Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Snail on August 20, 2006, 04:21:17 pm
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After reviewing many user models, I see that they follow the inferior design of FreeSpace 2-type style. I personally think FreeSpace 2 had substandard models compared to FreeSpace 1.
Take the Shivans for example. FS1 Shivans looked mean, evil and intimidating. The more calculated look of the FS1 Shivan-style made me really feel immersed in the whole terror of the Shivans thing. They were more metallic and far more intimidating.
Although some of the Shivan ships that were turning into FS2 style, such as the SD Demon, still looked cool. The Demon looked as hard as rock although it had spikes and stuff. The Nephilim was also a really cool style of making alien ships. It was strange and alien. It was really big, and that made them intimidating. It had loads of gun and missile banks, and defensive turrets. The Seraphim was even bigger and had even more firepower. But I was disapointed when I saw the Taurvi. It wasn't scary, it wasn't big, hell it wasn't even powerful... at all. The Nahema was fast, but it only carried Cyclops bombs. Although the Nahema and Taurvi are cool (the dots on the Taurvi move when you turn on advanced effects), they were NOTHING compared to the 'wowness' of the Seraphim and Nephilim.
The Artemis, Boanerges, Bakha and Sekhmet lost their defensive turrets! FS2 bombers took on the 'fast bombers are better' rather than the 'uber heavy' approach. Although I can appreciate this approach, I would have liked my defensive turrets back. I enjoyed the feel of having a massive bomber under my control rather than 'just a fighter with warheads strapped to it'. I didn't like this as I more enjoyed having something big because it made FS1 have more mission variations, whereas FS2 had simply fighters that were slower with bombs on them.
The Moloch was also stupid. It looked cool, yes, and it had lots of turrets, yes, but it was weak. Very weak. Both the Sobek and the Deimos could pulverize it while only being hurt to around 25-50% AT THE WORST. The Moloch on the front page had an LRed but it got downgraded to a SRed. Why? The Moloch is weak, and it has a flat wall for the fighterbay, but it nonetheless can fit a few fighters in there.
Now for the Ravana. The Ravana looks cool, but what's up with the fighterbay? It's a plain wall! How the hell is a fighter going to come out of a plain wall? And how the hell is a fighter supposed to fit in that little compartment? Does it get transferred part by part through those stupid tubes? All FS2 fighterbays were just a plain, stupid, flat wall. The FS1 ships had tunnels and compartments. This is why I like the GVI Cairo. The concept art of the Ravana shows it with a really cool fighterbay that isn't just a plain wall. The Ravana would be an excellent design if it kept to the concept art.
Now the Sathanas. The Sathanas, although cool, is not Shivan-ish. It looks like somekind of bug. I don't think it is Shivan. The Hades, Hecate and Hatsheptsut also get this stupidness. They have a plain wall for their fighterbays rather than tunnels, like the FS1 versions. Also, I have noticed that some capital ships, mainly the Colossus, have an off-center rotation point. It makes them hard to place and made it annoying to move. I hope new models have centers that are well, in the center. The FS2 Demo with only 2 missions and several multi ones had bombers with turrets. The Nahema is a good example of this. On the back spikes, it has two turrets armed with Shivan Light Lasers. This shows that in the earlier stages of FS2, bombers had turrets. I wish they had not gotten rid of them.
So, I propose that all new models that are made should follow more FS1-ish guidelines rather than the FS2 ones.
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MY EYES MY EYES! Paragraphs are your friends!
But yeah I kinda agree. Shivans-as-bugs is a dumb idea. But, I assure you, there is nothing so scary as seeing a Sathanas come straight at you out of a nebula. If you don't believe me, play Derelict about four missions in.
You know the techroom actually mentions the Moloch's weakness? I think the reason they did this was to give a "superior technology for once on the Terran's side" sort of feel to the early missions. If you don't like it just replace the "S" with an "L" in the ships table.
I like the Hades, Hecate, and especially the Hatshepsut. The Hatshepsut has to be my favorite Vasudan ship of all time! But you're right there sould be some better fighterbays out there.
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Next time please break up the sentence into paragraphs. It's really hard to read that way.
I think it's all really just a matter of opinion, there are things i liked about Freespace 1 vs 2, for sure, and things about 2 that i wish were in 1, like beams for example.
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So basically make ships with real fighterbays, make large bombers, and "bulk up" Shivan ships.
Real fighterbays in FS2 ships are being taken care of with the Media VPs, the Hecate has a large and roomy fighterbay, as does the Moloch (which did have a fighterbay cut in, but it was crappy), and the Ravana also is going to have a cool looking fighterbay. My own ships with fighterbays always have nice fighterbay interiors. :)
FS1 large bombers vs FS2 strike bombers was probably a design choice GTVA guys made when they figured out that you don't need large bombers to make a dent in cap ships. Shields can triple or quadruple the amount of damage needed to destroy them.
And then about the Shivans, I've always thought that the Shivans you see in FS1 aren't quite the same one in FS2. The Lucifer Fleet may have been a long range fleet, and with little hope of getting reinforcements, you need to make sure your ships survive. So they have heavier armor and are "bulked up". You encounter the Shivans in FS2 right on their doorstep, so they have tons of offensive ships. Defense might not be a requirement because for that 1 Taurvi you just killed, they have 500,000 others.
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What Axem said :yes:
Any word on the Ravana? Hasn't been updated since Galemp disappeared.
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Sorry, I typed that down on the Inferno boards at first, noticed it had absolutely nothing to do with inferno, pasted it to notepad, saved it, and then a few days later posted it here. And for some reason Notepad made the text have one line inbetween every three words or so, so I turned word wrap off, and pasted it here. It got rid of all my 'enter' things for some reason. :wtf:
Well, paragraphs are now in order.
