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Community Projects => The FreeSpace Wiki Project => Topic started by: TrashMan on September 10, 2006, 04:18:21 pm

Title: Fighter complements???
Post by: TrashMan on September 10, 2006, 04:18:21 pm
What are the fighter complements os some FS destroyers?

the Orion should have 120 fighters (10 squadrons), but some say it has less.

The Typhon and the Hatsheput are also unknown.

Given the opposite role of hte terran and vasudan destroyers (Hecate more similar to Typhon, Orion to Hatsephut9, I'd wager that their fightercapacity is similar.

So I'd estimate 144 for Typhon, 120 for Hatsephut
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Mars on September 10, 2006, 09:07:51 pm
I'm pretty sure the Orion and Typhon have their fighter compliments spelled out in the FS2 tech descriptions, and there is no info to say otherwise.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: BS403 on September 10, 2006, 09:38:15 pm
doesn't the typhon have 30 wings of fighters?
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Mars on September 10, 2006, 09:42:37 pm
30 X 12 = 360  that's half the compliment of the Colossus :eek2: so I don't know... then again, the Vasudans used Anubis fighters during the T-V War, so I guess they would need a lot... sounds high though... and is distinctly quasi-canon
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Shade on September 10, 2006, 09:47:17 pm
Do we actually know the size of squadrons in the FS universe in the first place? There's really no standard for it in the real world, it varies with country and aircraft type. Same thing goes for fighter wings, btw, that can be anything depending on who you ask - In Tie Fighter for example, I seem to recall a fighter wing being 60 fighters.

I'm fine with canon squadron numbers as they're stated in the techroom and command briefings, but unless clearly stated somewhere, speculation on actual fighter complement should be avoided except in the appropriate sections (such as veteran comments).
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Freespace Freak on September 10, 2006, 10:25:19 pm
FS2 tech descriptions say the Orion carries more than two dozen wings.  If we are to assume there are 4 fighters per wing then that makes 98, make that about 100 to satisfy the "over" part.  The Hecate is much more cavernous, housing more than 150.  The Typhon holds 30 wings, which gives it 120 fighters.  The Colossus houses 60 wings which makes 240 fighter or bombers, and there's nothing on the Hatshepsut, but it can be assumed that it would house somewhere around 120-150 fighters.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 10, 2006, 11:55:26 pm
Also, we know wing size is changeable; you can have as few as one or as many as six fighters in a wing, so even with a number of wings, we don't know how many each wing includes. It stands to reason that a heavy bomber unit might include fewer fightercraft per wing then a space superiority unit, or that other different unit types might have different wing sizes from those.

The Colossus CB ani gives four fightercraft per wing and three wings per squadron as a standard size, but I'm leery of accepting that. Operational realities would likely dictate differently.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Mars on September 11, 2006, 06:21:30 am
In the Colossus cutscene it breaks it down, four fighters per wing, three wings per squadron, watch it closely and you'll see what I'm talking about
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 11, 2006, 06:23:09 am
What are the fighter complements os some FS destroyers?



Everyone says the Perseus handles well in Fighter review monthly  :nervous:



Did the fighter compliment vary from ship to ship, IE would a command ship (Aquitaine) have more or less than a standard Destroyer?
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Mars on September 11, 2006, 06:26:02 am
Well we know that the Bastion has ten squadrons even though, when you do the math you end up with 8.5 squadrons, so maybe, or maybe we don't know. I would consider all extrapolations on the wing / squad numbers from the Collie cutscene to be quasi-canon, but still non-canon.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Mefustae on September 11, 2006, 06:28:41 am
In the Colossus cutscene it breaks it down, four fighters per wing, three wings per squadron, watch it closely and you'll see what I'm talking about
Mef shall illustrate upon this topic!

(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9420/capture67hc6.jpg)

Fear my illustration skills.


Edit: Anyone got a hi-res version so we can see what that text is next to the depiction of a wing size?
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 11, 2006, 06:30:21 am
One squad = 3 wings, Canon itself. Ok that is irrefutable .  :D
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Freespace Freak on September 11, 2006, 06:38:09 am
Edit: Anyone got a hi-res version so we can see what that text is next to the depiction of a wing size?

The only thing I can read from your pic is that the first line says "Math is cool."

