Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sarafan on September 16, 2006, 07:52:36 pm
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Blue_%28duo%29
Unlike most people in my country that hate the US for its mere existence, I never really cared about the its situation, if their army is recruiting people like these and criminals, if their politicians are approving more and more laws to end basic rights, if they're making absurd motives to go to war and whatever more that happens that I dont know, history taught me that it will fall just like Rome someday, but its when I see things like these that really turn my opinion and really make me wish that everything in that country simply burn, just that, burn and die in the most painful way possible.
The thing that really strucked me the most was their t-shirt and the lyric, its just sick.
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Thank you so much for wishing my death because of an extremist racist ****tard. One of an extreme minority, at that.
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Sorry, I was just really pissed off when I saw and wrote that.
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You must realise, things like this sicken almost everyone. It's just, that they are protected under the first amendment.
So it's either you hate us for taking away rights or you hate us for not shutting people up.
lol, contradiction
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You must realise, things like this sicken almost everyone. It's just, that they are protected under the first amendment.
So it's either you hate us for taking away rights or you hate us for not shutting people up.
lol, contradiction
So its a hate - hate situation. :P
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You must realise, things like this sicken almost everyone. It's just, that they are protected under the first amendment.
So it's either you hate us for taking away rights or you hate us for not shutting people up.
lol, contradiction
So its a hate - hate situation. :P
I call it a fad/jealousy thing forming meaningless hate. That's just me though. :)
Oh, and this has been posted like, twice already.
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everything in that country simply burn, just that, burn and die in the most painful way possible.
hey there little fire..... good mister fire....... DEAR GOD IT BURNS!!!
seriously, the rest of the world has its racists too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_Morrison
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrewdriver
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I don't know, Neo-Nazis don't really offend me. I mean, hell, the world is full of stupid intolerant people, and if I were to go around hating them all my life would be a very bitter one. Besides, the shirt is funny.
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I can't really be mad at them, I actually pity them, it's obvious they didn't come to these conclusions all by themselves.
If it helps any Sarafan, once these girls are older, they are going to be jeered, cat-called and have stuff thrown at them almost everywhere they go. They've let their parents turn them into Figureheads of something that is instantly recognisable as a 'Target'. Ironically enough, the more America sinks into its blame culture, the worse it's going to be for them.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Blue_%28duo%29
Unlike most people in my country that hate the US for its mere existence, I never really cared about the its situation, if their army is recruiting people like these and criminals, if their politicians are approving more and more laws to end basic rights, if they're making absurd motives to go to war and whatever more that happens that I dont know, history taught me that it will fall just like Rome someday, but its when I see things like these that really turn my opinion and really make me wish that everything in that country simply burn, just that, burn and die in the most painful way possible.
The thing that really strucked me the most was their t-shirt and the lyric, its just sick.
The only people that those extremist screwwads are convincing with their racist bull**** are their own daughters, a crime for which they should have their eyeballs gouged out. Still, it is their right to express their beliefs, even if the beliefs are hateful. They're not going to gain any popularity, but instead disgust the rest of the country, much like other extremist organizations have already.
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I don't know, Neo-Nazis don't really offend me. I mean, hell, the world is full of stupid intolerant people, and if I were to go around hating them all my life would be a very bitter one. Besides, the shirt is funny.
Yeah, the shirt is funny. :p
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this band looks awesome and radical
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this band looks awesome and radical
Who are you and why are you quoting Nuke?
On a more serious note..."I don't like what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."? I'm sure I got the quote wrong...
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It's pretty much right, iirc, it's 'I may not agree with what you....', but the rest is spot on ;)
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this band looks awesome and radical
Who are you and why are you quoting Nuke?
On a more serious note..."I don't like what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."? I'm sure I got the quote wrong...
nuke is dead son
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The last thread we had when someone stumbled across this group was better, IMO. More mudslinging.
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They have recently been criticized for stipulating that goods they donated to Hurricane Katrina victims should go only to white people; "After a day of trying, the supplies ended up with few takers, dumped at a local shop that sells Confederate memorabilia." In the ABC Primetime segment referred to above, their representative can be seen going from house to house looking for someone willing to accept a donation of household supplies on a "whites only" basis without success; a white woman, at first incredulous that there would be such a stipulation, exclaims "Screw y'all!"
