom-shader is, imho, for the next time good enough.
Mehrpack
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Yes, the sooner we get all the bug out of the 3.6.9 builds, the sooner we'll get shader support.
HDR is a really nice feature. I may be wrong, but I don't think FS2 would gain as much by it as a first person shooter does. You're mostly in the dark space. There hardly are surfaces that could relect the light, nor much stuff that would look different with the blooming side effect. (Yeah... it's not blooming, but that's the part most people like. ;) )
HDR is not only for bright lights and blooming, it also increases the color range for texture etc., and it increases the contrast in dark area.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_imaging
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_rendering
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What's your point? I agree with Dabrain: asking for one particular shader is ridiculous. Other shaders would be as useful or more useful, HDR is just the shader most people know of.
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Huh? Correct me if I'm wrong, but HDR is not a "shader". It's just a technique that requires shader capability to be implemented.
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True, mehrpack. I would rather see Homeworld-style shadows than the HDR effect.
Buuut... I'm not a coder/artist (yet); I shouldn't beg.
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Huh? Correct me if I'm wrong, but HDR is not a "shader". It's just a technique that requires shader capability to be implemented.
Hence, asking for the whole shader support ... for one, single, narrow feature. You're not seeing how that's lame? We'd already had a 'hey guys let's incorporate shaders' thread, and support is coming. Why anyone would say 'incorporate shader languages just to do HDR lolz' is beyond me.
And then he turns around and says 'lol I'd rather have shadows anyway'! Again, this discussion has already happened, and on a somewhat higher level than 'hdr plz'.
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the thing with HDR is that it's bloom, yes, but it doesnt lose detail like all the bloom ones do. in space, any glare would be much sharper than it would be in atmosphere, which is what bloom shaders make it look like.
and i'd be happy to help dabrain with content modification
ooh, and when we get bumpmaps too.... this game is going to have a huge freakin visual update on its hands that would bring it to the level of modern games. and there will be plenty of texture work to go around
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I dont think I ever used the acronym for "laughing out loud" on this board. Weird...
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the thing with HDR is that it's bloom, yes, but it doesnt lose detail like all the bloom ones do. in space, any glare would be much sharper than it would be in atmosphere, which is what bloom shaders make it look like.
and i'd be happy to help dabrain with content modification
ooh, and when we get bumpmaps too.... this game is going to have a huge freakin visual update on its hands that would bring it to the level of modern games. and there will be plenty of texture work to go around
Well Overlord is right. Blooming isn't a part of HDR. HDR doesn't incluse blooming, although it was added in all implementations in games afaik. Still, I don't think I'm wrong. The suns are about the only light sources in FS2. I don't think a better countrast would make much of a difference in FS2.
However I still think HDR should find it's way into the engine. It's just not as important as some other stuff. My reference for Space Shooter game graphics is X3.