Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jetmech Jr. on September 29, 2006, 10:33:10 am
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http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=newsOne&storyID=2006-09-29T081921Z_01_N26355942_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-GUANTANAMO.xml&src=092906_1059_TOPSTORY_torture_worries (http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=newsOne&storyID=2006-09-29T081921Z_01_N26355942_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-GUANTANAMO.xml&src=092906_1059_TOPSTORY_torture_worries)
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-09-29T143355Z_01_L29867715_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-GUANTANAMO-RIGHTS.xml&src=092906_1059_TOPSTORY_torture_worries (http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-09-29T143355Z_01_L29867715_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-GUANTANAMO-RIGHTS.xml&src=092906_1059_TOPSTORY_torture_worries)
This **** needs to stop. Now. The Rage I'm feeling right now makes it difficult to think clearly atm.
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But what could possibly be legally and morally unsound about legalising physically and mentally torturing suspects until they confess?
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What's exactly bothering you about it?
That they're just saying it publically now?
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What's exactly bothering you about it?
That they're just saying it publically now?
i would guess the complete lack of shame.
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What's exactly bothering you about it?
That they're just saying it publically now?
That it's legal now. It means my stupid government can now declare you a suspected Terrorist, and then detain, torture, and execute you after forced confession with no trial. And it's all horribly legal.
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Big deal.
They've been doing it before anyway. Practically nothing changes.
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Mid term elections, please god, mid term elections.
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Just saw this on the news here and finished reading this too, with all due respect, WTF is the US government doing? Are you people crazy? They're right in one thing at least, it'll make all that easy to hate the US government, I know I do now.
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Hmm. A few months earlier than I expected, but it's finally happened.
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/*is not concerned*/
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My only hope is in 2 years all these people will be booted out of office. A man can dream, can't he?
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/*is not concerned*/
Could Care Less
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I bet you could if you tried :D
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somone beter nuke us before we nuke you :D
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Who cares anyway? Geneva convention was a joke that did nothing when it really mattered anyway. I'm sure if torture was needed for vital information, it was used no matter the proper procedure. ****, it probably went on even when it wasn't necessary.
But ooooooooooooooooooooh, now that it's public it's all wrong?
Cry foul when it matters. A good number of years too little too late.
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Who cares anyway? Geneva convention was a joke that did nothing when it really mattered anyway. I'm sure if torture was needed for vital information, it was used no matter the proper procedure. ****, it probably went on even when it wasn't necessary.
But ooooooooooooooooooooh, now that it's public it's all wrong?
Cry foul when it matters. A good number of years too little too late.
Torture does not yield useful information, because people will lie to make the torture stop.
What would you do if someone captured a US soldier and used similar methods on them?
Also, you are quite immoral.
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"What would you do if someone captured a US soldier and used similar methods on them?"
not be suprised, assumeing were talking an enemy in a war.
Also, you are quite pretentious.
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The US has sunk to new lows. So much for having the moral high ground.
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POINT: You can't defeat your enemy by becoming them.
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Who cares anyway? Geneva convention was a joke that did nothing when it really mattered anyway. I'm sure if torture was needed for vital information, it was used no matter the proper procedure. ****, it probably went on even when it wasn't necessary.
But ooooooooooooooooooooh, now that it's public it's all wrong?
Cry foul when it matters. A good number of years too little too late.
Torture does not yield useful information, because people will lie to make the torture stop.
What would you do if someone captured a US soldier and used similar methods on them?
Also, you are quite immoral.
:lol:
POINT: You can't defeat your enemy by becoming them.
That's true.
You can however, by being worse than the enemy.
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Who cares anyway? Geneva convention was a joke that did nothing when it really mattered anyway. I'm sure if torture was needed for vital information, it was used no matter the proper procedure. ****, it probably went on even when it wasn't necessary.
But ooooooooooooooooooooh, now that it's public it's all wrong?
Cry foul when it matters. A good number of years too little too late.
Torture does not yield useful information, because people will lie to make the torture stop.
What would you do if someone captured a US soldier and used similar methods on them?
Also, you are quite immoral.
:lol:
POINT: You can't defeat your enemy by becoming them.
That's true.
You can however, by being worse than the enemy.
hmmmm
who is your enemy again
why are they bad
i think i forgot
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"What would you do if someone captured a US soldier and used similar methods on them?"
not be suprised, assumeing were talking an enemy in a war.
Also, you are quite pretentious.
So it's ok then?
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yup
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I hate this bill, but honestly, I don't care. And you'll have a hard time getting Americans, who have seen their soldiers have their heads cut off on national TV, to agree with you that torturing "those people" i s wrong.
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especaly those of us who think that stuff like that was just fair in a war.
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I hate this bill, but honestly, I don't care. And you'll have a hard time getting Americans, who have seen their soldiers have their heads cut off on national TV, to agree with you that torturing "those people" i s wrong.
First you'd have to find 'those people' rather than torturing some poor sod kidnapped by the Northern Alliance and sold to the US Army for bounty money.....
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The funny thing is that they also just passed a bill expressly prohibiting the military from doing this too.
I suppose the CIA's rep can take a few more body blows...
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POINT: You can't defeat your enemy by becoming them.
Counter-point: you have to fight fire with fire
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POINT: You can't defeat your enemy by becoming them.