Also, as far as bombers taking up more "space," we can assume, based on the Aquitaine flight deck, that the destroyers have individual docking bays for their small craft (fighters and bombers), so even though a Perseus is much smaller than an Ursa, they'd both use the same docking slip, so the fighter compliment is unchanged regardless of the type of craft housed.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 11, 2006, 06:40:52 am
I zoomed in to 6X in MS Paint to read the stats in the Colly pic. :)
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Freespace Freak on September 11, 2006, 06:43:08 am
I zoomed in to 6X in MS Paint to read the stats in the Colly pic. :)

So, what does it say?
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 11, 2006, 06:50:40 am
One squad = 3 wings, One wing = 4 ships. Total ships 240. In fact i can make that out from the above posting.
The paragraph appears to random babble..... :)
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Freespace Freak on September 11, 2006, 06:54:48 am
Oh, except for the beginning that says "Math is cool."  I thought the random babble is actually readable this time.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 11, 2006, 07:02:36 am
If anyone can squeeze a higher-resolution pic out of somewhere some of it might be legible  :nervous:

For now though we got some :v: figures on squads that verifies 12 fighters per squad, But is a Squad a squad"ron" ?
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Taristin on September 11, 2006, 11:08:06 am
Its gibberish. They knew that no one would be able to read it and filled it with nonsense. Its been done before, though exactly where I cannot recall.



Suffice to say, theres nothing that can be assertained from the small text. Except that math is cool.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Freespace Freak on September 11, 2006, 12:15:49 pm
But is a Squad a squad"ron" ?

Yes.  A squad is short for squadron, whether it is a squadron of capital ships, fighters or bombers, or combat ground troops.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Mars on September 11, 2006, 02:54:58 pm
No, in modern armies squad =/= squadron, at least I don't belive so, in Freespace however, it is the same.

Yeah, in the Meson bomb cabani, I swear (I mentioned this before) I can make out "A large ______ made specifically to destroy large antiques"
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: spartan_0214 on September 11, 2006, 03:41:46 pm
Here's how it goes:

Flight: One Flight = 4 fighters; Three Flights = 1 squadron; 3 squadrons = 1 wing

Ground: One Squad is typically a four-man team of commandos sent on suicide missions. The rest, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_unit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_unit)
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: TrashMan on September 11, 2006, 04:26:27 pm
FS2 tech descriptions say the Orion carries more than two dozen wings.  If we are to assume there are 4 fighters per wing then that makes 98, make that about 100 to satisfy the "over" part.  The Hecate is much more cavernous, housing more than 150.  The Typhon holds 30 wings, which gives it 120 fighters.  The Colossus houses 60 wings which makes 240 fighter or bombers, and there's nothing on the Hatshepsut, but it can be assumed that it would house somewhere around 120-150 fighters.

Vasudan wing also traven in packs of four, so it's safe to assume that's their number.

Another note, when it sez MORE than two dozen wing you don't really add 2 fighters but rather a full wing or a squad (2 fighters can't form a wing, they can be exrtas but really?).
Aditionally, the Galatea holds 10 squadrons (and it's nowhere mentioned that it's special in any way). That would make 120 fighters which is indeed more than two dozen.
And if you look a little closer, you would see that the Orion has just as much internal volume as the Hecate, if not more.
After all it's a big, long brick.
The Hecate won't house the fighters in it's thin neck or the "wings", and I doubt the engine sections either. Gven that the fighterbay entrance is at the very front, that leaves little chance for hte hangar to stretch trough the whole ship, but it's rather confined in the front part.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 12, 2006, 03:58:40 am
Here's how it goes:

Flight: One Flight = 4 fighters; Three Flights = 1 squadron; 3 squadrons = 1 wing

Ground: One Squad is typically a four-man team of commandos sent on suicide missions. The rest, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_unit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_unit)

IN FS2 terms i meant, In the UK we dont do "squads" we have Fire Teams, Two Fire teams make a section, 2>4 sections make a troop depending on the regiment you're attatched to.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Freespace Freak on September 12, 2006, 06:52:38 am
No, in modern armies squad =/= squadron, at least I don't belive so, in Freespace however, it is the same.

Yeah, in the Meson bomb cabani, I swear (I mentioned this before) I can make out "A large ______ made specifically to destroy large antiques"

According to dictionary.com, "squadron" just means "one squad."  The word squad itself comes from the word square..  So squadron mean "one square" (it's all french).  However a squad can vary.  In today's military, a squad is only applicable to the smallest grouping of troops, consisting of a squad leader (a sargent) a corporal, and about ten or so privates.  A squadron refers to a smallest grouping of non-human troops.  In the olden days, a squadron refered to a small calvary group that could ride together as a single unit.  Today it refers to mechanized units or tank squadrons, or air calvary.  In the air force or naval air forces, it is subordanite to a group and is composed of two or more "flights" or wings.  In the non-air navy, it refers to the smallest grouping of naval ships.  If you go to a Naval base, you'll see that ships will have written on them something like "USS _____ 3rd Fleet, DesRon One"  DesRon means Destroyer Squadron, and you'll see CruRon for Cruiser Squadron and things like that.

So...Even though there's a difference in the dictionary between "squadron" and "squad," they essentially mean the same except that squad refers to human troops while squadron refers to mechanized units.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 12, 2006, 06:59:18 am
Ugnn, Yankology... I wont argue, I have no appetite for USA terminology, But its more applicabe to FS2 than Imperial.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Freespace Freak on September 12, 2006, 07:36:46 am
Ugnn, Yankology... I wont argue, I have no appetite for USA terminology, But its more applicabe to FS2 than Imperial.

The people who made FS2 are 100% bonafide Yanks, and don't forget that!  :P  FS1 & 2 definately have a Yank feel to them as you never hear a single character have anything other that a 100% American accent. 

Just to clarify, in the US Military, you will hear people referring to a squadron as a "squad," but you will NEVER hear someone refer to a squad of troops as a "squadron."  How do I know this?  I AM in the US Military.  Granted, it's just the Coast Guard, but I was stationed on a Navy Base, and in boot camp, recruits were organized into companies that were divided into squadrons.  The entire boot camp was called the "regiment."
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 12, 2006, 07:39:04 am

The people who made FS2 are 100% bonafide Yanks, and don't forget that!  :P 



Gah, thats why i said it.......... ::)

PS=- I spent 6 years in the Royal Engineers myself  :P


Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Mongoose on September 12, 2006, 02:14:39 pm
FS1 & 2 definately have a Yank feel to them as you never hear a single character have anything other that a 100% American accent.
Um..."WELCOME to Epsilon Pegasi, pilot!" much? :p
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Freespace Freak on September 12, 2006, 02:27:36 pm
FS1 & 2 definately have a Yank feel to them as you never hear a single character have anything other that a 100% American accent.
Um..."WELCOME to Epsilon Pegasi, pilot!" much? :p

OK, maybe my memory is not what it used to be. You're talking about Lt. Commander Cordova?  In the mission, I certainly don't remember there being any Brit or commonwealth accents during the Cato mission.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Snail on September 12, 2006, 03:55:45 pm
What about the Vasudans, they don't have American accents... :nervous:
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Freespace Freak on September 12, 2006, 04:12:09 pm
What about the Vasudans, they don't have American accents... :nervous:

I think for the most part I think the "translator" is always in an American accent, but I think they tried to give Admiral Khafre a wannabe English accent, but that was thoroughly butchered.  Either that, or it's so distorted I can't make heads or tails with it.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Mongoose on September 12, 2006, 05:10:26 pm
What I meant by saying that is that Cordova himself has a distinctly non-American accent.  (Well, to my ears, at any rate. :p)
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Mars on September 12, 2006, 07:10:45 pm
Cordova was trying to sound like a brit and ended up sounding... weird.

In the SCP Derelict some of the Vasudan voice actors were Aussie or British, and you can tell.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: spartan_0214 on September 12, 2006, 08:34:08 pm
yea. . . like Mackey (tell me if I'm spelling it wrong)

"I've got a wad of duct-tape I'd like to shove up your arse"

or, my personal favorite:

(in reference to getting a medal)"I think I'll duct-tape it to my cockpit"(or something along those lines..)
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Taristin on September 13, 2006, 12:30:03 am
Is it an American accent, or an accentless english voice? There would be no localized accent present in any of the voices Ive heard in game. Ive been inclined to think that it is more or less how the "internationalized" accent would sound..... as Grug has argued with me on many occasions that most Aussies dont have that G'day shrimp on a bobby accent that Irwin had.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 13, 2006, 03:30:54 am
Shrimp on a bobby?  Most rozzers would bang you up in belmarsh if they heard you say that my sonny Jim.
Title: Re: Fighter complements???
Post by: Freespace Freak on September 13, 2006, 09:27:13 am
No, Cordova is definately not Brit, nor do I think he trying to sound like it.  He just sounds weird.  But I just realized that I think the voice actor for Cordova is the same for Admiral Khafre.