This made me roffle.
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On a more serious note..."I don't like what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."?
Would you* though? I mean, it's one thing to quote that, but quite another to, you know, actually defend it.
*Not singling out "you" personally; it's addressed to everyone. :)
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It's odd, because in truth, what you are fighting to death for is the right to disagree with them, not their right to be wrong in your opinion ;)
Edit : And heres the killer... in order to fight to the death for someone to have a different opinion, you have to fight against someone who has a different opinion ;)
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I would not fight to the death for Nazi's rights to express themselves. Maybe for purple people's rights to vote, but not for Nazi's.
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It's odd, because in truth, what you are fighting to death for is the right to disagree with them, not their right to be wrong in your opinion ;)
Edit : And heres the killer... in order to fight to the death for someone to have a different opinion, you have to fight against someone who has a different opinion ;)
That's because the universe is a meaningless joke, the nonexistent punchline to which we eternally await.
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"someone in America suports Nazis therefore I want to kill all the damned Americans cause there all the same!"
ha! oh, the irony.
:lol:
aaaanyway...were do you live again?
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I would not fight to the death for Nazi's rights to express themselves. Maybe for purple people's rights to vote, but not for Nazi's.
Then you don't really support free speech, do you? Just the speech of those you agree with? :p
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I don't know, Neo-Nazis don't really offend me. I mean, hell, the world is full of stupid intolerant people, and if I were to go around hating them all my life would be a very bitter one. Besides, the shirt is funny.
Agreed. I actually wanted (and still want) a shirt where a white svastika is on a black background...
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I think they are doing a favor for us all, in reminding that it is the ordinary people, *we*, who make possible and perform all these acts of ultimate stupidity and ignorance in this world.
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I would not fight to the death for Nazi's rights to express themselves. Maybe for purple people's rights to vote, but not for Nazi's.
Then you don't really support free speech, do you? Just the speech of those you agree with? :p
Nazi speech is banned because it is dangerous.
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I would not fight to the death for Nazi's rights to express themselves. Maybe for purple people's rights to vote, but not for Nazi's.
Then you don't really support free speech, do you? Just the speech of those you agree with? :p
Nazi speech is banned because it is dangerous.
How can speech be dangerous? It's just words, at least if it's not agitation.
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I would not fight to the death for Nazi's rights to express themselves. Maybe for purple people's rights to vote, but not for Nazi's.
Then you don't really support free speech, do you? Just the speech of those you agree with? :p
Nazi speech is banned because it is dangerous.
You're being sarcastic, right?
If you're not, it's almost painfully ironic. Labeling Nazi speech as "dangerous" and needing to be banned is the equivalent of the Chinese government blocking Google searches including words such as freedom, or like the US government scrutinzing those who preach communism or anarchy. If it's a threat to the party in power, the government will condemn it as "dangerous", even if it necessarily isn't.
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Then you don't really support free speech, do you? Just the speech of those you agree with? :p
No, I just don't think their right to free speech it's worth my life :p
And no, it's not just people I disagree with, it's the fact that they think genocide is a good thing that makes me not want to have anything to do with them. Homicide can be excused, genocide cannot.
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But they're not committing genocide, nor expressing any specific plans to carry out acts of violence-- they're just talking.
On a related note, when did it become conventional wisdom that genocide begins and ends with Nazism? Nazis aren't the agents of Satan-- they're just another group of people with absurd ideas. And they certainly didn't invent the concept of targeting groups of people and killing them in large numbers. (I personally agree with Charles Mills' theory on why this idea gets perpetuated, but that's another debate.)
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On a related note, when did it become conventional wisdom that genocide begins and ends with Nazism?
They did handle it best.
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But they're not committing genocide, nor expressing any specific plans to carry out acts of violence-- they're just talking.
On a related note, when did it become conventional wisdom that genocide begins and ends with Nazism? Nazis aren't the agents of Satan-- they're just another group of people with absurd ideas. And they certainly didn't invent the concept of targeting groups of people and killing them in large numbers. (I personally agree with Charles Mills' theory on why this idea gets perpetuated, but that's another debate.)
Did you read the wiki article on them? All I'm saying is that I'm not dieing so that a couple of stupid Nazi's can talk about killing jews.
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Actually, when it comes to Genocide, the Spanish in South America (though that was largely accidental) and the English in Tasmania leap to mind (about 5000 people, but that was more or less all there was), as well as the Nazis
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On a related note, when did it become conventional wisdom that genocide begins and ends with Nazism?
They did handle it best.
No they didn't. Granted, they're the most well-publicised, but what of the Stalinit Purges? Religious genocide in the Balkans and Africas? And of course, let's not forget the hyjinx of that old chestnut, the British Empire. The did invent the concentration camp, after all.
Personally, i've always thought of Eastern Europeans to be the best at genocide. 12-15 million Ukrainians dead in the space of a few years, that ain't half bad.
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I'm going to laugh when these people have no real friends. And when their "band" dies. And when they get turned away from burger king for being racist. And when they become cheap whores. And when they do drugs.
And I'm going to laugh when they realize that they were wrong.
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Yes, they deserve to suffer for the way they were brought up. :rolleyes:
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Well why should they be different from the rest of us in that regard?
*batum-CHING*
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(http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/2971/1jt1.png)
Should I? :nervous: :P
Yes, they deserve to suffer for the way they were brought up. :rolleyes:
I think that their parents should be blamed.
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Yes, they deserve to suffer for the way they were brought up. :rolleyes:
Acutally, yes, I belive that they should.
You've got to remember, these are goddamn kids who were quite obviously indoctrinated by their parents, who are the real people to blame here. Research shows that you can bring up a kid to believe anything, that up is down and cats are dogs, and if you keep them in an environment that reinforces these beliefs, why wouldn't they believe it? It's effectively brainwashing, and yet you seem to enjoy the thought that these two might someday wind up as crack-whores.
When they're adults, let the flames fly. Wishing pain and suffering on a couple of kids makes you no better than what they stand for.
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What? who'd you quote? :nervous:
And just for reference, their about my age, so it's kinda less bad. And I don't really think it would make me as bad as them if I made fun of them for being extremly racist and supporting mass murderers (even if they don't see themselves like that). It'd be like that kid who makes fun of me for being in marching band, because my older 2 siblings were in it, and I was always forced to watched videos of the competitions. Is he really that evil? And I'm not racist, and I definitly do not support the killing lots and lots people.
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And just for reference, their about my age, so it's kinda less bad. And I don't really think it would make me as bad as them if I made fun of them for being extremly racist and supporting mass murderers (even if they don't see themselves like that). It'd be like that kid who makes fun of me for being in marching band, because my older 2 siblings were in it, and I was always forced to watched videos of the competitions. Is he really that evil? And I'm not racist, and I definitly do not support the killing lots and lots people.
"Evil" is an entirely subjective - not to mention wholly ambiguous - term.
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::) okay fine, let's use the term 'hostile'
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If you played D&D you'd know there's all sorts of evil... Evil is a very quantifiable concept...
I just wanna see them on Maury in 10-15 years trying to find out who the daddy of their litters are? :lol:
I'm, 10,000% sure Maury! (these boasting women are 99% wrong) :nod:
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Okay, I simply cant see how this ''just leave them alone/ignore them that they'll screw themselves up in the future'' thing can possibly work, oh, wait, it doesnt work. England and France did that and look what happened to them on WW2.
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I'm a little foggy on the comparison you're drawing. You're saying if we ignore these girls, National Socialism might conquer the United States?
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In case you didn't know, the situation in 1920/30s Germany was kinda special, which is what allowed the nazi party to gain a solid hold on things. In fact, it was the desire for revenge by the winners of WW1 that set the stage for WW2, not some decision to ignore the nazis because they would 'screw themselves up in the future'.
That situation does not exist today, and two nazi kids in a band frankly just do not constitute any kind of threat whatsoever to the world. Maybe to your ears and sanity though, should you be unfortunate enough to actually listen to them.
