Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: aldo_14 on September 07, 2006, 04:32:14 pm
-
Fancy that, eh?
Anyways, I decided - despite previously vowing never to do so again - reinstall HL2 and hence steam. Specifically, on my work laptop because it doesn't need the DVD in the drive.
So, I started about 8:00pm. Steam installs and begins 'updating'; seemingly without me having the option to stop and just unlock the game.
About 45 minutes or so later, Steam freezes at 87%. I am forced to restart.
10:10 or so; finally completes updating. I am forced to remember my account details. I have forgotten this, so ask to be emailed (twice) a reminder; as of 22:38 - over 25 mins later - no emails. I manage to remember my password (left simple for exactly this purpose), so about 22:20 or so, log in. I now have to wait for the game to unlock.
As of 22:30, it is at 40%; and appears to have frozen. Thats - I believe - excluding patching the game.
In any case, it has taken over 2 hours to install a ****ing game. A more ludicrous, insulting system I cannot imagine, except perhaps one authenticating the user via anal swabs. And why do I have to jump through these ridiculous hoops? Because Valve doesn't trust me and thinks I'm a criminal.
EDIT; Finally. Time; around 2 1/2 hours.
EDIT2; Tell a lie - it's at 95%, it just minimized the window for no apparent reason.
EDIT3; Sweet jesus on a rusty jetski, it has reached 100% and is now downloading updates... another 10 minute wait (it says) before I can play.
EDIT4; 22:47 - 'ready to play'. Almost 3 hours.
-
Well, it seems it's not called "Steam" for nothing... I can almost see it rising from your ears, nostrils and skin pores.
Personally, I prefer sauna or some nice chili for the effect, but whatever floats your boat... :lol:
-
Try it on dial-up, it will kill you. Just wait until all companys have their own Steam.
-
Try it on dial-up, it will kill you. Just wait until all companys have their own Steam.
You know what that kind of frustration gets you? The Army of the Revolution.
-
Viva la revolucione!
Actually, the only steam game I play now is the original HL and TFC. I played HL2 with a...ahem...non-steam method.
-
I dunno, Steam never has had any problems with me. I was aprehensive about installing it because of the horror stories, but there's nothing wrong with it at my end.
Maybe I'm lucky, but I seem to get the exact same deal with most games that people deem unstable or buggy. There must be something I'm constantly doing right.
-
I dunno, Steam never has had any problems with me. I was aprehensive about installing it because of the horror stories, but there's nothing wrong with it at my end.
Same here.
Works pretty much perfectly for me, and never gives me a lick of trouble. Honestly, whenever I want it to do something, it does it without too much hassle, and - while i'm not all that fond of having to connect to it just to play certain games - it's nice to have around sometimes.
Honestly, I don't know why people whine so much about it, it's just not all that bad.
-
I haven't had much problems with Steam and I certainly don't hate it. In fact I like it because then I don't need to keep physical medias with their "copy-protections" around, which I hate more than using Steam.
Anyways, yesterday I updated Steam and HL2 titles just because I hadn't done so in a long while. Steam had to update itself and that took a long time, maybe longest it has ever taken. Since this was an isolated case, I didn't think much of it as I assumed the servers were a bit overloaded at the time.
- You complain because you forgot your own account logins? :doubt: Get a grip.
- Does your Steam account have valid and up-to-date email address? If not, that's why you did not get any emails.
- You don't have to wait for game updates to finish to play your games.
The only matter worth complaining about are Steam freezing during updates, but I have a hunch you were impatient and did not wait nearly enough for the updates to progress. The rest though I find ridiculous. Especially when your alternatives such as safedisc, securom and starforce and of course, using physical media in your drive while playing cause much more problems in daily basis than Steam and similar distribution methods do.
Just to make an example, I bought DarkStar One some time ago. The game uses new TARGAS copy protection which has not been cracked yet. This copy protection is so good that it makes my DVD-drive sprodically disappear mid-game, then when the game tries to access the game DVD next time, it freezes. I have to reboot my computer to get the drive working again.
