Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Bob-san on August 09, 2006, 03:08:22 pm
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Hey! I was wondering if anyone had figured out a way to incorperate a player to have real-time control of capital ships...
Examples?
You and your crew are stationed on a capital ship. Two wings of enemy Loki jump in, and seal your fighter-bays. Your mission is to defend your ship. You become a gunner, and have control over a flak gun.
Another example...
You were recently promoted to Admiral, and you want to fly something other then a fighter in your missions. You are in control of a Orion Class destroyer. You are able to maneuver it, and give commands VIA wingman control on who to fire on for each side of the Destroyer.
Anyone figured out how to do this? I really want to command a Orion-class Destroyer with the ability to complete a mission without having to program a Cap Ship's routines in FRED.
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Err... Ask DarkRevantX I think he figured a way to fire an Aeolus' beam cannons at targetted ships... And there's a mission where you control a Deimos, but in that you can't control individual turrets.
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Hmm okay. I find the scripts a bit sketchy for the AI control of a cap-ship.
I remember last time I did that played the mission where you have to capture Bosch's ship (which was from the asteroid installation), toward the end... there were two NTF cruisers and I think 2 to 4 Loki wings... the VC cap ship warps in and the two NTF cruisers turn to fact it. The cruisers head toward the destroyer, and engage it. Before either are destroyed, they are too close to continue their cource, and split to each side of it.
I wonder if I someone could program a co-op mission for like 4 pplz total... 1 who navigates and can fire on ships forward. The second can control the left side and top. The third can control the right side and bottom. The fourth can have control of the missile launcher.
I'll ask him... I know on one of the Perseus missions I had control over a transport, and I remember messing up the mission when I told it to dock to the NTF cruiser... LOL...
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yeah that would suck
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i thought about scripting a bridge simulator, but it would be a major undertaking. youd need to model a bridge. you could probibly use cameras and do some code to allow you to move around the bridge sort of fps style, with some very simply designed boundries. enough to move about various stations you could probibly use the mouse to move about the bridge. if anyone can get render targets to work well enough, use that for station panels. at the helm station the joystick would work, or you can set a course from the nav panel. tactical panel would be used to assing targets to different turrets, gunner stations would allow direct control over turrets. some of this can actually be done now, if you got alot of time to code.
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...Or you could just mod Bridge Commander. Either or.
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Indeed, just use another engine better suited to the task, rather than contorting the current engine into something that would most likely end up a hackjob.
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im just saying its possible. im not saying it should be done.
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Hmm, interesting ideas on how to do it. I rather want to keep the FS2 engine, the upgrades FS2_Open engine is fine too. I just don't want to do a Freespace 2 port to another game...
I'll prolly make it my first endevour with FRED.
I was wondering if anyone knows how to mount automatic cannon turret scripts on your "bomber" (which is actually a cap ship) (such as the cannon on the Ursa? IDR if the Ursa bomber has a turret on it).
If we can mount multiable automatic turret scipts, we should be able to replicate a player-controlled Cap Ship with limited auto-fire options...
Another thing... Maybe we can make the control of the beams go between fighter/bomber and capital ships... a fast-targeting clone of the harpoon with a much shorter wait to lock. That could be the fighter/bomber script for up-front cannons. Maybe clone a Helios locking-ablility and make that the large Cap Ship beam.
We could mount multiables of each beam, by setting htem up as primary weapons... or cloning hornets into beams, and using them so they come out of 4 different areas, meeting on a single area.
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You know what, just try out that flyable deimos mission first. That mission lets you turn on and off your beams, and the rest was targetting hostiles and letting the turret ai do the rest. It worked very perfectly, piloting the deimos was a little on the slow end, i would have rather controlled a leviathen. But the deimos worked really well when you put in 3rd person or just left in the in first person view. But 3rd person was the ****, you could which of your turrets were firing or getting damaged. I don't see the need for a bridge ever anyway, nor the need to control and individual turret. Unless someone did something sweet like script a mission where you control a flak turret on the sobek in the mission where the knossos got blown up, and of course have the sobek fly around the field a bit(otherwise it'd be boring), but that would be fun. But no, you do not want to control an orion, controlling the deimos was almost a no no with it's horrible maneuverability. That's why a leviathen or fenris is a better choice. Also another thing when piloting the deimos, is you really get to see how much better, and how powerful the ship is when you fly it. And that's without modifying it's weapons :nod:
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I'm thinking of another type of mission, actually...
Perhaps I have to control a corvette defending my fleet... maybe trying to defend a terran copy of the Lucifer... while in subspace, with about a total of 10 wings of fighters or bombers... i think it could work if i modded the weapons to fire behind me...
EDIT: What mission do you fly the Deimos? Is it retail or part of a campaign?
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The Hades is a Terran copy of the Lucifer
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I'm thinking of another type of mission, actually...
Perhaps I have to control a corvette defending my fleet... maybe trying to defend a terran copy of the Lucifer... while in subspace, with about a total of 10 wings of fighters or bombers... i think it could work if i modded the weapons to fire behind me...
EDIT: What mission do you fly the Deimos? Is it retail or part of a campaign?
The Hades is an attempt to make a Terran Luci. And if you're using FSO, making the weapons fire behind you is easy. Simply make a model with a backwards firing point, and then create the table as normal. Then add "gun convergence" to the $flags. It's really good for making mine-type effects.
And the Deimos mission is (or was) a user-created mission. I believe it is gone, after the HLP revamp I don't think anybody can find it anymore. It WAS on the missions page of the old HLP.
EDIT: I found it! See attached.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Its called War.xip and its on the main bpage, If not i'll find a link.
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The real reason for it being easier in 3rd-person is it makes it much more easy to see where they are in relation to your firearcs.
I ended up flying a Volition Bravos once in Casualities of War due to a bug. The big sail structure is annoying, but just roll a little, let the heavy flaks go to work on incoming fighters...it made the mission much easier.
On the other hand the Bravos, being darn near invincible, is a bit of a special case.
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RE: Earlier post, cant find it, or a link in this forum, although i remember it being posted a few weeks back. :(
Aeolus is the most fun cruiser to fly......
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I DLed the mission...
When I get a full-install I'm probably going to "modify" the ship table to make me fly the Colossus every time... should be fun and insane to fly that through EVERY mission... quite easy too... lol.
I'll prolly mod it to fly a bigger Cap Ship each time... start with something small and then go bigger...
IS there a string to add shields to cap ships? I would rather like to modify the hard-level version to add shields on cruisers... toughen up the cruisers and then try to fly again... lol
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Is my link working?
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Your link worked, Snail... however I will have to hold off on playing the mission due to the fact that my game's build is 1.20 OEM (the Colossus version)... basically a limited version not supporting single-missions... I will have to install Freespace over Colossus... hopefully that will delete the FS2C limitations... if not I will have to delete Colossus and install FS2... if these don't work I will simply have to destroy the universe... ^^
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Is my link working?
Something of mine, In a sig....................I, am complete :( [tears of joy]
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:confused:
Uh... okay..............
With any luck ZmaN can send me the DVD with the ISOs for FS1, FS2, and FSO within this week. I am going to burn the ISOs to CD after that...
Does anyone know how to take off the limitations on FS2C? Or is it hard-writen into the installation?
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I'm going to have a mess with this for BHX. I quite like the idea of throwing in some big capship battles where you get to control something more influential than a fighter. I may even see if I can allow the player to order ships around like a strategy game. Don't know which approach I'll take yet.
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Hmm, sounds pretty good!
Is there a way to classify a player's allowed ships by their rank? So, a Rear Admiral can use any fighter or any cap ship up to corvette?
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Do you have any idea how hard it is to become a Rear Admiral? I only got that in my old pilot file in FS1, three computers ago.
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Easy. Create a mission, put it in a campaign, and put in an event:
When
True
Do-Nothing
(Repeat Count: 100000
Interval Time: 1
Score: 50000
;)
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I know how hard it is to get promoted.
I am a Lieutenant JG in Colossus, after playing it over about 10 times!