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I think the Demon looks like a puppy.
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I think the Lucifer looks like a puppy. Especially the new INF SCP one. Those prongs are its ears, the two BFRed holders are its cute little paws and the big one is its cute little head.
And how does the Demon look like a puppy?
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Viewed at the right angle, the Colossus definitely looks dog-like. Check the "showdown" pic in the screenshots area if you don't believe me.
I think the Lucifer looks like a puppy. Especially the new INF SCP one. Those prongs are its ears, the two BFRed holders are its cute little paws and the big one is its cute little head.
This is why I use Vasudan Admiral's HTL Lucifer at all times. Have to surgically remove the old Lucys from the tables sometimes, but I just can't stand those stupid "rotating dots" on its guns. :ick:
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That might break compatibility with ST:R when it comes out, but I don't know for sure.
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What Axem said :yes:
Sath looks exactly like a spider I found on my wall. Shivans look kinda like spiders.
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Giant null-g-wall-jumping glowing-red-eye spiders with exoskeletons like reinforced steel, and energy claws attached to their limbs... :shaking:
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I squashed a baby Shivan, I think. :shaking:
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The Artemis, Boanerges, Bakha and Sekhmet lost their defensive turrets! FS2 bombers took on the 'fast bombers are better' rather than the 'uber heavy' approach.
I felt that defensive turrets were just not effective enough to warrant the extra space they take up.
The Nahema, Bakha, and Sekhmet are probably the most effective bombers in the game not because they are weighed down with turrets and heavy armor, but because they have enough speed to reach their targets.
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I squashed a baby Shivan, I think. :shaking:
S'alright, I have a good 20 or 30 outside my office window.
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Although I do appreciate a good strike bomber for swarming to disable and disarm cap ships, I think that a nice big bulky bomber type ship with a couple of turrets in the right place still has a role to play.
*Thinks of replacing bombs with large turrets facing the front*
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The Artemis, Boanerges, Bakha and Sekhmet lost their defensive turrets! FS2 bombers took on the 'fast bombers are better' rather than the 'uber heavy' approach.
I felt that defensive turrets were just not effective enough to warrant the extra space they take up.
The Nahema, Bakha, and Sekhmet are probably the most effective bombers in the game not because they are weighed down with turrets and heavy armor, but because they have enough speed to reach their targets.
But you see, I'm looking for the feel of flying something huge. The point is that by making bombers faster, it took away the feeling that I was flying a bomber and not just a really slow attack fighter with a few bombs.
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Yeah I love flying bombers. My FAVORITE thing to do in freespace is kill dragons with an ursa armed with only bombs, no anti fighter missles.
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But you see, I'm looking for the feel of flying something huge. The point is that by making bombers faster, it took away the feeling that I was flying a bomber and not just a really slow attack fighter with a few bombs.
You've played Inferno, don't you think those bombers have more the "traditional" bomber feel? Especially the Jotun.... although I more felt like I was flying a rocket-boosted brick when in that thing. :p
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Given enough power, a brick can fly. Always remember that. :p
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Given enough power, a brick can fly. Always remember that. :p
Just look at the Herc Mk1.
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Inferno had good bombers, but the Danaus' afterburn boost was tiny, but I'm still all for slow and big.
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Given enough power, a brick can fly. Always remember that. :p
Did that quote come from the last Babylon 5 movie?
"It doesn't have to be aerodynamic to be fast. In space it could be a brick with an engine and be fast!"
To be honest, I never used the FS2 bombers, I stuck with the FS1 Medusa.
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The Argo and Hippocrates look like plumbing accessories, And the sobek reminds me of a secks toy. :nervous:
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What is up with everyone making cocks out of FreeSpace ships? Just another reason to like FS1.
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And the orion being 2K long aint Phallic then ? ;7 :lol:
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You have a square penis? With a spiky front?
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Did that quote come from the last Babylon 5 movie?
"It doesn't have to be aerodynamic to be fast. In space it could be a brick with an engine and be fast!"
To be honest, I never used the FS2 bombers, I stuck with the FS1 Medusa.
Actually, the closest resemblence it bears to anything I know of was a description of the F-4 Phantom II.
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You've obviously never seen a CF-100.
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I don't recall seeing one... I'll look it up anyways. I took a better look at FS1 and 2 bombers and my oppinion is that in the first war the GTVA needed much heavier bombers to combat the superior Shivan ships and armor in a time where the GTVA didn't have the big guns to deal with the Shivans. However in FS2, now that they use beam cannons, the bomber has somewhat lost its value and smaller more maneuverable bombers have gained greater favor. That speed would be vital in order to get in and out before getting vaped by beams and such.
Well thats all I have to say.
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You have a square penis? With a spiky front?
All my life :nervous:
*runs to doctor*
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You have a square penis? With a spiky front?
All my life :nervous:
*runs to doctor*
And at 2km long he'll see you "coming" a mile off, ;7
EDIT: Or should that be 2km off?? :lol:
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Yes and if you apply enough pressure, the orion will release 8 squadrons of swimmers.
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*greatly disturbed* >_>
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Didn't mean to say swimmers, but 8 squadrons of fighters. But there's a reason to releasing so many fighters.
It's to destroy the hairy thong wearing shivan threat. Truly fs2 shivans are different than those found in fs1.
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5222/shivansud5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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You know, I wasn't really disturbed...until now.
:eek2: :wtf:
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Lol, go check out page 18 of the 3.6.8screenshots thread on general freespace.
The thong isn't so great, but the hair effect is awesome, especially around the thong :D
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Christ @ this :lol: