Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: aldo_14 on August 15, 2006, 04:27:58 am
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4793117.stm
Police are considering asking ministers for more powers to impose "instant justice" for anti-social activities.
The Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) may push for more powers to penalise people without a court appearance.
It has heard plans from one police chief for powers to ban teenagers from city centres and gangs from meeting up.
Civil rights group Liberty said plans were "a recipe for arbitrary justice, perceived injustice, real injustice".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,1844813,00.html
Police are pressing ministers for radical new powers to dispense instant justice, including the immediate exclusion of "yobs" from town centres at night, and bans on street gang members associating with each other, the Guardian has learned.
Senior officers say the powers would be the "modern equivalent of a clip round the ear from the local bobby" and would ensure the introduction of neighbourhood policing across England and Wales has "bite" and meets public expectations.
Sweet ****ing hesus, now I'm emigrating to somewhere free-er, like China or Zimbabwe.
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So you guys would end up with a police department full of people with a "Judge Dredd" mentality? ****......
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powers to ban teenagers from city centres and gangs from meeting up.
"Looks like my leg is broken. Too bad the nearest hospital is too close to my off limits area. Hope I don't die of blood loss on my way to the clinic down at the red lights district"
"I'm sorry I can't come to your birthday party. Constable told me I can't see my friends anymore. But uncle George keeps me company, though his big black whip hurts quite alot"
It take this as a good opportunity to say what a wonderful country Finland is :p
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It take this as a good opportunity to say what a wonderful country Finland is :p
Monty Python did a song about that! ;7
@ Aldo
This sucks man! The police in this country already think they own the streets, this will just make things worse!
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Bloody 'ell mate, you're buggered. At least no-one over here as anything like an ASBO yet.
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Best I can hope for is independence. Or moving to Canada.
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I wonder if this "instant justice" will take the form of an instant fine. ie: Tony Blair's old chestnut of an idea. Police demanding cash from hoodies and marching them to cash machines. Might be another handy source of revenue for The Police Force ltd on top of the speed cameras.
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I see I'm not the only one thinking of Judge Dread on hearing about this. It will never pass. The House of Lords will never pass it even if the government are stupid enough to try after the bloody nose Tony Blair got with the Hoodies + cash machines idea.
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I see I'm not the only one thinking of Judge Dread on hearing about this.
I'm sure most people made a bad Stallone impression upon reading the title of the thread, I know I did.
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One step closer to Brit-Cit. I cant wait :D :D :D
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The House of Lords will never pass it
I used to be dead against the House of Lords. Funny how time changes your perspective on things.
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How on earth do they plan to enforce it?
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The House of Lords will never pass it
I used to be dead against the House of Lords. Funny how time changes your perspective on things.
Funny how an unelected body of officials is the only thing that seems to be standing in the way of the UK and a police state.
How on earth do they plan to enforce it?
They can't. Imagine this situation:
A police officer stops a guy. Then the police officer demands a bribe or will take the guy to prison for life. If the guy refuses, he gets clubbed to death and the police officer goes along and makes up any story he wants.
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don't forget the stallone school on how to talk like a law enforcement officer :p
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And even further into the depths of despair goes our nation, along with any respect the population has for the police.
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A police-related quote I like from The Real YUK site ( http://www.derbygripe.co.uk/realuk/ ).
"Motoring offences, even seemingly minor ones, are deemed more serious than murder, mugging and assault and more man-hours are devoted to apprehending motorists than any other section of the community. Victims of crime are seen as "asking for it" and as such, are, by and large, ignored by the legal system in regard to compensation. All laws passed by the government only apply to members of the community who can easily be traced and therefore anyone not on the council register or not a motorist, is fairly sure to be left alone. No matter how much money and man-power is spent in catching criminals, the courts are guaranteed to return them back into society with a caution, no matter how many previous convictions they have. If, on the other hand, you're attacked and while defending yourself you inflict an injury on the other person, you will, without question, feel the full force of the law."
The guy who runs this site is a little right wing by the way and would probably go along iwth the whole Judge Dredd idea ;).
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The proposals include:
The power for police to deal with "town centre yobs" by excluding them for an "appropriate period" while they are given an informal warning or made to pay a fixed-penalty fine
Powers for a "neighbourhood constable" - armed with local knowledge - with the right to hand out a three-month ban on gang members causing disorder on estate from associating in public
The ability for police to seize and crush cars driven by those repeatedly driving without registration or insurance, no driving licence or MOT. Instant driving bans could also be imposed ahead of a court appearance
Knife crime could be targeted by giving police the ability to stop and search based on "reasonable suspicion" from previous convictions
To be honest, It doesnt sound that harsh, In schools (bear with me now) If a teacher caught us playing with stuff we shouldnt, IE cigarettes or reading smut, The teacher, qwould nick it quite rightly. If we were found massing round in the teachers carpark (often with intentions of defacing vehicles belonging to the twat who stole our beloved nicotine sticks) Then we'd get barred from the main playground for a week.
So its all a matter of perspective. In schools with a stronger will (less PC, ior softly softly approach) less problems happen.
This wont lead to a Dredd-state. It'll just curb asbo's enthusiasm slightly, Which cant be a bad thing to law-abiders anyway.
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Real Life is not a school playground CD.
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How on earth do they plan to enforce it?
With truncheons, I presume.
I note that all the suggested cases from CD include a) presumption of guilt b) no oversight upon police actions and c) seem to require some form of tracking (i.e. to monitor 'gangs' or 'yobs' and restrict their movements)
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To be honest, It doesnt sound that harsh,
Maybe it isn't at the start, but something like this could very easily turn into something a lot harsher.
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It also puts an unfair burden upon the police; normally they're judged on the decision to arrest a suspect by a fair court, but now it means every 'street conviction' is likely to see an official complaint and a morass of suspicion and paperwork.
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Real Life is not a school playground CD.
I know that i'm using it as a society model, Techers = Authoritive figures and Pupils etc = the general population,. Varying schools in my borough utilised differrent strategems in maintaining order and the status quo (an even simpler model people relate to is the supply/cover teacher model) We've all taken the piss out of first day 22 year old student teachers and caused complete chaos becaus e they had no grop on order from the get-go didn't we. Stupid teachers like the hippy fag from beavis and butthead are the current do-gooder satate and we all know whats happening now.
We need to institute some bad-lads style take no **** attittude, Corporals also know when not to squeeze, So if government can find th ebalance between control and oppression we will all be abit better, at the moment i think its a step towards normality, The police gt a little more freedom without going out gung-ho guns blazing.
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You mean the hippy fag from South Park don't you?
MMMMM Kay! :P
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Real Life is not a school playground CD.
I know that i'm using it as a society model, Techers = Authoritive figures and Pupils etc = the general population,. Varying schools in my borough utilised differrent strategems in maintaining order and the status quo (an even simpler model people relate to is the supply/cover teacher model) We've all taken the piss out of first day 22 year old student teachers and caused complete chaos becaus e they had no grop on order from the get-go didn't we. Stupid teachers like the hippy fag from beavis and butthead are the current do-gooder satate and we all know whats happening now.
We need to institute some bad-lads style take no **** attittude, Corporals also know when not to squeeze, So if government can find th ebalance between control and oppression we will all be abit better, at the moment i think its a step towards normality, The police gt a little more freedom without going out gung-ho guns blazing.
School is not a peer-system. The outside, adult world is.
We all have equal rights to freedom, right to a fair trial, etc; if you want to give the police the right to arbitrarily determine guilt and punishment, I hope you're prepared to have it applied to you, rightly or wrongly. Because all it takes is one bad - or dumb - cop to **** over the populace, and I know we have those.
