Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Mobius on August 18, 2006, 06:52:14 pm
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I heard time ago(possibly two years),but just now I remember it,that this Magic:The Gathering card(I like it a lot,I have 2 of them in Italian of course)was producted until Hindu people protested.The production of this card ended and then restarted,I don't know why.
Using the name of Shiva for a monster was incredibly offensive in their opinion,but if you check that card better you see that in this case Shivan comes from Shiv,not Shiva.
It could be just a coincidence,but the production ended for many years.
In FreeSpace,Hindu names are used in pair to more evil ones(Tantalus,Lucifer)to identificate Shivan warships.Though many names used are refered to legendary demons,like Ravana,others,like Arjuna or Krishna,are refered to simple gods or divine warriors.It's more than offensive.
My question is this:what do you think that will happen if Hindu people try FreeSpace?There are consistent Hindu communities all around the world,even in civilizated countries.It is not to be excluded.
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"Lucifer" comes from Christianity, not Hinduism. It was Satan's name before he rebelled.
I doubt they'd make a big international scandal out of it at this point. The game's been "discontinued", at least officially. In fact, I doubt that no Hindu has played the game. I'm sure most realize that the names just sound really cool, and that's why FS uses them.
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eh, you have to be pretty thin skinned to be bothered by something like that. I was brought up as a Hindu (although I am basically an atheist) and I never cared. As mentioned earlier, these things make cool sounding names. :D
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You know, I think many Christians and Jews would be offended by a similar Judeo-Christian naming scheme, as was pointed out before. I think most though would just find it weird.
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It's quite possible that Hindu people complained. The Shivan wing names came from Hindu mythology in FS1 but were just Zodiac constellations in FS2.
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I can't imagine why. The Hindu names were far better than boring ol' Zodiac signs. Also, Arjuna and Krishna are more appropriate, considering FS1's explanation of the Shivans as part of the cosmic creation/preservation/destruction cycle.
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"Lucifer" comes from Christianity, not Hinduism. It was Satan's name before he rebelled.
I never said that:I said that evil names like Lucifer and Tantalus are ok for Cosmic Destroyers,but not "simple" god names,venerated by Hindu people(Shiva is the god of destruction,but remains a god and he/she is venerated for this reason).Did you like to see the "Destroy Jesus" directive on your HUD,if the game was made in India?Indians would say "Jesus is cool for a wing,it referes to the regeneration and the preservation of the soul".
I can't imagine why. The Hindu names were far better than boring ol' Zodiac signs. Also, Arjuna and Krishna are more appropriate, considering FS1's explanation of the Shivans as part of the cosmic creation/preservation/destruction cycle.
We see that Shivans are the cosmic preservers only watching FS1 cutscenes.What I see actually are destroyers of civilizations,cold blooded killers who don't make difference from a civilian transport and a cruiser.
Hindu names for fighter/bomber wings are better,I know,but they have been changed by V(hey,maybe some Hindu protested and imposed a change?!?)
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Did you like to see the "Destroy Jesus" directive on your HUD
Might get us some free publicity if we did have one :)
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Did you like to see the "Destroy Jesus" directive on your HUD
Might get us some free publicity if we did have one :)
It's easy for you to say this,but it's a serious matter.
Try to imagine the pope,ex panzer cardinal,at Piazza San Pietro,accusing FS or a HLP campaign designer?
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Did you like to see the "Destroy Jesus" directive on your HUD
Might get us some free publicity if we did have one :)
It's easy for you to say this,but it's a serious matter.
Try to imagine the pope,ex panzer cardinal,at Piazza San Pietro,accusing FS or a HLP campaign designer?
****, that would be ace.
I'm off to write 666: The Freespace 2 Campaign. anyone got a goat model?
(I think the motivation of the Shivans is sufficiently vague to be inoffensive to the majority of Hindus; especially given the final FS1 monologue, which places them in a very literal 'god' like state as preserving a sort of order and balance in the universe rather than being mindless xenophobes)
There are consistent Hindu communities all around the world,even in civilizated countries.It is not to be excluded.
