Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Hoda on September 05, 2006, 10:36:34 am
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USE THIS FS2.EXE ! (toms build)
http://www.freespacezone.com/files/toms.exe
DISCLAIMER: NOT SUPPORTED OR ENDORSED BY ANYONE EXCEPT TOM! THE SCP TEAM RECOMMENDS 3.6.9 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/board,97.0.html)
PXO Server IP CONFIG
66.25.7.198
12000
PXO REGISTRATION (Use this same Username and PW in your FS2 multiplayer config option screen)
http://freespaceserver.cjb.net/fs2netd/main.php?area=register
After registering and setting up your PXO in fs2 you should be able to list games on the games-warden site.
Please do not edit my post, its for people who want to simply play the game.
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instrusctions ??
Does this save pilot stats???? :drevil:
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Theres a few missions that will save stats to the new PXO at games-warden linked to somewhere.
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Is there some connection betwen Game Warden and games-warden? :nervous:
...and, it's not very elaborate to say "some of the missions save the stats to somewhere". :rolleyes:
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USE THIS FS2.EXE ! (toms build)
http://www.freespacezone.com/files/toms.exe
Why in the name of Satan's hairy ballsack are you telling people they need Tom's Build when 3.6.9 RC 7 (or probably any recent build) will work perfectly well? :confused:
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it works, and its the only game ive played in 4 years, and it works
and it works too
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:wtf: :sigh: ::) :lol:
I believe Janos' siggy would be an appropriate answer to that.
lol wtf
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it works, and its the only game ive played in 4 years, and it works and it works too
As do modern SCP versions. I've spent many hours making sure that they work in multiplayer. And if there is something I've missed I'd rather be informed of it now while I can still get the fix in before 3.6.9 official is released.
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There you go, kara. :)
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Toms build is the MOST STABLE BUILD availble for multiplayer, and im sorry if you like your game crashing because of the stupid bugs in 3.6.9 every time you try to load the mission and still think your 3.6.9 **** is better, toms build almostnever crashes for me and when it does it usually because someone messaged me on aim, which can easly be fixed by turning aim off anyways. Now look, I relize you guys dont support toms build but you must relize that there are people who just want to play, they dont care about all the fancy do-dads fs2_open has to offer. It would be nice to have people online but you guys are preventing it by filtering out our posts and saying not to do what we have to say because thats not how you want it done. I mean damn dude 3.6.9 doesnt even want to connect to fs2net for me or any person ive talked to who tried to use it for multiplayer. Toms - it works every time.
Another thing, dont edit peoples posts like that goober, thats bs what you did.
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I think you are missing the point... If the 3.6.9 builds are not used for multiplayer then it will take a lot longer from the devs to find out why they wont function. Also toms build is afaik near identical to retail build with all bugs and stuff intact. In addition some of the coming mods/demo releases are designed - atleast partially - for the multiplayer gaming and they will not function at all with retail based builds, like toms.
And 3.6.9 builds and cvs stuff works just nicely in multi... i have played with those.
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1) If there is a bug in 3.6.9 then tell us about it. Otherwise shut the hell up because we are not going to keep having this conversation. 3.6.9 test builds have been vigorously tested for months to help make sure that it's good for 3.6.9 final. To my knowledge, it has only 1 remaining problem and that's with subobject animations. There have been no other bugs reported which haven't been fixed and these builds have been under constant testing by the big mods for their multiplayer use.
2) Tom's build has numerous rather severe bugs in it. Some of those are actually retail bugs, others are FS2NetD and networking bugs which we have fixed in FSO. It has been seriously considered to actually block Tom's builds out of FS2NetD just to help prevent problems with the server (since those builds cause higher server CPU and bandwidth usage than FSO builds). And I already have code to help do that, but it's never been put in use because I don't necessarily think that it's a good idea to block like that.
3) No one, and I mean no one, supports Tom's build except for him and the people that use it. It is not endoresed or supported by GW or SCP. In a perfect world, it wouldn't even exist. That it continues to even work with FS2NetD is simply because I let it.
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:rolleyes: Is it too much to ask for, I just wanna multi-pilot with the ability to save kills *sob* :(
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Toms build is the MOST STABLE BUILD availble for multiplayer, and im sorry if you like your game crashing because of the stupid bugs in 3.6.9 every time you try to load the mission and still think your 3.6.9 **** is better
Bollocks is it.
The Beyond the Red Line team have spent the last two months playtesting missions on 3.6.9. I can't recall a single occassion where the mission has crashed. The only thing I've ever seen is someone get dropped a couple of times on mission XFER (and that's something that would happen under Tom's Build too no doubt).
It's this sort of attitude that seriously pisses me off. I've spent months coding and playtesting in order to stabilise multiplayer, Taylor and Goober have commited large amounts of code which stabilise the game over all and people are still acting as if it's unstable without even trying the ****ing build!
If there is a problem with multiplayer on SCP report it on mantis or shut the **** up about there being bugs. Cause I've been playtesting deliberately to find bugs and I'm not finding them.
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Don't be angry ppl! For example, I do respect the work you put into SCP very much, and imo, there are alot more like me than like ppl who just ***** about something they don't even know! Better just ignore them, try that :P What I WOULD like to see tho, is the main site updated sometimes to help me get the most recent updates without going through the forums to hunt down the latest thingys :)
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Don't be angry ppl! For example, I do respect the work you put into SCP very much, and imo, there are alot more like me than like ppl who just ***** about something they don't even know! Better just ignore them, try that :P
Thing is that this isn't the first time I've had this conversation with DW-Hunter and it's really starting to piss me off. Especially given that the SCP team go out of our way to make sure that we don't cause problems for people using Tom's Build. I'm certain that it would make Taylor and MatthewPapa's life a lot easier if we simply dropped Tom's Build support completely.
What I WOULD like to see tho, is the main site updated sometimes to help me get the most recent updates without going through the forums to hunt down the latest thingys :)
We're in the middle of a transition at the moment. 3.6.9 will bring a whole new way of doing things with it.
Hopefully there will no longer be the need to keep downloading recent builds in order to fix problems caused by new features. In other words you'll download 3.6.9 and baring any major bugs you won't need to download anything until 3.6.10 or 3.7 (Whichever one comes next).
Only campaign developers and early adoptors will ever need to get CVS builds etc so everything can be neatly contained on the single 3.6.9 release thread.
It's the fact that we have to keep upgrading in order to keep up with the code that results in everything being all over the place.
To my knowledge, it has only 1 remaining problem and that's with subobject animations. There have been no other bugs reported which haven't been fixed and these builds have been under constant testing by the big mods for their multiplayer use.
There are currently 3 multiplayer bugs in Mantis.
1) The subobject animations bug. This one is in FS2 retail and Tom's build.
2) The respawn menu bug. Unless you're playing on a debug build, big deal. You press respawn again and the menu goes away. This only causes a serious problem on debug builds (where it asserts). Seeing as you shouldn't be playing multiplayer with a debug build unless you're actually trying to find bugs it's not really much of a problem.
3) The new SEXPs bug. Most new sexps won't work in multiplayer since until I started working on BtRL no one seemed to care much or understand how to make them work. Given that this only affects missions written for FSO though it's not much of a reason to prefer Tom's build. You couldn't play those missions there either.
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1st part: Just ignore him, whatever.
2nd part: Yup, I know, that's why I'm not botching about it everywhere :)
3rd part: Well, tsk tsk, fix them! :D
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*takes cover behind sandbags*
TAKE COVER PEOPLE, !!
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Moved to the SCP forum so kara and taylor can moderate if necessary.
I edited Hoda's post (only to add a disclaimer, I didn't remove anything Hoda said; and I reserve the right to edit it again) because Tom's build is almost completely unsupported, is extremely buggy, is far less compatible than either retail or FSO, is taking troubleshooting effort away from 3.6.9, and is hindering adoption of 3.6.9. Hoda's post has the potential to mislead people into choosing Tom's build as their primary multiplayer build, and the SCP has a strong interest in preventing that.
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I'm certain that it would make Taylor and MatthewPapa's life a lot easier if we simply dropped Tom's Build support completely.
LOL and lose more then 3/4ths of the current multi community? A lot of help that will do......... If you want people to play your ****ing build then convince them its worth playing. I have not once seen you ask someone if they are having problems with it, only your own bug testing, which is a problem because your computer differs with others. I have tried your damn builds, and told you the damn problems kara, and they just dont get fixed... so why should I continue to use this ****y build if it doesnt work?
And if your wondering why i just so happend to pop up, this hoda guy poped into my teamspeak yesterday and we had a discussion about getting his build to work. It didnt want to work, period. So i gave him toms build, which ****ing works every ****ing time.
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Hunter, firstly, you should respect the totally free work some others put into a game which you don't really seem to contribute a ****y tiny part of. Imo, you aren't in the position to talk like that to an SCP dev. Also, I think everyone's free to try CVS builds, locate bugs, and report and describe the bugs exactly, with proper coverage on every part of the system. That makes debuging possible.
Also, *****ing about the game might as well be a foolish thing on your side, as I really think that it is the computer, windows or drivers that cannot run the SCP edition, not something else.
Also, as you might have read, then tom's build causes the servers more net usage, so if you look beyond your bloody selfishness, you may see that it's very, very bad for all of FreeSpace. And I'm pretty sure that if Tom's build was blocked, most of the real FreeSpace fans would go over to the newest final SCP build, and only a few blockheads like you would leave playing FreeSpace.
I'll say this as a general thing on the net. When you're using free services, then you NEVER say ONE bad thing to anyone who's contributed more to it than you, othervise you'll be hated by all. On the other hand, with enough respect and acting like an adult, you may get help from ppl who actually know what's going on and maybe can fix the problem.
About your current arguments:
"I have not once seen you ask someone if they are having problems with it" What the hell, now the developer's gonna ask every user to oh please be so kind as to tell their problems? Sure, devs will get you your evening tea as well, just call!
"only your own bug testing" That will make the community be convinced that it's better.
"which is a problem because your computer differs with others" Oh, reeeaaally, how suppriseing! Then bugtest yourself as well!
"and told you the damn problems kara" If you just drop a random line like: "My FS crashes." "****ing multiplayer crashes" "it freezes" "I don't like the pilots face sitting in the Hercules 1 model, when the red sun's shining at about 80° angle on the cockpit" Won't help a bloody thing! The devs need to reproduce the bugs to be able to correct them. For that, you must give a very detailed explanation.
If you continue arguing, think over what you wish to say, and calmly try to make your points, not like a bloody 12 year old, who was let out to play around the net for a little. Othervise you should probably just stay shut, cuz I don't think anyone wants to hear crap flowing from your mouth.
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Well now. Kara just told you exactly how many multi bugs are currently known. Three. Why, pray tell, given that links to the bug reporting system are all over the place, and that the test builds are all publically available to anyone, have you not reported any of those many bugs you claim to have found?
You say people have not been asked if they are having problems but, well, what do you think all those links to Mantis are for, what do you think all the release candidate builds with a big sticker saying "Test this and tell us if anything goes awry so we can fix it" are for, and what about the several threads where SCP members have begged for people to test multi and report the bugs so they could be fixed for 3.6.9?
You say people have not been asked, but if you truely believe that, you are blind. One of the stated goals of 3.6.9 is to have multi working flawlessly, and several SCP coders have spent many hours towards that end. But it will. not. happen. if the people playing multi refuse to actually test the builds that are provided for that express purpose. So as far as I'm concerned, you can stuff that attitude, because right now you're part of the problem. Try being part of the solution for a change, and the bugs you supposedly keep finding in 3.6.9 RCs can actually be fixed.
And if not, well then to be honest, if that attitude is representative of those 3/4th of the multi community, I can live with losing them.
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LOL and lose more then 3/4ths of the current multi community? A lot of help that will do......... If you want people to play your ****ing build then convince them its worth playing. I have not once seen you ask someone if they are having problems with it, only your own bug testing
Then you haven't been looking hard enough. I asked at Freespace.pl since they play on 3.6.7 and I wanted to make sure that 3.6.9 would work for them. I'd link you to the thread but it's down at the moment. Feel free to ask Qwer though. I've played lots of games with them and you can feel free to ask the 303 if I haven't asked them if sudden disappearance were due to crashes or if bugs were occuring for them (The only report I ever recieved was one about beams not working which isn't an issue in 3.6.9 anyway).
The fact is that it isn't my job to chase after the multi community and ask them if they are having problems. They know where the SCP team is. If there is a problem they can come and tell me what it is. But even though it isn't my job I did it anyway because I wanted to make sure the bugs were gone before the BtRL demo came out. Don't presume to tell me that I haven't asked the multiplayer community to report problems. I've done everything I possibly can to get them to report errors. If they choose not to how is that my fault?
which is a problem because your computer differs with others. I have tried your damn builds, and told you the damn problems kara, and they just dont get fixed... so why should I continue to use this ****y build if it doesnt work?
And I have repeatedly told you to enter bugs in Mantis. I've repeatedly explained why bug reports need to go into mantis rather than just on ICQ conversations. Have you even bothered to register? As far as I know multiplayer works perfectly on 3.6.9.
But I went through the logs of previous conversations and the only report I found was a bug report you were forwarding from someone else that was probably an FS2NetD issue.
And before you start it's not just me. I haven't had a single crash report from anyone in the BtRL team. I haven't had a single crash report from anyone in the Starfox team. Name a single multiplayer problem except for the ones above that hasn't fixed. Or name a single more generic problem that I haven't told you to report in mantis so that it could be fixed.
Admittedly I only ever test using the Beyond the Red Line data because that's what I'm working on. But I've not seen a crash in months (At least none that I haven't since hunted down and fixed or passed on to Taylor and Goober to fix). Feel free to ask the team how stable 3.6.9 is for them.
And if your wondering why i just so happend to pop up, this hoda guy poped into my teamspeak yesterday and we had a discussion about getting his build to work. It didnt want to work, period. So i gave him toms build, which ****ing works every ****ing time.
So?
Had he come to me I probably would have had him running 3.6.9 in minutes most likely. 10 - 1 says his problem was that he wasn't running OpenAL.
3rd part: Well, tsk tsk, fix them! :D
Believe me, I am.
Bugs 1 and 3 will be fixed post 3.6.9. I'm not certain how much time I'll have to do it but 3.7 will probably break compatability with older builds in order to have more efficient net code. The way I've been solving bugs (by adding new network packets for each one) is not sustainable. It will just slow the game down if we keep doing it. Time to rewrite the code if we can.
As for bug 2 I spent 20 minutes trying to recreate it with no luck. I've seen it in the release build once or twice but I've had no luck getting it to occur when I'm running it through the debugger and can actually figure out what caused it. I'll give it another try soon though.
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w/e im done with this thread, this is only causing a big arguement....... and people posting anything after this post, go ahead and post. But dont expect me to read it......
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Easy sollution to make, when someone can't reason himself outta his misery. That makes what you said just about simple childish *****ing...
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Great attitude Hunter :no:
I for one can say that newest test builds by karajorma have worked just fine in the last two months when we've been playtesting BtRL. I have no complaints and can only give praise to the people who keep on working with FS_Open on their free time. Keep up the good work!
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w/e im done with this thread, this is only causing a big arguement....... and people posting anything after this post, go ahead and post. But dont expect me to read it......
Fine but if you ever complain about FS2_Open multiplayer having bugs I'm pointing you right back here because you were offered the chance to help solve the problem and you didn't care to.
As I said on the last thread I'm fixing multiplayer problems that I care about for BSG and ones that appear in mantis. Nothing else matters to me.
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i vote for immediate monkeying of [DW]-Hunter. being an annoying arsehole shouldnt be tolerated...
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Tolerated, yes... Accepted, that's up to you. Monkeyed... well that's for the admins to decide. :nervous:
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Just being annoying should hardly be enough to qualify for that, imo. All of us will probably be annoying arseholes to someone at some point, and there's been no name-calling or deliberately offensive posts here, just temper and a measure of arrogance.
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w/e im done with this thread, this is only causing a big arguement....... and people posting anything after this post, go ahead and post. But dont expect me to read it......
Ok then, you're a childish asshat. Despite being proven wrong on almost every point you make, you resort to vulgarity. You are hinderring the 3.6.9 release, and making the multiplayer community look like a bunch of tards.
If I were MP or Taylor, I'd have dropped tom-build support ages ago.
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Got to agree here, if you have nothing constructive to add, then add nothing. The purpose of the SCP is to move everything into the next generation, Multiplay included, you can either hug your Tom's build to your chest and whine, or you can help us do that for the benefit of everyone. The choice is yours.
If you are going to come in here, pointlessly insult the work the coders do and wave the 'Multiplaying communities loyalty' under our nose like some kind of baseball bat, then you are not welcome.
Rant Over.
For those of you who ARE having problems getting the latest build to work, PLEASE report it and post details of the problems you are having. If the SCP team don't know it's broken, they can't fix it, so sitting and complaining that 'Multiplayer doesn't work' achieves nothing for you OR us.
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Also, I think everyone's free to try CVS builds, locate bugs, and report and describe the bugs exactly, with proper coverage on every part of the system. That makes debuging possible.
Got to agree here, if you have nothing constructive to add, then add nothing. The purpose of the SCP is to move everything into the next generation, Multiplay included
...Well said you guys! The fact that the developers of SCP continue so actively and aggresively improve upon the code of FS2, which was made 8 years ago is amazing. The best way to say thanks to a developer (well, besides money :nod:) is to help them make their work even better.
Now, we can download _open and complain about the problems that we have on build x on the forum, but it isn't going to do anyone (least us) any good. The easiest contribution you can make is to complain the right way ... give them as much info as possible in Mantis to help them recreate the problem... and fix it.
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Tom's Build is pretty sorry IMHO.
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w/e im done with this thread, this is only causing a big arguement....... and people posting anything after this post, go ahead and post. But dont expect me to read it......
Let me put this simply: you concede defeat then, yes? You concede you have no point and are talking out of your ass, yes?
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Okay, that's enough. We've won the argument; we don't need to rub it in. :)
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Besides he's not reading this. :lol:
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Hunter can use whatever build he likes. As far as I'm concerned, it's only a problem once it starts to impose on other people who are trying to improve FS2, and hinders those efforts.
How this will probably work is as follows...Hunter will continue using Tom's Build. Eventually, some new netcode will be added (ie to remove the shipclass and/or weaponclass limits). The central Fs2NetD server will be upgraded to support the netcode, and Tom's Build will stop working. At that point Hunter can either come back here and *****, start his own server or play IP-only games, give up Freespace multiplayer, or start using an up-to-date build.
Personally I like the last option the best, since it doesn't involve losing fans or maintaining the split community.
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Okay, that's enough. We've won the argument; we don't need to rub it in. :)
Ahh...
But this is HLP. We never let the dead horse rest without giving it one last good kick. :p
EDIT: And perhaps I'm becoming too cynical, but I can't help but think DW and the guy who started the thread are the same person. Considering the original guy never did show up to defend his point.
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Don't think so, but you may ask Hoda on IRC I guess... He's from the US, so try at such times :)
About removing limits from netcode... Personally I think that FS supports enough diversity as it is, so if I wanted to change the net-code I'd go for optimizing it perhaps, so it'd be lighter on servers and maybe we could have a more stabile PXO replacement. (At least it's not really working for me :->)
Btw, I've already gave the last kick imo, right after the I'm off from here post of his :)
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Well, removing the Ship limit IS going to happen for Multiplay at some point, it will allow such things as Inferno multiplay and a lot more flexibility for Modders who want to include Multiplay missions. When that happens, it will, almost without a doubt, break compatability with older builds, at the very least to a degree where the increased traffic caused by older builds would cease to be a small issue.
Oddly enough, one of the best things that could be done at the moment, purely for optimisation and reducing server load would be to remove support for Tom's build....
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What do you mean is going to happen? :p
Inferno builds already work in multiplayer. Just don't use the same pilot with an inferno and non-inferno build and you'll be fine. The code for that was added several months back.
The big change that will break things is actually the removal of the need for a seperate Inferno build. :D However I intend to take advantage of the fact that we're breaking compatability and change as much as I can while I don't have to worry about compatability :)
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Hehehe, shows how much Multiplay I do, mainly because I'm embarassingly poor at actually flying any FS2 ships :nervous:
One thing I'd love to do see is more 'play modes', though this is largely down to imaginative Fredding, I remember the discussion we had about 'Comm-node Football' a few years ago or 'Capture the Flag' games, where you had to learn a completely different style of playing the game ;)
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We aren't actually going to break compatibility though (there is no point, so I'm not going to allow it :)). The new netcode upgrades I'm working on (as part of the new PXO) will selectively break compatibility based on what features you need. So if you don't actually need to break limits for ships or weapons then it will still be retail compatible. If you do need to break limits then the code will automatically adapt to that and change it's level of compatibility to compensate. The packet code will also be separated into retail compatible, and FSO only sections, to make things easier to add to and work on later, without the worry over breaking retail compatibility.
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On reflection, that's probably the best idea at the very least for the foreseeable future, due to the fact that not everyone who plays FS2 knows about the SCP or can get it to work (though, reporting the bug does help alleviate that problem).
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Ok, back to the topic. I cannot connect to fs2net is it down? :(
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Ok, back to the topic. I cannot connect to fs2net is it down? :(
Yes, it's down. But it may be moving servers very soon to try and have a more reliable uptime.
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hey taylor... add the toms build blocking code. I'm sick of this toms build ****. It's a buggy arse archaic build with inferior support that is causing users not to report bugs to us so we can solve them. I wrote the fs2netd server software, so technically I get to say what executables get to connect and what ones don't.