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Before WW2, England and France pretty much ignored Germany thinking the URSS was the greatest threat for them, it turned out they're were wrong. ''All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’', of course, I'm not saying they'll take over the US but to let things like these just go on their way is dangerous at the very least, eventually it will take root somewhere and might, no, quite likely will became a problem later, IMO.
UK and France thought that Germany and URSS would wipe themselves out fighting each other, thats way they ignored the things Germany was doing.
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... enough of the history for the insane.
Really though, some trash screams supremacy? Tell us something we don't know. I don't see people who have a brain going around saying "Really, racism isn't stupid?"
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So, what you're saying is the rest of the world should intervene and invade the US to get rid of some nazi sympathisers? Because as far as I can tell, that's what you're saying should have been done with Germany before WW2.
It's also a ridiculous idea.
What should have been done back then was help Germany rebuild after the war instead of stripping it of anything of value to pay damages for the war. The rise of the nazi party was directly linked to the economic depression caused by this indifference to the suffering of the German people, and without it they simply could not have gained the foothold they needed. As such, WW2 was really little more than an extension of WW1, as to the Germans, the war never truely ended.
So indifference did play a role, but not the role you seem to think. Today, the conditions simply do not exist anywhere in the western world that would allow something similar to happen. It could, however, happen in many 3rd world countries, and in many cases already has in one form or another - Not nazism specifically, but the fundamentalism seen in so many places these days is essentially down to the same causes as WW2, the suffering of a people making them easy targets for radicals and their dangerous ideas.
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Okay, I simply cant see how this ''just leave them alone/ignore them that they'll screw themselves up in the future'' thing can possibly work, oh, wait, it doesnt work. England and France did that and look what happened to them on WW2.
Are you actually conparing two brainwashed girls with the Third-****ing-Reich?! What the hell, man!? :wtf:
Oh noes, we've got to do something about those two girls, lest they rally an army and invade Europe!! *Runs screaming to the hills*
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So, what you're saying is the rest of the world should intervene and invade the US to get rid of some nazi sympathisers? Because as far as I can tell, that's what you're saying should have been done with Germany before WW2.
It's also a ridiculous idea.
So indifference did play a role, but not the role you seem to think. Today, the conditions simply do not exist anywhere in the western world that would allow something similar to happen.
No, the conditions always exist, take a look at the US government. Are they totally impervious to these fundamentalists and extremists? And in this case indifference may very well play a role too if something like that just go on its way.
I'm not saying that someone should invade the US and purge everything, I'm using WW2 as a example, you see a really hard core extremist group taking power on a country right next to you, what do you do? For the UK/France, they sought to use them to get rid of someone else. And they didnt do anything to bar this group from becoming a real threat for them, like limiting its military, in this case they got what they deserve.
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EDIT:Oh... nevermind.
This is where I point out that Neo Nazi's have root all over Europe too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Nazi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Nazi#Neo-Nazism_in_the_USA)
Does that mean that we should limit Germanies military? I don't think so...
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The US is nowhere near having the conditions needed to foster that kind of extremism on a large scale. And as much as I dislike the current US administration, the damage they can do is limited. Do you really think the general populace would support dissolving congress, dropping the clause the prevents a president from serving more two terms, and placing all executive, judicial, legislative and military power in the hands of the president? There'd be a revolution before something like that would happen, just look at how unpopular Bush has become from the (relatively mild in comparison) things he's done in his latest term.
Now, as for the whole doing nothing thing in regards to the German military, then yes, they could have done something there. But it would not have prevented war, it would simply have delayed it. Unless they did it again, and again, and again. They only way they could've prevented the war was to prevent the conditions that fostered the resentment of them across Germany. Another thing to consider is that the treaty of versaille already placed some pretty serious limits on the German military. Hitler was simply able to secretly get around many of those limits. I doubt the French and english were really aware of the full scale of German military buildup until it was too late to intervene without getting into a lenghty war.
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No they didn't. Granted, they're the most well-publicised, but what of the Stalinit Purges? Religious genocide in the Balkans and Africas? And of course, let's not forget the hyjinx of that old chestnut, the British Empire. The did invent the concentration camp, after all.
The Nazis managed to accomplish their work with less time and resources then all but a select few; they also did it completely on their own, without something so capricious as endemic famine or other natural causes, which no one else did.