Some interesting little facts...
My primary hit percentage is about 27%.
My secondary hit percentage is about 53%.
I am a triple ace.
Yes I know how hard it is to even get Lieutenant. I am not yet there, and hopefully my FS2C pilot files will transfer smoothly to FS2 and FS2O.
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Its not hard if you play it on Hard or Insane.......... ::)
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Hard is my normal mode. If i want to get through it fast and easy i put it on medium... LOL.
I think I got 1 SD Ravana kill... that was my best kill to date.
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Lol, for some reason it says I have 513 Shivan Comm. Node Kills. :lol:
I believe it is because I was using a few MODs, and didn't change pilot. :D
BTW, on my other pilot, I have 322 kills, primary hit 2%, secondary hit 82%
82% because of my stupid Retail cheat: Load up with Rockeyes and fire madly at anything that moves in nebula (with weapon cheat, of course).
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LOL I had a 620 kill count or so... Lieutenant J.G. and over 100 Loki and Herc Mk.I kills. I am very happy with a 27% primary hit percentage.
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2% Primary Hit persentage :lol:
Probably caused by my errand shooting into nothingness because of the pretty SCP effects. ::)
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Are we talkin multiplayer? On multiplayer i had about 24% primary accuracy, 67% secondary and Grr..........I cant remeber the rest, Why didnt PXI release the server backups,..
It makes me cry :(
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Err... I only played one multiplayer mission before it began to display the 'you have custom tables installed' screen. :doubt:
On that pilot I had 32% Primary and 55% Secondary. I used a lot of Tempests in that one mission.
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OK back to topic... anyone willing to script that cruiser for me?
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Probably not, no. Most people are busy with their own projects.
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if you want to become admiral fast then do this:
go to a new fred mission and add a cain, put its initial health on 1%, give intital orders play dead, go to the score section on ship editor (it should read 150), change it to 50000000, save it as a campaign mission, play on medium and kill it. your an admiral
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That's not the point... the point of becoming an admiral in SP is to prove you have no life outside of FS, or have been playing for the better part of a decade.
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Or you could just make an event that returns true and set its score to 2039472346375637463765236752. :D
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Why? What's the big deal about ranking in the game?
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UGH This really isn't about gaining ranks...
This thread is about making a viable mission with player(s) in control of a weapon, but not control of the ship they're on.
We all know that you can have control over NAV and WEAPONS on a cruiser, corvette, destroyer, possible a juggernaught, and quite basically any other ship featured in Freespace, Silent Threat, Freespace 2, Freespace Open, and any customized ship.
I still want to know if a multiplayer campaign will allow for a person to be out of control of a ship and in control of a weapon system.
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I don't think it's possible right now. :sigh:
If this gets put in the next SCP release (hint, hint ;7), I'm sure as hell using it. I've been wanting this for quite a long time now, but I realise it isn't possible at the current time. And I don't think multi would like a ship that is under control of more than one person.
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I was actually thinking of problems without newtonian physics...
In FS2 Retail, you will always go towards your crosshairs. If you are bumped or hit, you will move, but it inflicts damage...
Is there a way to set it up so precisely so that there is no damage to the "turrets" (actually ships w/o engines or shields, etc) will be done if the "ships" that are built inside a bubble of a cap ship?
I was thinking that emplacing a specially made ship that is basically a bubble with a turret inside a bubble that keeps it from phasing outside the cap ship. This way, the pilot/gunner has control over the "turret" and another player can be the capship where he is emplaced in.
Still only thing I worry about is if the cap ship accelerates, what will happen to the hull of the turret-ship? Is there a way to make it immune to collision damage, but not collisions? I don't want collision indicator to be active the entire time either.
EDIT: I need the turrets to copy the movements exactly of the capship, while traveling in the same exact direction.
EDIT 2: Also, I'd need the ships to respawn at the same place on the capship in multi, but not the same spot in space. It has to spawn exactly X meters from the capship for it to act as a turret. In single, it would need to make the turret-ship respawn in place of another turret (that was just active).