Counter-point: you have to fight fire with fire
Have you ever tried to fight a fire by adding more fire? Do you know how utterly ****ing stupid that sounds?
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Yeah, I can see it now. A house burns as the family watches in horror. The firefighter truck pulls up, they quickly bring out the hoses, hook the truck up to the hydrant. Two firefighters take aim at the house...and out shoots a gout of flame 15 feet long.
OH **** SON
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yeah moronic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_burn)
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yeah, it's a completely stupid idea (http://www.economist.com.na/28july/28-07-27.htm).
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I mean... you know what I mean! Argh, I give up. *Sulks*
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I would like to see you use that firefighting technique in urban areas.. Like burning slums down in every five years or so....
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POINT: You can't defeat your enemy by becoming them.
Counter-point: you have to fight fire with fire
Counter-counter point: Not all of the people "over there" have sided against the US, but if the US randomly kidnaps people and tortures them, then they will always side against the US. The only way to beat the enemy is to be nice to the people who are caught in the middle. Germany made the same mistake in WW2 against the Russians, and because of that they lost.
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I would like to see you use that firefighting technique in urban areas.. Like burning slums down in every five years or so....
The worlds's most expensive firebreak was created when the whole street of Van Ness was dynamited to stop the spread of fire resulting from the 1906 San Francisco earthquake.
How's that for you?
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yeah moronic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_burn)
yeah, it's a completely stupid idea (http://www.economist.com.na/28july/28-07-27.htm).
Soooo... we have to murder Americans and blow up New York skyscrapers first so that the terrorists don't have anything to destroy afterwards and just go home?
Good work, guys. That sounds like a great plan: do the terrorists' work for them. Fantastic.
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POINT: You can't defeat your enemy by becoming them.
Counter-point: you have to fight fire with fire
Counter-counter-point; you define your enemies and your reason for fighting them by the tactics they use. By adopting their style of tactic, you no longer have the moral authority to make any claim to be on the side of good.
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What kind of a stupid **** still thinks that anyone in any war is on the side of "good" anyway?
The morals are fed to the stupid people so that they'd be able to justify/ignore the atrocities commited by the side that they serve.
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The morals are fed to the stupid people so that they'd be able to justify/ignore the atrocities commited by the side that they serve.
the sad part is, that's completely true. For every war.
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good and evil are suposed to be totaly relitive, right, so isn't the only thing that realy matters is who wins?
now that said even with this we still have the 'moral high ground' if only because we don't take this stuff to the same degree or for the same motives as the enemy. we through people naked in a cold room with loud music to get information, they behead people because there infedels.
if you want to look at it another way, they kill us on the battle feild, does our killing them on the battle feild make us just as bad as them?
if we were on there moral level we would have literaly nuked the whole middle east.
but hey, why don't we just through around some more metaphores rather than actualy try discussing the situation, it's a lot easier than actualy thinking about it, and a lot more comfortable than questioning if you might be wrong about something unpleasent.
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You wouldn't nuke ****. You need the crudes from there, and I'm not talking just about the oil.
That's your moral level.
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that might be true for Iraq and saudi Arabia, but what do we need from Lybia? afgahnistan? pakistan? I supose Iran has some oil, but not enough to save them from our wrath. the only reason we didn't nuke half the world off the map was becuse we diddn't feel like it.
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pakistan?
They also have nuclear capabilities you know?
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yeah, but not many and no missiles.
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yeah, but not many and no missiles.
They have 65-90 nuclear warheads and have about 200 missiles capable of 2300 Km flight.
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that might be true for Iraq and saudi Arabia, but what do we need from Lybia? afgahnistan? pakistan? I supose Iran has some oil, but not enough to save them from our wrath. the only reason we didn't nuke half the world off the map was becuse we diddn't feel like it.
Control of the muslim region and extinguishing/putting doubt/controlling the whole muslim wheel?
Bear in mind we're not that far from an ideological breakdown where one ideology prevails. There are only two hurdles left to overcome. One is the muslim world which is being worked on right now, and the last remaining one will be China and all the other Asian smallpox countries like Korea up to the border of Japan.
After that, capitalism and religion in money wins, and the Jews have complete victory over the entire world. Endgame. And it'll all be achieved without World War 3 that includes nuclear weapons that make land useless.
It'll take a while to beat China, but I'm confident the Zionists can kick their ass too once they're through with everyone else.
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Thing about fighting fire with fire is that the idea is to use up all possible natural resources for the fire and lay the surrounding area waste so that the fire has nothing to feed on.
That has two interpretations with regards to Terrorism, 1) Destroy the physical resources (Capture co-ordinators and supplies), 2) Destroy the justifications. Both of those would prevent the fire from spreading, however, if you capture the co-ordinators and torture them, you are decreases the first fuel, but increasing the second.
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damn BlackDove. your future sucks.
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Yep.
Mostly because I'm not Jewish.
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yeh, them jews...
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There are only two hurdles left to overcome. One is the muslim world which is being worked on right now, and the last remaining one will be China and all the other Asian smallpox countries like Korea up to the border of Japan
China is becoming quite westernized. The only thing the younger people could hate more than Japan is themselves. I've never seen anything like the kind of self hate that I see here.