EDIT: for spelling. Need sleep.
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Ah, I didn't think about resources used in conducting the act. Okay, the Nazis were the most efficient, but I maintain that the Soviets were still the best in recent history.
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EDIT:Oh... nevermind.
This is where I point out that Neo Nazi's have root all over Europe too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Nazi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Nazi#Neo-Nazism_in_the_USA)
Does that mean that we should limit Germanies military? I don't think so...
Ok, nothing bad will ever happen, I'll drop this. Interesting read though.
Ah, I didn't think about resources used in conducting the act. Okay, the Nazis were the most efficient, but I maintain that the Soviets were still the best in recent history.
This on the other hand, no. The german military was by far the best one, it took the direct intervetion of Hitler on the chain of command and the obviuos error of a war on two fronts to lead to a defeat. The red army only fought as a real force much later, after who know's how purges Stalin did, did you know that over 100 thousand, soviets fought with the nazis till the end of the war?
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Ah, I didn't think about resources used in conducting the act. Okay, the Nazis were the most efficient, but I maintain that the Soviets were still the best in recent history.
This on the other hand, no. The german military was by far the best one, it took the direct intervetion of Hitler on the chain of command and the obviuos error of a war on two fronts to lead to a defeat. The red army only fought as a real force much later, after who know's how purges Stalin did, did you know that over 100 thousand, soviets fought with the nazis till the end of the war?
Wait, what the hell are you on about?
I was having a light conversation about which group/organisation/nation is/was the best and/or most efficient at conducting genocide. Stop trying to segue the thread into WWII, dang it!
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Anyone who thinks there is a place in the world for genocidal Nazis needs their head examined.
Would you* though? I mean, it's one thing to quote that, but quite another to, you know, actually defend it.
No, I would not. I would take up arms against them, as a matter of fact. In a heartbeat.
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller
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The problem is that Freedom of Speech does not take into account that Opinion and Behaviour are closely related. If someone wants to have a Nazi 'opinion' of the world, it's not, strictly speaking, an evil thing, very closed minded, ignorant, selfish and stupid perhaps, but not inherently 'evil'.
However, Opinion controls action, whether you eat an apple or a pear depends on your opinion. Same with Nazi, Socialist, Republican, Liberal or any other opinion, If people want to sit around and think 'Supreme Race' type thoughts, more fool them, but the moment they take any action to confirm to themselves that they are right, they move out of speech and into activism.
That's where 'Free Speech' gets you coming and going ;)
And heres the real killer, if you do pick up a gun and shoot them for being evil, greedy, selfish leeches on society, then aren't you shooting them for the same excuses they used to kill others?
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Nope, this is not something I will debate in the abstract. It's not abstract, its pure hate. Maybe you can sleep at night believing that, I can't nor am I willing to try.
I am intolerant of intolerance, and that is ok with me. There's enough hate in the world without **** like this.
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Just pointing out that by hating them, you're adding to it, that's all ;)
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I'm ok with that.
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Personally I believe in the Freedom of Speech only being allowed where there isn't a negative intent.
Nazi's are negative. They don't get Freedom of Speech. They can however, get a fist full of whoopass and assortments though.
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Personally, I think even paying attention to them is what they want. Political movements only make headway when they have airtime. Hating them is a dream come true, so is attacking them, Look how much money the Phelps family has made over the years simply by being hated.
They are not worthy of my hate, they disgust me, yes, but they are small, insignificant, impotent and loud. The trick is, no matter what they spew, treat it with the utmost contempt it deserves, and focus on things that are, in some way, involving the use of our higher cognitive functions.
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Personally I believe in the Freedom of Speech only being allowed where there isn't a negative intent.
Nazi's are negative. They don't get Freedom of Speech. They can however, get a fist full of whoopass and assortments though.
Your message has negative intent
this should be banned and you should be punished
So who gets to define the rules and how are they interpreted? It's easier and safer for everyone to have ridiculously broad concept than to narrow it down and define all kinds of misconduct.
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And what happens when an artist or writer makes a statement that should or could be interpreted ironically, and people inevitably fail to understand that? Then you get people not only being punished for opinions, but for opinions that may not even be theirs.