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The respawn thing is completely impossible at the moment. You have no control over respawns in multi. It's something I plan to change post 3.6.9 because it's really pissing me off in a Beyond the Red Line mission I wrote.
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Okay... what do you think of my idea? Is there a way to eliminate collision damage?
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It should be easy enough. But how would you stop the gunner from turning 360 and shooting into the hull of the ship? That would be harder, IMO. And you would also have to stop the crashing noise when the collision happens, and stop the debris bits from flying off.
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Rather than attatch a sub-shp to an existing player entity, Is it possible to overwrite a turret ai code with a player control code?
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Oh, wow, that may work. :nod:
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Yeah, that might work. What I am worried about though is how to assign a player to the turret... You have to select your ship to be able to be in a mission... the problem I see is how do we code it to make the selected ship, say "Front Weaponry" (such as in a Leviathan cruiser) that would be the SGreen beam and some turrets. Another ship would be "Top Weaponry" that would control the rocket launcher and some other turrets.
I think it would be easier to code it by replacing the AI script with player control...
In other news, I figured out a way to play the entire FS2 campaign from Colossus. I used multiplayer and created my own server in-game. I used the AI scripts instead of player wingmen. Currently, I am nearly done with the campaign after playing a nebula mission to start from. I have gotten to the point that Capella is going to go supernova soon. The Colossus hull is down to 12% after engaging and destroying a Ravana destroyer, and has done minor damage on the Shivan Santhasa (spelling?) of about 15%. I destroyed the first SJ according to my stat log. I got Lt. JG in Multiplayer for destroying something-or-another earlier today... The Colossus was at like 72% when I left it after the first SJ was destroyed. It came back from some engagements at 54% and was disabled at the Blockade of Capella. It is now to 12% hull, with no hopes of survival (I have no Helios etc, so I can't disabled any beams on the SJ). I got it paused on MP mode...
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i want to play as the colossus. That actually sounds really sweet playing the whole game as it. You should make a colossus package as a mod or something.
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Yeah, that might work. What I am worried about though is how to assign a player to the turret... You have to select your ship to be able to be in a mission... the problem I see is how do we code it to make the selected ship, say "Front Weaponry" (such as in a Leviathan cruiser) that would be the SGreen beam and some turrets. Another ship would be "Top Weaponry" that would control the rocket launcher and some other turrets.
I think it would be easier to code it by replacing the AI script with player control...
Now im no expert, In fact my Coding stretched out to renaming the buttio=ons in the launcher etc to swearwords...
Worst case scenario, you create a turret class which is playable, Add a dockpoint, Create a custom corvette (or whatever class) with a dockpoint replacing a turret.
The start the mission initally docked.
A Player-switch-ship sexp might be handy :nervous: also....
Possible?
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Reminds me of my superfighter idea. Just make fighters with dockpoints so they can dock with each other as many as three at most, and alpha one gets to fly the fighter cluster as one having full control. If you want something really reminiscent of what you said. There is the fighter docking with an arcadia effect.
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I don't want to have them docked... it could work but I am worried about co-op missions where one dies, and respawns out of the chain.
Even if only SP, docking could be bad as one person in the chain could break the entire chain up. They all need to be one! One hull integrity, and as many as 8 laser turrets, flak guns, fighter beam, and a capship beam.
I might make a Colossus campaign if I figure out how to do it on such a large scale. I am more likely to simply make the campaign for SP and have the normal player-controlled Colossus with AI turrets. I want the capship turrets with aim control.
If I do that type of mission, I might see how different the blockade at Capella can be if you are the Colossus fighting the various CapShips. As a player I could probably take out at least three SJ's before dying.
I want to script the capship beams to be on a fire-and-forget type of clone, with a strait line of fire, instead of moving.
Any way to do that? I would even be happy with, for example, a Harpoon-type lock. Or, setting beams as primary, and having to manually aim them by moving the ship. I don't like the aiming part, but I want to make it as a missile-lock type of firing. That way, you could disable the forward beam cannons of a SJ before they all blast you. A Colossus could easily take out many SJ's one-by-one if they targeted and disabled select components of the ship before actually destroying it. Take out the forward beams. By the second firing of their beams, you have them down to as little as two beams to hit you with. A total of six beams hitting the Colossus if they disable the SJ beams gives the entire survival of the Colossus a new wind.
