Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: RazorsKiss on September 16, 2006, 08:37:15 pm
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I've read and reread FAQ's, tutorials, and the like, and I still seem to be getting stuck.
I'm trying to convert the models from Tachyon: The Fringe (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,42168.0.html) into FS2-usable models - like everyone else, of course :D
First step: Converted .pak files into .obj files. Done.
Second Step: Converted .obj files into .cob files. Done.
Third: Convert .cob files... Not so much.
Now, first problem is that the conversion between .pak and .obj turns all my textures into bitmaps.
I can see the textures in Deep Exploration, but not in TrueSpace.
Regardless, discounting textures, when I do the "attach a light" thing in Truespace, using TrueView, it still won't convert, and gives me the "stack overflow" error. It will show within ModelView, but with no textures.
Where do I go from here? I know I'm lost in a newbie modder's nightmare - it's the way things always go when you're trying something out, but I'm well and truly stuck as to where to go from here.
What do you need to see in order to tell me where I went wrong?
I have copies of all of the various stages, and I can replicate anything you desire.
I'm just stuck :D
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I know what you mean. Can't help you with the light adding thing, but the textures are simple to fix. Just open POF Editor in MDLView and change the names of the textures to... whatever you want.
Example:
rock.bmp -----> rock.dds (or .tga; if .pcx then don't put the extension in)
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You still won't see them though unless they are .PCX files iirc. It's that stack overflow that's worrying me at the moment...
Can you grab a screen-shot of your Hierarchy in Truspace and post it?
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1.) For fighters TS is only used to orient to the left so they face forward in game, or for adding shields.
2.) you don't need to see the textures, but if you turned them into .bmp's and saved them as a .cob (via deep exploration, I use the previous version the 1.5.5 free 3d exploration to convert diff model files to .cobs, same thing) you can then see the textures in TS when you hit the render button. They do NOT stay visible.
3.) 99% of the time when PCS craps out Modelview will save the day (at least it has for hundreds of conversions I've done)
4.) Stack overflow means PCS can't handle too many polygons in same location, make the model in bigger and bigger sizes til it converts. If that is not an option and modelview can't, then you are screwed. Get someone to rebuild that model optimized, or fix the bad geometry.
5.) Ships need a light if they are all one object or do not have turrets (like fighters mostly), that solves (not grouped) errors... stupid, but that's teh deal with a light to the hull. Any ship put together in sections or that has turrets don't need a light just for the hull, turrets need their own lights for firing points.
6.) once you have the .pof created copy the existing textures into .pcx's. If your pof still doesn't show textures open with model view and make sure you edit out any texture names that end in .bmp (ie hull.bmp changed to hull) long as you have the .pof file and the pcx files in same folder you should see the textures.
I was a modding noob once also (in fact took me almost 5 years to get multi-part turrets down). So keep at it and ask questions when you get stuck and you'll get there someday.
If you really get stuck post the relevant files and have someone look at them to see where your at.
l8tr!
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You still won't see them though unless they are .PCX files iirc. It's that stack overflow that's worrying me at the moment...
Can you grab a screen-shot of your Hierarchy in Truspace and post it?
Put all the texture files as .pcx - as you can see, the textures now render in Truespace.
(http://razorskiss.net/img/demon_ts.gif)
The above is the Demon Pirate model.
Here is is in both .cob and .3ds formats, as well as the original .obj. In the cob folder, you'll find both the bitmaps it converted the .pcx files to, and the original .pcx files.
Demon Pirate Models (http://razorskiss.net/Downloads/tach/demon.rar)
Anything else?
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Ok something is screwy alright... Why if it takes 15 .bmp textures (according to 3dexploration when I opened it) do you end up with like 31 .pcx's????? that's way too many, I think 18 is MAX (not counting ones for -glow or -shine extensions).
I will go ahead and convert this as a generic fighter, post it, and see what happens...
[EDIT] ok, it took me bout 15 mins: 1 try with pcs and 3 tries with Model View but I got it converted. Note I tried no shield with pcs (stack overflow failure), first time crashed MV with shield mesh so I skipped it. 2nd time with MV it converted no shield but was 72 meters long!
Last attempt I reduced it by 1/3 size and it's a nice little fighter but no shield yet. ALso those textures are bland..I hope you get better ones later...
Also I had to center your model in TS (it was off), also I adjusted the center of gravity (point the model turns on) a bit. Hopefully I oriented it correctly, had to tell if I choose the correct side or made it upside down but at least it's pointing right way! :D
I hope now you can work with this... L8tr!
[attachment deleted by admin]
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You sir, are the man.
72 meters, huh?
That's a pretty stinkin big ship.
How big is your average fighter-sized ship, in regular FS2?
If that's how big the fighters are - you don't even want to know how big the space stations are.
If you remember Tachyon - they're absolutely enormous.
Heh. I'll try to do something similar with the other models, and see if I can get the same result.
*crosses fingers*
[edit:] Yes, the textures will likely be updated. My brother volunteered to do it, and he's pretty stinkin good with models and modeling. I don't think he wants to do *all* the modeling for me, however :D [/edit]
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No, from the initial size you had it sized at, it converted over to 72 meters length, I changed it to 10/9/22 to see if it would work. (then again a conversion factor might have been in play but I never look at/change those anyway...)
That's about average, maybe a little on the big side.
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Remember that the shield must be a solid, untextured mesh, I think the original Tachyon shields were quadrant shields, so if you've tried to convert those directly over, they might be in 4 parts ;)
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I could possibly help you out considering I love tachyon :doubt:... I use that 3ds converter and though it has problems here and there I can do quite alot in 3ds. I mean, I can get past all that truespace and conversion stuff and cut right to the pof.
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That would be great, man.
Give me a shout. Most of my contact info is listed on this site.
I'd appreciate it!
I think I have a couple texturers - we could *really* use a proficient modeler to convert these ships to something usable in-game!
I'll convert the current files into .3ds for you, and shoot you a link once I hear from you.
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http://razorskiss.net/Downloads/tach/tachmodels_3ds.rar - .3ds versions of all the Tachyon fighters (save the Leviathan - I'll get it, eventually :D)
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I took another quick look at them, they seem to suffer the same effect that Homeworld 1 models do upon extraction.
Meaning even though the models are lod 0 (best detail) they look horrible cause something messes up the texture mapping (plus a lot of teh models are over teh limit and need baking or changing entirely).
I tried a few experiments and only like 2 of them came out decent. What I did was open all the textures and sharpened them. It helped all of them, but 90% of the tiem just showed how much they need texure help. The models themselves geometry wise seem ok for now.
These certainly have potential, but you need a texturer who knows mapping to get these sorted out at this stage. Don't know how stable the meshes are in game though.
I'll wait and see if Vengence convertes any over before I do anything else. No need for duplication of effort...
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My brother said he would try with the textures.
As far as the models go... I don't know quite how to check and see whether the geometry is right or not.
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Note to self, stop volunteering for stuff when already up to neck in work :doubt:...
The models are very sketchy. Lots of holes and missing faces. Can be fixed quite easily in 3ds but it would take quite a bit of time.
EDIT: Scratch that, it happens on some models. I'm doing the pegasus considering thats my second most favorite looking ship even though its armor is like newsprint :lol:.
EDIT2: Ack, another edit. The texture coordinates are fine.
EDIT3: Gah, I hate pressing that button.
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9866/untitled1copyyh9.jpg)
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I'd certainly like a go at a few of them, but not staying faithful to Tachyon ;7
The easiest way to test if you are unsure is to put it in game and shoot it.. CTD on weapon hit or mesh death is a sure sign...
IF the ship simply vanishes on first hit (no damge or explosion), that's a mass entry problem,e change mass to like 10000+ Once in a blue moon, on conversion, a mass number gets corrupted and changes to like 0.000
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I'd just like to say thank you, all, for the work you've done looking at this stuff, and the fantastic help you offer. In most communities, you'd never get this much help. Ever.
I'll almost certainly be asking more questions, but I'd like to offer a note of appreciation :D
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Can you do me a favor and get pics of the pegasus from all sides because I don't know where to apply all the skins. There is like over 10 skins on the pegasus alone.
