Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kazan on December 11, 2001, 04:49:00 pm

Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Kazan on December 11, 2001, 04:49:00 pm
 (http://alliance.sourceforge.net/FinishedArt/TheHunted.jpg)

Yes the minbari texture is being affected by the lighting - as it should be

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The Guy that wrote an operating system to sell
or the Guys that wrote an  operating system to use
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"Why Climb it?" - "Because it's there."

"God is dead." - Nietzsche
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FreeSpace 2: The Babylon Project Effects Nerd and Programmer. (//"http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon")
Alliance Productions (//"http://alliance.sourceforge.net")
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Shrike on December 11, 2001, 04:52:00 pm
Yeah, but the direction we're looking at the Sharlins should be in the shadow of the red star........ I'd think they'd end up some sort of wine color, personally.
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Carl on December 11, 2001, 04:53:00 pm
anti-aliasing is A-1 SUPAR
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Kazan on December 11, 2001, 04:54:00 pm
well.. i notice an error - i need to put a physical object to enhance the lens flare star - it's showing the background through


Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Kazan on December 11, 2001, 04:56:00 pm
 
Quote
Originally posted by Carl:
anti-aliasing is A-1 SUPAR


it's antialiased you blindman
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Shrike on December 11, 2001, 05:00:00 pm
Uhhh...... doesn't really look all that AA'ed.....
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: wEvil on December 11, 2001, 05:13:00 pm
If so then you're using a tiny sampling value.



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have you ANY idea of how much trouble you're in?
assault on a police officer.
Theft of police property.
Illegal possesion of a firearm.
FIVE counts of attempted murder.
That comes to...

twenty-nine dollars and 14 cents.
cash, cheque or credit card?
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: IceFire on December 11, 2001, 05:50:00 pm
Adaptive works for me in Truespace.  Is that what you used?
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: untouchable on December 11, 2001, 05:58:00 pm
TS=  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/squeeze.gif) (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/mad.gif) (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/devil.gif) (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/squeeze.gif)
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: mikhael on December 11, 2001, 07:01:00 pm
Somehow, I get the feeling that I'm one of few people who actually likes Truespace, no? what's the big beef against it? (besides the booleans. there is no excuse for the booleans)



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--Mik
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Kazan on December 11, 2001, 08:14:00 pm
I have TrueSpace 5

once you get to know how to do things it's actually got a few horses under the hood - nothing like lightwave but still
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Alikchi on December 11, 2001, 08:23:00 pm
It's just so hard to use (for a newbie), the demos stink (No save? WTF?) and texturing is a pain. to put it bluntly. I have little experience with it, but what I have has been frustrating.
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Carl on December 11, 2001, 08:34:00 pm
you have to learn how to use it, then it makes sense. it's texturing is one of the best i've seen.

[This message has been edited by Carl (edited 12-11-2001).]
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: LAW ENFORCER on December 11, 2001, 08:40:00 pm
I use MS3D! YAY!

how much does lightwave cost???

*Braces for impact*
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Bobboau on December 11, 2001, 08:42:00 pm
I learned TS in about a month, it has a very intuitive UI with every option available via a nice icon menue system that saves screen space, I tryed to learn 3DS I can barly see anything in the windows(im used to the one big screen), the screen is half covered by buttons and options I can't edit and rotate/zoom at the same time (have to click four buttons to swich in TS its automatic) it took me three hours to find out how to point edit another hour to make changes to geometry on par with TS' draw polygon tool, and even then it's hard to do becase I have to press five buttons between every new point/face/rotate/zoom/anything. I have only used 3DS for one thing of importance when one of my models got a hole in it, one of the two things TS does not handle well, holes (the other being UV editing), it took me a day and a half to kill the basterd hole in that hell hole with all the fliped polys and stuf 3DS made as I (tryed to) fix the hole, then it took me another hour to get it into FS after I swiched it back to TS.

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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Thorn on December 11, 2001, 08:43:00 pm
 
Quote
Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER:
I use MS3D! YAY!

how much does lightwave cost???