We are not governed or policed by a group of 'superior humans'; these people are adults with whom we share the same basic societal rights and responsibilities (our very society is supposed to be built around the principle anyone can choose to - try and - do these jobs). This is why they call it a 'jury of peers', not a 'jury of commoners' or a 'jury of the lower classes', etc.
And the balance between control and oppression is simple; the people control the government, and there is no oppression atall allowed. We call it 'democracy', and it's about time we had some in this country.
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I mean beavis and butt-head but you got the idea, MAckay = do-gooder government.
Seargent Johnson pf Halo = how government should be.
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What, dead and then magically resurrected by Deus Ex Machina?
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Best I can hope for is independence. Or moving to Canada.
If you're trying to get away from nanny-statism, Canada's the wrong place to go. If we've passed fewer totalitarian laws than Britain, it's only because our governments have been preoccupied with internal problems in the past few years.
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Best I can hope for is independence. Or moving to Canada.
If you're trying to get away from nanny-statism, Canada's the wrong place to go. If we've passed fewer totalitarian laws than Britain, it's only because our governments have been preoccupied with internal problems in the past few years.
Of all the English speaking countries, it's the best bet so far. Anyways, nanny state does not necessarily mean a repressive state. The NHS and smoking ban are cited as nanny-statism, and I'd happily keep both.
(until I learn spanish)
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Best I can hope for is independence. Or moving to Canada.
If you're trying to get away from nanny-statism, Canada's the wrong place to go. If we've passed fewer totalitarian laws than Britain, it's only because our governments have been preoccupied with internal problems in the past few years.
Of all the English speaking countries, it's the best bet so far. Anyways, nanny state does not necessarily mean a repressive state. The NHS and smoking ban are cited as nanny-statism, and I'd happily keep both.
(until I learn spanish)
I thought the majority of Canada spoke French??
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Best I can hope for is independence. Or moving to Canada.
If you're trying to get away from nanny-statism, Canada's the wrong place to go. If we've passed fewer totalitarian laws than Britain, it's only because our governments have been preoccupied with internal problems in the past few years.
Of all the English speaking countries, it's the best bet so far. Anyways, nanny state does not necessarily mean a repressive state. The NHS and smoking ban are cited as nanny-statism, and I'd happily keep both.
(until I learn spanish)
I thought the majority of Canada spoke French??
That's mostly just Quebec and Montreal AFAIK.
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Be careful if you're thinking of moving to Canada. I know people who have moved there and they're not keen on giving jobs to foreigners.
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Of all the English speaking countries, it's the best bet so far.
What about Australia? Our Government's too busy tripping over their own feet to try make any concerted effort to pull a nanny-state on us, and our internal security agencies are far too inept to enforce it.
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Of all the English speaking countries, it's the best bet so far.
What about Australia? Our Government's too busy tripping over their own feet to try make any concerted effort to pull a nanny-state on us, and our internal security agencies are far too inept to enforce it.
John Howard.
If governmental ineptitude was a factor, I wouldn't have to leave the UK.... they only need to get it right once and we're ****ed.
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John Howard.
If governmental ineptitude was a factor, I wouldn't have to leave the UK.... they only need to get it right once and we're ****ed.
Meh, no real need to worry about ol' Johnny. He's been getting shot-down on practically every major issue in the spectrum lately, and [once again] just recently made an ass out of himself over a petrol/LPG issue. Prat? Yes. Danger to Australian freedom? Not really.
But other than that, you make a good point. Might I recommend New Zealand? Great this time of year.
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John Howard.
If governmental ineptitude was a factor, I wouldn't have to leave the UK.... they only need to get it right once and we're ****ed.
Meh, no real need to worry about ol' Johnny. He's been getting shot-down on practically every major issue in the spectrum lately, and [once again] just recently made an ass out of himself over a petrol/LPG issue. Prat? Yes. Danger to Australian freedom? Not really.
But other than that, you make a good point. Might I recommend New Zealand? Great this time of year.
Ah, I forgot about New Zealand. Silly me.
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Ah, I forgot about New Zealand. Silly me.
Everyone forgets about New Zealand and they like it that way. To quote Billy Connelly the name itself is a Maori translation of "Shhhh! Don't tell anyone"
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you gotta be kidding me? i'm the first one to do this?
[obligatory]
(http://www.dvdreview.com/assets/images/Judge_Dredd_1.JPG)
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/6303855474.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
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What about Ireland? They at least have the "independence" mindset.
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What about Ireland? They at least have the "independence" mindset.
Banned abortion.
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you serious? i didn't know ireland banned abortion... ****ing ghetto
wait till my fiancee finds out.. she's going to be pissed (her sister paige lives in ireland)
oh ireland is also a guilty-until-proven-innocent state - piage's husband Paul is in trouble with the law, has extreme restrictions on his computer use,etc because his brother used Paul's computer to download kiddie porn without Paul's knowledge - the cops fingered him and he lost his job, etc - they still forced him to go to therapy, etc despite having found out that it wasn't him, that it was his brother, and that he didn't know his brother did it
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at least have the "independence" mindset.
Is that a good thing? Why is everyone wanting to turn their house into an independent country called Lovely a good thing? Surely ideas which segregate people are bad. mmkay.
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you serious? i didn't know ireland banned abortion... ****ing ghetto
It's down to a predominantly Catholic population where the church holds significant sway when it comes to political popularity. AFAIK it's legal for cases of danger to the mothers' health (but very rare in that case anyways; the Irish medical licensing board still considers it malpractice and I'm not even sure if it ever occurs as it is only supported by a muddy legal precedent), and thousands of Irish women are forced to go to the UK for abortions (45,000, I think since 1987). For some reason it's also illegal in N.Ireland, I presume because of the Republics objection to it and the potential for NHS overload from women coming across the border for it.
Until 1995, there were restrictions on both the right to travel (for) and the right to receive information about abortions in Ireland; offhand I believe it was the EU (Maastricht treaty) that forced the 1995 change.
EDIT; AI on Ireland; http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/irl-summary-eng
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Ireland is sssoooo backward.........
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Ireland is sssoooo backward.........
it doesn't old a candle to the USA's bass****ingackwardness
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c) seem to require some form of tracking (i.e. to monitor 'gangs' or 'yobs' and restrict their movements)
That's what I mean. A police officer can pick up a yob/group of yobs and take them home or wherever... then what? Sit outside the door to make sure they don't go near a place again? This seems as effective as an ASBO.
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Less effective even. At least for all their stupidity ASBOs have penalties if they are broken. How could you possibly add penaties to this system without making it even more draconian than it already is.
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at least have the "independence" mindset.
Is that a good thing? Why is everyone wanting to turn their house into an independent country called Lovely a good thing? Surely ideas which segregate people are bad. mmkay.
It means they're self-sufficient. If they feel the government is not meeting their needs, or acting in a way it shouldn't, they stand up to it instead of quailing and looking the other way.
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One suggestion.
Coup d'etat.
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Strange... I've already been considering that.
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One suggestion.
Coup d'etat.
Been having thoughts of initiating one down here for a while. But alas, I don't know enough people with high-up military connections, so that plan's over before it even started.
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Australia has a military?
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Australia has a military?
Yes, although it's known as the Cane Toad Defence Force.
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Of all the English speaking countries, it's the best bet so far.
What about Australia? Our Government's too busy tripping over their own feet to try make any concerted effort to pull a nanny-state on us, and our internal security agencies are far too inept to enforce it.
don't forget various references to poultry! :p
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Australia has a military?
:p
The Aussies have a fairly strong military tradition actually, and historically they've had some of the best infantry on the planet. They need to update, though; their Leopard 1 tanks are getting kind of outdated by now...
They also have the only navy worthy of the name in that part of the world.
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Australia has a military?
:p
The Aussies have a fairly strong military tradition actually, and historically they've had some of the best infantry on the planet.
Have they boll***s............