That's more than a bit patronising, surely? I'd expect there to be Hindu members on this board, for one thing.
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Did you like to see the "Destroy Jesus" directive on your HUD
Might get us some free publicity if we did have one :)
It's easy for you to say this,but it's a serious matter.
Try to imagine the pope,ex panzer cardinal,at Piazza San Pietro,accusing FS or a HLP campaign designer?
****, that would be ace.
I'm off to write 666: The Freespace 2 Campaign. anyone got a goat model?
(I think the motivation of the Shivans is sufficiently vague to be inoffensive to the majority of Hindus; especially given the final FS1 monologue, which places them in a very literal 'god' like state as preserving a sort of order and balance in the universe rather than being mindless xenophobes)
There are consistent Hindu communities all around the world,even in civilizated countries.It is not to be excluded.
That's more than a bit patronising, surely? I'd expect there to be Hindu members on this board, for one thing.
Interesting....
If there are Hindus here,well why don't they post here. At least they don't post from India,considering the ClusterMap. I'll wait here.
I said,only watching FS1 cutscenes that "preservers" thing comes in mind. In every other situation,every other mission,every other cutscene,I see only annihilators.
I wouldn't like seeing my gods' names being used to designate Destroyers(Destroyers,not Preservers).
The FreeSpace series isn't famous like Magic: The Gathering.After seeing Shivan Dragon,Hindus responded with lawyers and won. It wasn't a coincidence(Shiv+an,not Shiva+n).If they did this way for a card and a coincidence,what would they do with entire names used repeteately and to designate EVIL warships?One thing is having Hindu names only for Shivan warships and wings,one thing is making them work with Lucifer,Tantalus etc(the most evil names in FS1).
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I wouldn't like seeing my gods' names being used to designate Destroyers(Destroyers,not Preservers).
But they are the Great Preservers, it's what the cutscenes say. Jesus wept!
Any Hindu who knows his religion would realise that the Shivans are actual representations of the god Shiva, who 'destroys' things so that new things might be created in their place. Understand that acts of destruction are not always reprehensible and immoral things, and stop being outraged on the behalf of other people in a manner which, quite frankly, smacks of imperialistic paternalism from the 19th century.
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Volition got lots of hate mail after FreeSpace 1 on the decision to name the Shivan fighter wings as they did. Thus the reason why they were using Zodiac signs for FreeSpace 2.
I thought it was silly but I don't let many things easily insult me or I'd be insulted all the time.
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It's not :V: that was a bunch of insenstive wankers, it was GTA Command for specifying that naming scheme. When in doubt blame good characterization. :p
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Volition got lots of hate mail after FreeSpace 1 on the decision to name the Shivan fighter wings as they did. Thus the reason why they were using Zodiac signs for FreeSpace 2.
I thought it was silly but I don't let many things easily insult me or I'd be insulted all the time.
I stand corrected.
How very, very rubbish.
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Volition got lots of hate mail after FreeSpace 1 on the decision to name the Shivan fighter wings as they did. Thus the reason why they were using Zodiac signs for FreeSpace 2.
I thought it was silly but I don't let many things easily insult me or I'd be insulted all the time.
Then something has happened with V....
I wouldn't like seeing my gods' names being used to designate Destroyers(Destroyers,not Preservers).
But they are the Great Preservers, it's what the cutscenes say. Jesus wept!
Any Hindu who knows his religion would realise that the Shivans are actual representations of the god Shiva, who 'destroys' things so that new things might be created in their place. Understand that acts of destruction are not always reprehensible and immoral things, and stop being outraged on the behalf of other people in a manner which, quite frankly, smacks of imperialistic paternalism from the 19th century.
When I fight the Shivans I think,even if FS is a game,"God they're going to kill thousands of civilians!!!" and I terminate their bombers with Tempests. :lol:
They're the Preservers,ok,but also the Destroyers.You are confusing what the Shivan name suggests.