-
This copy protection is so good that it makes my DVD-drive sprodically disappear mid-game, then when the game tries to access the game DVD next time, it freezes. I have to reboot my computer to get the drive working again.
I believe that's referred to as a "bug", not "good copy protection".
-
I haven't had much problems with Steam and I certainly don't hate it. In fact I like it because then I don't need to keep physical medias with their "copy-protections" around, which I hate more than using Steam.
Consider this - you have less legal protection (at least under British law) with software versus software-on-a-disk; owning the latter means you have rights under the Sale of Goods Act, etc because of that physical copy (vesus simple contractual/license obligations for a purely digital downloaded copy), and thus means the consumer has more protections regarding things such as quality.
Anyways, yesterday I updated Steam and HL2 titles just because I hadn't done so in a long while. Steam had to update itself and that took a long time, maybe longest it has ever taken. Since this was an isolated case, I didn't think much of it as I assumed the servers were a bit overloaded at the time.
- You complain because you forgot your own account logins? :doubt: Get a grip.
No, I complain that I have to ****ing guess them because the reminder system has failed me abjectly. I thought that much was pretty. bloody. obvious. It's basic courtesy to provide a working reminder system when people are paying about £40 not for a game, but in effect for your password authentication system.
- Does your Steam account have valid and up-to-date email address? If not, that's why you did not get any emails.
Yes, it does (what, do you think I'm some kind of idiot here who doesn't know his own email address?). As of 08:30 the following day, no emails - and that includes sifting through my Bulk folder.
- You don't have to wait for game updates to finish to play your games.
Then you tell me why it refused to launch and grayed-out the launch button whilst displaying an 'updating' dialog, because I'd really like to know.
The only matter worth complaining about are Steam freezing during updates, but I have a hunch you were impatient and did not wait nearly enough for the updates to progress.
I think 20 minutes stuck at 87% is a rather good indicator of being frozen.
The rest though I find ridiculous. Especially when your alternatives such as safedisc, securom and starforce and of course, using physical media in your drive while playing cause much more problems in daily basis than Steam and similar distribution methods do.
How about implementing Steam in a non-half assed way? Stardock seem to manage to treat the customer like an adult and yet make money.
Just to make an example, I bought DarkStar One some time ago. The game uses new TARGAS copy protection which has not been cracked yet. This copy protection is so good that it makes my DVD-drive sprodically disappear mid-game, then when the game tries to access the game DVD next time, it freezes. I have to reboot my computer to get the drive working again.
What has that got to do with the shoddiness of steam? Are you saying we should just accept inherent mistrust? Presumably if any other software is ****, we can't criticise it because, ooh, there's something ****ter on the market. "I have adware" "Well, don't complain, because you could have worse adware!"
Oh, and I forgot to note; it seems that the Steam T&Cs allow Valve to cancel game unlockings at any time and for any reason with no obligation to refund you.
This is me omitting HL2s >10 minute loading screen following my almost-3-hour install, of course.
-
10 minute loading screen? It's almost like the days of the 128k spectrum! :D
-
10 minute loading screen? It's almost like the days of the 128k spectrum! :D
I'm willing to guess it was an errant bug or something...... albeit I really wish they'd put in proper loading bars, or something to indicate it's loading and not frozen up.
-
sounds about par for the course, aldo
hell, during loading, i drew and inked an entire comic! :p
-
Well, I tried again and it made it (to the menu) in a comparatively paltry 3 minutes.
-
Well, I tried again and it made it (to the menu) in a comparatively paltry 3 minutes.
wow, speedy.
-
3 minute loading screen? It's almost like the days of the 48k spectrum! :D
-
Especially when your alternatives such as safedisc, securom and starforce and of course, using physical media in your drive while playing cause much more problems in daily basis than Steam and similar distribution methods do.
Considering Safedisc and Securom are largely uninvasive, and check your disc only at loading time, I fail to see how a slow, unreliable and apparently bug-ridden (though I can only lay claim to the first two) memory-gobbling piece of junk is better. And what problems does the use of physical media in the drive cause? Unnecessary wear and tear on the drive motors? You might have a point with Starforce but the majority don't use it.
-
After Steam and Half Life 2, I refused to buy anything else from Valve, or from Steam. And I've held to that.
By the way, about the main menu thing? Why the hell does it take SEVEN ****ING MINUTES to load the MAIN ****ING MENU just so I can take ten seconds to click new game and have to wait TEN ****ING MINUTES to load THIRTY ****ING SECONDS OF GAMEPLAY?!?!
-
By the way, about the main menu thing? Why the hell does it take SEVEN ****ING MINUTES to load the MAIN ****ING MENU just so I can take ten seconds to click new game and have to wait TEN ****ING MINUTES to load THIRTY ****ING SECONDS OF GAMEPLAY?!?!
If you're talking about HL2.. there's a mod out for that. It's a static image so it takes far less time to load than an actual level would.
-
There is also a command line switch to turn it off.
-
And are most people going to look for either until it has happened to them at least once?
-
Actually, with that mod that makes it a static image, it still takes THREE to FOUR minutes to load - a STATIC IMAGE AND SOME TEXT? Why the hell does it take so long? If it's preloading game material, then why DOES THE GAME LOAD TAKE SO LONG?
-
It's contacting Valve to let them know that you're starting HL2.
Nota bene: I don't know if that's actually true or not.
-
While I don't much care for steam basically for all of the reasons already stated, I just make sure that if I want to play HL2 or if I format and have to reinstall it, I have an extra over-night (when I sleep) to let it do it's thing. The only thing it's got going for it is that you can open it up and it'll update completely without any required user interaction. I just fire it up, make sure it starts, go to bed, and pray to God it's done when I wake up. *crossed fingers smiley*
-
You know what? I've never had any problems with Steam. I've recently reinstalled Windows XP, and I haven't installed Steam yet, so I'm gonna do that right now and document the entire process, right here. Let's see what happens.
-
Starting the SteamInstall.exe now.
-
That's done, now I have the olive green Steam app updating itself. For the record, I'm on a 2.5mbit/150kbit ADSL.
-
Ok, Steam finished updating. About to run it from the Start menu.
EDIT: Scratch that, it just started itself. Now I input my account details.
Which I actually know. ;)
-
Ok, it's logged in, and automatically updating "steam platform files"...
-
Ok, all done. Now to tell it to install Half-Life 2 and Episode One, both of which I have bought legally through Steam. It says it'll take 1 hour, 52 minutes at 512kbit/s. We'll see how fast it downloads.
-
It's "Creating local game cache files" and "Preparing Half-Life 2 files for install." By the way, the reason I'm posting multiple times is to get the timestamps. :p
-
Ok, now it's giving me a message that reads:
Steam is now downloading Half-Life 2. You can track the progress of this download in the Steam 'My Games' list.
You can safely close and restart Steam, and the download will automatically resume.
-
Bummer... it's downloading pretty slowly (relatively) - around 60-80Kbyte/s.
-
Just hit 1%.
-
2%. Now downloading at an average of 100kbyte/s. My pipe's max is 312.
-
3%. Now I'm gonna stop updating every percentage point and go get some food.
-
The loading times posted are bizarre. I get from Steam -> HL2 level in 30 seconds to a minute. I certainly don't have the best machine in the world.
Have you heard of defragmentation, maybe?
Sandwich: It's a pretty big game you know, remember you can start playing it before it's finished downloading.
-
Sandwich: It's a pretty big game you know, remember you can start playing it before it's finished downloading.
:wtf:
-
26%. I'm going to bed, as it's nearly 4am here. So much for the live reporting on when it completes. When I wake up, I'll let you know what happens.
-
this is why i like having CD's, you can at least skip the download part.
-
I don't know if this is part of Steam, but whatever.
Apart from the long load times and general instability, my biggest complaint is with the patches, especially with the recent August patch. Thanks to that, some of my gun skins in CSS are broke. Just like another patch before... :mad: But if I don't patch, I can't play online... -_-||
And in compensation I get a new radar. Nice, but it's close to useless in custom maps, since most people don't bother to do the images for the top-down spectator view... (Bangwal)
Some of the patches just break things, despite them working perfectly fine before the patch.
Dang sound script problem which I haven't been able to fix even now... and asking for help usually leaves me (and other people with the same problem) nowhere... :(
-
FTR, I just woke up. HL2's at 100%.
-
FTR, I just woke up. HL2's at 100%.
Undeniable proof that Steam is the devil digitized!
-
Sandwich: It's a pretty big game you know, remember you can start playing it before it's finished downloading.
:wtf:
What? You can. At about 20% you can start playing it. Making the long download pretty much nothing.
Steam is ****ing awesome.
-
Hate it or love it, it seems... :blah:
-
What? You can. At about 20% you can start playing it. Making the long download pretty much nothing.
Steam is ****ing awesome.
Shame they don't actually tell you that. Cool though.
-
What? You can. At about 20% you can start playing it. Making the long download pretty much nothing.
Steam is ****ing awesome.
Shame they don't actually tell you that. Cool though.
Hmm I'm pretty sure they do make a big thing about being able to "stream" games. Although I think I did discover it by accident...
-
What? You can. At about 20% you can start playing it. Making the long download pretty much nothing.
Steam is ****ing awesome.
Shame they don't actually tell you that. Cool though.
Hmm I'm pretty sure they do make a big thing about being able to "stream" games. Although I think I did discover it by accident...
What happens when you pass the point from where they are streaming? As people seem to have passed HL2 in about 1 and a half hour?
-
What? You can. At about 20% you can start playing it. Making the long download pretty much nothing.
Steam is ****ing awesome.
Shame they don't actually tell you that. Cool though.
Indeed. Never ever knew that was possible.
-
I know I'm not the admin here, but when you said that you were gonna document what's happening, I thought you were gonna post it all in one big lump instead of multiple posts...
-
I know, I know, but I did it for the timestamps... I didn't want to keep on editing the same post, adding in new timestamps, etc.
-
What? You can. At about 20% you can start playing it. Making the long download pretty much nothing.
Steam is ****ing awesome.
Shame they don't actually tell you that. Cool though.
Hmm I'm pretty sure they do make a big thing about being able to "stream" games. Although I think I did discover it by accident...
What happens when you pass the point from where they are streaming? As people seem to have passed HL2 in about 1 and a half hour?
It requests material from Steam when Half-Life 2 needs it. For instance if it starts to load a level and then finds it doesn't have a certain model for a monster, it will request it from Steam, wait for it to download, then load it and carry on.
It's not ideal, but it's pretty much the only way.
-
Hang on... doesn't the game need to unlock itself after its been downloaded?
I have the DVD of HL2 and whenever I install it, it'll download and update Steam - then update HL2 (a really lengthy process) - then unlock the game files - and finally when it's done it'll show me the option to play it.
-
Hang on... doesn't the game need to unlock itself after its been downloaded?
I have the DVD of HL2 and whenever I install it, it'll download and update Steam - then update HL2 (a really lengthy process) - then unlock the game files - and finally when it's done it'll show me the option to play it.
You already answered your own question by stating that you install it from the DVD.
Come on, why would it need to unlock anything after you've already logged into Steam and started downloading? It knows you're fo' real as it were before you start downloading, but if you have the DVD it's not sure untill you tell it so, and it just happens to be after you've installed it.
-
Couldn't it unlock itself as I play it? I mean... there's no good reason (having installed from a DVD - which it should be able to check) that it couldn't check the content online as I load it up. There's no reason to unlock the entire damn thing just so I can load the main menu, if it can stream it from online then it should be able to unlock it from online as well.
As it is, I'm forced to wait because Steam doesn't trust me... treating the consumer like a criminal is not the way to their hearts.
-
No argument here - Stardock's system for GalCiv2 is far less annoying. But I've never had any actual problems with Steam that would generate a complaint from me. I buy a game, an episode, my computer's HDD crashes (totally unrelated :lol:), I reinstall Windows, reinstall Steam, and it has all the things I've purchased, right there, waiting to be downloaded and installed.
-
No argument here - Stardock's system for GalCiv2 is far less annoying.
I found Stardock's system to be more annoying in fact. I no longer remember what was it that was nagging me because I haven't used it in a long time. That goes with GalCiv2 too, after I played it a few days I grew bored of it and haven't played it since. One of the major boredom factors was that in campaign mode technologies you researched did not carry over to the next mission. I miss the days of MoO2. MoO3 was such a disappointment too. :sigh:
-
No argument here - Stardock's system for GalCiv2 is far less annoying.
I found Stardock's system to be more annoying in fact. I no longer remember what was it that was nagging me because I haven't used it in a long time.
How can it be annoying NOT to have a protection at all in this age of intrusive protections? :confused:
If you wish, each time you want to play GalCiv2 you may write a thread about it so that we can autorize you, would that make you feel better? :p
-
I really did not notice much difference to Steam as far as intrusiveness is concerned.
If you wish, each time you want to play GalCiv2 you may write a thread about it so that we can autorize you, would that make you feel better? :p
Even if I had to, that wouldn't be much of a problem because I stopped playing the game after a few days. :p
-
I buy a game, an episode, my computer's HDD crashes (totally unrelated :lol:), I reinstall Windows, reinstall Steam, and it has all the things I've purchased, right there, waiting to be downloaded and installed.
This pretty much one of the huge pluses for me, although I'm actually really good looking after CDs, I have a command and conquer curse and am always scared it will cross over to other games. With Steam I'm relatively safe.
Seriously, I've lost the original C&C NOD CD, I rebought that. Red Alert 1 case is shot to buggery. I lost Red Alert 2 completely and rebought that. Red Alert 2 Yuris Revenge just refuses to install from the CD.
I've always been fine with all other games, honestly. C&C is one of my favourite games too, it's not fair. :( I think if I bought the First Decade DVD it would just melt as soon as I touch it.
The only problem with the Steam thing is that Steam will not be around forever. I mean I still play games that are 15+ years old, they run okay thanks to emulation. Will there still be a Valve in the same period of time? Still be a Steam?
Then again... Do I think HL2 will be that much of a lasting title for me? Not really.
-
*coughs*
Uh.. apparently there's a Stream emulator out there. You run it... it goes nowhere near the internet... you can play any HL2 game you have. I imagine that means if you get them as torrents you can play for free, or if you buy them on Steam you can use the emulator to play them without the internet or something.
I've only tried to use it once though, when I didn't feel like starting Steam every time I wanted to play something from Valve. Couldn't get it working so I bit the bullet and went back to Steam.
-
*coughs*
Uh.. apparently there's a Stream emulator out there. You run it... it goes nowhere near the internet... you can play any HL2 game you have. I imagine that means if you get them as torrents you can play for free, or if you buy them on Steam you can use the emulator to play them without the internet or something.
I've only tried to use it once though, when I didn't feel like starting Steam every time I wanted to play something from Valve. Couldn't get it working so I bit the bullet and went back to Steam.
That would be known in the trade as an illegal crack. I never questioned the existance of those. I'm talking about being able to download the game from Steam when there is no Steam.
-
It is illegal but I tend to draw the line at whether I own the game already or not. I've no moral problem with cracking a game I already own so that I don't need the CD or whatever because I've already paid for the game... so nothing is being stolen.
If I did it with a game that I hadn't paid for? Well that would be software piracy of course.
As you say though... if you bought the game through Steam but couldn't download it because Steam no longer existed... well I don't know what to suggest. Is there anything in the Steam EULA that says they reserve the right to withdraw service of games at any time? They won't keep the servers going indefinitely so by logic someone somewhere is going to want to play the game they bought, but won't be able to on account of Steam being shut down.
-
Just on that thought, has anyone ever been convicted of a crime because they've used or created a game crack? I've only heard of groups being shut down that facilitate or provide the distribution of the original media.
-
Just on that thought, has anyone ever been convicted of a crime because they've used or created a game crack? I've only heard of groups being shut down that facilitate or provide the distribution of the original media.
Some of the "major" games cracks people package up a text file acknowledging themselves as well as saying that they do it only as a technical exercise and do not condone or encourage piracy of software.
You can of course choose to take those words as "crap".
But I suppose the sentiment could be there... to see if you actually can find a way around someone elses copy protection software. That sort of a challenge could be fun if you're that kind of person, and of course you'd want people to see that you could do it. Perhaps they really do believe they're only doing it as a technical exercise and that you shouldn't use it to illegaly play games you don't pay for.
That said I suppose the crack on its own is harmless. You can't play someone elses game with just the crack - you'd need the game files as well somehow. So if you publish the cracks on their own, are they really facilitating piracy at that level? Like bullets without a gun to fire them... they only serve their purpose if you get the full package.
-
Just on that thought, has anyone ever been convicted of a crime because they've used or created a game crack? I've only heard of groups being shut down that facilitate or provide the distribution of the original media.
Some of the "major" games cracks people package up a text file acknowledging themselves as well as saying that they do it only as a technical exercise and do not condone or encourage piracy of software.
You can of course choose to take those words as "crap".
Yeah they often tell people to buy the proper thing and not use the crack for anything other than say removing CD limitations.
Bollocks.
-
What happened to the golden age of gaming, Event the FS2 leagal mumbo jumbo says you can give your mates a copy, as long as you dont charge £$£$£.
Check it out if you doubt my supreme wiselyness :ick:
-
What happened to the golden age of gaming
died with shareware
-
I mean games that came in a massive box with about 2 manuals and a load of Canon stroy tyoe add-ons. Like Wing commander 3, Or Homeworld, The history of Kharak contributed to making me feel so :jaw: when it got burned........
-
I mean games that came in a massive box with about 2 manuals and a load of Canon stroy tyoe add-ons. Like Wing commander 3, Or Homeworld, The history of Kharak contributed to making me feel so when it got burned........
It's more important to make sure it looks pretty so people will buy it. Stuff 'em once they have it, it's all about the draw.
Welcome to the new age of gaming, my friend.
-
*Cradles a heap of pre 1997 game boxes weeping*
DAMN THEM ALL TO HEEELLLLLLLLLL! :mad:
-
I guess I'm the only one who wants to get rid of those oversized boxes and manuals which only waste precious space and collect dust. Digitizing FTW! :p
-
I like to have a sit down away from a TFT and read the manuals sometimes, Its nice to have something ot hold as well.... :P
-
I agree with CD. I pored over the Homeworld, Battlezone, and MechCommander manuals again and again, marking up points of interest, etc. *sigh*
-
Plus i want as much as i can get for my £££, i think Half-Life was the first game to dissapoint me Manual wise. :mad:
-
*Cradles a heap of pre 1997 game boxes weeping*
DAMN THEM ALL TO HEEELLLLLLLLLL! :mad:
Ditto.
DAMN THEM ALL TO HEEELLLLLLLLLL! :mad:
-
Totally with you Dekker.
Frontier: Elite 2 was a good example - You get a big ass-box, floppy with most of a Galaxy on it, an excellent manual and a story/'fluff' book :D
And all that for just under a tenner!
Now you pay £34.99 and get a ****ty card box (with metallic writing!!!1111one), a CD/DVD with about 6 hours of un-replayable gameplay, a 5-page manual that is mostly warnings about epilleptic fits and adverts, and if you're lucky a PDF of a real manual that is formatted in a Zen-like way to make it hard to read on even the largest monitor...
...
Jesus, I've turned into a moany old man!! Nooooooooo!
Now, I must admit I don't mind the DVD cases too much, because the space I have saved is real nice... and frankly with the complexity of most modern games you don't exactly NEED a manual (And since most 'modern' gamers probably can't read anyway, I can see why they'd not bother and just stick with Pictures...)