Anyways... has anyone figured out a way to save the Colossus in Capella? I am thinking of playing that mission again using EMP weaponry against the SJ's main beams. With any luck... the Colossus will survive, and the SJ will die. I wonder if :v: programmed another SJ to jump in and engage.
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Ah. You want something like a Freespace 2 version of B-17 Gunner: Air War Over Germany (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/g/pc_games/b_17_gunner_air_war_over_germany/overview.php).
There was an olde online multiplayer game from the earliest days of public access to the internet where several people could take positions on the same WW2 bomber. Gunners, Pilot, Co-Pilot Navigator, Bombadier. It was 3D with low-poly, flat shaded models. ISTR players may also have been able to pilot fighters individually. (At the time, I never had a PC fast enough, it really needed a 486 or mucho fast 386, I had a 286.)
Another version of this concept was used in at least one tank battle game with different players taking the positions of Driver, Commander and Gunner. It could also be run with one person doing everything, but you were busier than a man with half of one leg in a buttkicking contest, and the "AI" for the unmanned positions really stunk. (That's what the magazine reviews said, never tried it myself.)
The main problem with this is getting enough people together at once to fully crew the ship! Then there's the problem of drop-outs. Someone's connection goes *poof* and you'll definately want fast automatic handover to the AI for that position. :snipe:
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Sounds sweet, you shouldn't make it like how the harpoons lock on. Just make it as simple as stilleto targetting. Target any part of the ship and when you shoot it goes there. The deimos flyable mission i tried a while was like that, just target the ship, turn your beams and pulverize. But the thing with the deimos was that it has slashing beams. So that means targetting on the colossus would need to be more specific, like subsystem and turret specific. Otherwise targetting a capship with a beam from the colossus wouldn't work. If you target a ship without anything specific like a subsystem or turret, where the hell is the non slashing beam supposed to know where you want to shoot the vessel. Nonslashing beams on the deimos flyable mission would make it even more powerful as the weapon would be a lot more specified than swiping a beam across a vessels hull.
On the dockable fighters thing, i would just imagine that it'd be like flying around with destroyables. You fly around with a lot more lasers and secondaries, but if one of the fighters in the chain gets destroyed(hopefully not a1), then you just continue to fly around with one less docked fighter. Or for balance sake, make it so that if one of the docked ships gets destroyed, it breaks the docking chain making your have to redock again.
Another thing that would be cool like bizzybody mentioning, is weaponry quadrants. Such as front, rear, bottom, left, right, and top weaponry on the colossus. Make an overwhelming colossus mission where ships appear all around the colossus, and the player has to switch between a bunch of the weapon quadrants of the colossus. Got a ship on your front...kill it, ships warps in on your rear, switch to rear view and weapons and kill that sucker on your ass...and so on. That'd be fun, and would truly make flying capships a unique experience since capships need to actually do that ****.
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Actually in this thread I said different regions of weapons to different people. But nevermind that...
I want it to be more of a challenge to get a positive lock on your opponent. I cant just have a point-and-shoot system as I think it'll wreck the idea of captain-ing a capital ship... it'll be too easy to simply turn on weapons and let them at your current target.
I might just leave the work to the AI scripts for turrets and flak, and have a simple beam locking on target.
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You're forgetting how very slow the terran beams are. In the deimos flyable mission i could target whatever the hell i wanted with beams as long as it was a capital ship, but the main slashing beams when fired dealt a lot of damage, but took forever to recharge and fire again.
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But still it's very little strategy in flying a huge capship to just move towards and target another capship. I want to link my beams to secondaries if at all possible.
I can't seem to get the cheats to work in Colossus. I have already figured out how to run single missions though... if you press "L" (I think taht's the key) it lets you open up any mission. I am having a problem with the Demios "WAR" mission, as it crashes about 2 minutes in with colossus.