It's the third time I'm posting it.Shivan names are Hindu+evil.Asuras,Iblis,Ravana were all demons in Hindu legends,and the only Hindu names in FS2 if I remember well(and that's okay).
Something has really changed when V started making FS2...
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It's quite possible that Hindu people complained. The Shivan wing names came from Hindu mythology in FS1 but were just Zodiac constellations in FS2.
That was one of my biggest disappointments with FS2. As silly as it sounds, the lack of the Hindu/Judeo-Christian wing names really took a lot of the atmosphere out of it for me.
Also, weren't there screenshots on the back of the box that had the old naming conventions depicted along with NTF wings designated as "Corsair" and such, or am I just making things up?
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Also, weren't there screenshots on the back of the box that had the old naming conventions depicted along with NTF wings designated as "Corsair" and such, or am I just making things up?
I know they're used to designate pirate crafts and nothing more.
The designers of the main campaign have changed many things during the development of the game(the Thebes was a destroyer,the Yakiba a cruiser,the Monitor an AWACS,the Nebiros a cruiser?!?ecc ecc),and these things came out with voice acting.
They prefered to use Zodiac names.
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The shivans "preserve" by stopping powerful civilizations from destroying weak ones.
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The shivans "preserve" by stopping powerful civilizations from destroying weak ones.
But only when a population is reduced by 98% that "Preserver" thing comes in mind.
They're the bad guys in FreeSpace,bad guys.A thing Hindus shouldn't like.
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Don't really know if they would mind that much, after all (if i remember correctly, too lazy to check) in Hinduism the world is a cycle of destruction and recreation and Shiva is the one that destroys the world.
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Lucifer is just an old Roman name for Venus (the Morning Star) co-opted in Inferno and Paradise Lost to be a trendy, poetic name for Satan (which just means 'adversary' or something, quite boring). Since Lucy is an invincible deathship with mighty beam cannons, tagging it the 'light bearer' is fairly appropriate.
GTA Command is nuts, though. How would real pilots feel if the briefing called their targets 'oilfield Satan' and 'armoured section Kill Your Wife'?
Shiva constantly destroys so new things can be created: the role isn't seen as malignant. It's pretty much what the Shivans do too.
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What about the GTDn Gabriel... I hope no christians get to many mods...
On the other hand, the gabriel is terran, so it's probably OK...
And how come the shivan ships all have scary names? I mean come on, the Thanatos, that's death, so what is command thinking about morale here?
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Wasn't Thanatos a GW-era ship? In which case, I'd expect it to be 'named' by GTA rather than by the Vasudans (who'd have a Vasudan name for it). In any case, surely the God of Death can also bring it.....
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What about the GTDn Gabriel... I hope no christians get to many mods...
I'm Christian, and I have no problem with it.
The dreadnaught's actual class name is the "Archangel", Gabriel is the first name that generally comes to mind though. Heck, I named an Archangel the "Gabriel" before I knew anyone else was doing the same. :D
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But.. it's an engine of destruction...
meh, i was j/k anyway.
The Thanatos was a rakshasa in FS2
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Gabriel is an Archangel....
Gabriel
GTDn Archangel
Sounds good.
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Wait as a Christian I'm confused....
Should I be :no: because our religion is being trivialized...
or
Should I be :yes: cause we are kicking evil heathen Shivan arses?
I want to fire the Jaweh(SP?) Beam Cannon of Doom(TM) against the Shivan HomeWorld!
*Note this post is pure sarcasim (take it seriously at your own risk!) :p
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What'd the Dn mean anyway? Oh.... dreadnaught... coooolll :P
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You ever seen the GTDn Archangel? Out of all Strattcomm's models that is my favorite! Its entire front end is a massive blue beam cannon... that can destroy a Sathanas in a single shot! ;7
Plus, its antifighter capabilities are through the roof. I've seen more than a half-dozen AAA beams target a single fighter.... and it still had plenty left to shoot other fighters with.