*Braces for impact*

bout $2500
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Bobboau on December 11, 2001, 08:45:00 pm
$5000

[LAW ENFORCER is flung aganst wall by the mighty blast of the astronomical price of the 3D editor]

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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: LAW ENFORCER on December 11, 2001, 08:52:00 pm
AHHH! MAN! AHHH that REALLY! hurt...
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Shrike on December 11, 2001, 11:17:00 pm
TS must have a childishly simple ui then.... MAX's is pretty good, IMO.
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Setekh on December 12, 2001, 02:00:00 am
AA'd? What sampling rate have you got it on? There's a lot of non-AA'd artefacts in there - take the spikes on the bottom-left ship, for example.
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Pez on December 12, 2001, 07:37:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau:
I learned TS in about a month, it has a very intuitive UI with every option available via a nice icon menue system that saves screen space, I tryed to learn 3DS I can barly see anything in the windows(im used to the one big screen), the screen is half covered by buttons and options I can't edit and rotate/zoom at the same time (have to click four buttons to swich in TS its automatic) it took me three hours to find out how to point edit another hour to make changes to geometry on par with TS' draw polygon tool, and even then it's hard to do becase I have to press five buttons between every new point/face/rotate/zoom/anything. I have only used 3DS for one thing of importance when one of my models got a hole in it, one of the two things TS does not handle well, holes (the other being UV editing), it took me a day and a half to kill the basterd hole in that hell hole with all the fliped polys and stuf 3DS made as I (tryed to) fix the hole, then it took me another hour to get it into FS after I swiched it back to TS.


It shows that you really haven't put much time into 3DS MAX. First of all you can make your own UI. Personally I like the standard UI. And if you want to save screen space in Max just press ctrl+x and you go into expert mode.

But the thing is, MAX is more of a professional program than TS (that doesn't mean that all who used MAX are pros and those who use TS are losers). I don't like TS UI but I'm sure if I took the time to learn it I would like it.

Finally something about Kazans image. I like it, it reminds me of the Wing Commander movie when they hid behind some asteroids.

Pez

Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Nico on December 12, 2001, 08:03:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau:
I learned TS in about a month, it has a very intuitive UI with every option available via a nice icon menue system that saves screen space, I tryed to learn 3DS I can barly see anything in the windows(im used to the one big screen), the screen is half covered by buttons and options I can't edit and rotate/zoom at the same time (have to click four buttons to swich in TS its automatic) it took me three hours to find out how to point edit another hour to make changes to geometry on par with TS' draw polygon tool, and even then it's hard to do becase I have to press five buttons between every new point/face/rotate/zoom/anything. I have only used 3DS for one thing of importance when one of my models got a hole in it, one of the two things TS does not handle well, holes (the other being UV editing), it took me a day and a half to kill the basterd hole in that hell hole with all the fliped polys and stuf 3DS made as I (tryed to) fix the hole, then it took me another hour to get it into FS after I swiched it back to TS.


haz pez says. Otherwise, about the large viewport, sorry to tell you that, but it's bullsh1t. It's just a question of default setup, in both progs: TS has viweports set as only perspective view, Max has 4 views together. In both progs you can swith to quad viewport, or any other viewport you want.
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: mikhael on December 12, 2001, 09:39:00 am
I have to say a couple of things about TS. I taught myself TS2 in about a month. The interface is very intuitive and the focus of the program is excellent. I like having the one central view (I usually use it for perspective). I like the fact that objects in the workspace are discrete from one another. I also like having my layout tools integrated with my modelling tools.

My big problems with Truespace include those absolutely evil boolean functions, the subviews and the lack of layer support. The subviews are subwindows of the main window and cannot be dragged over to another monitor. This is a significant draw back, since those subwindows really eat up screen real estate. Also, layer support, while not critical given Truespace's handling of objects, would be ever so helpful. I know there are plugins that fake layers by selectively setting the 'invisible' flag on objects, but a true integrated layer system would be better.

On the other hand, it took me four months to learn Lightwave and I had to take a class for that. In the end, however, I find myself vastly preferring Lightwave for one simple reason: focus. Truespace focuses on a mesh. The mesh is all important. TS maintains a concept of an 'inside' and an 'outside' with a mesh and thus holes in the mesh are a problem. Further, poly-by-poly construction of a mesh is nearly impossible. Lightwave doesn't care about the 'solidity' of a mesh. It is polygon based, rather than mesh based. This difference in focus allows the creation   a mesh bit by bit, rather than 'sculpting' as you do in Truespace.

Lightwave has drawbacks though: complete seperation between the modeller and the layout functions; the view system; and non-discrete objects. Shifting between Layout and Modellor just to get a test render is annoying and interrupts the workflow. Having your views as subframes of your work window makes it impossible to use a second monitor. Finally the objects are not discrete. Objects in a single layer are considered one object, thus anything you do (without explicitly selecting polygons/points/volumes) affects everything on the layer or layers that are currently selected.