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Will do.
Peg Pics (http://razorskiss.net/Downloads/tach/Peg.rar)
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These skins are quite low res too. This is what I have so far.
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/373/pegrt9.jpg)
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Hello everyone,
I am new to this forum, and I am also Razorskiss's brother. I was asked to look at the models for Tachyon (woot), and I have. I see some problems in geometry though. It seems the creators of this game have made "invisible faces" that they used 2-sided mapping in an attemp to fix it (I think I saw that somebody found it on the Pegasus model). Also, I found some problems that I am unsure how to fix:
the UVW coordinates are split up into "regions" or ID maps, and 3ds max doesn't seem to have those coordinates from the .3ds files alone. The only solution that I can find in 3ds max is to remap each ship. Then again I am not very proficient in texturing. lol =P Do you have another program that you use to remap ships? (i.e. descent)
Thats what I have found so far. Also, since you guys want to re-texture, what maximum mipmap size are you wanting to use with the DX8 engine? And once you have the object retextured, how to you export the texture file and coordinates into usable slices for game play?
Please excuse my "noobish" sounding questions. Thanks guys :)
- TheCatalyst
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COMMAND: INCOMING JUMP SIGNATURE! NEW USER CONFIGURATION!
Helm! Ready all beam cannons!
Lock Beam Cannons and fire on my command!
FIRE!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Turey/welcome2hlpbb.gif)
NO, YOU IDIOT! USE THE BIG BEAM CANNON!
FIRE!
:welcome:
Welcome to HLP! Exits are to the right and left. In the event of a landing of any kind, you can and will be used as a flotation device. Flamethrowers are conviniently located under your seats, however, due to the recent funding cuts, a $3.5 million donation is required to obtain a flamethrower with a full load of napalm in it. If you do not wish to make a donation, your flamethrower will remain filled with water. If you don't wish to donate and still want a working weapon, you'd have to try the weapons locker. However, only HLP Admins, a :V: God, or a Hyperintelligent shade of Blue can open the lock, so you'd have to break in. If you find yourself inside a ventilation shaft and you catch a glimpse of a Shivan, you don't need to worry... much. It's just Carl, and you have two choices with how you want to deal with him:
1. The first possible course of action is getting one of the weapons from the afore-mentioned weapons locker, and trying to ward off Carl by threatening him with the weapon. Be advised that many of the weapons in the weapons locker are covered with the blood of people who thought it a good idea to break into the weapons locker and use the procured weapon to ward off Carl. So, please, if you decide you want to choose this course of action, choose one of the already-bloody weapons, so you don't get blood all over one of the clean ones.
2. Your second course of action when you see Carl is to throw your lunch to him and hope he isn't hungry. This is the better option.
As a final note, please remember that any attempt to use the ASCII characters 0046h, 0053h, and 0033h in sequential order will result in you being trampled by Freespace Fanboys. Your trampled remains will be fed to Carl so that the rest of us don't have to carry around so much food for lunch.
anyways......
what maximum mipmap size are you wanting to use with the DX8 engine? And once you have the object retextured, how to you export the texture file and coordinates into usable slices for game play?
1. We don't like DX8. OpenGL is better.
2. Maximum mipmap size is..... 1024x1024, right? or is it 1024x2048? :confused:
3. textures should be converted into 256 indexed color mode and saved as .pcx (photoshop will do this out of the box)
4. coordinates? do you mean the UV mapping? since you have 3ds max, that gets put in an unwrap UV modifier IIRC. The whole model then gets converted using this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,26260.0.html).
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Hello everyone,
I am new to this forum, and I am also Razorskiss's brother. I was asked to look at the models for Tachyon (woot), and I have. I see some problems in geometry though. It seems the creators of this game have made "invisible faces" that they used 2-sided mapping in an attemp to fix it (I think I saw that somebody found it on the Pegasus model). Also, I found some problems that I am unsure how to fix:
the UVW coordinates are split up into "regions" or ID maps, and 3ds max doesn't seem to have those coordinates from the .3ds files alone. The only solution that I can find in 3ds max is to remap each ship. Then again I am not very proficient in texturing. lol =P Do you have another program that you use to remap ships? (i.e. descent)
Thats what I have found so far. Also, since you guys want to re-texture, what maximum mipmap size are you wanting to use with the DX8 engine? And once you have the object retextured, how to you export the texture file and coordinates into usable slices for game play?
Please excuse my "noobish" sounding questions. Thanks guys :)
- TheCatalyst
I didn't even touch most of the UV coordinates. I just applied the skin and it fits perfectly. I use 3ds too so don't think I did something different. Indeed there are invisible faces but 3ds has a simple setting called "2-faced" where the texture is applied to either side.
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1. We don't like DX8. OpenGL is better.
2. Maximum mipmap size is..... 1024x1024, right? or is it 1024x2048?
3. textures should be converted into 256 indexed color mode and saved as .pcx (photoshop will do this out of the box)
4. coordinates? do you mean the UV mapping? since you have 3ds max, that gets put in an unwrap UV modifier IIRC. The whole model then gets converted using this.
Very valuable information Turey! :D I am not sure about maximum mipmap size. I think is very dependant on whether you use OpenGL or DX8 and then also influenced by what specific game engine you are using. :P
So you all want to re-texture these models with a 1024 x 1024 mipmap and export the UVW coordinates using POF? (I think I follow)
I didn't even touch most of the UV coordinates. I just applied the skin and it fits perfectly. I use 3ds too so don't think I did something different. Indeed there are invisible faces but 3ds has a simple setting called "2-faced" where the texture is applied to either side.
Vengence, whenever you use that "2-sided" feature, doesn't it only fix the problem in MAX? What I mean by that is when you use something like POF, will it still remain an invisible face or will it be 2-sided as it was in MAX? I have always been taught that "2-sided" was a quick fix that wont correct geometry, it only hides it for MAX.
Thanks for the warm welcome, and err..... bloody stump from Carl. :D
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Ok then, the geometry fix is quite simple. Copy the faces and flip their normals and then weld them back on.
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you know, I have hundreds of partial conversions that can be described by that "quick fix" no wonder they crash!
smacks self...
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1. We don't like DX8. OpenGL is better.
2. Maximum mipmap size is..... 1024x1024, right? or is it 1024x2048? :confused:
3. textures should be converted into 256 indexed color mode and saved as .pcx (photoshop will do this out of the box)
Aieee! Wait wait wait. Only do this if your original textures from the game are already just 256 colors, or if you guys don't plan to use the Source Code Project (i.e. want it to run on retail FS2). :ick: If, however, you do want all the graphics goodness, textures should be DDS format. (Which, heh, is originally a DX8 format, but works with OpenGL now as well.) Because then you're not limited to 256 colors, plus you get automatic LOD mipmapping.
Here's some more information in the wiki about texturing (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Texturing). Basic summary: the less textures the better. If you can get the entire ship mapped to a single 1024x1024 (or smaller) texture, that's awesome. (Your final texture can be any size width or height, as long as it's a power of 2... so you can do 512x128 or whatever, if necessary. Just keep it 2048 or lower for the sake of people with non-monster graphics cards... 1024 is a good compromise for everyone, I think.) I can't make heads or tails of the actual process of UVmapping, sorry, but ask me in particular if you have questions about converting images to the DDS format.
Anyway, welcome to the boards TheCatalyst, and I wish you two success in your efforts -- I loved Tachyon and look forward to trying these models. I'd also be glad to help with table stats for them (particularly speed, damping, and rotation velocity).
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Yeah, go medium res. Don't be like me and put a 4000X4000 pixel map on a fighter :P. That was a pretty wierd mistake.
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Anyway, welcome to the boards TheCatalyst, and I wish you two success in your efforts -- I loved Tachyon and look forward to trying these models. I'd also be glad to help with table stats for them (particularly speed, damping, and rotation velocity).
Backslash - I'd love to accept! Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I was busily workin on the website, and various other little issues. Please stop by the website - http://fringespace.org - and take a look around. We're not quite to that, as yet, but I hope to be before too long.