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Sounds kind of overbalanced to me :nervous:
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It sounds it, but it really isn't. Its armor isn't the greatest, despite its antifighter capabilities it seems to lose health quickly... or maybe that was just the Vindhyacal-class superbombers attacking it. :doubt:
Also, the main gun takes forever to recharge. I don't know if it has any other anti-capship weapons... I suspect it does, but none so powerful.
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even in civilizated countries.[b/]
Wht do u mean!? That indians are not civilized?
I guess that it was worse than named a ship with a god name!
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Hunger... need food..
When you said "Indians" this time, for a moment, Native Americans flashed in my head.
No offense to our Native brothers as even since the day the first conquistador landed I believed them to be a civilized people with a rich and diverse culture that were horribly treated all these centuries by the white and Hispaninc explorers...
However, can you really see yourself docking with a freighter called, "Two Dogs f-ing?"
(or even giving the order with a straight face? Think about it.)
(runs)...
I'm going to look for food now. :lol:
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While we're on the subject of Shivans, weren't the strange cultists from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom called Shivans as well?
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even in civilizated countries.[b/]
Wht do u mean!? That indians are not civilized?
I guess that it was worse than named a ship with a god name!
OTHER countries.I have a lot of respect for them(in fact I've created this thread...)
While we're on the subject of Shivans, weren't the strange cultists from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom called Shivans as well?
Really?That's strange...
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While we're on the subject of Shivans, weren't the strange cultists from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom called Shivans as well?
Nope. They were the last reminants of the Thugee. Worshippers of Kali.
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Hehe My friends have a todler niece named Kali... (Kill her now I say! Last thing we need is another Damien!) :P
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I think names should reflect the undividual ships character, not the class.
The Belisarius should have been called the NTCv Lemming for example.........
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I think names should reflect the undividual ships character, not the class.
The Belisarius should have been called the NTCv Lemming for example.........
Belisarius was a Roman general,killed because of some politic reasons....
His death has opened the Empire to Barbarian attacks...a nice name for a corvette with a stubborn CO.
Then the Danton,the Camisard,the Jacquerie...those are names for rebel ships! :lol:
(in fact they were built by rebels I think)
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Then the Colly being stubborn and stupid resulting in its downfall should be called the Patton, (rememerb all the stress it put itself under) :rolleyes:
[not an argument initiative i assure everyone]
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No, the repulse should be the GTD lemming.
"Even If I take my crew to hell with you, this monstrosity will be destroyed!"
*Walks towards big beam cannons..* "Shiny"
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The Repulse inflicted 15 damage to the Colossus,a serious matter...sometimes I had the Repulse collide with the Colossus and pass through it! :lol:
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Makes me Roffle everytime i remember hearing "clear decks 8 hundred through 12 hundred"
They must have some bloody fast lifts / evacuation procedures...........
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Makes me Roffle everytime i remember hearing "clear decks 8 hundred through 12 hundred"
They must have some bloody fast lifts / evacuation procedures...........
Of course!Every ship should have lifts and every ship should be prepared to massive crew evacuations(expecially the Colossus).
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Yeah but 4 hundred decks in about 20 seconds , Thats amazing............ ;7
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Did you like to see the "Destroy Jesus" directive on your HUD
Might get us some free publicity if we did have one :)
I'm waiting for Axem to do something like that in his next crazy campaign.........
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Did you like to see the "Destroy Jesus" directive on your HUD
Might get us some free publicity if we did have one :)
I'm waiting for Axem to do something like that in his next crazy campaign.........
You're crazy!
Yeah but 4 hundred decks in about 20 seconds , Thats amazing............ ;7
We don't know if the evacuation procedure finishe dbefore the Repulse went down...
When I had it passing immune,more than 20 secs passed before it rammed the Colossus(don't collide ramming,cool)
Even captureing an Installation 20 secs after the marines have entered it it strange.