If I could have Truespace with Lightwave's point/poly editting tools or Lightwave with Truespace's integration and mesh sculpting tools, I would be one seriously happy 3d geek. Oh, and if someone fixed those booleans: bliss!

I don't work with 3dsMax yet. I hear good--and bad--things about it.



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--Mik
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Sandwich on December 12, 2001, 09:40:00 am
People, you're wrong about the AA and Kazan's right - sort of.   (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)

The rendered items are antialiased. But it looks like their edges are not. Why? Well, what (I think...) Kazan did was take the 3d objects from the TS render (which was done without a background image) and paste them onto a Glitterato image.   (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) Plain and simple.

Kazan, get on ICQ and I'll show you how to assign a background image in TS.   (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)

EDIT:  
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
...Further, poly-by-poly construction of a mesh is nearly impossible. Lightwave doesn't care about the 'solidity' of a mesh. It is polygon based, rather than mesh based. This difference in focus allows the creation   a mesh bit by bit, rather than 'sculpting' as you do in Truespace.

Very true. That's what I like about Rhino - it allows me to build models poly-by-poly, and thus keep the polycount extremely low.  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)

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America, stand assured that Israel truly understands what you are going through.

"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar ("http://www.geocities.com/sandvich/index.html"), the CapShip Turret Upgrade, the Complete FS2 Ship List and the System Backgrounds List (all available from the site)


[This message has been edited by sandwich (edited 12-12-2001).]
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Kazan on December 12, 2001, 10:18:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506:
TS has viweports set as only perspective view

TS5 has four viewport mode - want me to prove it when i get home?

[This message has been edited by Kazan (edited 12-12-2001).]
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Kazan on December 12, 2001, 10:21:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich:
Well, what (I think...) Kazan did was take the 3d objects from the TS render (which was done without a background image) and paste them onto a Glitterato image.    (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) Plain and simple.

Kazan, get on ICQ and I'll show you how to assign a background image in TS.    (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)

the background image is in TS - that's how i ALWAYS do it - it was prolly a glitch in Adaptive AA
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: aldo_14 on December 12, 2001, 10:23:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan:
TS5 has four viewport mode - want me to prove it when i get home?

It's in one of the libraries, innnit?

Anyway, i hate TS5 for a variety of niggly reasons, mainly cos I can;t do primaries or engine glowes well in it, and i don't have a clue about animating also.

I've got a copy of Max 3 now, anyway, so I'll have a play around with it  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Sandwich on December 12, 2001, 10:41:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan:
the background image is in TS - that's how i ALWAYS do it - it was prolly a glitch in Adaptive AA

Erk - I guess so. :-/



------------------
America, stand assured that Israel truly understands what you are going through.

"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar ("http://www.geocities.com/sandvich/index.html"), the CapShip Turret Upgrade, the Complete FS2 Ship List and the System Backgrounds List (all available from the site)
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Kazan on December 12, 2001, 11:26:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14:
It's in one of the libraries, innnit?

Anyway, i hate TS5 for a variety of niggly reasons, mainly cos I can;t do primaries or engine glowes well in it, and i don't have a clue about animating also.

um.. no it's build in

inability to use something is not a reason to hate it
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Pez on December 12, 2001, 01:34:00 pm
 
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan:
 TS5 has four viewport mode - want me to prove it when i get home?

[This message has been edited by Kazan (edited 12-12-2001).]

Venom pointed out that it was the default setup.

Pez

Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Nico on December 12, 2001, 02:11:00 pm
 
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan:
 TS5 has four viewport mode - want me to prove it when i get home?

[This message has been edited by Kazan (edited 12-12-2001).]

lol, first time I see someone ansewering to a post w/o even reading in completly. You should lay down cofee dude, makes you nervous.
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Kazan on December 12, 2001, 03:59:00 pm
re-rendered.. some settings in TS were frelled
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: LAW ENFORCER on December 12, 2001, 05:05:00 pm
Now I carn't see anything!?....
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Setekh on December 13, 2001, 02:34:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich:
Erk - I guess so. :-/

 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/redface.gif) Oh well, it was an admirable cause, Sandwich.  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)

The AA is fixed, yep... but now everything is in shadow, like Shrike noted it should be. So the ships are dark.  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Fineus on December 13, 2001, 03:18:00 am
Dark, and partially obscured by the rocks - still looks nice though  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Title: Render Contest Entry: The Hunted
Post by: Bobboau on December 13, 2001, 03:28:00 am
I think you should get rid of the ghost on that lens flair and move the Sharlins to the right more. and give it some (dark) blue backlighting

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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory